Jump to content

Welcome to MSFN Forum
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. This message will be removed once you have signed in.
Login to Account Create an Account


Photo

Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions


  • Please log in to reply
6031 replies to this topic

#2226
JorgeA

JorgeA

    FORMAT B: /V /S

  • MSFN Sponsor
  • 3,150 posts
  • OS:Vista Home Premium x64
  • Country: Country Flag

Didn't read that page fully? Seems they don't like us much, especially "Charlotte". I had done a Google

msfn site:neowin.net
to show another user how "useful" they now are (not very). Doing the reverse yields a lot as well. My point being, since "Charlotte" popped on them about being "Windows 8 Fanboys", I thought I would chirp in about it. Funny, they look to US for Win8 "fixes" too, not to mention MANY other tools, tips, (etc). Seems our website is NOT to be discussed over there (note the LAST post and topic LOCKED). :w00t:

Just funny that the REAL techie sites (like RVM, MSFN) get the recognition, but not "high hit counts" but Fanboy Websites do.

Oh, well, who cares - found an MSFN thread that basically said (sic) "ignore them - they send non-Fanboys to us". (Main Forum "Affiliated" - no RVM...)

P.S. I have no burning desire for Win8/2012 - have only "battled" (de-trojan'ed) someone else' Win7 so far (will go for that one or maybe 2k8).

[trying to de-escalate...]

Yeah, I did read the thread but what threw me was the part about "RyanVM." I'd never heard of this (him? it?) and it sounded like somebody's nickname, so when you mentioned it I went looking for a "RyanVM" in that Neowin thread to see what they had said about us. (I didn't have a clear idea of the affiliation thing, either.) Of course I didn't find anybody posting under that name, which left me confused. :blushing: Now I know better. :)

Thanks for explaining.

--JorgeA

P.S. For the record, I enjoy and value Charlotte's frequent, in-depth, and incisive reporting/analysis.

Edited by JorgeA, 12 March 2013 - 12:27 AM.



How to remove advertisement from MSFN

#2227
HalloweenDocument12

HalloweenDocument12

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 118 posts
  • OS:Windows 7 x64
  • Country: Country Flag

Yeah, I did read the thread but what threw me was the part about "RyanVM." I'd never heard of this (him? it?)


RyanVM was one of the major Windows XP deployment products associated with MSFN, along with nLite and HFSLIP. Until this thread, I didn't associate MSFN with anything else.

Edited by HalloweenDocument12, 12 March 2013 - 12:29 AM.


#2228
submix8c

submix8c

    Inconceivable!

  • Patrons
  • 4,281 posts
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag
@ricktendo -

Dude! Chill! Like/dislike anyone you want!

I just found it "interesting reading". The posts weren't MEANT for anything else. They DO have a tendency to knock any other Forum - and NOT just a "single user". Google told me that.

Personally, I frequent what I consider "useful" Forums, almost exclusively this one. Others are Reboot, RVM, Wincert ,(etc) - you know, those that HELP you with CORRECT info and nifty tools/tips.

The POINT was the hateful attitude found over at neowin. (paraphrased example - "HAHA! MSFN doesn't have news on their front page like WE do!" Childish, yes?) Indeed, at ONE point in time on MSFN "neowin = <<spam>>" and vice-versa. (see last comment on the given link before it was locked for attitude example).

Google
msfn spam site:neowin.net
and the filter was (as at MSFN) finally removed. Who knows (and who really cares) what the "deal" was?

I've already (troll) posted in this Topic already as follows -
http://www.msfn.org/...dpost&p=1000896
http://www.msfn.org/...dpost&p=1001207
http://www.msfn.org/...dpost&p=1001636
http://www.msfn.org/...dpost&p=1001845
http://www.msfn.org/...dpost&p=1002366
http://www.msfn.org/...dpost&p=1028206
http://www.msfn.org/...dpost&p=1029243

It SEEMS as if you may have misinterpreted my post comment based upon the content of yours. Please be so kind as to not take such offense. Personally, I admire your expertise and have learned a few things from you and thank you for it.

Until such time I actually encounter Windows 8 "hands on" I guess I'll just bow out.

Someday the tyrants will be unthroned... Jason "Jay" Chasteen; RIP, bro!

Posted Image


#2229
Formfiller

Formfiller

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 482 posts
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag
This thread just derailed since it got moved.

Good job.

#2230
HalloweenDocument12

HalloweenDocument12

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 118 posts
  • OS:Windows 7 x64
  • Country: Country Flag
Maybe some new material is needed. How about a little discussed venture: the retiring of Hotmail and rolling the assets into Outlook.com? Even if it is objectively better, why destroy the legendary Hotmail branding? It's amazing how strong Hotmail continued to be given how each of the last half dozen interface revisions was worse than what proceeded it. Microsoft's "hide the buttons" flat look seen in Office 2013 started here.

Hotmail

Outlook.com

Outlook.com looks like yet another Hotmail interface revision, so why the rename? It's not like Outlook is well known outside of business, especially since the killing of Outlook Express in 2006, and both Outlook and OE, where known, are strongly associated with local software. Outlook.com looks like neither but bears a striking resemblance to what Hotmail has become the past few years.

Maybe at least they'll fix it so that the delete button doesn't move around depending on which folder you're in. It's been years and I still can't find it without effort. In fact, pretty much all the buttons rearrange with each different view.

I think this may surprise some, but if Gmail ever caught up to Hotmail and Yahoo! it happened in the past few months:

Email and webmail statistics

As the article mentions, it's likely that Gmail was able to catch up by forcing Gmail registration on Android devices. Gmail is also a popular authentication mechanism. It's probably more prevalent in this area than Passport and OpenID. Facebook is an even bigger authenticator, though.

#2231
HalloweenDocument12

HalloweenDocument12

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 118 posts
  • OS:Windows 7 x64
  • Country: Country Flag
There's also the shutting down of MSN Messenger and rolling everything into Skype. Why bother? Why not just let MSN die a slow death like ICQ did? The way they're doing it is probably more expensive than the slow death method, and the remaining users, estimated to be about 30% of MSN's peak, are likely the lowest value assuming Microsoft is looking for people who are tech hip and have disposable income. Furthermore, I'm pretty sure most of those remaining users are in China because Microsoft is keeping the service active there.

I really don't think people are going to start buying Skype credits just because they were forced over from MSN. It's really confusing, too, since they're doing this at the same time as the Outlook.com move. You can sign into Skype with your MSN ID, but it's going to be @outlook.com now or soon instead of @hotmail.com (or @msn.com or @passport.com assuming those still work).

Edit: I forgot until after this posting that AOL had more or less rolled ICQ into AIM after its acquisition so the comparison isn't so great. However, IM was still very much "in" when this was done and was probably at its peak, so the landscape was much different.

Edited by HalloweenDocument12, 12 March 2013 - 02:14 PM.


#2232
CharlotteTheHarlot

CharlotteTheHarlot

    MSFN Master

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,054 posts
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag

- sympathy snip -

Rick clearly just forgot the sarc tag there. :lol:

Or maybe he was referring to my handle here. There are couple of better songs on the 1st Iron Maiden album. I tried for both Phantom Of The Opera and Prowler but I believe they were already taken.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#2233
JorgeA

JorgeA

    FORMAT B: /V /S

  • MSFN Sponsor
  • 3,150 posts
  • OS:Vista Home Premium x64
  • Country: Country Flag

This thread just derailed since it got moved.

Good job.

Yeah, at the very least the move caused a hiccup in the discussion as some people dropped out in anger and others saw that the thread was locked (if only for a few hours, as it turned out).

Most (AFAIK) of those who dropped out in anger are now back. With any luck, the discussion will slowly keep getting back on track. Just before typing this, I saw that we had 26 people reading the thread. :thumbup EDIT: 37 after submitting this post. :thumbup :thumbup (of course, not specifically because I posted, but because people decided to come see what's up)

And then OTOH, spring is in the air and the weather outside's getting nice. :)

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA, 12 March 2013 - 03:50 PM.


#2234
CharlotteTheHarlot

CharlotteTheHarlot

    MSFN Master

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,054 posts
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag

Interesting thread - (see last post).
www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1112185-msfn-forumite-calls-neowin-fanboy-central/

One wonders why there's an affiliation on our Main Forum page when clearly RyanVM is affiliated... Even Wincert is more useful.

(apologies for interjection - stumbledupon)


Didn't read that page fully? Seems they don't like us much, especially "Charlotte". I had done a Google

msfn site:neowin.net
to show another user how "useful" they now are (not very). Doing the reverse yields a lot as well. My point being, since "Charlotte" popped on them about being "Windows 8 Fanboys", I thought I would chirp in about it. Funny, they look to US for Win8 "fixes" too, not to mention MANY other tools, tips, (etc). Seems our website is NOT to be discussed over there (note the LAST post and topic LOCKED). :w00t:

Yeah, FormFiller mentioned it back around Post #1722. I would have brought that thread up back in October if it had kept on going but a moderator over there locked it up quickly. I think one of them thought they were being clever trying to flush out my NeoWin handle. :lol:

Note that around that same time one of the mods here politely and correctly asked us to stop using that term so we all made this "concession" because we really don't want to stoop way down to their very low level ( although everyone using that phrase is really only referring to that vocal minority of children anyway, not the entire NeoWin site obviously ).

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#2235
JorgeA

JorgeA

    FORMAT B: /V /S

  • MSFN Sponsor
  • 3,150 posts
  • OS:Vista Home Premium x64
  • Country: Country Flag
An Ars Technica reviewer isn't bowled over by the touch feature in a new Windows 8 Ultrabook:

Practically speaking, it's hard to get used to integrating the touch screen into a work flow, especially when the touchpad, buttons, and even Lenovo's characteristic touchpoint are within closer reach than the screen. These aspects are just easier to use for the relatively small desktop elements (moving, resizing, closing windows, opening applications). The only time I felt myself compelled to swipe was when waking up the computer and needing to get through the lock screen, which needs to be swiped or pulled away. The gesture is easier with a swipe, but so long as I'm not dealing with the metro interface, the existence of the touch screen has no bearing on my use.

And, echoing something we've pointed out before, the additional hardware cost for touch capability is brought into question:

The Ugly

Touch premium cost is a little hard to stomach when it has no compelling use case

Once again (and again, as we've said here before), the OEM shows that it has a better handle than does MSFT on end users' needs and preferences, by including its own Start Menu replacement. :thumbup

Posted Image

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA, 12 March 2013 - 05:11 PM.


#2236
JorgeA

JorgeA

    FORMAT B: /V /S

  • MSFN Sponsor
  • 3,150 posts
  • OS:Vista Home Premium x64
  • Country: Country Flag
Now for more bad news (but a ray of hope) for Windows RT:

As currently conceived, Windows RT is a lemon, and users are avoiding it in droves.

But I'm not sure it has to be that way. With a few small changes, Windows RT could make sense, just perhaps not the way Microsoft intended.

Although I've argued on these pages that Microsoft should provide an official method for installing arbitrary apps, including desktop apps, on Windows RT, I think it's clear that there are some markets where the lock down isn't a hindrance, but rather a feature. Corporate desktops and kiosk machines, for example, can both make good use of these restrictions—often they're the kind of restrictions that administrators will impose anyway.

(emphasis in original)

The writer also suggests including Outlook among the applications that can be installed on the crippled RT desktop mode. As we know, however, MSFT is making a big push for cloud computing, so allowing a full-blown, local version of Outlook on these devices would mean changing course for them. Not that that would be such a bad idea...

--JorgeA

#2237
TELVM

TELVM

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 293 posts
  • OS:Windows 7 x64
  • Country: Country Flag
Superb article (in superb blog):

End of the Windows eXPerience: Windows 8 is not my idea

#2238
JorgeA

JorgeA

    FORMAT B: /V /S

  • MSFN Sponsor
  • 3,150 posts
  • OS:Vista Home Premium x64
  • Country: Country Flag

How about a little discussed venture: the retiring of Hotmail and rolling the assets into Outlook.com? Even if it is objectively better, why destroy the legendary Hotmail branding? It's amazing how strong Hotmail continued to be given how each of the last half dozen interface revisions was worse than what proceeded it. Microsoft's "hide the buttons" flat look seen in Office 2013 started here.

That was an interesting post, thanks!

Hotmail

Outlook.com

I can only guess that the idea is that users want to do LESS with their e-mail rather than MORE :wacko: , "therefore" there's no point in leaving visible more buttons, menus and other function options.

Outlook.com looks like yet another Hotmail interface revision, so why the rename? It's not like Outlook is well known outside of business, especially since the killing of Outlook Express in 2006, and both Outlook and OE, where known, are strongly associated with local software. Outlook.com looks like neither but bears a striking resemblance to what Hotmail has become the past few years.

Microsoft's naming policies seem to run in overlapping cycles. First there's an explosion of different names for every service, then they try to bring everything together under one umbrella (remember Windows Live?), meanwhile other areas are sprouting new names and then they try to lasso all of those. It's hard to keep track of all the changes back and forth. Wish they would leave it alone already.

Maybe at least they'll fix it so that the delete button doesn't move around depending on which folder you're in. It's been years and I still can't find it without effort. In fact, pretty much all the buttons rearrange with each different view.

I have no experience with their cloud e-mail services, so I didn't know about this. Unbelievable!

As the article mentions, it's likely that Gmail was able to catch up by forcing Gmail registration on Android devices. Gmail is also a popular authentication mechanism. It's probably more prevalent in this area than Passport and OpenID. Facebook is an even bigger authenticator, though.

Wow, that's the first time I've heard of Passport in years. Had no idea it was still around.

Matter of fact, back when MSFT first tried to implement this was the first time I considered weaning myself off Windows and dual-booting Linux. Never did get around to it (although at the time I did buy a boxed SuSE Linux to install alongside my Windows 98 machine). It sounded to me like a move to control/manage commercial transactions on the Internet. No, thank you!!

--JorgeA

#2239
CharlotteTheHarlot

CharlotteTheHarlot

    MSFN Master

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,054 posts
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag

Superb article (in superb blog):

End of the Windows eXPerience: Windows 8 is not my idea

Yes it is. And it is from one of our very own friends here, XpClient. :thumbup

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#2240
HalloweenDocument12

HalloweenDocument12

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 118 posts
  • OS:Windows 7 x64
  • Country: Country Flag

Wow, that's the first time I've heard of Passport in years. Had no idea it was still around.


It is, but my terminology is old. Same with MSN Messenger. It's been Live Messenger for years but I still call it MSN messenger. I had to look it up. Apparently it's called "Microsoft account" (lowercase 'a'), which is new to me, and previously "Windows Live ID" which I do recall. The infrastructure is still used for XBox Live and I think the Windows Phone store and was used for Zune, which I think uses the same basic store structure.

#2241
TELVM

TELVM

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 293 posts
  • OS:Windows 7 x64
  • Country: Country Flag

Superb article (in superb blog):

End of the Windows eXPerience: Windows 8 is not my idea

Yes it is. And it is from one of our very own friends here, XpClient. :thumbup


I take my hat off to XpClient then Posted Image .

#2242
JorgeA

JorgeA

    FORMAT B: /V /S

  • MSFN Sponsor
  • 3,150 posts
  • OS:Vista Home Premium x64
  • Country: Country Flag

Superb article (in superb blog):

End of the Windows eXPerience: Windows 8 is not my idea

Yes, that's a pretty good piece, even if I don't agree with all of his points (the XP Start Menu has never made sense to me, and I find the ways that Vista handles Windows Updates, both manual and automatic, to be much more intuitive). And going Mac is somewhat puzzling if the idea is to maintain maximum flexibility in your computing; I'd much sooner go Linux.

Needless to say, I do totally agree with his view of Windows 8. :puke:

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA, 12 March 2013 - 10:32 PM.


#2243
jaclaz

jaclaz

    The Finder

  • Developer
  • 14,390 posts
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag

Once again (and again, as we've said here before), the OEM shows that it has a better handle than does MSFT on end users' needs and preferences, by including its own Start Menu replacement. :thumbup

The issue here is greater than you may think, i.e. you just found the tip of the iceberg.

As I see it, we have (had) an "unified" approach since win95's times.

If you had at home a Windows 95 PC and got to work and found a NT4 or 2K or XP machine, you could still start the programs the same way.
If you went to another person's office/home and needed to use his/her PC you would have needed NOT to learn anything "new", you would be before a "same" or "very similar to" interface to the one you are familiar with.
Kids getting out of school would find in the office, at their first job an interface very similarly looking to the one they have used during their studies.

Within limits the changes introduced with Vista :ph34r: and 7 were very marginal.

The good Linux guys with the KDE and to a much bigger extent with the (terrible IMHO) Gnome desktops did - possibly in the attempt to facilitate the use of Linux by the "MS customers" - simply mocked up a fake XP interface (BTW dumping the actual good and innovative interfaces they had and still have but that represent a minority).
A not-so-old (say) Ubuntu version looks a lot like an XP, most recent ones have increased the toyish look and changed look to resemble more closely the Mac's.
And there are distro's that even try/tied to replicate exactly the XP or Vista :ph34r: looks, like ylmf/StartOS:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StartOS

So, if every OEM will make his own "new Start menu" they will effectively create a number of different interfaces, and the above seen continuity of usage paradigm will be broken anyway.

Please note how the idea of the good MS guys (though completely flawed in practice) was actually to assure a (new) same interface/usage paradigm on any device. :whistle:

jaclaz

#2244
HalloweenDocument12

HalloweenDocument12

    Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 118 posts
  • OS:Windows 7 x64
  • Country: Country Flag
Linux has its own tiling window managers reminiscent of Windows 1 or 8:

xmonad
Spoiler


ion
Spoiler


dwm
Spoiler


I think this is why some Linux users seem to like Windows 8 more than previous versions.

Linux has been attempting to gain users by imitating the Windows interface since the 90s:

fvwm95
Spoiler


Before this there was CDE, a commercial product of Sun, HP, IBM, and USL (Bell Labs), which, due to IBM's influence, imitated the Windows 2.x / OS/2 Workplace Shell interface:

CDE 1.x
Spoiler


KDE licensing politics aside, GNOME basically originated as a replacement for fvwm95 and imitated Windows down to the blue background:

GNOME 1.0
Spoiler


Edit: image embedding isn't exactly graceful. I suggest right-clicking and selecting "view image in new tab/window" or a similarly labeled option in your browser.

Edited by HalloweenDocument12, 13 March 2013 - 10:31 AM.


#2245
JorgeA

JorgeA

    FORMAT B: /V /S

  • MSFN Sponsor
  • 3,150 posts
  • OS:Vista Home Premium x64
  • Country: Country Flag
Ouch!

Life in the Windows Phone 8 shanty town

Switching from Android to Windows Phone 8 seems just about the worst decision that I have ever made in my entire tech life. It's sort of like trading a boring but solid marriage for a great one-night stand that has turned into a bad relationship not much further down the road.

--JorgeA

#2246
JorgeA

JorgeA

    FORMAT B: /V /S

  • MSFN Sponsor
  • 3,150 posts
  • OS:Vista Home Premium x64
  • Country: Country Flag

Linux has its own tiling window managers reminiscent of Windows 1 or 8:

That was an extremely cool rundown, thanks!

My favorite (not surprisingly) would be fvwm95. What's the closest to it nowadays in the Linux world? I'm talking of course about a Windows-like Linux start menu.

I've been flirting with Zorin OS, which seeks to emulate the Windows look-and-feel, but I am not altogether happy with the grainy appearance of the menu, window frames, and other elements where there are extensive blank areas. There's a Windows 7-style window theme available, but at best it mimics the crude Aero Basic look rather than Aero Glass. Under Windows, the same kinds of areas usually look very sharp. This graininess seems to hold for every flavor of Linux I've tried except for Netrunner, which also has sharp-looking graphics.

--JorgeA

#2247
JorgeA

JorgeA

    FORMAT B: /V /S

  • MSFN Sponsor
  • 3,150 posts
  • OS:Vista Home Premium x64
  • Country: Country Flag
We saw similar headlines last week, but this article provides some additional interesting points:

Four months in: Windows 8 adoption is almost at a standstill


Windows 8′s nonexistent growth is mirrored by the Windows 8 Store, where the number of apps — as tracked by MetroStore Scanner — now sits at 44,650. This is up by around 4,000 since the beginning of February — and a similar gain of around 4,000 was seen in January. A 10% growth rate might sound all right, but it’s very worrying that it isn’t accelerating. If the Windows 8 Store grows by 4,000 apps per month, then we’ll be well into 2014 before the 100,000 threshold is crossed.


At this point, it isn’t entirely clear how Microsoft intends to spur the adoption of Windows 8. It’s a bitter pill to swallow, but Windows Vista actually enjoyed faster growth than Windows 8 — and we know all too well how the Vista story played out. Despite selling Windows 8 at a massively discounted price of $40 for three months (it’s now $200), and sales boosts from Black Friday and Christmas, it’s clear that Windows 8 has failed to take off.

--JorgeA

#2248
JorgeA

JorgeA

    FORMAT B: /V /S

  • MSFN Sponsor
  • 3,150 posts
  • OS:Vista Home Premium x64
  • Country: Country Flag
The headline says it all:

Microsoft's Windows 8 turning off PC buyers

I'm not sure that we linked to this one before.

Microsoft's (MSFT) Windows 8 was supposed to spark an increase in personal computer sales. Instead, the PC industry is poised to contract for the second year in a row. And Windows 8 actually could be hurting PC sales.


"The problem (with touch-screen PCs) is the price points are high," IDC analyst Bob O'Donnell told IBD. "And Microsoft has created the impression that you have to have touch (to use Windows 8)."

That's led to a scenario where consumers don't want to buy Windows 8 PCs without touch-screens and are waiting for the machines with touch to come down in price. So, in the end, consumers stick with the PCs they already have, O'Donnell says.

And the people who do buy the non-touch Windows 8 PCs often are disappointed with the experience.


Microsoft might decide to add the option to boot right to the traditional desktop with its first set of Win 8 software updates this fall. "It would be very smart of them to make that option available," O'Donnell said.

It likely will be easier for Microsoft to backtrack on the Win 8 interface now that the executive responsible for it, Steven Sinofsky, is no longer working at the company. Sinofsky was forced out in November, two weeks after Windows 8 was released.

--JorgeA

#2249
JorgeA

JorgeA

    FORMAT B: /V /S

  • MSFN Sponsor
  • 3,150 posts
  • OS:Vista Home Premium x64
  • Country: Country Flag

The issue here is greater than you may think, i.e. you just found the tip of the iceberg.

You're right, the problems run much deeper. And it is ironic that by trying to create a unified experience, Microsoft is ending up creating more of a fragmented, discombobulated experience. The root of the problem IMO is that they already did have a unified experience for a certain type of machine, but then they tried to create a new one that would extend to different kinds of machines. Sorry Steve B., but a motorcycle just isn't the same as a car, although they do operate on the same basic idea.

--JorgeA

#2250
jaclaz

jaclaz

    The Finder

  • Developer
  • 14,390 posts
  • OS:none specified
  • Country: Country Flag


The issue here is greater than you may think, i.e. you just found the tip of the iceberg.

You're right, the problems run much deeper. And it is ironic that by trying to create a unified experience, Microsoft is ending up creating more of a fragmented, discombobulated experience. The root of the problem IMO is that they already did have a unified experience for a certain type of machine, but then they tried to create a new one that would extend to different kinds of machines. Sorry Steve B., but a motorcycle just isn't the same as a car, although they do operate on the same basic idea.

--JorgeA

Yes and no.

I see it more about the endless attempts to change the QWERTY (or AZERTY) keyboard layout.
As you might know there are several (mostly anecdotal) explanations why you have before you a keyboard with letters set in what seems (and partially is) assembled casually with keys in a "random" order.
As well there are even more vague "proofs" about the Dvorak layout being more efficient or faster.
There were also some attempts - pointed out as an example in the book I earlier cited - The psychology of everyday things - to put keys in alphabetic order (that obviously failed).

If you ever used a GUI like blackbox, you would see how it represents (as I see it) an evolution, while you still have (if you want) the program bar at the bottom, and even the start button, you do not need to travel with the mouse to lower left corner to "start" something, you instead right-click *anywhere* and get the same menu/choices.

But still,it never took.

Rolling up windows are a much faster (and practical) way to work with more than one window in several cases, yet AFAIK the feature never went "upstream".
Example:
http://www.actualtoo...ures/rollup.php

If you want (or need to run) quickly a command line app/command, there is nothing (still IMHO) as useful as the mis-known (and actually still in development) Winqconsole:
http://sourceforge.n...ts/winqconsole/
or Windows Quake Console, if you think at the usage paradigm it is "natural" and "obvious", since you are going to use the keyboard anyway, to open it through the keyboard and to not close it but rather toggle it with the same keys combo into "rolled up" mode.

But please consider how these all represent "added" features to the "same" base actions that *every* desktop has in common, and not "replacements", just like a keyboard with the added "multimedia" buttons or the "windows" keys mantain the same exact QWERTY placement keys and adds a few keys.

jaclaz




1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users



How to remove advertisement from MSFN