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Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions


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#2051
JorgeA

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It will die a natural death when there's nothing more left to say -- please, don't euthanize it!!


Hmmm.
Posted Image
Posted Image

Maybe we could start a petition here ;) :
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/

"Please don't cannibalize this poor thread on MSFN"

I guess an initial target of 180 signatures could be adequate. :angel

:thumbup

If we can borrow MSFT's bots, we can get that target to quickly grow to 18,000. B)

--JorgeA


How to remove advertisement from MSFN

#2052
JorgeA

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Yes, as Formfiller said, please don't touch this thread. This is the soul reason I joined MSFN and donated money to it. Do NOT split this thread. Although the subjects varies in this thread, it has become a very important thread. Splitting it into 100 different subjects or closing it will only confuse people and we will lose valuable information all gathered in one place.


I personally find MSFN already highly confusing and splitted into way too many subjects frankly.

I know you mean well but this specific thread has become way too important now. :lol: :wub:

So please, keep it running. :)

+100 !!! :yes:

--JorgeA

#2053
HalloweenDocument12

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The best part of that parody is the use of the Windows 1 font for the transition cards. Great touch.

If my opinion matters, I would likely cease visiting were this topic shut down. At this point, this thread is effectively a sub-forum. I was reading along for weeks before I decided to join. While discussion isn't on-topic with the thread title, it is consistent within itself, if that makes any sense. What happened is that "deeper analysis" lead to spilling over from Windows 8 to Microsoft's current corporate strategy, how they got there, and where they are likely to go. Reading the topic for some time, it has flowed naturally, which I think is much of the appeal.

#2054
Formfiller

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The original article is even better:

http://msnblog.msn.c...23-24194a392342

Americans Lose Nearly a Full Day per Year Waiting for Web Pages to Load

Lots of Americans are still on a Pentum 60? I hope they run an OS with FDIV fix.

Research shows MSN on Windows 8 is more than 4 times faster, on average, than leading news and information sites


"Portal sites are the future".

The web today is more than just static pages, it’s loaded with rich video, photos, graphics, and audio that elicits the need for speed.


Web browsers can display graphics now? Maybe I should upgrade to that Netscape thing everyone is talking about on usenet..

We suspected that people would be even more sensitive to page latency on touch-enabled tablets running Windows 8


Is that statement pro W8 or anti W8?

and we saw a unique opportunity to build a faster, more modern site using the features available in Internet Explorer 10 and Windows 8


Which would that be?!

Because Internet Explorer 10 was designed to take advantage of the system architecture of Windows 8, rendering complex page layouts and high resolution images is faster and more fluidly. That’s why load times for MSN for Windows 8 are more than four times faster on average than other leading news and information sites.


Wait, if rendering complex page layouts is faster now in general with IE 10, why would "the new MSN" profit from that so much? That page is LESS complex (screenshot) in layout due to the metro design than the sites they compare it with (ESPN, CNN). The only reason it's faster is because it's actually SIMPLER than those. But they want to imply it's faster because it's more complex or something!

Edited by Formfiller, 22 February 2013 - 04:55 PM.


#2055
jaclaz

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If my opinion matters, I would likely cease visiting were this topic shut down.

Well, besides the issue about your opinion mattering or not :unsure: , you may realize how we could set up a petition to actually split this thread to the sole scope :angel of having you cease visiting. :ph34r:

"Sign this petition to have MSFN mods split the abnormally long and substantially OT topic into n threads AND get rid of HalloweenDocument12 as collateral damage"

:lol:

About the "speed test", the actual study (page 18):
http://www.principle...dtime_1112.pdf.
fails to provide the actual script that was used.
For all we know httpwatchscript.psl could contain (WARNING: PseudoCode):
IF NOT %siteurl% CONTAINS "msn.com" SLEEP %random%*200

:angel

It's BTW interesting (still page 18) how:

Note: we conducted 10-run iterations of the test at three different times of day to reflect varying Web traffic conditions.
The times of day were morning and afternoon of November 15 and 16, 2012.

Which can be easily re-written as:

Note: we conducted 10-run iterations of the test at 3 (three) different times of day to reflect varying Web traffic conditions.
The times of day were:

  • morning and
  • afternoon
of November 15 and 16, 2012.


OR as:

Note: we conducted 10-run iterations of the test at 3 (three) different times of day to reflect varying Web traffic conditions.
The times of day were:

  • morning of November 15, 2012.
  • afternoon of November 15, 2012.
  • morning of November 16, 2012.
  • afternoon of November 16, 2012.


jaclaz

#2056
Formfiller

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http://www.principledtechnologies.com/Microsoft/MSN_loadtime_1112.pdf.


Page 2 quotes Jakob - "W8 is terrible" - Nielsen!

#2057
CharlotteTheHarlot

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JFYI, this topic has outgrown its original purpose and has become a catch-all for various related news articles and reactions/discussions. I will leave it open for now, but its life is running out.

But that's precisely what's great about this wild and woolly thread! :)

It certainly has developed over time. Because Microsoft insists on foisting the same uniform UI on users of all of its devices, what started as a critique of Windows 8 specifically grew out to WOA/RT and the Windows Phone, and from there has come to (also, but not only) encompass what's wrong with Microsoft. If the topics get split off mandatorily, they will each become that much less prominent.

Not to mention the fact that this thread is a running time-capsule snapshot-in-time of the Windows 8 and Metro Beta2 >> RTM >> Oblivion chronology. :lol:

It really is a good use of the concept of forum "threads", being able to later traverse past events as they happened. Not all threads need to be focused and closed or "solved", having 99% of them managed that way is fine, but not all.

The only thing I regret is that "First Impressions" and "Deeper Impressions" weren't one continuous flow, perhaps just "Impressions". But that horse left the barn long ago!


Hmmm.
Posted Image
Posted Image

Maybe we could start a petition here ;) :
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/

"Please don't cannibalize this poor thread on MSFN"

I guess an initial target of 180 signatures could be adequate. :angel

Now that's funny right there!

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#2058
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Posted Image

Posted Image

I can honestly say that the Windows 1.0x logo is much more attractive than Windows Code Blue.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#2059
HalloweenDocument12

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Wait, if rendering complex page layouts is faster now in general with IE 10, why would "the new MSN" profit from that so much? That page is LESS complex (screenshot) in layout due to the metro design than the sites they compare it with (ESPN, CNN). The only reason it's faster is because it's actually SIMPLER than those. But they want to imply it's faster because it's more complex or something!


Hm, I hadn't actually seen the MSN page. The article thumbnail is too small. MSN8 has the same information density problems as Windows 8 and Office 2013. Not a surprise I guess. Without borders, it's hard on the eye to determine flow. There's not enough text on the screen to make obvious "blocks", and it's not justified which exasperates the problem.

"Sign this petition to have MSFN mods split the abnormally long and substantially OT topic into n threads AND get rid of HalloweenDocument12 as collateral damage"


Then you won't have Nixon to kick around anymore. Do you really want Gerald Ford?

About the "speed test", the actual study (page 18):
http://www.principle...dtime_1112.pdf.
fails to provide the actual script that was used.
For all we know httpwatchscript.psl could contain (WARNING: PseudoCode):

IF NOT %siteurl% CONTAINS "msn.com" SLEEP %random%*200


On the topic, why'd they use PowerShell? I thought it was supposed to be an independent study. Is PowerShell really the best tool for the job?

#2060
JorgeA

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If my opinion matters, I would likely cease visiting were this topic shut down. At this point, this thread is effectively a sub-forum. I was reading along for weeks before I decided to join. While discussion isn't on-topic with the thread title, it is consistent within itself, if that makes any sense. What happened is that "deeper analysis" lead to spilling over from Windows 8 to Microsoft's current corporate strategy, how they got there, and where they are likely to go. Reading the topic for some time, it has flowed naturally, which I think is much of the appeal.

Well, I for one wouldn't want to see you drop out, you're one of the new players who've reinvigorated the thread with additional perspectives (sorry for not including you on the list earlier, I suspected that it wasn't complete and I was in a rush).

--JorgeA

#2061
JorgeA

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This thread will go down in history as one of the great threads in all time. I'm sure of it. They will look back and call all the contributors to this thread enlightened beings.

Frankly, you guys made me feel at home for once. For the longest time I had given up hope for humanity but little did I know that sane true humans still exist! I'm serious.

It also inspired me to start foolsdesign.org.

I have the highest respect for everyone who has contributed to this thead. :wub:

I wish I could buy you all a nice cold one! :D

Posted Image

I'm very glad that this thread has made a difference for you. That's one of the values it's come to serve. And I'd be willing to wager that this thread is the most extensive and wide-ranging critique of Windows 8 and of Microsoft's corporate strategy anywhere on the Internet.

Cheers!

--JorgeA

#2062
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Posted Image

Dear Microsoft, sorry to nitpick, but I just noticed a mistake in that Windows 8 logo.

If that is really meant to show perspective, the horizontal line in the blue Window panes should be tapered thinner to thicker from left to right.

As it stands, the blue Window is tapered for faux-perspective with a normal "+" sign superimposed. So just who was the child using Microsoft Paint that scarfed up this contract? And they paid what?

EDIT: clarity

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 23 February 2013 - 01:00 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#2063
ciHnoN

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Posted Image

Posted Image

I can honestly say that the Windows 1.0x logo is much more attractive than Windows Code Blue.


The first logo, is supposed to show when the insanity really started to kick in. With the great great great one which you pointed out about the faulty horizontal line which should be thinner.


The Windows "Blue"... it's showing when they go completely deranged, see how the lines are now screwed up? :D :D :D :angel


He who laughs has not yet heard the bad news.

#2064
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Microsoft's attempts to clarify Office licensing policies fall short ( Ed Bott ZDNet 2013-02-22 )

He!! has frozen over. Ed Bott criticizes Microsoft over the Office licensing fiasco and their lame attempts at "clarity" ( related stories linked above ). He zeroes in on a couple of things that haven't got a lot of attention. Specifically this thing about what happens when the PC dies or is lost to theft or fire, to which Microsoft offers an absolutely crazy attempt at a new responsibility-shifting precedent: "An exception is granted when the software is on a PC that is replaced under warranty." Say what? :blink: What does a computer warranty have to do with Microsoft? Nothing. Not only that, what do you mean by "exception"? They're saying they will only do something to benefit the paying customer in only the rarest of circumstances? This is clearly an attempt to get the sheeple used to reduced responsibility from Microsoft, to officially lower customer expectations. Trust me, later they will reduce them further and further.

Note that it has also been suggested in comments by some MicroZealots that in the case of fire or theft a person can simply call the insurance company, instead of Microsoft, no worries mate!. Again, Say what? :blink: The latter case is obviously the thought process of basement-dwelling children who do not have the slightest clue about how insurance works and the consequences to your premiums of trying to collect for damages, even when perfectly legitimate. However, this too is a distraction. No-one is even asking for money or material from Microsoft. The remedy to make the customer whole again is neither of those things. It is only to legally re-activate the friggin software, and perhaps provide a downloadable installer! The problem is on their end, not ours. What they are actually doing is tightening the activation procedure from the old days. Instead of improving the experience that many angry legitimate customers underwent with Windows XP and Office XP who made the phone call, explained the situation and got re-activated or a new code, they are worsening it! They simply altered it to "Sorry, no re-activation!" They have actually found a way to make things worse!

Ed Bott also discusses an interesting past event, a stunningly Orwellian example of attempted manipulation of the historical record ...

If the BSA ever kicked down your door and accused you of violating your license agreement because you couldn’t prove that your Office licenses were attached to the original PC on which they were installed, you could pay your lawyers to bring this blog post to the attention of the judge trying the case. Of course, that assumes that Microsoft doesn’t change its mind and remove or edit this post later.

That’s not just a paranoid assumption on my part. It’s an exact summary of what Microsoft did with its OEM license terms for Windows several years ago, where it published an exception to the license terms for “hobbyists” and then, a few years later, “deliberately and methodically scrubbed all traces of those documents from the web.” Go read that story and then spot the parallels with this situation.


Whoa! :blink:

Has any company in history ever viewed their customers with such contempt? It's as if they have a task force charged with scouring all aspects of the business to identify areas where the customer is treated fairly and then reverse it with extreme prejudice. :lol:

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#2065
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Microsoft secure Azure Storage goes down WORLDWIDE. Looks like Redmond forgot to renew a security certificate... ( UK Register 2013-02-22 )

Windows Azure storage issue: Expired HTTPS certificate possibly at fault ( Mary Jo Foley ZDNet 2013-02-22 )

Windows Azure suffers yet another extended outage ( NeoWin 2013-02-23 )

Update: 3pm

It appears that Azure is in the grip of a global cascading fail.

The storage problems have severely impacted other key components of the Azure cloud, including some of the services Microsoft has previously used to differentiate itself from arch-rival Amazon Web services.

The Windows Azure Service Bus, which helps pass information between different parts of the megacloud; Azure Web Sites, which offers easy-peasy hosting; Access Control 2.0; and the windowsazure.com website itself have all been hit by “service degradation.”


What more is there to say really?

Posted Image



EDIT: added link, new picture URL

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 15 March 2013 - 02:58 PM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#2066
JorgeA

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Dear Microsoft, sorry to nitpick, but I just noticed a mistake in that Windows 8 logo.

If that is really meant to show perspective, the horizontal line in the blue Window panes should be tapered thinner to thicker from left to right.

As it stands, the blue Window is tapered for faux-perspective with a normal "+" sign superimposed. So just who was the child using Microsoft Paint that scarfed up this contract? And they paid what?

You just don't get it, do ya? ;) Perspective -- or anything that's evocative of the real world, like 3D depth graphical elements -- is skeuomorphism and must be banished!!!

(Incidentally, make sure to check out the section, "The Limits of Flat" in that long and generally fair discussion I linked to.)

--JorgeA

#2067
JorgeA

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Ed Bott also discusses an interesting past event, a stunningly Orwellian example of attempted manipulation of the historical record ...

If the BSA ever kicked down your door and accused you of violating your license agreement because you couldn’t prove that your Office licenses were attached to the original PC on which they were installed, you could pay your lawyers to bring this blog post to the attention of the judge trying the case. Of course, that assumes that Microsoft doesn’t change its mind and remove or edit this post later.

That’s not just a paranoid assumption on my part. It’s an exact summary of what Microsoft did with its OEM license terms for Windows several years ago, where it published an exception to the license terms for “hobbyists” and then, a few years later, “deliberately and methodically scrubbed all traces of those documents from the web.” Go read that story and then spot the parallels with this situation.


Man, oh man -- the parallels to "1984" do keep coming. This is an exact, digital-era version of the memory hole.

Wow.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA, 23 February 2013 - 10:29 AM.


#2068
MagicAndre1981

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Windows 7 still being sold on up to 93% of British PCs

His customers quickly began to specify systems with Windows 7, and said Windows 8 customers "took delivery and wanted to change back to Windows 7" – a process Redford described as a "nightmare".

Redford changed the default installation from Windows 8 to Windows 7 and now offers both systems on all of his machines. Redford is also "considering offering an open source Start menu [for Windows 8] with an option to disable the Start screen" as a free option for his customers.

Redford's Computer Planet isn't the only British firm struggling with the launch of Windows 8. One company told us that of the 1,459 machines it's sold so far in 2013, only 7% have left the factory with Windows 8 installed.


Posted Image

#2069
TheBigBang

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Ed Bott also discusses an interesting past event, a stunningly Orwellian example of attempted manipulation of the historical record ...

If the BSA ever kicked down your door and accused you of violating your license agreement because you couldn’t prove that your Office licenses were attached to the original PC on which they were installed, you could pay your lawyers to bring this blog post to the attention of the judge trying the case. Of course, that assumes that Microsoft doesn’t change its mind and remove or edit this post later.

That’s not just a paranoid assumption on my part. It’s an exact summary of what Microsoft did with its OEM license terms for Windows several years ago, where it published an exception to the license terms for “hobbyists” and then, a few years later, “deliberately and methodically scrubbed all traces of those documents from the web.” Go read that story and then spot the parallels with this situation.


Man, oh man -- the parallels to "1984" do keep coming. This is an exact, digital-era version of the memory hole.

Wow.

--JorgeA

As I always said..w8 is nothing more than a w3.11..full of gapes.
Cheers!

#2070
CharlotteTheHarlot

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The first logo, is supposed to show when the insanity really started to kick in. With the great great great one which you pointed out about the faulty horizontal line which should be thinner.

I would never have noticed except for that juxtaposition that Formfiller did where the geometry of the windows pane lines lined up so nicely ...

Posted Image

Posted Image

Obviously the child drew a blue rectangle, applied a perspective and then pasted a normal "+" plus sign. I wonder what Microsoft paid him?


You just don't get it, do ya? ;) Perspective -- or anything that's evocative of the real world, like 3D depth graphical elements -- is skeuomorphism and must be banished!!!

(Incidentally, make sure to check out the section, "The Limits of Flat" in that long and generally fair discussion I linked to.)

You're right! :thumbup My bad, I was thinking old school!

EDIT: typos

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 24 February 2013 - 01:02 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#2071
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Windows 8 and Toyota come together to build a faster race car ( NeoWin 2013-02-23 )

Okay everyone, be honest. I'm not the only one who thought of this when reading that headline ...

Spoiler



NYPD has a group dedicated to recovering stolen iPhones ( NeoWin 2013-02-23 )

What? No Lumia or WP8 phone recovery task force? How come? :lol: ( hey, it's the weekend, lighten up! )



Microsoft claims no involvement in raid of hacker who leaked next-gen Xbox info ( NeoWin 2013-02-23 )

"We had nothing to do with it" says Microsoft. Yeah right. It smells a lot like the RIAA and Kim DotCom fiasco ( that one with with commandos and helicopters ). Somewhat related, well, at least to the high tech police state we find ourselves in, there was another story at CNet a few days back: Facebook pic of toy mortar leads to armed cops raid where a guy looks out his window to see "five carloads of police who raided ..." his house because of a misunderstood picture he had on Facebook. I don't know about anyone else, but in my opinion the only time SWAT or commandos should be swooping in on private property is when there is a high probability of a Uranium enrichment lab on site. Anything short of this, especially including enforcement of dubious violations in the opinion of the BSA, RIAA, Microsoft or any other IP "owner" should be considered verboten, period. When governments become the SS stormtroopers for corporations, what else can this be called but fascism?



John Carmack Gives PlayStation 4 a Thumbs Up ( Tom's Hardware 2013-02-24 )

I submit this as proof that Microsoft isn't the only giant to be chopped down to size with the passage of time. It hurts to see this from a legend such as Carmack, but for the love of God, how can he not be aware of the radical privacy invasions that Sony is perpetrating, it's everywhere, including above as mentioned by Formfiller referencing this ZDNet column: PS4 socials all the gaming, says Sony; but why?. Always connected, NON-anonymous, plugged-in like the Matrix, what could possibly be wrong with that? Jeez John, come back to Earth son. You made your mark specifically by writing a killer non-networked graphical 3D output engine by thinking entirely outside-the-box, and now you cheer for mega-corporate consumer sheep-herding devices that coral them inside-the-box, and worst of all, Sony's box? So very disappointing.


EDIT: typo

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 24 February 2013 - 03:19 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#2072
JorgeA

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BSODs r not so frequent, but in regard of w7, :yes: they r..
e.g., in W7 BSOD never occurred.
Also, there is no rule, simply it happens without any logical conclusion, i.e. clue .

btw,I expect a 'BLUE' thing or SP1 would b a solution.

I finally got a chance to spend some time looking into this issue of Windows 8 BSOD's.

Unfortunately, it didn't do much good. There seems to be no special pattern for blue screens appearing in Win8 (that's what I was hoping to find), they happen for all sorts of reasons.

But I can say that a Google search for "windows 7 bsod" gave back 5.78 million results, while a search for "windows 8 bsod" produced 4.9 million results... and Windows 8 has only been out for 17 months, if you include the preview versions. (A search for "windows vista bsod" came back with 3.46 million results. :thumbup ) I thought we were told that Windows 8 would be so much more stable than any previous edition of Windows?

Sorry I wasn't more help.

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA, 24 February 2013 - 11:35 AM.


#2073
JorgeA

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Posted Image

I meant to ask you: what XP theme are you using there? Looks really sharp.

--JorgeA

#2074
ricktendo

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Posted Image

I meant to ask you: what XP theme are you using there? Looks really sharp.

--JorgeA

Looks like official (unreleased) Royale Noir

Edited by ricktendo, 24 February 2013 - 12:14 PM.


#2075
JorgeA

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Interesting discussion I came across as I was researching something else:

Is Microsoft On The Verge Of A Sudden Collapse Or Just A Long, Slow Decline?

--JorgeA




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