Jump to content

Welcome to MSFN Forum
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. This message will be removed once you have signed in.
Login to Account Create an Account


Photo

Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions


  • Please log in to reply
5882 replies to this topic

#1476
Tripredacus

Tripredacus

    K-Mart-ian Legend

  • Super Moderator
  • 9,750 posts
  • OS:Server 2012
  • Country: Country Flag

Donator

If you need to extend your arm and "write" on a vertical or almost vertical surface, such as one may be used to on a traditional blackboard you will soon get tired (and BTW in case of OCR of the handwriting the result will be most likely much worse, as when you write normally on a piece of paper your wrist/hand lies upon the desk and it is not "suspended in mid-air).

jaclaz


I think most people actually put their arms flat on whatever surface (no pun intended) they are writing on. A touchscreen makes me think this would be quite difficult to do without sending cursors all over the place.
MSFN RULES | GimageX HTA for PE 3-5 | lol probloms
msfn2_zpsc37c7153.jpg


How to remove advertisement from MSFN

#1477
jaclaz

jaclaz

    The Finder

  • Developer
  • 14,211 posts
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag

I think most people actually put their arms flat on whatever surface (no pun intended) they are writing on. A touchscreen makes me think this would be quite difficult to do without sending cursors all over the place.

Yep, but I guess it would be trivial *somehow* to "filter out" any "touch" that is larger than a pen point. :unsure: and in any case, if you try it, writing with your hand "suspended" but with your elbow "pivoting" on the desk surface (still no pun intended) or held against your body is not that bad.

I just measured my actual workplace.
I have a desk with a (telescopic/extending from underneath the desk) keyboard and mouse holder.
Between my belly and the keyboard center there around 30 cm (and I can comfortably type with my elbows resting on the chair arm rests).
There are almost 90 cm between my eyes and the 22" LCD Screen. <- this is NOT negotiable, as that is where my eyes focus correctly
Measuring my arm from the tip of the index finger to my eyes it I get around 70 cm (and I am 1.84 m tall).
This means that there are around 20 cm between the tip of my index finger with fully extended arm and the LCD surface and to touch it I have to lean forward quite a bit.

I presume that a short-sighted monkey or orangutan, thanks to the combined effect of the LCD nearer and longer arms, might find touch screen a comfortable approach.

I do not. :no:

BTW, it is tradition :w00t: that every time the mentioned monkey or orangutan manages to touch the right coloured biggish tile, a banana or some nuts or juice are given to it.

Posted Image

I would become too fat ;).

jaclaz

#1478
Tripredacus

Tripredacus

    K-Mart-ian Legend

  • Super Moderator
  • 9,750 posts
  • OS:Server 2012
  • Country: Country Flag

Donator

Posted Image


I will be nice and not make some joke about Metro beta testers that just popped up in my head. Ooops! :angel
MSFN RULES | GimageX HTA for PE 3-5 | lol probloms
msfn2_zpsc37c7153.jpg

#1479
CharlotteTheHarlot

CharlotteTheHarlot

    MSFN Master

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,054 posts
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag

There are almost 90 cm between my eyes and the 22" LCD Screen. <- this is NOT negotiable, as that is [u]where my eyes focus correctly

Just measured eyeball distance at exactly 33" ( about 84 cm ) for myself from a 24" display at 1920x1080. Arms just barely make it.

Yeah, why shouldn't I just completely re-arrange everything to make Microsoft Tiles usable. :no:

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1480
jaclaz

jaclaz

    The Finder

  • Developer
  • 14,211 posts
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag
The Japanese are ahead of us, obviously, as you can use this to touch your screen but it is also useful as a TV remote:
http://technabob.com...remote-control/

jaclaz

#1481
CharlotteTheHarlot

CharlotteTheHarlot

    MSFN Master

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,054 posts
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag

The Japanese are ahead of us, obviously, as you can use this to touch your screen but it is also useful as a TV remote:
http://technabob.com...remote-control/

jaclaz

http://technabob.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/terebi-no-te-magic-wand-remote-control.jpg

Now that's funny right there ( and strangely appropriate ). But I suspect Julie would frown upon this because it would add another layer of abstraction between the consumer and those colorful Windows 8 bits.

EDIT: wrapped image with spoiler tags because it seemed to add delay to page load. Seeing Facebook in status bar now!?! Trying without it. Yep, seems to have linked baggage. Left as a URL.

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 04 January 2013 - 09:15 PM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1482
JorgeA

JorgeA

    FORMAT B: /V /S

  • MSFN Sponsor
  • 3,086 posts
  • OS:Vista Home Premium x64
  • Country: Country Flag
December reports are in, and Windows 8 share is at 1.72% or 1.80% (take your pick). Complaints from vendors about slow sales are spreading (we saw the remarkable graph a few posts upthread):

It’s entirely possible that Windows 8′s slow adoption is simply the result of increased smartphone and tablet sales — but wasn’t Windows 8 meant to ameliorate that division by being a tablet operating system as well? Curiously, more than two months after Windows 8′s release, we still have absolutely no data on the success (or not) of Surface, or indeed any Windows 8 tablet. Weak Windows 8 PC sales are one thing, but Microsoft simply can’t afford to cede any more of the tablet market to Apple or Google. Following what seems to be a record Christmas for both Android and iOS tablet sales, it does not look good for Windows 8.

[emphasis added]

Initial estimates for those Surface RT sales came in shortly after that article, and buyers aren't exactly stampeding into the stores -- just 500-600K units in the last quarter. Even sales performance hopes for the Surface Pro (qualified by a lot of ifs and coulds) are hardly likely to get Steve Jobs turning in his grave.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA, 05 January 2013 - 12:17 AM.


#1483
CharlotteTheHarlot

CharlotteTheHarlot

    MSFN Master

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,054 posts
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag
I saw this excellent comment at Slashdot, which was a great reply to the nonsense about resistance to the Win3.x to Win9x transition that Windows 8 fanboys have just made up in a vain effort to rationalize the current dictatorial strategy ...

Re:A couple things that kept me from upgrading... (Score:5, Interesting)
by RDW (41497) on Tuesday January 01, @06:06AM (#42440461)


"Lastly, you dont need the start button if you learn how to use whats there.. Thats like complaining when going from Win 3.1 to 95. They got rid of my Program Manager I wish they gave me a way to turn it back on.."

They did, from 95 up until XP SP1 ( http://support.microsoft.com/kb/142255 [microsoft.com] ). Of course back then they actually had people who thought about the impact of new interface design on users:

http://www.sigchi.org/chi96/proceedings/desbrief/Sullivan/kds_txt.htm [sigchi.org]

At one point in the design of Windows 95 they considered having two separate UIs, the windowed interface we know and a separate, simplified interface they thought might be suitable for beginners, and which seems to have featured a set of tiles that launched the various applications. Although the design "tested well, because it successfully constrained user actions to a very small set", it was abandoned because "If just one function a user needed was not supported in the beginner shell, s/he would have to abandon it (at least temporarily)", learning "would not necessarily transfer well to the standard shell", and "users had to learn two ways of interacting with the computer, which was confusing". I wonder if the Windows 8 design team were aware of this document..?



Have a look at that linked Win95-era document from Microsoft ( now hosted on a 3rd party site outside of Microsoft's reach ) and contrast this with the self-serving rationalizations found on the official Destroying Windows Blog featuring Sinofsky and Jensen Harris and citing bogus telemetry results. They cannot flush this stuff down the memory hole any longer. Usability studies used to be done and quite a lot was done prior to the Win95 RTM ( not to mention offering the optional fallback to Win3.x visuals ). Are you listening Sinofsky? Harris? Julie? Fanboy enablers?

( apologies in advance to anyone that already discovered this )

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 05 January 2013 - 08:52 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1484
CharlotteTheHarlot

CharlotteTheHarlot

    MSFN Master

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,054 posts
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag
Polaroid Has a 7-inch Android Tablet Too... For Kids ( Tom's Hardware 2013-01-04 )

Polaroid Introduces A Fun, Interactive, Durable Tablet Designed For Kids ( Polaroid.com )

Spoiler


This is the kind of thing that Microsoft could have done. There are ton of tablets like this already and there will be many more. They used to have tons of software for the education sector, heck they used to have other things like Flight Simulator too. It would have been simple to whip together appropriate products ( without Wi-Fi naturally and without Microsoft Store ) and attacked the low-end of the market. Or could they? Could they possibly price an Operating System low enough to compete at these levels? Probably not, because they decided to chain RT and 8 around "Windows" like an anchor. No, they would have had to create a separate edition of Windows for this, and that would have upset their grandiose plans for the rest of us.

Instead of populating the aisles of Toys'R'Us with MicroToyz ( catchy name huh? ) in time for the Christmas season with a safe, non-controversial product that does not attack and insult their existing customer base, instead we see these things are flying off the shelves, adding numerous new "Android" devices to the mobile market share usage statistics. How can they possibly even hope to have a chance to penetrate this market? What was the plan Steve? Oh yeah, create a monstrosity that attacks and insults their existing customer base. The common wisdom has said they can expect to make some headway into the mobile space, perhaps 10 or 20 %. As these low-end, high-volume devices roll in ( and there is a lot of talk of a tidal wave of low-end phones also ) how is that gonna happen? They might even lose total percentage or simply gain 1 to 5 %. Great job compromising the "Windows" brand guys. Great job.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1485
JorgeA

JorgeA

    FORMAT B: /V /S

  • MSFN Sponsor
  • 3,086 posts
  • OS:Vista Home Premium x64
  • Country: Country Flag

Have a look at that linked Win95-era document from Microsoft ( now hosted on a 3rd party site outside of Microsoft's reach ) and contrast this with the self-serving rationalizations found on the official Destroying Windows Blog featuring Sinofsky and Jensen Harris and citing bogus telemetry results. They cannot flush this stuff down the memory hole any longer. Usability studies used to be done and quite a lot was done prior to the Win95 RTM ( not to mention offering the optional fallback to Win3.x visuals ). Are you listening Sinofsky? Harris? Julie? Fanboy enablers?

That was fascinating reading, thanks very much for linking to it. It shows that Windows designers used to know how to conduct market research: by sitting down with users and interviewing them, :o not by gathering petabytes of meaningless, context-free "telemetry data."

I was especially struck by two items regarding Windows 3.x:

Beginning users and many intermediates relied almost exclusively on visible cues for finding commands. They relied on (and found intuitive) menu bars and tool bars, but did not use pop-up (or "context") menus, even after training.

Which is why Windows 8 with its "Charms" and "hot corners" and "chrome-free interface" is such a ridiculous concept. There is a point to showing menus, folks!

All but the most advanced users did not understand how to manage overlapping windows efficiently. Beginners had the most trouble-when they minimized a window, they considered it "gone" if it was obscured by another window. We heard many stories from educators (and witnessed in the lab) how users caused the computer to run out of RAM by starting multiple copies of a program instead of switching back to the first copy. Intermediate users were more proficient but still had trouble, especially with Multiple-Document-Interface (MDI) applications such as Program Manager and Microsoft Word. Market research data confirmed the problem by revealing that 40% of intermediate Windows users didn't run more than one program at a time because they had some kind of trouble with the process.

Count me as one of those users. Because I always maximized my programs in order to make full use of the real estate on my 15" CRT, I couldn't tell what other programs (if any) were open at the same time. I can't remember the number of times I ended up opening multiple instances of the same program.

Which is why I welcomed the Taskbar when I first came across it in Windows 98: it was an unquestionable improvement in usability. And which shows that us Win8 "haters" are not opposed to change, as such -- we are opposed only to change that makes things worse. "New" might be "better," but new is not necessarily better.

The folks at Microsoft used to understand that distinction:

However, the data we collected with the Windows 95 prototype and with Windows 3.1 showed us that we couldn't continue down the current path. The results with beginning users on basic tasks were unacceptably poor and many intermediate users thought that Windows 95 was just different, not better.

--JorgeA

#1486
Formfiller

Formfiller

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 477 posts
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag
Found something funny:

The bestselling notebook on Amazon Germany.. runs DOS! (FreeDOS)

Top 10 list

Asus F55A-SX091D

It was released on November 6, 2012 - just in time for for the W8 release - that's what I call desperate measures!

Posted Image

Posted Image

Here's the product spec in PDF format. Look out for "Free DOS".

#1487
CharlotteTheHarlot

CharlotteTheHarlot

    MSFN Master

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,054 posts
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag

Found something funny:

The bestselling notebook on Amazon Germany.. runs DOS! (FreeDOS)

It was released on November 6, 2012 - just in time for for the W8 release - that's what I call desperate measures!


:lol: And if that date is correct, it is just over a week after Windows 8 general availability, which could mean they wanted to add products to the roster that would actually sell ( instead of products that sit still, generate extra support calls and create needless controversy ). In other words, they quickly learned something since the launch and adjusted accordingly.

Back then we noted something else ( see Post #1255 ) ...

Windows 8 Users Receiving How-to Emails From Microsoft ( Tom's Hardware 2012-11-07 )

Around this time something obviously became clear to Redmond about their initial expectations ( they were wrong! ) so they jumpstarted those "helpful" emails to salvage something from the looming disaster. That laptop you found is exactly in the same timeframe. I bet there are some more dots to connect, yet to be found.

EDIT: clarity

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 06 January 2013 - 06:51 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1488
CharlotteTheHarlot

CharlotteTheHarlot

    MSFN Master

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,054 posts
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag
Steven Sinofsky has published his 2nd post up on his blog now: "Engineering and social science lead to plans", it is as dull as it sounds. I'll give him some faint praise though for not ripping out any comments yet on either of the two posts ( over a hundred now ) and there are some good ones. Remember that he has entitled his blog: Learning By Shipping.


Funniest One-Liner nominations ...

So this isn’t “Learning by looking at Apples”? (credit)

“Learning by shipping” must be the most expensive way of learning ever. (credit) ... Sinofsky actually replied to this

Hello Steve, Why did you leave Microsoft? (credit)

Is this the d**chebag for the utter failure of windows 8? Why would anyone care about what he has to say (credit)

Steven, I have noticed that you are not a good listener from the way you have managed your Windows 8 blog where you explained upcoming features with technical aspects and usability ideas. I am sure a bunch of us will watch this one from a distance, now ! (credit)

Just a quick recommendation. Choose a “metro style” WordPress theme for your blog. They exist and look great and digitally authentic (credit) ... actually this commenter was serious, he has no idea how funny it sounds.


Best Unanswered Questions ... ( multiple nominations allowed )

Hello Steve, Why did you leave Microsoft? (credit)

Hey SteveSi, is there any truth to this: “My understanding is that they actually promoted the one who designed metro when they fired sinofsky, Julie Larson-green. iirc, sinofsky was actually fighting to prevent metro from being the primary interface and was labeled an old stodge by his peers.” (credit)

There are some very long questions also, but I just put these here for a sampling. Note that already the commenters have exhibited more pointed journalism than the combined efforts of those in the Tech press like Thurrott who as far as I can tell have not even asked him or Microsoft about him getting fired that Monday evening.

EDIT: typos

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 06 January 2013 - 08:13 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1489
CharlotteTheHarlot

CharlotteTheHarlot

    MSFN Master

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,054 posts
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag
Microsoft Loses Mobile Market Share to Google and Apple ( Maximum PC 2012-01-04 )

Only Android and iOS saw market share growth last quarter.

The latest data from the comScore MobileLens service suggests that Microsoft is having a rough time carving smartphone market share in the U.S. away from Google and Apple. It happened just the opposite, actually. Android and iOS were the only two mobile operating systems to see market share growth for the three month period ending in November 2012, while Microsoft's Windows Phone platform declined by 0.6 percent.



This is what I was alluding to above. If "mobile" includes phones and tablets, and they want to penetrate this market, just how much can they expect? 10% or 20% or 5%? With the massive influx of devices they will not only need a major hit, but something with iPad level of success. Actually they would need multiple iPad level success devices to make a dent now.

Fine, they needed to do something. Well Ballmer should have granted a new separate "mobile" division complete independence like IBM did with their new PC Division in 1980. That new division could have made toys for kids and tablets for Metrotards and phones for those that might be interested. It could have been fleet-footed and nimble ( like the IBM Charlie Chaplin operation in Boca ) operating outside the bureaucratic entanglements up in Redmond. What was stupid and completely unnecessary was destroying the mega-important "Windows" division instead. The result which is just becoming clear was completely predictable.

It was stated here in thousands of comments and in every other tech website that exists. Microsoft got so much free and truthful advice for at least one and a half years that they have no excuse for failing except that they have morphed into IBM.

EDIT: it is ironic now to me that if Microsoft had been broken up with the Operating Systems division separated, it would have been not only a good thing for us, but a great thing for them, by protecting them ( "Windows" ) from the rest of the knuckleheads in the company.

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 06 January 2013 - 07:28 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1490
JorgeA

JorgeA

    FORMAT B: /V /S

  • MSFN Sponsor
  • 3,086 posts
  • OS:Vista Home Premium x64
  • Country: Country Flag

Found something funny:

The bestselling notebook on Amazon Germany.. runs DOS! (FreeDOS)

Top 10 list

Asus F55A-SX091D

That is amazing. I feel like placing an order, just to verify that it's really running DOS.

--JorgeA

#1491
MagicAndre1981

MagicAndre1981

    after Windows 7 GA still Vista lover :)

  • Patrons
  • 5,985 posts
  • OS:Vista Ultimate x86
  • Country: Country Flag

Donator

I'm also buying Devices without any Windows, so that I can install a crapfree Windows on it.
Posted Image

#1492
TELVM

TELVM

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 285 posts
  • OS:Windows 7 x64
  • Country: Country Flag

... Have a look at that linked Win95-era document from Microsoft ( now hosted on a 3rd party site outside of Microsoft's reach ) ...


Very interesting reading, thanks.

I remember like it was tomorrow the first time I saw and heard W95's desktop, the feeling was like 'wow, now we're getting serious ...' . With all its bugs and problems W95 was a huge step forward, never to look back.

First time I saw W8 my feelings were like (chuckling) 'WTF is this joke?' ...

#1493
CharlotteTheHarlot

CharlotteTheHarlot

    MSFN Master

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,054 posts
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag

I remember like it was tomorrow the first time I saw and heard W95's desktop, the feeling was like 'wow, now we're getting serious ...' . With all its bugs and problems W95 was a huge step forward, never to look back.

Very true. There has been a transparent attempt by a few of the Windows 8 zealots to revise the history of that period, Win3.x to Win9x.

There may have been a handful of people on Planet Earth that were wedded to the Windows 3.x interface, but even they were accomodated by being able to continue using PROGMAN in Win9x. The stuff about resistance to the Start Menu is just made up.

There was commentary in the print magazines and discussion in NewsGroups but the points being made were the opposite that the zealots would have us believe. The criticism was What took so long? and Is it really Pre-Emptive Multi-tasking?. No-one complained about the collapsible and unobtrusive Start Menu because it was exactly that, collapsible and unobtrusive! You could still easily fill your desktop with icons if you wanted, but you could now easily use arbitrary folders or leave the desktop empty.

The bulk of the negative reactions had to do with PnP ( Plug and Pray ) which was completely FUBAR when add-in cards were barely or non-compliant. The Windows work-arounds using "manual" adjustments in Device Manager were horrible and sometimes caused you to chase your tail around in circles as the BIOS would assign different IRQ's, Memory and I/O and then Windows would change them, back and forth leading to sending add-in cards back to the store for a refund. After a few years of BIOS maturing and new PCI cards and some fixes in Windows things got squared away at last ( well, just in time for the Win9x branch to be killed-off but I digress ).

The point is, aside from hardware issues, the features that were changed from Win3x to Win9x ( pretty much everything really ) all led to an improved experience if you had a personal computer. Memory management, Disk management, FAT LFN, FAT32 later, relatively easy networking, the GUI, graphics resolution and color depth, input devices, printers, modems, multi-tasking, complete DOS access, useful Help and tours, custom Themes, ( there's much more of course ) and the ability to run programs of almost unlimited size all were suddenly available. In comparison, Windows 8 specifically attacks and removes earlier features and it is done malevolently, with ulterior motives behind it. They want to decide your theme, your work habits, push advertising, lock you into a store, and they even want you to re-design your office to have monitors that can lie down so that you may find some use for touch-screens. It is transparently self-serving and is approaching vindictiveness now.

How they can rationalize what they continue to do when they have the unambiguous comparison of wildly successful operating systems like Win95 and WinXP is truly astounding. That does not mean re-create Win95 and WinXP, it means learn from what they did, which was offer huge real gains to the consumer. The whole purpose of Windows 8 and Metro is exactly NOT that, it is NOT offering huge real gains to the consumer, it is designed only to offer huge real gains to Microsoft ( and even these may exist only in their dreams ). It is a cynical product release we are witnessing, and all available evidence suggests they still have not figured this out.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1494
CharlotteTheHarlot

CharlotteTheHarlot

    MSFN Master

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,054 posts
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag
Windows RT has been jailbroken, you can now run un-signed code ( NeoWin 2013-01-06 )

Hack to run traditional desktop apps on Windows RT detailed ( TechSpot 2013-01-07 )

Microsoft: Ingenious Windows RT jailbreak poses no security threat ( NeoWin 2013-01-07 )

I was about to say "Excellent!" but all that came out was "Pffft, Who cares."


Interview: We chat with the creator of the new Windows 8 LCARS app ( NeoWin 2013-01-06 )

More Star Trek TNG theming, but this one is completely unrelated to all previous discussion. This is a Metro app in the store that already uses LCARS. Interesting I guess. The Windows 8 zealots seem ambivalent about it, they're confused I guess as to why someone would alter the absolute perfection that is Metro. Kids, gotta love 'em.

The app has some basic functions like text editing, calculator and WMP. It is a $2.99 app and yet some of the commenters still want a trial version! So much for that rich new developer environment I guess. Screenshot ...

Spoiler


EDIT: wording, more links

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 08 January 2013 - 12:43 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1495
Formfiller

Formfiller

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 477 posts
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag

I remember like it was tomorrow the first time I saw and heard W95's desktop, the feeling was like 'wow, now we're getting serious ...' . With all its bugs and problems W95 was a huge step forward, never to look back.

Very true. There has been a transparent attempt by a few of the Windows 8 zealots to revise the history of that period, Win3.x to Win9x.

There may have been a handful of people on Planet Earth that were wedded to the Windows 3.x interface, but even they were accomodated by being able to continue using PROGMAN in Win9x. The stuff about resistance to the Start Menu is just made up.



Indeed. I've wrote about this on the technet forum:

http://social.techne...0-33a810b76ef8/

Also: Windows 95 made it actually EASIER running the "legacy" applications - bootdisks for DOS applications and games became obsolete because that function was built-in into W95. And Windows 95's ability to run DOS games within Windows were greatly expanded as well. That's the complete opposite with W8, as it forces its restricted craplets on you and makes the desktop a hassle.

Edited by Formfiller, 07 January 2013 - 04:49 AM.


#1496
CharlotteTheHarlot

CharlotteTheHarlot

    MSFN Master

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,054 posts
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag

Indeed. I've wrote about this on the technet forum:

http://social.techne...0-33a810b76ef8/

Excellent. I just read through a bunch of related threads from the one you linked to. Here is one from last summer I missed ...

I hate Windows 8 ( Social.Technet.Microsoft 2012-07-10 )

Quote from a Softie offering an official answer ...

Arthur Xie (MSFT CSG) 29,940 Points

Thanks for those feedbacks. Several users had similar feedbacks which we have received. The start menu and shutdown menu are new design and they may not be modified.


That horse has left the barn, lets see if he can chase it down. :lol: Nice try though.


Also just saw something related to the Windows 8 ergonomics I was lampooning a few posts above. Honestly I had no idea it was in the news, the subject must be simultaneously occurring to lots of people from seeing the commercials and advertisements for all those AIO desktops ...

Why Touch Screens Will Not Take Over ( Scientific American 2013-01-03 )

Gorilla Arm' Will Keep Touch Screens From Taking Over ( Slashdot 2013-01-06 )

Most comments at Slashdot are refreshingly intelligent ( not a given these days ) but there are some definite weird ones at SA from the types of people that carry hammers and everything looks like a nail. For example:

What the desktop needs is to be a screen that is about 4 feet wide by about 3 feet tall, Hi Def, and angled like a drafting table. You could have everything you are working on today open and visible at once and all in easy reach of your fingers. And you could also have room for many small windows running, maybe a slide show of your kids pictures, a video monitor of your home while you're at work and other great apps.


Like I said, re-design the physical office to accommodate Windows 8! That's the ticket. There is a bit of a God complex in a lot of people these days, including Microsoft. They see everything as something that needs to be changed, because they can. Going to have to make a banner like this ...

Spoiler

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 07 January 2013 - 09:17 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1497
CharlotteTheHarlot

CharlotteTheHarlot

    MSFN Master

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,054 posts
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag
Okay all you alcoholics ( be patient, it will all become clear later ). Paul Thurrott has a few new articles up. The one I am commenting on is sandwiched between Explaining Windows 8 PC Sales Over the Holidays and a newer one called This Best Buy Circular Says It All. Both are getting comments and ridicule at other sites because of his various rationalizations of blaming the unfolding Windows 8 debacle on OEM's and hardware and retail stores and especially the consumers who are spoiled by low-cost netbooks and expect cheap devices ( like Apple?!? ). Whatever... So he has this other article, which from the title you can imagine will draw the ire of the MicroZealots ...

Windows 8 Tip: Boot Directly to the Desktop with Skip Metro Suite ( Thurrott 2013-01-05 )

... in which he explains how to bypass Metro using the tool called Skip Metro Suite. After profusely disclaiming any love for this idea, he then takes some time to badmouth Start8 and other tools that restore the Start Menu and especially those that completely replace Metro ( and he doesn't mention Classic Shell but I think he is calling Tihiy's apps "Draconian" ). Basically it is an advertisement for Skip Metro Suite, which is fine, even though you know he just hates to be writing the thing at all.

Then we get to the comments. Oh yes, the comments from certifiable MicroZombies. Emphasis on certifiable. In fact so certifiable, this one only 6 days into the new year just may have already locked up the award for 2013 Best Performance by a Microtard.

Yes, yes, we get that, Paul. But as someone who truly see where the live tiles and Metro style can really go (I think more so than even Microsoft), I am frustrated and, admittedly, angry that so many people seem to be so simple-minded that they can't and/or refuse to embrace this new concept and help push it to it's logical success. Instead, so many seem to just expend ridiculous effort and energy to empower folks to stay stuck in an old world. It's like giving vodka to an alcoholic. We need to stop empowering the dim-witted, in my opinion. Steve Jobs certainly didn't care to cater to them.


:lol: Let's break it down, shall we? ...

"angry that so many people seem to be so simple-minded that they can't and/or refuse to embrace this new concept" ... Ahhh, don't go away angry ( just go away ). Bu let me try to follow. Those using Win7 and WinXP with many multitasking Windows and a variety of program launchers using hardcore tools doing file and server management and systems administration are "simple-minded", so what is his description for those desiring finger pushing colored blocks and full screen toy apps like Cut The Rope and Angry Birds?

"and help push it to it's logical success." ... Yay. We should take one for the team. Its success is logical after all. Not sure what that means, wouldn't a better word be "unlikely" or "questionable".

"expend ridiculous effort and energy to empower folks to stay stuck in an old world." ... Hang in there young man ( or lady ). What goes around comes around. One day someone might say this about you when they try to install an Ubuntu distro on your PC to see if you can just accept some random "change" and drag you from your "old world". In fact, why aren't you using Ubuntu? Afraid of change? Do you criticize it without testing it? <-- Reverse Psychology, but it won't work, to understand hypocrisy you have to be both intelligent and honest at the same time.

"It's like giving vodka to an alcoholic" ... Even from an mSheep, this is a new one. But as colorful as it is ( funny too ) it displays the view that the mSheep and Microsoft themselves really have of their customers. It is contempt.

"stop empowering the dim-witted" ... How? Take away their Windows 7! Make them use Metro! Ban the 3rd party utilities? I don't think he thought this one through at all. Unless he really means that taking away freedom will un-empower them ( us Dimwits ). I guess in a way that makes sense. So he meant to say: "stop empowering the dim-witted by taking away their freedom". Okay, got it. Little fascist.

"Steve Jobs certainly didn't care to cater to them." ... Wait, what? What was all that stuff about iTards and iSheep about again! This is a necessary level of mental gymnastics he is doing here. You see, before he can accept membership in the Metrofied world of mSheep and MicroApple, he must first resuscitate their image that they have ridiculed since the iPod came out. Clever!

Can you believe all that brilliance came from a single-mind? So listen up you all simple-minded dim-witted Alcoholics, wise up. Take one for the team, please? It is only logical. No more vodka for you.

P.S. No matter what side of the debate you are on, can we all agree that the best thing that could happen would be for Microsoft to restore the Start Menu and Aero Glass just so we can watch the global meltdown of these generation Xbox child fanatics! :yes:

EDIT: wording

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 07 January 2013 - 09:55 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1498
Formfiller

Formfiller

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 477 posts
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag

"It's like giving vodka to an alcoholic" ... Even from an mSheep, this is a new one. But as colorful as it is ( funny too ) it displays the view that the mSheep and Microsoft themselves really have of their customers. It is contempt.

"stop empowering the dim-witted" ... How? Take away their Windows 7! Make them use Metro! Ban the 3rd party utilities? I don't think he thought this one through at all. Unless he really means that taking away freedom will un-empower them ( us Dimwits ). I guess in a way that makes sense. So he meant to say: "stop empowering the dim-witted by taking away their freedom". Okay, got it. Little fascist.

"Steve Jobs certainly didn't care to cater to them." ... Wait, what? What was all that stuff about iTards and iSheep about again! This is a necessary level of mental gymnastics he is doing here. You see, before he can accept membership in the Metrofied world of mSheep and MicroApple, he must first resuscitate their image that they have ridiculed since the iPod came out. Clever!

Can you believe all that brilliance came from a single-mind? So listen up you all simple-minded dim-witted Alcoholics, wise up. Take one for the team, please? It is only logical. No more vodka for you.

P.S. No matter what side of the debate you are on, can we all agree that the best thing that could happen would be for Microsoft to restore the Start Menu and Aero Glass just so we can watch the global meltdown of these generation Xbox child fanatics! :yes:

EDIT: wording


I think there is an additional piece to the puzzle: I am pretty sure Thurrott, Ed Bott, Sinofsky, the metrotards etc. have completely bought into the idea that all people do with computers is facebooking, twittering and porning the whole day and nothing else. So the opposition against W8 comes as a complete shock to them. They can't fathom they were wrong and would rather blame the whole world than Windows 8.

All the references to Steve Jobs and Apple are there because they have taken his "Post-PC" talk far more seriously than Jobs himself did (Jobs didn't convert the Mac line into touch abominations after all) - I am pretty sure the mSheep revere Jobs more than the average Apple user does: With Gates gone they had a vacuum to fill and Ballmer isn't exactly in the same league. They just can't admit that the whole Post-PC talk was a marketing stunt and that people do indeed "work" with their computers. That's why they even have to go as far and hate the typical Windows PC user and praise the Angry Birds addicted as "teh future".

Edited by Formfiller, 07 January 2013 - 10:13 AM.


#1499
MagicAndre1981

MagicAndre1981

    after Windows 7 GA still Vista lover :)

  • Patrons
  • 5,985 posts
  • OS:Vista Ultimate x86
  • Country: Country Flag

Donator

I remember like it was tomorrow the first time I saw and heard W95's desktop, the feeling was like 'wow, now we're getting serious ...' .

First time I saw W8 my feelings were like (chuckling) 'WTF is this joke?' ...


:thumbup exactly my thoughts.
Posted Image

#1500
JorgeA

JorgeA

    FORMAT B: /V /S

  • MSFN Sponsor
  • 3,086 posts
  • OS:Vista Home Premium x64
  • Country: Country Flag
Finally, the real reasons for poor Windows 8 sales are starting to appear in analysts' reports:

For one, he says mobile device purchases will continue to take sales away from personal computers. For another, he says the adoption curve for the Microsoft (MSFT) Windows 8 PC operating software will be slow as consumers are uncomfortable and unfamiliar with its touch-screen interface.

[emphasis added]

--JorgeA




2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users



How to remove advertisement from MSFN