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Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions


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#1976
Formfiller

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Looks like your account has been unbanned in the past weeks/months. There is no "banned" there.

Edited by Formfiller, 20 February 2013 - 09:50 AM.



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#1977
ciHnoN

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Looks like your account has been unbanned in the past weeks/months. There is no "banned" there.


Darn them then! :P haha

Edited by ciHnoN, 20 February 2013 - 09:51 AM.

He who laughs has not yet heard the bad news.

#1978
Formfiller

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Oh, I see that wkempf answered you there.

Beware, he really loves Windows 8:

http://channel9.msdn...fdca15001253815

#1979
JorgeA

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So, just in case there are any real journalists left out there, here are a list of admittedly loaded questions for the next time the Pope grants you an audience ...

Fantastic set of questions there. Now, if only there were a journalist with both the tech knowledge and the guts to ask them...

Of course, NOT being asked tough questions was in all likelihood a condition for Gates granting the interview.

* Over twelve years ago you introduced "Activation" in Microsoft products, which instead of reducing privacy has popularized and reinvigorated it. Meanwhile legitimate owners rarely if ever get actual install media and are usually stuck with recovery partitions that obviously die along with a dead HDD and have no legal way to download replacement ISOs to this very day. Why do you not maintain a server open to all customers that archives setup distributions for all products? Since they are "Activation" based what could possibly be the harm in this? Is it because you have anticipated that some customers will just say "Screw It" and buy another copy instead of finding a setup distribution? Do you consider it ethical to leave paying customers in a lurch when their computer dies or gets stolen?

This is the only one that left me scratching my head. What does it mean to say that "activation has reinvigorated privacy instead of reducing it"? (I do understand the rest of it about not supplying install media or downloadable ISOs.)

--JorgeA

#1980
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Of course, NOT being asked tough questions was in all likelihood a condition for Gates granting the interview.


Tech press is toothless, especially those newer "hipster" outlets like TheVerge, I doubt they had such questions even in mind. Someone like John Dvorak looks really good today compared to them.

And the techpress-departments of big mainstream outlets like CBS etc. are even below their gossip journalists.

Edited by Formfiller, 20 February 2013 - 10:21 AM.


#1981
ciHnoN

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The beautiful double starter.

http://www.foolsdesi...ic.php?f=1&t=12

If you have a Remote Desktop window opened up, try hitting the start screen in it.

Posted Image

Edited by ciHnoN, 20 February 2013 - 10:22 AM.

He who laughs has not yet heard the bad news.

#1982
Formfiller

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You will get banned for this. Try to add more text into your posts. Just posting a link with a picture is hated there.

#1983
JorgeA

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Here's the relevent quote from EvilD: (I don't agree with him of course, but I think it illustrates the current thinking at MS)

[...]

And what percentage of people condemning Windows8 have actually used it on real hardware?

[...]

Oh, that's it <slapping head>. I must have tried out the Win8 DP, CP, and RP on imaginary hardware. Silly me!!

[...]
Exactly. It's almost a competitive sport online to see who can hate at Microsoft the most. And people wonder why Microsoft doesn't listen.

If you refuse to give Microsoft credit for the stuff they do right, they'll not pay attention to you when you complain when stuff is wrong. That's human nature. If you complain constantly, people tune you out.

If Microsoft were to put out something that we liked, we WOULD give them credit for it. And we DO give credit where credit is due: while not perfect, the UI's from 98 to 7 were logically structured, eminently functional, and (after some tweaking in XP's case) visually appealing. Office 2000 and 2003 were highly useful and easy to work with. Flight Simulator was an absorbing experience, and a wonderful introduction to the possibilities of the PC platform already in 1982.

Start putting out good stuff again, Microsoft, and you'll start getting praise again. Stop it with the arrogant foisting of unwanted, devolutionary, restrictive garbage like Windows 8, Metro, and Office 2013, and you'll feel the love coming at you once again.

You got the cause and effect backward. If you actually listened to your customers, you wouldn't be getting all this heat.

--JorgeA

#1984
JorgeA

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http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/20/us-dell-earnings-idUSBRE91I17F20130220

Dell's worldwide PC shipments fell nearly 21 percent to 9.48 million in the last three months of 2012 from 11.97 million in the same period a year ago, according to IDC.


Ho hum, maybe it has something to do with WIndows 8? The amazon bestseller listings are pretty obvious. Even refurbished P4s with Windows XP sell better. Man, even DOS devices sell better!

One would think this would tell the CEOs something.. apparently not. But even let's tout strictly the party-line and assume W8 had nothing to do with it, and it's really all just because of tablets.. wasn't Windows 8 supposed to repair this? PC sales are tanking more than ever, and W8 tablets are flopping even harder. So even if we go strictly by the party-line argumentation, EVEN THEN W8 IS A FAILURE.

Bingo!

--JorgeA

#1985
jaclaz

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You will get banned for this.

Maybe NOT banned :ph34r: but surely get a stern look of disapproval :whistle:

Spoiler


:lol:

jaclaz

#1986
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The courts will be scroogled, too:

http://www.zdnet.com...ase-7000011571/

#1987
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OT :ph34r:
I find that the word that better describes the thesis by Oracle is ridiculous, but I find outrageous :realmad: that they needed to create the fictional character of Ann Droid to explain the (supposed) similarities between an API and literature (and with reference to Harry Potter :w00t: ):
http://www.informati...s-sof/240148512

To support Oracles position, the more than two dozen attorneys listed on the company's appeal have constructed a fictitious character, Ann Droid, who copies liberally from actual author J.K. Rowling's Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix to produce a hypothetical knockoff that gets her sued for copyright infringement. The justification that Ann Droid offers is that she wrote most of the words herself and that what copying she did was necessary to appeal to the Harry Potter fan base.

"Defendant Google Inc. has copied a blockbuster literary work just as surely, and as improperly, as Ann Droid -- and has offered the same defenses," the filing claims.


I mean, besides MS thinking that all their users are (at the most) 5 years old, Oracle seems to imply that a US Appeal Curt is populated by 9 years kids instead of judges.


jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 20 February 2013 - 01:47 PM.


#1988
HalloweenDocument12

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Over the years I've heard that not only could Gates code, he was actually top shelf. Here's an old Register article:

http://www.theregist...tes_write_code/

Yeah, Register is a rag. But there's also the matter of it taking 30 years to beat a sorting algorithm he invented:

http://en.wikipedia....Pancake_sorting

Most "real" programmers would probably be satisfied having to their name just one of the credible tales that surrounded Gates. I say he's legit, even if his coding career was short.

#1989
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Repost from techbroil.com by another poster:

Microsoft's strategy is straight from Dilbert:

http://dilbert.com/s...mic/2005-12-22/

"Our new product is a cable that doesn't attach to anything."

"We hope to create demand via a series of commercials showing young people dancing"

Edited by Formfiller, 20 February 2013 - 03:16 PM.


#1990
CharlotteTheHarlot

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This is the only one that left me scratching my head. What does it mean to say that "activation has reinvigorated privacy instead of reducing it"? (I do understand the rest of it about not supplying install media or downloadable ISOs.)

The whole concept of runtime "loaders", previously only used for rare and expensive top-tier applications with sophisticated license management, is completely successful according to those that use them. They essentially simulate a license server or do other tricks to satisfy the DRM. In the old days it was key generators that created working install codes for things like Office and other suites.

Perhaps I should have said it simply did nothing to thwart piracy which was the whole purpose of "Activation" in the first place. But IMHO it re-invigorated piracy because the "Loader" technique allows them to get updates as if they were legitimate. Previously the serial number they used would be found out and blacklisted. so the move to Activation was beyond self-defeating for Microsoft and others. However, there are those out there that argue that it is better this way ( Activation ) because a patched pirate system is better than an unpatched one for overall security purposes.

Disclaimer: I do not support piracy! I hope that general description didn't violate forum rules. But the cat and mouse game is an incredibly fascinating subject to follow.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1991
HalloweenDocument12

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Windows loaders spoof a hardware fingerprint, thus making an OEM VLK valid.

Later Office 2010 activators spoofed activation servers I think but the earlier ones just reset the trial period. They'd install a service that basically reset the trial info every 24 hours.

Loaders are very useful for test deployments because Microsoft's VLK licensing doesn't give enough leeway to do dry runs. In fact, once working, you might as well keep the loaders there. It's like the old days this way: install everywhere but make sure the number of licenses you own matches the number of deployments. It'd be nice if Microsoft would release licence management tools that businesses could realistically use, but it actually gets worse every year.

#1992
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Over the years I've heard that not only could Gates code, he was actually top shelf. Here's an old Register article:

http://www.theregist...tes_write_code/

Yeah, Register is a rag. But there's also the matter of it taking 30 years to beat a sorting algorithm he invented:

http://en.wikipedia....Pancake_sorting

Most "real" programmers would probably be satisfied having to their name just one of the credible tales that surrounded Gates. I say he's legit, even if his coding career was short.

Thanks for that old link! ( and the true sentiments ). I remember the early days of the industry very well. At the place where I was he was definitely considered legendary by all coders during the BASIC / Assembler and later C era on x86 processors. While we were still seeking some modicum of respect ( what is this programming thing anyway? ) , icons like Gates and Allen ( and Ritchie, Wozniak, etc ) tended to rally like-minded souls. Needless to say, Microsoft was NOT yet considered a monopolistic threat during those first couple of years of DOS, so we were still able to consider them a pure source of programming languages who just happened to sell a few vaguely interesting regular applications on the side. Ignorance was bliss among geeky computer science purists.

The link I found upthread ( #1960 ) is to a 3rd party biography, so it is at best 2nd hand, but from what I can tell is likely 3rd hand ( Gates or Allen not directly interviewed or quoted on the exact circumstances ).

I have searched so many times for a 1st hand account of the Altair incident from either of the two, but so far no luck. The "Yellow Legal Pad" story has persisted throughout the years but I still would love just for the sake of curiosity, to hear the exact feat he accomplished under a wicked deadline, the bane of all programmers, especially when a contract is on the line.

I'm not sure if either Gates or Allen wrote autobiographies, but maybe they addressed this particular story / fable? One would hope so. Anything focusing on the Albuquerque years, their golden age for hardcore programming, would be a great read. The Bellevue years are probably interesting because of the PC and DOS growth era but I bet Gates and Allen spent less time with each passing moment slinging bits. The Redmond years, well we know where that has led. 100,000 employees and many many layers of blubber separating them from the meat of software code.

ADDED: I used to dislike the Register also, but not these days. The general article focus is certainly more pro-Open Source and articles about Microsoft have a decidedly biased or slanted approach, but that is fine by me. They can't all be swooning groupies for Ballmer and Gates lest we get no other points of view. They are probably my favorite source for tech stories when considering the compromised, bought-and-paid-for alternatives elsewhere. The commenters are very good, and there are many veterans in there who sometimes contribute more substance than a given article author.

ADDED2: following the stories from HalloweenDocument12 I finally found something apparently directly from Gates. See Transcript of a Video History Interview with Mr. William "Bill" Gates in which he does get into nitty gritty coding details and BASIC on the Altair. He does NOT specifically confirm the "Yellow Legal Pad" story though. So the quest continues.

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 21 February 2013 - 01:14 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1993
JorgeA

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The whole concept of runtime "loaders"

Ahh, OK, it makes more sense now. Thank you!

--JorgeA

#1994
ciHnoN

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I had posted a reply "@wkempf: Are you suggesting that the above is sane gUI design elements?" ...and they deleted it right off! hahaha

http://channel9.msdn...s-8-basic-theme

When you cannot win using words, yeah, just ignore and delete them. It will make Windows basic theme better!


He who laughs has not yet heard the bad news.

#1995
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Going Pro: Post-PC vs. PC-Plus ( Thurrott 2013-02-20 )

Another installment in the milking Surface Pro series. Just some tepid remarks of the "transition" phase we find ourselves in thanks to Microsoft and their ceaseless chasing of fads and trends as they succumb to envy of their successful competitors.

He does repeat something he has said in the past, a clear description of the cynical strategy Microsoft has undertaken ...

One of the debates around Windows 8 is whether Microsoft would have been better off creating something called Windows 8 that was simply Windows 7 plus the desktop updates they did ship in Windows 8, and targeting that system at traditional PCs. Then they could have created this separate “Metro” OS and targeted a new class of touch-based Windows devices. As I wrote in Microsoft’s Mobile Strategy is Correct, however, that tactic would have failed. Traditional PC buyers would have stuck with Windows 8, and virtually no one would have purchased Metro devices, leaving the non-PC world to Android and iOS.


This no doubt mirrors what his Microsoft contacts also feel. Let's summarize: Standalone Microsoft Tiles for mobile devices would have failed. Therefore, shoehorning it into "Windows for Everyone" was a sensible strategy. Left unsaid is the ethics of this cynical plan, exemplified by removing the Start Menu and routing bootstrap straight into Metro which just happens to host the gateway to the Microsoft Store. For good measure make the remaining desktop so friggin' ugly by removing Aero Glass, smoothed corners and flattening 3D shadow and chrome effects reverting the experience back to Windows 1.0x ( with a lame HTML+CSS facsimile of same ). This destruction of the Windows desktop GUI, again left unsaid by Thurrott, is to get the Windows veteran to more readily accept the Playskool Metro nightmare. If there is still doubt that Microsoft could be this manipulative, just look at the Office fiasco of the past few days which used precisely the same strategy ( make the licensing terms for Office 2013 so sour that the customer will instead jump to the sweet deal in the cloud with Office 364 ). They're doing it even as we speak, no conspiracy theories are necessary. MicroZealots and Softies, you may now stop making believe you are unfairly under siege, you are doing it to yourselves.

The lack of ethics is what burns me up, both from these "journalists" and of course the geniuses up in Redmond. Letting the product fend for itself in the market is not even an option ( and they admit it ), and few "journalists" even consider this a problem. Shoehorning it into another product which billions of people require also doesn't raise any red flags of ethics and responsibility, and even fewer "journalists" apparently consider this a problem. This isn't just any other product being corrupted here. This is critical infrastructure of the 21st century, presently affecting over 90% of computers. In a more sane world the "Windows" product would be declared a public utility and be removed from them. They've made enough cash off this coercive monopoly already, and the current plan underway to monetize it further by assimilating these monopoly victims into the new Microsoft walled-garden is beyond all bounds of ethics.

Thurrott also gives us with some quaint prose ...

Windows 8 is like a new-born foal, all elbows and knees, incomplete and unsure of itself, and future updates to the OS—as well as future, less compromising devices—may help this hybrid system come into its own.


... well that's one thing that can happen to Bambi. There is another outcome as well :whistle: ...

Spoiler


EDIT: typos

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 21 February 2013 - 01:58 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#1996
HalloweenDocument12

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This one has the Tiles color scheme

Spoiler


#1997
ciHnoN

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Just a reminder to all developers reading this thread. This time, WE actually have a choice. Unlike the 90s. It is us, the developers who will make or break Windows 8 locked-in prison Orwellian naming "Marketplace".

Please do not forget it! Each "App" you create in this Orwellian locked-in prison, not only will you give 30% of your profit to Microsoft. You also lose your freedom of controlling your own computers. With each "App" you make in there, you take one step closer to a total a locked-in prison called "Marketplace" where Microsoft dictates EVERYTHING.

Remember, corporations are not charities. They are not here to benefit humanity. They are here to make a profit. No matter what.

If you think they have behaved badly in the past, just wait until they have a total control over your applications. This also applies to Apple and Google, of course.

Don't get too distracted by the gUI changes. They know exactly what they are doing. They are making a distraction in a weaker front to make war on the real side, which is the locked walled prison.

Never ever forget, if you write a WinRT "App", you lose the freedom to copy it to your friend or another PC in your own home. You must ask permission from Microsoft FIRST, the forced to publish it on their Orwellian "store" and THEN if they are kind enough, they may let you use it on your PCs.

For the icing on the cake, they will have full power to remove it from your PCs and everyone elses' PCs if they feel like it.Never say it won't or can't happen, because it can... and it will... http://io9.com/53177...from-the-kindle "Thousands of people last week discovered that Amazon had quietly removed electronic copies of George Orwell's 1984 from their Kindle e-book readers. In the process, Amazon revealed how easy censorship will be in the Kindle age."

It the oldest trick in the book. Keep your eyes open and watch your steps, there be mines out there. :ph34r:


The future if you allow them... dark... and very claustrophobic:

Posted Image

Edited by ciHnoN, 21 February 2013 - 02:18 AM.

He who laughs has not yet heard the bad news.

#1998
Formfiller

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If you think they have behaved badly in the past, just wait until they have a total control over your applications. This also applies to Apple and Google, of course.


And Sony:

http://www.zdnet.com...why-7000011602/

Sony's new console will be "seamlessly interconnected" with your social life, said Mark Cerny, PS4's lead system architect, with such features as the ability to stream video of your gameplay for others to watch. Interaction will generally involve players' real names and profile pictures, except "when anonymity is important". Who decides that is unclear.

..

But Sony's approach started to sound creepy when Cerny said that PS4 can "can get to know you, and bring you closer to the game and other experiences". What other experiences are these, exactly? And apparently, "if we know enough about you", then Sony can figure out what games you want and they "can be loaded and ready to go before you even click the button".

...

Sony has decided that on PlayStation Network, we'll reveal our identities

At another level, Sony has decided that PlayStation will become part of what I've called "the great Facebook experiment". And that's the elephant in the room.


Hurra! Soon we will excel all those techno-dystopia movies.

Angry Birds 3 will be only playable after you let Windows 10 analyze your DNA code, which will promptly be send to Bodybook, saved and processed there. If it will find that you're prone to illnesses, that info will be broadcasted to all your friends, to warn them not to spend much time with you and develop stronger bonds.. Your health-care insurance will of course automatically go up. And your spouse will get bombarded with ads for divorce lawyers.

Angry Birds fans and Celltards (the Windows 10 UI) will cheer them up for this, and if you protest any step in the cycle, you will get labeled of being afraid of change! Posted Image

Edited by Formfiller, 21 February 2013 - 03:20 AM.


#1999
jaclaz

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http://winsupersite....t-pc-vs-pc-plus

Preparing for trip, I asked my kids, aged 14 and 11, what electronics they intended to bring with them. My son, the older child, said he would take his laptop—a hand-me-down ThinkPad—as well as his 4th generation iPod touch. “Why not the iPad?” I asked. (He has a hand-me-down iPad as well.) He prefers the iPod touch. There you go.

My daughter would also bring her laptop—and hand-me-down Macbook Air running Windows 7—and a Samsung Galaxy Tab 7.0 Plus tablet. “Why not the iPad?” I asked her too. (She also has a hand-me-down iPad, in this case an even older iPad 2.) “Eh. I like the little tablet better.”

So here are my kids, eschewing full-sized iPads for smaller devices, but still bringing along traditional laptops, the latter of which are used for a combination of (school) work and play. Both watched movies on the trip using the laptops, not the devices. Their choice.

Interesting.


SCOOP! :w00t:
Paul Thurrot's kids, 14 and 11, show how they have much more common sense AND understand computers and their use MUCH better than their father!
:lol:

jaclaz

#2000
CharlotteTheHarlot

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For the icing on the cake, they will have full power to remove it from your PCs and everyone elses' PCs if they feel like it.Never say it won't or can't happen, because it can... and it will... http://io9.com/53177...from-the-kindle "Thousands of people last week discovered that Amazon had quietly removed electronic copies of George Orwell's 1984 from their Kindle e-book readers. In the process, Amazon revealed how easy censorship will be in the Kindle age."

Quite the story! :thumbup Could it possibly get more ironic than that? If you don't mind I'll excerpt it ...

Amazon Secretly Removes “1984” From the Kindle

An uproar followed, with outraged customers pointing out the irony that Amazon was deleting copies of a novel about a fascist media state that constantly alters history by changing digital records of what has happened. Amazon's action flies in the face of what people expect when they purchase a book. Under the "right of first sale" in the U.S., people can do whatever they like with a book after purchasing it, including giving it to a friend or reselling it. There is no option for a bookseller to take that book back once it's sold.


Somehow I missed that one at the time ( 2009 ). Simply amazing!

EDIT: typos, clarity

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 21 February 2013 - 03:23 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...





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