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Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions


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#1576
Tripredacus

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They even hide control panel. Do you know how hard it is to find that thing? Bring up explorer from desktop, click on the desktop icon and THEN one will see it! WHAT THE HELL? It is clear that they are doing away with all sorts of customization and control for the end user. They are taking over. Lock, stock and barrel.


Actually, the Control Panel (among other things) is a lot easier to get to with Windows 8. Once you learn about right-click on that lower-left corner to bring up that menu. Incidentally, that is the only way I can get into things on Server 2012 when I RDP into it. Since, for some reason, the Windows key doesn't work through the RDP with Desktop Experience like it does for previous OSes.

Edited by Tripredacus, 22 January 2013 - 09:33 AM.
RDP not VM

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#1577
ciHnoN

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Actually, the Control Panel (among other things) is a lot easier to get to with Windows 8. Once you learn about right-click on that lower-left corner to bring up that menu. Incidentally, that is the only way I can get into things on Server 2012 when I RDP into it. Since, for some reason, the Windows key doesn't work through the VM with Desktop Experience like it does for previous OSes.


It might be easier but not userfriendlier, as you say, it is hidden... and doesn't even show up in Start Screen. Another reason why start screen is useless.


Thank you for the tip by the way! It helps me save clicks! :)))


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#1578
Tripredacus

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I made a mistake in my post. I said VM but meant RDP. :blushing:
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#1579
ciHnoN

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I made a mistake in my post. I said VM but meant RDP. :blushing:

Yeah. Hm... hitting that start screen... ONE PIXEL from RDP is not easy when not in full screen or even when connecting locally to a VM. I really wonder what these moron were thinking when they OK the release of that abomination. I wonder if they ever connected to Win8 from RDP and if they ever thought "hm, that one pixel is pretty hard to hit".


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#1580
Formfiller

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Steve Ballmer gets bashed again:

http://uk.reuters.co...E90L04320130122

http://news.cnet.com...allmer-bashing/

#1581
ciHnoN

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Steve Ballmer gets bashed again:

http://uk.reuters.co...E90L04320130122

http://news.cnet.com...allmer-bashing/

I think the panic has begun, http://blogs.marketw...ple-investment/ ...Microsoft Corp. MSFT may invest around $2 billion as part of a possible buyout of Dell Inc. DELL.

Instead of making a good OS, they make a turd Windows 8 and now they will be making all the OEMs go to war with them too. They are cooked and done, stick a fork in them.


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#1582
ciHnoN

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http://www.neowin.ne...-to-pornography ...stuff like this, removing applications from their stores will be common in the future of Windows 8. Just wait and see. If we let them win, they will dictate what you will be or not able to install on your device!

It's like them dictating what sites you will be browsing.

They have made people used to these in mobile devices, which is really sad. I cannot believe people buy these devices. Then again, if we look at our societies as a whole, we quickly realise that people are at deep sleep. Not only in this subject but all other subjects.

It almost seems like they like being slaves.

The fact that very few propaganda news websites picked up on this lock-in which is there in Windows 8 shows how deep they are in each others' pockets. All in the same team while making a show for the sleeping public.

Very scary stuff.

Edited by ciHnoN, 23 January 2013 - 03:21 AM.

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#1583
Formfiller

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http://www.neowin.ne...-to-pornography ...stuff like this, removing applications from their stores will be common in the future of Windows 8. Just wait and see. If we let them win, they will dictate what you will be or not able to install on your device!



Oh, I love the pseudo-critical tone of that article! The same trolls who wish a walled-garden for Windows act suddenly concerned. Hypocritical bunch!

#1584
ciHnoN

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...Oh, I love the pseudo-critical tone of that article! The same trolls who wish a walled-garden for Windows act suddenly concerned. Hypocritical bunch!

Haha indeed. Although I shouldn't laugh. The same idiots who love the Windows 8 Orwellian "Marketplace". It shows how humanity is in deep deep deep trouble frankly. I think the hope is lost.

I personally got banned from Microsoft Channel9 forums when I criticized the lock-in for Windows 8. I raised concern about how side loading of applications writen in WinRT is not possible (ironically, in Android there is an option) and they actually defeneded this lock-in. A forum where almost all of them are developers defended the lock-in and banned me from it. They must love being slaves.

This is a fitting video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqXiYx4f_Q4

Edited by ciHnoN, 23 January 2013 - 04:04 AM.

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#1585
Formfiller

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Oh, boy, I have to post this:

http://www.neowin.ne...comment-2074367

-----

record profits and revenues, making xbox replace playstation as a household name, bing taking %30 of U.S market, Windows 8 success,

recently his approval rating by his employees has skyrocketed, i wonder why?

So many angry people spreading fud and misinformation.

Microsoft puts Windows 8 out there, the best operating system on the planet that does everything from desktop to mobile,and all the android and apple lovers are so angry that they have been and are using something so inferior and cheap looking,that they start throwing skewed and flawed information to try to tarnish Windows 8's success.

In the end though, Microsoft ALWAYS wins. ALWAYS. Even if they take their sweet time, they ALWAYS win.

They are now entering the hardware market, and thats got every single tech company shivering in their boots.



-----

Can Neowin be officially classified as a cult now? In fact, before W8 I was generally pro Microsoft, but even then I would have prefered the classical anti-Microsoft "freetards" to these cultists.

In the long term, haters are better for a company than fanboys. Haters drive a company and they keep the idiots from screwing up too much. Fanboys do the complete opposite.

#1586
ciHnoN

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...
Can Neowin be officially classified as a cult now? In fact, before W8 I was generally pro Microsoft, but even then I would have prefered the classical anti-Microsoft "freetards" to these cultists.

In the long term, haters are better for a company than fanboys. Haters drive a company and they keep the idiots from screwing up too much. Fanboys do the complete opposite.

Wow, their ignorance has no limit. The fact is, in my humble opinion that Microsoft is digging its own grave by entering the hardware market. One of the reason Microsoft is big is due to their OEM partners. They will now compete with OEMs, same time they are competing with application developers and lock-ins, they p*** off for example Steam (I hate DRM but I love Steam because it never gets in my way).


All this shows desperation in my humble opinion. The ship is sinking. It is sad because I too was a fan of Microsoft before Windows 8. I even could live without start menu... but the lock-in of WinRT? No, that is a pill I won't swallow. That's a step toward making my PC no longer mine.

You know it's ironical that all those neowin zombies, most of them probably installed Start8. hahaha... Windows 8 is so good, you need 3rd party products to actually make it work for you! *lol* I heard some download numbers combined for Start8 and StartIsBack to sum up to maybe 4-6 millions.

These are HUGE numbers! It is not some geek altering a registry anymore. Microsoft should worry because when you release a product and millions and millions buy an application to FIX it, something has gone horribly wrong.

Like selling a car with square wheels, customers need to buy round wheels... yet, the CEO isn't fired, the board of directors don't say anything and zombies scream "YOU ARE TOO STUPID TO ACCEPT CHANGE! JUST LEARN TO DRIVE WITH SQUARE WHEELS!".

Square wheels are so modern!

:lol:


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#1587
Formfiller

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Wow, their ignorance has no limit.


Especially funny is that they label anyone who disagrees as Apple/Android "fanatics". It doesn't cross their mind for a second that lots of complainers are veteran Windows users.

Anyway, good article here:
http://www.extremete...c-sales-figures

The comments are great too, lots of mZombies. Here's my favourite zombie comment:

Abominable Start Screen? Seriously? Is this supposed to be a news article or an op-ed piece? I could just as easily state that anyone who doesn't like and/or understand the new start screen is just mentally deficient. For an article demanding facts from Microsoft it sure is laced with a lot of ill-conceived opinions.

And another gem from the same poster:

CTRL+ALT+DELETE will let you show down with ONE click. For your petty little mind I can see how that would be more complicated than clicking Start, clicking a tiny little arrow and choosing Shut Down from a sub menu. That's 3 clicks to one keystroke. Your desktop sounds like a hot mess of garbage but stick with it, it obviously works for you. I have everything I want to use on One screen that I can access in One click. One click. You can't get any more efficient than that. Again you've made no attempt to make an actual point except that you don't have the mental fortitude to understand something as "advanced" as ONE click. I would suggest you spend a little time actually learning something before you comment on how bad you 'think" (and I use that term loosely with you) it is.

Edited by Formfiller, 23 January 2013 - 05:56 AM.


#1588
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Interesting article about W8's "design":

http://www.fastcodes...sign-strategy#1

Although it's hyping W8, there is a really interesting tidbit about Ballmer's role in this mess:

"Unlike other companies that maybe have one person at the top, we don’t have a [design] czar at Microsoft," says Julie Larson-Green, VP of program management for Windows. Of Metro, she adds, "It’s not like Steve [Ballmer] decreed it." One former longtime Microsoft manager put it bluntly: "I don’t think Steve could even spell the word design." And unlike Steve Jobs, who was infamous for meddling in every detail of Apple’s product launches, Ballmer didn’t go to any of the rehearsals at Milk Studios for the unveiling of the Surface; his part was played by a stand-in till he arrived on the day.

.....

So Microsoft embraced design not because Ballmer suddenly discovered beauty or started futzing around with typefaces, but because Apple showed that good design can be obscenely profitable. "We have recognized the value of [design]," says P.J. Hough, head of Microsoft’s Office division, "and we have decided to make it a much higher priority." A former senior-level Microsoft source who advised Ballmer puts it a touch more tartly: "They’re placing an emphasis on design because the dollars sit there. They’re looking at Apple’s market cap."

Still, the Windows 8 designers can’t quite pinpoint the origins of the company’s new religion, not least because they have worked without attention from top management. According to insiders, Ballmer offered no direction to the Windows 8 team on the features of the new user interface. Windows president Steven Sinofsky kept him abreast of the team’s progress, but Ballmer met with Larson-Green only twice during the development process, and he never got together with the team to green-light the design.



WoW, CEO OF THE CENTURY!!!

Edited by Formfiller, 23 January 2013 - 07:17 AM.


#1589
ciHnoN

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...

Man those two quotes from mZombies are really creepy. It's like kindergarten or retard minded people suddenly found a keyboard.


Also very interesting how all articles concentrate on the design and completely ignore the lock-in which is in place in Windows 8 via WinRT which forces ALL developers to get approved by "Windows Marketplace" and only publish their applications from there.

Imagine that, you can't make a private application for you and your friends. It is not possible. I cannot understand how every major propaganda news ignores this AND that all those readers allow it to go ignored.

A friend of mine installed Windows 8 the other day... 10-20 minutes he was in it and he couldn't take it anymore. He bought Start8 to get rid of the start screen. *lol*

Using Windows 8 is like trying to catch a bouncing plastic ball in your room, really hard and makes you tired.

Haha... I loved this section:

At the end of January, the price of a Windows 8 Pro upgrade shoots up from $40 to $200.


$200 to turn over my PC to Microsoft so they can dictate stuff to me... right.

Some of the arguments are almost near insanity "Windows 8 is great because it boots 5-10 seconds faster." hahahhaha...


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#1590
vinifera

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Microsoft puts Windows 8 out there, the best operating system on the planet that does everything from desktop to mobile


ehehehehhh
what else to do than laugh...

fanboys will stay fanboys till they go blind
If you want true Windows user experience
try Longhorn builds: 3718, 4029, 4066

#1591
Tripredacus

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...stuff like this, removing applications from their stores will be common in the future of Windows 8. Just wait and see. If we let them win, they will dictate what you will be or not able to install on your device!


This means that MS has backed down from their lofty expectations delivered at Build concerning how apps would be handled. There was supposed to be some testing and approval process for apps submitted to the store. The man hours required for such a thing would have been immense. Its not surprising they opted for more of a break/fix approach to handling apps since their original goal (especially if Windows 8 had been a booming success) was probably not something even Microsoft would be able to pull off.
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#1592
xpclient

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Everywhere I go except MSFN (Eightforums, Neowin, Twitter), I see extremely dumb people praising the dumb people at Microsoft for creating Windows 8. Did Apple put some spell on the whole world to go dumb? How did people use Windows all these years from Windows 1.0 to Windows 7? They were finding it difficult to operate all this time?


Edited by xpclient, 23 January 2013 - 10:16 AM.

Impossible to run NT6 without third party fixes.


#1593
jaclaz

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How did people use Windows all these years from Windows 1.0 to Windows 7?

INvolution of the species? :unsure: :ph34r:

How did people used a PC at all before WIndows (and without a GUI/pointing device)? :unsure:

The "smartifying" (or supposedly so) of the OS/UI is an evident trend.

Point is why exactly it should IMPLY the dumbifying of the user powers or downright of the users themselves or FORCE them to do something ONLY in a given fixed way (BTW, in the case of NCI, the most stupid/unconvenient among all possible ones).

For NO apparent reason :angel :
Spoiler


jaclaz

#1594
JorgeA

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Will also try to minimize my exposure and dependency not only to Windows but the OS itself as a whole. Ubuntu Linux is also doing very odd things which I won't bring here because it's off topic.

ciHnoN,

Welcome to the thread! If you have seen my posts, you'll know that I completely agree with what you're saying.

I would definitely like to hear your thoughts on the excerpt I quoted at the top of this post. As the OP :) , I'd say that a brief description of what's going on with Unity would be OK here, if it helps to guide readers on the choice of an alternative OS down the road. People (like myself ;) ) who are considering making a switch because of what Microsoft is doing with to Windows would also find it relevant to know if the Canonical folks are walking down the same route as Microsoft.

So, please do let us know what's going on with Ubuntu!

--JorgeA

#1595
Formfiller

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Everywhere I go except MSFN (Eightforums, Neowin, Twitter), I see extremely dumb people praising the dumb people at Microsoft for creating Windows 8. Did Apple put some spell on the whole world to go dumb? How did people use Windows all these years from Windows 1.0 to Windows 7? They were finding it difficult to operate all this time?


How is Windows 8 easier though? You have to remember a lot of additonal stuff, because many things are hidden and you need to play hide & seek. Even the metrotards advice learning keyboard shortcuts. Serious question: Unless you only use metro craps, how the heck is W8 easier?

Also, what counts is not Neowin. Stats wise, W8 is doing worse than Vista.

Edited by Formfiller, 23 January 2013 - 12:46 PM.


#1596
jaclaz

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How is Windows 8 easier though? You have to remember a lot of additonal stuff, because many things are hidden and you need to play hide & seek. Even the metrotards advice learning keyboard shortcuts. Serious question: Unless you only use metro craps, how the heck is W8 easier?

I guess you are missing a point. :unsure:

IF you have to actually do something (like "work") you need to play hide & seek to find something useful for that.

IF you just want to:
  • know what time is it
  • know how is the weather
  • know how bad the Dow Jones is going (only to look informed when talking with your father of the money HE made through working and currently is losing in the stock exchenge)
  • follow witty twits
  • write witty comments on your friends pages on facebook
  • read the the witty comments your friends wrote on your facebook page
  • watch some lousy low resolution videos on youtube
  • get senseless mails from your friends and reply senseless to them (no less than 10 per hour)
  • look on the internet for some (you choose: porn/music/movies)
  • play online with your friends (or with your foes, it's all the same as long as it is "social" and "fun")
  • call or video call every other friend through Skype or similar

Everything is ready before you, you don't have to learn anything, nor to look for anything more (there is simply no need for it).

About items #1, #2, there are known alternatives, see:
http://www.msfn.org/...30#entry1018330

jaclaz

#1597
Formfiller

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IF you just want to:

  • know what time is it
  • know how is the weather
  • know how bad the Dow Jones is going (only to look informed when talking with your father of the money HE made through working and currently is losing in the stock exchenge)
  • follow witty twits
  • write witty comments on your friends pages on facebook
  • read the the witty comments your friends wrote on your facebook page
  • watch some lousy low resolution videos on youtube
  • get senseless mails from your friends and reply senseless to them (no less than 10 per hour)
  • look on the internet for some (you choose: porn/music/movies)
  • play online with your friends (or with your foes, it's all the same as long as it is "social" and "fun")
  • call or video call every other friend through Skype or similar



Knowing time got actually more complicated.

About your other stuff.. wouldn't bookmarks in a browser (or pinning/linking them on the taskbar/desktop) do exactly that? And far easier? It's easier to switch between sites in the desktop browser than in the metro browser. Browsing is a lot more complicated in metro in my opinion. Not to mention the Flash/Silverlight issues there.

Anyway, Microsoft not only p***es off Windows users, but Office users as well! (No.1 cash cow)

Just look at the dissatisfaction, that the new Office UI generates:

Office hate 1

Office hate 2

These design hipsters that Ballmer let run wild without supervision are going to kill the company completely. But I must admit, if MS crashes and burns I wouldn't be a too sad now. And I liked them before W8.

I HAVE NEVER SEEN A COMPANY ON SUCH A SUICIDE COURSE.

Some posts from the Office front:


---




As recent user of MS Officer 2013 I was amazed at how poor the UI color scheme was. When I first installed the 2013 suite I thought something had been corrupted or perhaps I was running in safe mode. I attempted to use the various applications but found Outlook to be totally unusable for any period of time.

We develop software products ourselves and the Office 2013 GUI would never have made it through Alpha, it is totally unfit for purpose.


Hey developers, my eyes can't take it any-more. Just installed MS office 2013 and after reading some word documents,
my eyes are burning like hell. (and yes my i had set my monitor brightness to loo)
This interface has "too" high contrast colours, is there anyway to change the colour scheme? or any dark interface like Photoshop cs6..?



Please...PLEASE...someone tell me there is a way to change the Office 2013 RTM themes beyond just a grey-scale look. All I can see is "White", "Light Grey", and "Dark Grey"...which is equivalent to "Stormtrooper White", Stormtrooper Light Grey", and "Stormtrooper Dark Grey". Did the Adams Family design the Office 2013...because everything looks like a flat-styled death theme compared to Office 2010. I'm quite literally getting eye-strain from it. I can see a headache coming on if I try to use this all day.


Is there some option I'm missing, some third-party add-on, a registry tweak...or ANYTHING that will add a blue, tan, or any other splash of real color to Office 2013? Also, is there some way to add some depth to the slider bars? Everything looks so flat....and dead. I'm working with these tools all day long...and it's like I'm living in a Twilight Zone episode. I feel depressed after using Office 2013.



I have to agree. Been programming and selling computer systems since 1978. I remember my first shipment of IBM PCs. I was selling CP/M machines before then. In any case I also thought, "This is Multimate!" or Volkswriter. This is a throwback to green/amber/paper white monitors. This is horrible. I never thought a visual interface could ruin a product, but this does. It is just unusable. We will be uninstalling it on our test machines and recommending our company does not use it for the time being. Windows 8 is bad enough, but this is too much to take.



Why is the text on the right click menu GREY? I can hardly see it. It should be BLACK. Also I associate grey with being an option that is unavailable so it's just plain wrong as it stands. The lighter shade of grey is almost invisible.

LCD monitors are notoriously bad at displaying subtle shades of grey to the point where this the latest greatest version of office is pretty much useless. JUST WHY? It's not cool to make software this hard to use on a wide range of TN screen which are common place.

Skins limited to 3 shades of grey with no colour customisation. This can't be right in 2013? There is no such thing as MODERN. Repeat NO SUCH THING AS MODERN. We have been modern since art deco in the 1930's and the person who thinks they are doing something trendy new design is just plain wrong. Excel is about productivity and getting work done efficiently and not some stupid fashion statement. Quit being tards and make some high contrast skin that is easier to use.

1) People don't all share the same perfect eyesight.

2) TN monitors absolutely cannot display subtle differences in pale shades of grey.

Spreadsheets are one of the most dull and boring things ever devised yet you managed to make it even more unappealing. That's just funny and given the options available I think google have a chance to catch 90% of office software users.

Seriously - this the latest office + windows 8 has me looking seriously at alternatives.


Edited by Formfiller, 23 January 2013 - 01:38 PM.


#1598
JorgeA

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How is Windows 8 easier though? You have to remember a lot of additonal stuff, because many things are hidden and you need to play hide & seek. Even the metrotards advice learning keyboard shortcuts. Serious question: Unless you only use metro craps, how the heck is W8 easier?

Great point that hasn't been paid nearly enough attention to. The metrotards will tell you to "just hit CTRL-ALT-DELETE" or the Windows key or some other key combination to do what you could easily do before with a couple of clicks. But this misses the point of the mouse interface: in all versions of Windows prior to Metro, I don't have to remember all sorts of disparate key combinations anymore, I can simply point and click. I don't have to take up brain space trying to remember arcane commands -- I can simply do what I need to do, and go on to the next thing. This immediacy of the command interface (there may be a better term for the idea I'm trying to express) enabled users to do increasingly complex and sophisticated things with their computers, because they could focus on the task itself instead of the command sequence. That was the genius of Windows, which now they are trying so hard to destroy.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA, 23 January 2013 - 05:43 PM.


#1599
JorgeA

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http://www.neowin.ne...-to-pornography ...stuff like this, removing applications from their stores will be common in the future of Windows 8. Just wait and see. If we let them win, they will dictate what you will be or not able to install on your device!



Oh, I love the pseudo-critical tone of that article! The same trolls who wish a walled-garden for Windows act suddenly concerned. Hypocritical bunch!

That's the difference between owning your own home (hard disk) and renting somebody else's (the Cloud) -- in the latter case, somebody else is in control of the resource, and you are not, except in some indirect or minuscule way.

These fans of Win8 and "devices" boasting tiny flash drives are fast marching into eSerfdomTM.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA, 23 January 2013 - 06:07 PM.


#1600
xpclient

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@Formfiller, it's not easier. It's simpler. :w00t: LOL, no it's a trainwreck. And I can assure you Windows 9 is going to be worse.

Impossible to run NT6 without third party fixes.





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