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Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions


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#1426
vinifera

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haha epic video !
If you want true Windows user experience
try Longhorn builds: 3718, 4029, 4066


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#1427
JorgeA

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Paul Thurrott reports a continuing "lag" in sales of Windows 8 PCs, relative to Windows 7 last year. But check out the new excuse:

NPD claims a new culprit in this shortfall: Low-cost netbooks did “incalculable” damage to the PC industry and destroyed the high-end mobile market that Windows 8 now targets.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Gimme a break -- netbooks were way overpriced for what they were (and still more expensive than some of those alternative tablets). A likelier explanation is found deeper into the article:

Microsoft should be credited for moving Windows quickly into the world of multi-touch tablets with Windows 8. But because consumers are now trained to expect low-cost devices, they are purchasing low-cost multi-touch tablets that don’t run Windows and low-cost Windows PCs which don’t offer multi-touch capabilities.

In other words, Microsoft is completely missing the mark.

--JorgeA

#1428
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Sorry, Windows Blue won't bring back the Start button ( NeoWin 2012-12-27 )

This should not come as a surprise as Microsoft would have a massive egg on it's face if it did cave to users requests to return the iconic button.


How about that for a crystal clear glimpse into the mSheep mindset. Listening to the customer means egg on the face!

Posted Image


EDIT: updated image URL, and again

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 06 May 2013 - 07:52 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1429
bphlpt

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For those that are absolutely forced into using Win 8, watching this video should be mandatory.

Learn Windows 8 in 3 minutes (OK, it's really 4)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi8NpwiEuzc

If you watch this Win 8 will be much less frustrating. Don't get me wrong, it still sucks, I still hate it, and I disagree with many/most of the design choices, but at least it's now almost marginally usable.

Cheers and Regards

Posted Image


#1430
jaclaz

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@CharlotteTheHarlot
Re: facepalm
You are missing the point completely :w00t:

Spoiler


;)

:lol:

jaclaz

#1431
Kelsenellenelvian

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I have been watching these videos and am COMPLETELY astounded at the extreme learning curve it takes to figure that POS out.

I mean seriously NO video tuts from MS? NO world-wide classes?

I wonder what sh*t is in there people haven't even found yet...

I am not relearning a OS just to have to get a metric crapload of extra files\programs to do the simplest of things. (LIKE PLAY A FRIGGIN DVD!!!!)

#1432
Tripredacus

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I mean seriously NO video tuts from MS? NO world-wide classes?


This was brought up earlier. Even Windows 95 to XP has a "how to use movie" when it booted. Well in that "welcome" screen that would appear you could find out how to use Windows.
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#1433
JorgeA

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I mean seriously NO video tuts from MS? NO world-wide classes?


This was brought up earlier. Even Windows 95 to XP has a "how to use movie" when it booted. Well in that "welcome" screen that would appear you could find out how to use Windows.

At bootup my Vista machines have the Welcome Center, too, where you can watch demos and mouse around to learn about the shiny new OS. :)

--JorgeA

#1434
JorgeA

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Thurrott's "Fixing Windows 8" series is up to Part 5. His approach to Windows 8 does seem to have taken another turn for the better:

The Windows 8 Start screen is fine on tablet devices, but is borderline useless to users of traditional PCs. Fortunately, a few simple fixes will make this crucial user interface better for all users.

With these kinds of suggestions, there’s always some well-intentioned soul who mentions that they like things just the way they are. That’s nice. But as is generally the case with these “Fixing Windows 8” suggestions, what I’m really asking for is choice.

[emphasis added!]

This is very welcome, of course, but Paul doesn't seem to have put 2+2 together yet: if the OS warrants a multipart series on how to fix it, doesn't that tell us that there is something fundamentally wrong with the OS?

Still, Paul makes a lot of cogent observations and the series is well worth reading. Here (http://winsupersite....-metro-pro-apps) is a thought-provoking one:

And while it will likely never be possible (or desirable) to expose as many commands in a Metro app as is possible on desktop application, if only because of the needs of touch-screen hit target sizes, surely some middle ground can be achieved.

But Paul has said (or predicted) that "the Desktop must die." If that is so, and if complex feature sets aren't suitable for Metro apps, then does that mean that we are doomed to a future of limited program functionality? Form should follow function -- but with Metro, function (or the lack thereof) follows form.

Oh, and check out the commenter in Part 5 who's already looking to sell his Surface... ;)

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA, 28 December 2012 - 09:28 AM.


#1435
jaclaz

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But Paul has said (or predicted) that "the Desktop must die." If that is so, and if complex feature sets aren't suitable for Metro apps, then does that mean that we are doomed to a future of limited program functionality? Form should follow function -- but with Metro, function (or the lack thereof) follows form.

Also WHY there are so many keyboard shortcuts (undocumented officially)? :unsure:
NIce list here thanks to wimb:
http://reboot.pro/to...ddisk/?p=164975

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 28 December 2012 - 10:37 AM.


#1436
JorgeA

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It sounds as though Microsoft isn't the only one infected with the compulsion to wreck a well-functoning UI, and that its own fanboys aren't the only ones afflicted by the attitude that there is one single optimal way for everyone:

And what irritates me is how the gnome3 fanboys (and more importantly, developers), seem to never acknowledge that different people have different tastes. The whole "we know best" thing is a disease.

--JorgeA

#1437
jaclaz

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It sounds as though Microsoft isn't the only one infected with the compulsion to wreck a well-functoning UI, and that its own fanboys aren't the only ones afflicted by the attitude that there is one single optimal way for everyone:

Sure :thumbup , JFYI, I personally "abandoned" quite a few distro's the exact moment they became "gnome" only, as I personally prefer (and have always preferred) KDE (though what I actually use is blackbox and/or Enlightenment, even on Windows I use bblean on quite a few machines)

Also, not really "news", in the sense that Linus' perplexities (IMHO well justified) on Gnome date to at lest more than one year ago:
http://www.linuxjour...d-gnome-so-what

jaclaz

#1438
JorgeA

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It sounds as though Microsoft isn't the only one infected with the compulsion to wreck a well-functoning UI, and that its own fanboys aren't the only ones afflicted by the attitude that there is one single optimal way for everyone:

Sure :thumbup , JFYI, I personally "abandoned" quite a few distro's the exact moment they became "gnome" only, as I personally prefer (and have always preferred) KDE (though what I actually use is blackbox and/or Enlightenment, even on Windows I use bblean on quite a few machines)

Also, not really "news", in the sense that Linus' perplexities (IMHO well justified) on Gnome date to at lest more than one year ago:
http://www.linuxjour...d-gnome-so-what

jaclaz

Thanks for the article link, it provided good historical background, although I admit that despite looking into the matter I remain mystified by the conceptual differences (if any?) between a "UI," a "DE," and a "shell."

A couple of days ago I tried Fedora 17 and Linux Mint 13 off the live DVD that came with the "Genius Guide" Linux & Open Source magbook, volume 3. I didn't like either one. I'd have to get back into them to provide details, but as I remember one of them provided a taskbar but no way to put anything on it. :blink: Instead, you had to mouse up to the top left corner and click, or something like that, to bring up large thumbnails of the open windows. :wacko: That may have been Linux Mint 13 -- come to think of it, I believe that it was Fedora 17 that looked so alien that I didn't even bother looking around.

--JorgeA

#1439
JorgeA

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An extended review of the Surface RT. The writer wants to like it, but the device's limitations simply rule that out.

I don’t enjoy being so dismissive of the Surface RT, but I guess I’m still struggling to see the value of a tablet. Yeah, touch is cool; and for doing things like surfing the web, scrolling through photos, and checking your e-mail it makes sense. But for tasks like building spread sheets, editing photos, and writing essays desktops and laptops are superior solutions. In the simplest sense the Surface RT, like all of the tablets that have come before it, is a content consumption device, not a content creation tool. And to that degree Surface RT can’t replace a traditional PC, only augment it.

--JorgeA

#1440
CharlotteTheHarlot

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This is very welcome, of course, but Paul doesn't seem to have put 2+2 together yet: if the OS warrants a multipart series on how to fix it, doesn't that tell us that there is something fundamentally wrong with the OS?
--JorgeA

Excellent observation Jorge! I wonder how many people at those Thurrott threads can grasp it. And fanboy-in-chief Thurrott is again barely addressing the problems as usual.


I have been watching these videos and am COMPLETELY astounded at the extreme learning curve it takes to figure that POS out.

I mean seriously NO video tuts from MS? NO world-wide classes?

I know, the barebones tutorial is unbelievable as it is, but we learned it was INTENTIONAL! They dropped the mSheep into this thing like guinea pigs ...

She adds that the lack of tutorials or detailed instructions on how to adjust to Windows 8—something that has attracted complaints—is a deliberate choice. Tests have shown that although people find tutorials “comforting,” they don’t retain much information from them, she says, making them a waste of time.



BTW, pOS is one of my favorite names offered by the community to help Microsoft replace Metro.

EDIT: added something else

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 29 December 2012 - 02:26 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1441
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Bill Gates still won't let his children use Apple products ( NeoWin 2012-12-28 )

All kinds of "Yay Bill" and other rationalizations. No-one evens considers the possibility of someone in the position of billg, with the limitless means of billg, simply getting one of each and every make and model of device and comparing them objectively. I mean, he might notice something and phone up the team and say "How come we can't do this or that like so and so?". Actually, if you know anything about the early years with billg you would already know that he has done exactly that in the past and it is part of his legend as being plugged-in to all levels. This alleged no-Apple rule of his might be simply to avert criticism of stealing ideas and whatnot, but it certainly shows a shift to insular and walled-in thinking at the highest levels.


Windows 8 Complaints app removed from Windows Store ( NeoWin 2012-12-28 )

And even more insular thinking on display, practically a daily occurrence. In fact they are pretty much batting a thousand at ignoring everyone, racing down a dark road like a drunk driver intent on crashing Microsoft of a steep cliff. UPDATE: turns out Microsoft didn't pull this app, it was the author who as it tuns out is a certifiable MicroLackey ( actually I think he just got scared at hatemail from the fanboy brigade that were apoplectic at the concept of a complaints app. Here is his groveling to the fanboys: "I made the app to generate ad impressions, which it did, with a handful of sarcasm and a pinch of bad judgement. But later decided it was more harm than good in its current form. Microsoft is not an evil company like Apple and Google." :lol:


Apple and Google activated 17 million devices on Christmas Day ( TechSpot 2012-12-28 )

Now this is a real problem. They have intentionally tied "Microsoft Windows" ( the company, the brand, the franchise ) to their move into the mobile market against all smart advice, in effect betting the farm on mobile market penetration. The absolute best they could possibly hope for was in the low double-digits of percent share against Android, Apple and a few others even though there are crazy projections showing even higher :lol:

The problem is that the total number of mobile devices is skyrocketing. As that number increases ( and doubles! ), there is a much larger number of Windows devices they need to sell just to keep pace. In other words, a headline like that one just set them way back because they cannot sell enough Surface or Nokia devices to offset this. They are really screwed. The main WP8 phones are now out, the Surface RT is out and treading water, and all they got left is the Surface Pro which will not set the world on fire like some other products have.

Microsoft has destroyed what was left of their reputation just to bank a few percentage marketshare in mobile while turning natural allies and longtime veterans of the platform into mortal enemies. It is a dazzling display of colossal ignorance caused by a massive ego with a side order of tone-deaf arrogance. Originally I thought it would take one year to be able to measure the size of this fail. But I am thinking it will be far less, perhaps just one half. This is probably why there is so much talk about Windows "Blue" next summer, they must be working feverishly to salvage something then because by that time this thing will be seen as the epic fail it is.

Added: I forgot to mention the obvious. That total percentage of mobile market share is important because it will act as a positive or negative feedback, high percentage means they go to developers and say "Write apps for Windows!", but a low percentage will cripple that effort completely. Some of the commenters in those NeoWin threads keep saying there are hundreds of fart apps for Android but only a few dozen for Windows, implying that means Android sucks and Windows is better. No! It means they are writing these ( admittedly stupid ) apps for other platforms! Doh!

Also, where are Microsoft's activation numbers for Christmas day and in total? We know you got them Steve. :yes:

EDIT: updated 2nd story.

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 30 December 2012 - 03:56 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1442
vinifera

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Bill Gates still won't let his children use Apple products

sucks to be them

just imagine to be forced to use Vista and Win 8 (at their time)
not to mention Zuuuune hahah

Edited by vinifera, 29 December 2012 - 09:14 PM.

If you want true Windows user experience
try Longhorn builds: 3718, 4029, 4066

#1443
JorgeA

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Windows 8 Complaints app removed from Windows Store ( NeoWin 2012-12-28 )

I had written something else, but it now appears that this happened because the app developer is a Win8 fanboi enthusiast. Maybe the response was too overwhelmingly negative...

--JorgeA

P.S. Went into my favorite office-supplies retailer this afternoon, the one with the big PC department in the middle of the floor and all those purple Surface screens blinking and giving passersby epileptic fits. While I was there, the only people I saw entering the PC department were on their way to the other side of the store.

Edited by JorgeA, 29 December 2012 - 11:14 PM.


#1444
JorgeA

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Bill Gates still won't let his children use Apple products

sucks to be them

just imagine to be forced to use Vista and Win 8 (at their time)
not to mention Zuuuune hahah

LOL

I'm glad that I never did yield to the temptation to buy a Zune when we were choosing an MP3 player.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA, 29 December 2012 - 11:02 PM.


#1445
CharlotteTheHarlot

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I had written something else, but it now appears that this happened because the app developer is a Win8 fanboi enthusiast. Maybe the response was too overwhelmingly negative...

Yeah I saw that myself. Quite the fanboy isn't he?

I updated that last post with the "news". Personally, I think he was assaulted by the MicroZombies and caved in. :yes:

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1446
CharlotteTheHarlot

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From The Forums: Windows 9 UI as Star Trek's LCARS ( NeoWin 2012-12-29 )

In a forum post called "Windows 9", Neowin member Brian Miller uploaded the image below, with the statement, "The only way I will use Windows again is if Windows Blue looks like this..."


Funny comment, but his picture is an insult to LCARS, especially with those "e" icons. So no. Just no. :no: Let's not associate Metro with Star Trek please!

Even ST:TNG cannot save this Metro nightmare. Microsoft missed its chance to learn from them. It was 1987 and Star Trek TNG was very creative, and Windows was at version 2. Ironically, Microsoft now is in many ways simply recreating Windows from back then. The designers of LCARS set the very definition of originality, many years before anyone used a flat-panel color LCD screen. Let's see a stark comparison ( from earlier ( Post #894 ) comment ) ...

Posted Image Posted Image
Windows 2.0 ( 1987 ) vs. ST:TNG LCARS ( 1987 )
( originals: 1, 2 )


BTW, people have been adapting LCARS to Windows since the Win9x Plus! era. The many home-made LCARS Windows Themes are really good too ( and there are a surprising amount of LCARS GUI applications around too ). Frankly there is no comparison, the user created themes blow away this Metro joke. Not everybody likes it to be sure but one thing is for certain, they were way more consistent throughout the show than Microsoft has been with Windows 8. :lol:

More TNG screen screenshots ...

Spoiler


EDIT: updated image URLS, and again

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 06 May 2013 - 07:47 PM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1447
jaclaz

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Well, just for the record, there is also a (still experimental/alpha or maybe early beta) LCARS Windows Shell here:
http://www.lcarsx32....lcars/index.php
http://www.lcarsx32....rs/download.php
being .NET based is IMHO "pure folly", but it does have a couple nice features :thumbup .

jaclaz

#1448
JorgeA

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Wow, I had no idea that anybody had ported the TNG computer interface over to Windows -- let alone that there were so many of them!

--JorgeA

#1449
CharlotteTheHarlot

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( missed this one earlier ... )

Thurrott: Dell Urged Microsoft to Reconsider Windows RT Branding ( Windows IT Pro 2012-12-17 )

Paul Thurrott's take on the branding fiasco where Microsoft has willfully chosen to deceive consumers by using the "Windows" brand to describe their Windows ReTard version running on mobile devices under an ARM chipset, which because of the different instruction set cannot run the millions of traditional x86 "Windows" software. The term "Windows" has always meant a platform, it is how it began and with the exception of various Microsoft driven planned obsolescence fiascos has always meant that Windows software runs on a computer that itself runs "Windows". It is simple as that. But not anymore.

I asked Microsoft’s Steven Sinofsky, then running the Windows and Windows LIVE division, how Microsoft would avoid confusing customers about the differences between Windows 8 and the ARM-based version of the product, which was then going by the code name Windows On ARM (WOA). He claimed that Microsoft already had a plan to educate users about the differences and that this wouldn’t be a problem.

With the Windows 8 and Windows RT launch behind us, I have yet to see any evidence of such a plan. And the branding confusion is still very much a problem.


What do you mean Paul, he lied to your face? Yep. The problem I have with Thurrott is that after all these years he never takes the next step that a real journalist would take. He has enough clout to phone up Sinofsky who has some spare time on his hands and follow up that quote by asking, 'Did you lie to me back then? If not, where is the consumer education?'. But better yet, ask a pointed no-ducking question like: 'Was this intentional false advertising just to get consumers to mistakenly buy this thing?'. Send the questions to Ballmer and Julie too. A real journalist would do this and then post it in the story open-ended or conclusively with: 'Microsoft refuses to respond' or 'Sinofsky has not returned my message asking for clarification'. This is what is maddening about some of these "journalists" like Thurrott. They never really do their job and nothing ever gets settled.

Despite the confusion, Microsoft’s decision to stick with the Windows branding was, of course, pragmatic. Had the firm used a different brand, Windows RT would most likely have been completely ignored by consumers—the same fate suffered by its superior Zune products. By calling this thing Windows, Microsoft was at least guaranteed an audience. Unfortunately, it’s a pretty confused audience.


That's not how the FTC looks at these things, now is it Paul? And the word you chose is "pragmatic"? Really? How about "deceptive"? With this intentional obfuscation they are skirting the lines of honesty just like late-night TV commercials for male enhancement and magic magnet health bracelets. What does that remind me of? Oh yeah, Snake Oil Salesman, or Used-Car Salesman.

The true reason for tying this "RT" to "Windows" is that Windows is 'too-big-to-fail' in their eyes so it should guarantee success. They know that Windows ReTard Edition and Windows 8 itself would die well-deserved epic deaths as separate products, perhaps more sensibly called "Windows Tiles". To avoid that they tied this abomination around "Windows" neck like an albatross and are willfully betting the company on their little toy project. If the Wall Street analysts and their shareholders had any real clue at the madness and recklessness that the current management and board of MSFT were up to, drastic change would be demanded.

If that semi-informative blog-post quality article ( published on Windows IT Pro no less ) isn't bad enough, well check out some comments by those that guzzle more kool-aid than even Thurrott can drink ...

"I really think this whole confusion issues is blown out of proportion. Sure, MS could have come up with a completely unique name to point out what such devices are meant for, but then they lose the market recognition, which in my opinion, is more important."

"Not everyone pays attention but Microsoft has not kept any secrets here. They have been completely clear about the differences between Windows 8 and Windows RT."

"I say if people are not smart enough or too lazy to try to understand the differences, then you shouldn't be using a computer. We didn't have confused users back in the 80's because the non-savvy users used paper and penile. ;-)"

Nothing about honesty. Nothing about respect for the customer. In fact they show the same contempt for the customer that Redmond does. Softie astroturfing no doubt. Would you buy a used-car from one of these MicroZombies? Of course not. Keep enabling that sake oil. That will really help Microsoft recover from their lost decade. This of course is one of the primary reasons that they changed their EULA which now tries to block any class-action lawsuits.

Spoiler

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1450
Servelius

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My deeper impression of Windowd 8 is it's cool and fast, feels like more resistent to blue screens, and with a few new features to like, yet it's so dorky without real aero and without Flip3d.

Sucks Bill Gates had quit keeping his eye on final concepts in Microsoft.




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