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Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions


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#1751
ciHnoN

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...
one can still dream.

Excellent excellent excellent excellent post! :wub: A small add-on to it would be that the developer community as a whole has a huge responsibility here. They should not develop any "Metro" "Apps" AT ALL. Let it just die. I know I will not develop any "App" ever for it... do you hear me Steve Ballmer? Yes, that's right... I said NEVER EVER. I will create everything on the web now. The day comes where they lock down that too, well I will quit computer business and will not miss it for one second.

The entire reason I joined and kept at the computer business from when I was a kid until now was/is TO DO AS I PLEASE ON THE HARDWARE WHICH IS MINE. If they want to take my freedom away and become another utility company... it's fine... they are within their rights...

but...

My PC was always my home, because I was in peace inside it. It was my castle. I will not join and support them becoming a utility company nor accept this trend. I will find some other place to call home.

If someday it's all gone and everything is locked down, I know I tried. I did not develop any "Metro" "App"... so you, the developer who reads my post in the future. Remember it. Make sure you can look back in 10 years from now and say "You did your part to prevent it" too, because this time around, we cannot only blame Microsoft and OEMs. This time around, the blame will also lay upon us, the developer community. It is our choice to make this monster grow or kill it right now. Without the developer community, this "Metro" monster will die. Die hard and die quick. :hello:

Edited by ciHnoN, 04 February 2013 - 02:57 AM.

He who laughs has not yet heard the bad news.


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#1752
ciHnoN

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This is not ad placement... this is a full advertisement sequence if you ask me!

trlolololololololol... so lame... if I was watching something and such "ad" showed up in middle of the show... I would never watch that show again... then again, I don't have a TV. ;)




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#1753
TheBigBang

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Stalking probs throughout a system,like everyday,became nauseous :puke:
As far as I know, RFA (RegistryFirstAid) is a crisp in registry-tweaking, tho.. :sneaky:
Yesteryears, including w7, RFA obeyed any reg. task, without a complain..
When Ive tried the same in a W8, all Metro apps stops working..omg..only sys.restore brings all stuff in a previous state.
Actually, Ive applied RFA's default trigger tweaking, regardless, thats screwed up some Metro related keys in a reg.base.

Despite what I've been told by PC store techs about how the Win8 desktop is "just like 7," and that Metro is simply built "on top of it," obviously it is not. A program (like Registry First Aid) that you used fine in 7, seems to screw up 8.

Hmm, if RFA stops all Metro apps from working... :sneaky: ...then maybe whatever they do could serve as the foundation for a Metro killer. B)

The problem that you report, may become the solution for Windows 8!

--JorgeA

Im fed up of trying to catch up with a w8 clues..Ive had it!

I doubt it, coz..what 4 probs as Ive been mentioned before..?
It was meant 2b a strawberry on a top of a tart,but its not..Metro isnt in a state of the art..obviously.

Solution would b downgrade to w7,till the day w8/SP2 rise up. :thumbup


This is not ad placement... this is a full advertisement sequence if you ask me!

trlolololololololol... so lame... if I was watching something and such "ad" showed up in middle of the show... I would never watch that show again... then again, I don't have a TV. ;)


:D ..the easiest way culprit 2b found.
Its a troll, how classic&pathetic!

Edited by TheBigBang, 04 February 2013 - 04:19 AM.

Cheers!

#1754
Formfiller

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Formfiller ... forgot to mention this earlier, but NeoWin loves to change URLs on the images a few days after publishing a story. Note the blank box. They may even be blocking outside links to the photos and possibly preventing sites like this one access. Whatever, it's their loss.


Ah, didn't know that. Thanks!

#1755
jaclaz

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Summing it up:
http://www.windowsit...-8-myths-145173

jaclaz

#1756
ciHnoN

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Another Bagdad Bob is at it again... *lol*

http://www.neowin.ne...s-a-solid-start

"Microsoft's Windows business lead on Windows 8 sales: "It's a solid start"" - Microsoft's recently named chief financial officer of its Windows Division.

lolololololloolol




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#1757
ciHnoN

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It seems that it's not only Microsoft's customers who are suffering... http://macperformanc...eRot-intro.html I know a bit OT but read his points, very relevant and some sound very similar to what MS is doing with Win8.
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#1758
vinifera

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http://www.neowin.net/news/microsofts-windows-business-lead-on-windows-8-sales-its-a-solid-start


Microsoft has said it has sold 60 million licenses for Windows 8


too bad (or good), this is "hear-say" as they would say in court...
and to who did they sell so many licenses? - does this number include poor countries like africa where you get legal windoze for 1$ ?
did they sold 50 mil licenses to running bushman and other 10 to "the world" ? :P
If you want true Windows user experience
try Longhorn builds: 3718, 4029, 4066

#1759
JorgeA

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http://www.neowin.ne...s-a-solid-start


Microsoft has said it has sold 60 million licenses for Windows 8


too bad (or good), this is "hear-say" as they would say in court...
and to who did they sell so many licenses? - does this number include poor countries like africa where you get legal windoze for 1$ ?
did they sold 50 mil licenses to running bushman and other 10 to "the world" ? :P

I think some people have made a distinction between Windows 8 licenses that are actually in the hands of end-users, vs. licenses that manufacturers obtained for installation on PCs to be sold. Microsoft has been unclear on this point when talking about the 60 million, so the speculation is that most of those are in PCs yet to be built, or built but not yet sold to customers.

That's not very flattering for Microsoft either, of course.

--JorgeA

#1760
JorgeA

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Another Bagdad Bob is at it again... *lol*

http://www.neowin.ne...s-a-solid-start

"Microsoft's Windows business lead on Windows 8 sales: "It's a solid start"" - Microsoft's recently named chief financial officer of its Windows Division.

lolololololloolol

Yeah, that's pretty funny, for the reasons in the post just above this one!

--JorgeA

#1761
JorgeA

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It seems that it's not only Microsoft's customers who are suffering... http://macperformanc...eRot-intro.html I know a bit OT but read his points, very relevant and some sound very similar to what MS is doing with Win8.

Man, so much of that sounds so very familiar:

■OS X is degrading into a base for an entertainment platform. As it stands, the trend is entirely downhill for serious work
■Useful functionality is prohibited in the name of security. No choice— comply or you’re not in the Apple Store and it doesn’t matter if your users demand the features or not.
■Censorship is the wrong term (censorship applying only to the state against its citizens), Apple’s iron hand over what constitutes a “right and proper” application leaves no room for disagreement— Apple is lord and master and final judge on what is “acceptable”, both in design and content.
■The trend to a new breed of “shallow” features: those useful only for beginners and entertainment, coupled with serious bugs or workflow impairments for everyone else. Makeup over pimples.
■The general dumbing-down of features in every Apple OS X program. Arbitrary removal of functionality such as keyboard shortcuts, or simply removal of features entirely.
■The general trend to introducing stupidly inappropriate iOS-isms into OS X (e.g., Mission Control).


Thanks for the post. I'll be going through the rest of the pages for the details.

--JorgeA

#1762
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Microsoft's Windows business lead on Windows 8 sales: "It's a solid start" [Update] ( NeoWin 2013-02-04 )

Oh please, "It's a solid start". What she is really saying is that the long monopolized OEM distribution channel is working exactly as expected. What's the news here really? Wake me up when the OEM manufacturers grow a spine and refuse to be used like a $20 hooker. It really is a shame that this was allowed to continue unabated. Sure they distribute 60 million licenses into the captive OEM and corporate channels. It has been this way since forever. Tami Reller isn't really saying anything here at all. I'm starting to think it should be illegal for any operating system to be pre-installed. As radical as that sounds, and believe me I never thought this way for decades, we are now completely used to this institutionalized corruption of Windows lock-in via the status quo and any thoughts to the contrary are actually considered strange.



Microsoft: People are quickly learning to use Windows 8 ( NeoWin 2013-02-04 )

Another lesson in 'how to mis-interpret telemetry. The real story is the blatant collection of all manner of user data and what they allegedly deduce from it. Ironically Microsoft and their Zealots are on a Jihad attacking Google for exactly the same thing. If it wasn't for all the other problematic Windows 8 issues ( GUI, Start Menu, Aero, etc ), user privacy and spyware telemetry would be right in the forefront. Pretty clever really. Mangle the user interface to keep everyone busy elsewhere while they make further inroads into monitoring the users' every single action.



Microsoft: No new Windows RT devices on sale this spring ( NeoWin 2013-02-04 )

Bad news for Paul 'Windows RT is the Future' Thurrott. But seriously, who would intentionally manufacture and sell these dogs since they clearly represent one thing - Microsoft lock-in.



Microsoft’s PC Partners Continue to Seek Windows Alternatives ( Thurrott 2013-02-04 )

Oh Paul. Really. This one is especially embarrassing ...

With friends like these, it’s no wonder Microsoft started making its own PCs. This week, HP, the world’s largest maker of computers, launched a portable computer running Google’s lackluster Chrome OS. And it’s not alone: Lenovo, the second-largest maker of the PCs in the world, also announced a Chromebook recently, joining Acer and Samsung. Why are Microsoft’s biggest partners actively working against the company?

Although it’s understandable that PC makers don’t want all their eggs in one basket, the Microsoft partnership has resulted in the dominant PC platform, one that still garners over 90 percent market share after a full 20 years at the top. But PC makers have routinely tried to undercut Microsoft and Windows, from the days of IBM’s OS/2 and Lotus SmartSuite to the Linux-based netbooks of several years ago.


Say what? He is practically accusing the hardware OEMs of being disloyal. Loyal to whom? He clearly expects loyalty to Microsoft and not the customers. Anyway, the way I remember things is that the hardware OEMs were usually taking $50 to $100 profit on all the computers they sold over the past three decades, whether they were a $2,000 sale or $1,000 or $500. In other words, after assembling the entire computer and assuming all the risks and dealing with warranties and returns and all the bad karma, they squeezed out a tiny profit roughly equal to Microsoft's cut from the operating system. What an incredible scam Gates enjoyed there. The worst part is that Windows problems almost always got directed right back at the computer manufacturer and not Redmond itself. It is almost laughable the predicament that these companies find themselves in. I am no fan of Chrome or Android, but even Stevie Wonder should be able to see where this is going. Microsoft is going to get crushed in the long run because the OEMs will ultimately tire of being the whipping boy for Microsoft and their clever offloading of all responsibility for their mistakes and bugs to others.

And talk about Karma. Recall when Microsoft undercut Netscape with a completely free and included MSIE browser in Windows to torpedo their perceived enemy. This in itself was certainly not a criminal act ( I likened it to an auto company including a radio in a new car ) but it did lead to severe government scrutiny. What goes around, comes around I guess. Now here we are, approaching a point with a free desktop/laptop operating system called Chrome, a free mobile operating system called Android, and a free browser ( also ) called Chrome, all from a completely new player using Microsoft's longstanding tactics right back against them. That's what I call Karma.

Please don't get me wrong. I am not on Team Google. Never was. The same as everyone else, over the years I have been re-sorting and re-ordering my personal preference of the three main players: Apple, Google and Microsoft, and it is truly unsettling to me personally that there is no clear moral or ethical winner. If I was forced at gunpoint to decide, the only thing I could say with certainty is that Microsoft would not be my first choice any longer. And this is completely due to their utterly cynical and selfish motives behind Windows 8 and Metro.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1763
vinifera

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Microsoft has been unclear on this point when talking about the 60 million, so the speculation is that most of those are in PCs yet to be built, or built but not yet sold to customers.


or none of that listed
since there is no law-breaking rule for lying, they can make up whatever number just to keep stock positive
if they admit they are in the loss... well we all know what happens then :P
If you want true Windows user experience
try Longhorn builds: 3718, 4029, 4066

#1764
jaclaz

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I will re-write this:
http://www.neowin.ne...o-use-windows-8

Fifty percent of users get through the out of box experience in less than 5 minutes. On the very first day, virtually everyone launches an app from the Start screen, finds the desktop, and finds the charms. Almost half of users go to the Windows Store on that first day. After two weeks, the average person doubles the number of tiles on Start.


In carpenter's/monkeys experiment terms:

Almost half of the subjects managed to open the toolbox in less than five minutes.
On the very first day virtually every subject managed to get hold of the hammer (by the handle), find nails and started planting them randomly on pieces of wood (provided separately form the toolbox).
More than 75% of the subjects hit the nails with the hammer on the head, with 20% hitting the point instead and only around 5% that tried planting them sideways.
The number of smashed fingers was extremely low.
Fifty percent asked (by grunting loudly and dancing frantically) for more nails within first day.
After two weeks the average subject would have doubled the number of pieces of wood nailed together.
None of the subject was able to craft anything classifiable as "artifact":
http://en.wikipedia....ct_(archaeology)
anything produced was describable only as "two or more pieces of wood half-@§§edly nailed together at akward angles".
We find this experiment of utter relevance as it clearly shows how monkeys, after a minimal initial training, are perfectly capable of driving with force a hammer pointing at their fingers and completely miss them :whistle: .


jaclaz

#1765
Formfiller

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Tami Reller is a worthy replacement for Sinofsky in terms of propaganda value. They have really made a great choice here.

By the way, the "60 Million" number is over one month old. have sales stopped by now or what? Where are their new sales numbers?

Edited by Formfiller, 05 February 2013 - 07:01 AM.


#1766
ciHnoN

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It seems that it's not only Microsoft's customers who are suffering... http://macperformanc...eRot-intro.html I know a bit OT but read his points, very relevant and some sound very similar to what MS is doing with Win8.

Man, so much of that sounds so very familiar:

■OS X is degrading into a base for an entertainment platform. As it stands, the trend is entirely downhill for serious work
■Useful functionality is prohibited in the name of security. No choice— comply or you're not in the Apple Store and it doesn't matter if your users demand the features or not.
■Censorship is the wrong term (censorship applying only to the state against its citizens), Apple's iron hand over what constitutes a "right and proper" application leaves no room for disagreement— Apple is lord and master and final judge on what is "acceptable", both in design and content.
■The trend to a new breed of "shallow" features: those useful only for beginners and entertainment, coupled with serious bugs or workflow impairments for everyone else. Makeup over pimples.
■The general dumbing-down of features in every Apple OS X program. Arbitrary removal of functionality such as keyboard shortcuts, or simply removal of features entirely.
■The general trend to introducing stupidly inappropriate iOS-isms into OS X (e.g., Mission Control).


Thanks for the post. I'll be going through the rest of the pages for the details.

--JorgeA


np! ...what's creepy is basically we can remove OS X and put Windows 8 (or any Windows) and almost all points match up perfectly.


Not sure if I should laugh or cry.


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#1767
jaclaz

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OT :ph34r:, but not much ;) an interesting screen capture of Solitaire Games here:

The computer I was using has a native resolution of 1600×900. A screenshot that managed to capture the entirety of Solitaire runs about 5200×900. The only way we could get it to fit in this post was to crop it to 640×3700. And turn it sideways.


http://www.kotaku.co...ood-for-gamers/

And a nice logo :whistle: :
Spoiler


jaclaz

#1768
JorgeA

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since there is no law-breaking rule for lying, they can make up whatever number just to keep stock positive

Well, that's true!

I guess we'll have to wait and see what other information trickles out over time. Even MSFT couldn't keep a disaster secret for long. Easier to explain away, though, would be a mediocre sales performance -- "we're in this for the long haul, people just recently upgraded to Win7," blah blah blah. But even there the truth would ultimately come out.

--JorgeA

#1769
JorgeA

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And a nice logo :whistle: :

Spoiler

LOVED that logo!!!

Anybody feel like printing up a few thousand of those on adhesive backing, then going around to computer stores and sticking them on Surfaces and new PCs? :sneaky:

--JorgeA

#1770
submix8c

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Did anybody notice that Dell is attempting to go "Private"? Do you think that may be significant to Dell's snuggling up to MS?

http://www.reuters.c...E9140NF20130205

Dell did not give specifics on what it would do differently as a private entity to convince skeptics who say it missed the big industry shift to tablet computers, smartphones and high-powered (blah-blah-spelling error)

http://www.dell.com/us/p/d/campaigns/windows-8-consumer

Someday the tyrants will be unthroned... Jason "Jay" Chasteen; RIP, bro!

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#1771
vinifera

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Easier to explain away, though, would be a mediocre sales performance -- "we're in this for the long haul, people just recently upgraded to Win7," blah blah blah.


many people write that MS did "bold move" with win8 and this touch crap
but to me it looks like same scenario with vista, they try to predict what devices will be used and force people on using them

but as it was, vista was mostly skipped, then years later hardware/pc's ment for vista became "normal", but vista blew its chance
at least to my thinking win8 will follow same path

people will mostly stay on win7 and/or xp (at least smart people :D) and wait untill dust called win8 gets blown away by wind :P

the only problem will be how stubborn MS is, will they ever learn like it was with vista-7 scenario, or will they pretend it didn't happen and
go blindly forward with this crap

Edited by vinifera, 05 February 2013 - 04:08 PM.

If you want true Windows user experience
try Longhorn builds: 3718, 4029, 4066

#1772
TheBigBang

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And a nice logo :whistle: :

Spoiler

LOVED that logo!!!

Anybody feel like printing up a few thousand of those on adhesive backing, then going around to computer stores and sticking them on Surfaces and new PCs? :sneaky:

--JorgeA

Sincerely,ive didnt saw so much BSODs..since w3.11 (in regard of w8) :ph34r:

Edited by TheBigBang, 06 February 2013 - 01:57 PM.

Cheers!

#1773
Formfiller

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Surface Pro reviews are in:

http://www.osnews.co..._reviews_are_in

And there we are - the Surface Pro reviews are in. Reading through them all, there's clearly a common theme, and it's not particularly positive. We're a few months in now, so I think we can finally call it: Windows 8 and Surface are the wrong way to go.
The Surface Pro reviews all share a common theme: for a machine that's not supposed to have any compromises, it sure sports a lot of compromises. Battery life is atrocious, the split personality between Metro and the desktop is as jarring as ever, touch on the desktop is cumbersome, the desktop is set to 150% scaling which looks weird, it's heavy, the kickstand only has one position so it's not fun as a laptop, and so on, and so forth.

The end result is that it's not a good laptop, and not a good tablet. In other words, the idea that Surface is a 'no compromises' device is a bunch of nonsense. If you want a laptop, you're better off buying something like a MacBook Air or an Aspire S7, and if you want a tablet you're better off with an iPad or a Nexus.

All this has solidified my belief that Windows 8, as it stands now, was the wrong way to go. Microsoft should have released Windows 8 without Metro, and used Windows Phone 8 for tablets and phones. Windows Phone 8 already has many decent applications, developers are familiar with it, and the interface was already there - and a far less confusing one, too. I see very little in Windows 8's Metro that Windows Phone didn't already have or that could not be added without breaking anything.

On top of that, it would've solved the 7"-problem. You may have noticed there's no 7" Windows 8 tablet, and there's good reason for that: Metro is not suited for it, the desktop is not suited for it. It's pretty clear the major design decisions for Windows 8 were finalised before the popularity of 7" tablets became clear, and so Microsoft has to address it afterwards.

Microsoft could have entered the hardware space with a beautifully simple range of devices - Surface 4, Surface 7, Surface 10 (running Windows Metro, all ARM), and an ultrabook with a Surface-like design (Windows 8 without Metro, x86). Instead, we have lacklustre Surface tablets, a confusing operating system with split-personality disorder, and a development story that's anything but consistent across devices.

With Nokia barely being able to sell any serious amount of Lumias and Surface's lukewarm reception, Microsoft is certainly going through a tough time. I applaud Microsoft for trying to be different and having something resembling a vision, but its execution needs a lot of work.



#1774
JorgeA

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Sincerely,ive didnt saw so much BSODs..since w3.11 (in regard od w8) :ph34r:

Wow.

Stability is paramount for an operating system that's promoted as simple enough for "the masses" to use. If what you're experiencing starts happening to a lot of people, it will be another nail in the coffin for Windows 8.

--JorgeA

#1775
JorgeA

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Surface Pro reviews are in:

http://www.osnews.co..._reviews_are_in

And there we are - the Surface Pro reviews are in. Reading through them all, there's clearly a common theme, and it's not particularly positive. We're a few months in now, so I think we can finally call it: Windows 8 and Surface are the wrong way to go.
The Surface Pro reviews all share a common theme: for a machine that's not supposed to have any compromises, it sure sports a lot of compromises. Battery life is atrocious, the split personality between Metro and the desktop is as jarring as ever, touch on the desktop is cumbersome, the desktop is set to 150% scaling which looks weird, it's heavy, the kickstand only has one position so it's not fun as a laptop, and so on, and so forth.

The end result is that it's not a good laptop, and not a good tablet. In other words, the idea that Surface is a 'no compromises' device is a bunch of nonsense. If you want a laptop, you're better off buying something like a MacBook Air or an Aspire S7, and if you want a tablet you're better off with an iPad or a Nexus.

All this has solidified my belief that Windows 8, as it stands now, was the wrong way to go. Microsoft should have released Windows 8 without Metro, and used Windows Phone 8 for tablets and phones. Windows Phone 8 already has many decent applications, developers are familiar with it, and the interface was already there - and a far less confusing one, too. I see very little in Windows 8's Metro that Windows Phone didn't already have or that could not be added without breaking anything.

On top of that, it would've solved the 7"-problem. You may have noticed there's no 7" Windows 8 tablet, and there's good reason for that: Metro is not suited for it, the desktop is not suited for it. It's pretty clear the major design decisions for Windows 8 were finalised before the popularity of 7" tablets became clear, and so Microsoft has to address it afterwards.

Microsoft could have entered the hardware space with a beautifully simple range of devices - Surface 4, Surface 7, Surface 10 (running Windows Metro, all ARM), and an ultrabook with a Surface-like design (Windows 8 without Metro, x86). Instead, we have lacklustre Surface tablets, a confusing operating system with split-personality disorder, and a development story that's anything but consistent across devices.

With Nokia barely being able to sell any serious amount of Lumias and Surface's lukewarm reception, Microsoft is certainly going through a tough time. I applaud Microsoft for trying to be different and having something resembling a vision, but its execution needs a lot of work.

And this could be the coup de grace.

Surface and Windows 8 were a solution that no one (except in the executive offices of MSFT) was clamoring for. Like a beer-bellied father sporting a black-leather jacket and mohawk, Microsoft is going to end up looking ridiculous for trying to be a nimble operator in the fickle toy-electronics market. So first they followed into the tablet sector, now it turns out that they picked the wrong-sized tablets and have to go chasing after that.

Microsoft, stick to your proven strengths that have earned you a good living and well-deserved respect. Don't throw it away trying to be hip.

--JorgeA




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