[JorgeA]

MagicAndre1981, on 27 March 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

Win8 makes much more fun after installing and configuring ClassicShell.

MagicAndre,

Oh yeah, no question about it. I'm using Start Menu X, with a comparable (that is, much more tolerable) experience.

Does ClassicShell remember and list your most frequently used programs?

Neither ClassicShell nor Start Menu X look anything like like the Vista/Win7 Start Menu. I'm still hoping that somebody will replicate the "look and feel" of the real Start Menu, like Vistart but without its drawbacks. We might call it a "no compromises" Start Menu.

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

cyberpyr8, on 26 March 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

Why is this video not playing the first time you start up Windows 8? I think that they need to do something like this for the final release. Sort of like the XP first time startup. I have actually been running Mint Linux on my laptop with a Win7 VM on to of it because I was so frustrated with Win8. I may load it up again and give it another try.

http://windows.micro...arted?page=vid2

cyberpyr8,

That would help, for sure. On startup, Windows 98 has a "Welcome to Windows 98" that invites the user to explore the OS's features and innovations. I've never taken it off my Win98 machines, as I like the cool music that plays as the resident programs load.

And Vista has a Welcome Center, which also shows on startup and among other things has a place to click if the user wants to learn what's new in that OS. Given the radical changes in Windows 8, Microsoft would be crazy not to include something like this in the RTM.

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

Tripredacus, on 26 March 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

I was thinking of a different angle for Win8 yesterday. I was at a family gathering and we talked about tablets in the Enterprise. Almost no companies are allowing them into the corporate network, but that could actually change with Windows 8. The only exception would be WOA, which I heard can't be used to join a domain. But again that's just tablets, where I think Win8 would be just fine.

Tripredacus,

If I understand it, MS's intention is to offer only WOA for tablets, no? And it's been announced that WOA will offer no desktop or desktop applications, a purely Metro experience. (In any case, I can't imagine launching desktop programs or clicking on itty-bitty arrows on the Office ribbon with a finger on a tiny tablet screen.) If that's the case, and WOA devices can't join a domain, then they would be no better off than iPads and Android tablets when it comes to acceptance in the Enterprise environment.

Windows 8 is said to be a fine OS for tablets -- I'll take people's word for it, I have zero interest in using a tablet. But If the above is true, then when it comes to tablets there's nothing particular to recommend Win8 over the existing choices.

I guess they might bring back Intel-based tablets, with suitable Metrofied applications. Maybe that's the angle?

Please do correct me if I'm wrong.

--JorgeA

This post has been edited by JorgeA: 27 March 2012 - 09:10 AM

[JorgeA]

jaclaz, on 25 March 2012 - 12:26 PM, said:

I'll risk going OT (actually going OT ) to post a snippet I really liked, but unrelated as being of a much more "generic" nature:

jaclaz,

It certainly was OT , but interesting nonetheless.

I also liked this other thing the guy said:

Quote

the world has developed in such a direction that you can't get the bandwidth without swallowing an overdose of unnecessary sophistication first.

[emphasis added]

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

Joseph_sw, on 25 March 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

M$ definetely going overboard with their "Forced-Obselescene Plan"

Joseph,

Interesting point. No doubt the MS folks have wondered what it might do for sales to Metrofy everything so that customers have to buy new versions of all their favorite programs.

OTOH, the risk is that sales will plummet rather than soar, as the market rebels and users either stick with what they've got or switch to Linux or some other stabler, less grasping platform. Can you say, LibreOffice?

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

This newspaper headline was about something else entirely, but I couldn't help but think that it was somehow appropriate to our discussion:

Metro derailed by culture of complacence, incompetence, lack of diversity

--JorgeA

[CoffeeFiend]

Joseph_sw, on 25 March 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

M$ definetely going overboard with their "Forced-Obselescene Plan"

Thankfully some people already figured out how to make programs compiled with the latest VC++ work on XP & 2003.

Then again I don't see anyone moving to VS 11 in the near future, much less using the .NET framework 4.5 which brings so little besides incompatibility, the usual price tag and an overly depressing gray theme wtih CAPS.

[JorgeA]

Paul Thurrott takes another step back from Windows 8 cheerleading:

Quote

Those of us who use traditional PCs - -which today is roughly described as "everybody" -- will stick primarily to the desktop environment, with its amazing application availability, advanced multitasking, support for large displays, and the like. Because of the way Windows 8 is designed, these users will, however, need to deal with the Metro environment whether they want to or not: Key system-level features such as the new Start experience, the new Back experience, the new Switcher task-switching interface, the Charms bar, notifications (which arrive as both full-screen experiences and flyover toasts), Snap (the side-by-side app screen sharing functionality), Search, Settings, and probably more, are all served up by Metro, and often in a very jarring fashion.

I'm glad to see that the more he uses Win8, the more balanced and better aware of the new OS's drawbacks that his approach has become. Let's hope the trend continues!

--JorgeA

[Tripredacus]

A "whether you like it or not" type of approach only works when there is one option.

[MagicAndre1981]

ClassicShell 3.5 is now out which supports Win8 CP:

http://sourceforge.n...sicshell/files/

[JorgeA]

MagicAndre1981, on 31 March 2012 - 03:43 PM, said:

ClassicShell 3.5 is now out which supports Win8 CP:

In the screenshot you showed a few posts back, the start menu appears to have a Metro-style look (typeface and background). Is it possible in the newest ClassicShell to make it look like the regular Start Menu?

Just trying to limit exposure to Metro ugliness as much as possible!

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

Tripredacus, on 29 March 2012 - 08:05 AM, said:

A "whether you like it or not" type of approach only works when there is one option.

Well put!

--JorgeA

[MagicAndre1981]

JorgeA, on 31 March 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

In the screenshot you showed a few posts back, the start menu appears to have a Metro-style look (typeface and background). Is it possible in the newest ClassicShell to make it look like the regular Start Menu?

yes, select the "Vista Aero Skin" in the ClassicShell options.

[JorgeA]

MagicAndre1981, on 31 March 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

JorgeA, on 31 March 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

In the screenshot you showed a few posts back, the start menu appears to have a Metro-style look (typeface and background). Is it possible in the newest ClassicShell to make it look like the regular Start Menu?

yes, select the "Vista Aero Skin" in the ClassicShell options.

Cool, thanks!

I actually like the way that the Vista/Win7 menu works, whereas ClassicShell is more like the way Windows 98 works. But that's fine, too -- either of them is way better than Metro Start.

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

CoffeeFiend, on 27 March 2012 - 09:18 PM, said:

Joseph_sw, on 25 March 2012 - 08:28 PM, said:

M$ definetely going overboard with their "Forced-Obselescene Plan"

Thankfully some people already figured out how to make programs compiled with the latest VC++ work on XP & 2003.

Then again I don't see anyone moving to VS 11 in the near future, much less using the .NET framework 4.5 which brings so little besides incompatibility, the usual price tag and an overly depressing gray theme wtih CAPS.

I just got a chance to read the linked article, and although I'm no expert in these matters I do see where the "forced obsolescence" angle comes in:

Quote

There is another new roadblock that Microsoft has put in our way. Previous to VC 11, we could override both the minimum operating system and subsystem version numbers using a linker command line option. However in VC 11, they only allow specification of 6.0 (Vista) as a minimum. That means there is NO way to write the necessary operating and subsystem versions to the built binary without a separate post-build tool.

The workaround sounds pretty imaginative, and I'm glad that people are finding ways not to get railroaded into using OS's they don't want. Thanks for the link.

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

Microsoft is reportedly holding fast to its anti-Start Orb position: http://www.neowin.ne...n-for-windows-8

There were 212 comments already when I loaded the page. If the folks at MS have any marketing sense at all, as the deadline approaches they will suddenly let the Start Orb and Menu come back to life, and many people will be so relieved and delighted that they'll go out and pre-order Windows 8.

--JorgeA

This post has been edited by JorgeA: 01 April 2012 - 12:08 AM

[CoffeeFiend]

It's not so much the lack of the orb that's a problem for me (I don't really care if it's there or not -- hot corners suck though), it's all the Metro garbage and that atrocious start screen that is. And since there won't be a way to disable that then we'll stay with Win7 for the foreseeable future.

Hopefully Win9 won't be such rubbish. Otherwise it's adiós Windows, and I really mean it. MS neglected a LOT of stuff in the latest versions of Windows, and even made a lot of things quite annoying but overall it was still better than the previous version. Not so this time -- the cons FAR outweigh the very short list of pros.

The next computer I'm buying will be a Mac regardless.

[tomasz86]

[CoffeeFiend]

All that I see is one sweaty, desperate, poorly dressed bald guy who thinks he's cool (ala developers, developers, developers which people are still laughing at) who's willing to sacrifice their main product in order to get a small share of the mobile market (something where they've always failed hard). Making Windows suck is all it'll accomplish (and backlash, driving people to other OS'es, etc). He should have been fired years ago. The guy's embarrassing to watch and he's making a lot of bad choices for the company too.

[JorgeA]

CoffeeFiend, on 01 April 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

All that I see is one sweaty, desperate, poorly dressed bald guy who thinks he's cool (ala developers, developers, developers which people are still laughing at) who's willing to sacrifice their main product in order to get a small share of the mobile market (something where they've always failed hard). Making Windows suck is all it'll accomplish (and backlash, driving people to other OS'es, etc). He should have been fired years ago. The guy's embarrassing to watch and he's making a lot of bad choices for the company too.

+1 on everything you said.

BTW, as a Win98 fan I couldn't help but notice what looks like the Windows 98 logo in the background on that video...

--JorgeA