[JorgeA]

@CharlotteTheHarlot
@Formfiller

Wow, that's quite a back-and-forth you've had today. My hat's off to you!

Now I will go and read some of the links, and with any luck will have something substantial to add...

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

PC World reviews the Surface Pro:

Microsoft Surface Pro hands-on impressions from CES

After showering copious derision on the Surface RT (maybe predictions that ARM will take over the computing world are premature), the author reports that the 64GB Surface will sell for $900 and the 128GB version for $1000, which is in line with what we've heard before:

Quote

will looks matter in an ultra-portable market that’s already considered to be priced too high?

Stay tuned. Get ready. The PC landscape is more interesting than it’s been in more than 10 years, and Surface Pro can tell us so, so much about what consumers want—and are willing to spend—in a new Windows 8 hybrid.

Anybody care to hazard a guess?

--JorgeA

[MagicAndre1981]

I don't think that the PC landscape is more interesting.

What I really hate, and why I never buy Win8 tablet, is the 16:9 format



look how terrible this is when you rotate the device a bit.

And I also hate the fact that it scrolls from left to right and not from top to bottom (iPad way). I find the Win8 way absolutely terrible.

[JorgeA]

Oh, that's weird. I wonder what the flaw is -- what the guy in the photo did to get the tablet to behave that way.

Incidentally, I was back at my favorite electronics retailer again today, and once again (as usual since Windows 8 came out) the PC section was a ghost town.

For the first time, I saw them displaying the Win8 Desktop on one computer, instead of that hideous Start Screen. It was the first laptop that customers would see as they approach the computer department. Maybe they're discovering that customers are NOT interested in Metro.

I spent a few minutes exploring one laptop that interested me for a Windows 7 installation. In the barely five minutes that I stood there, a sales clerk and then the store manager came around to ask if they could be of assistance. (This was a new experience at that store, they must be very eager to make a PC sale.) I was tempted to suggest to the manager that, as an experiment, for one week they hide all those Metro start screens and show only the actual Desktops on their display models, and see what happens to their computer sales.

But then I thought: why would I want to help sell Win8 systems??

--JorgeA

This post has been edited by JorgeA: 12 January 2013 - 06:42 PM

[JorgeA]

I'm not sure if we've covered this topic on this thread already, but just in case, here goes -- another thing Windows 8 won't do that Windows 7 does:

Quote

Et Tu, Balmer?

http://thedigitallif...with-windows-8/

When will the Echo support Windows 8?
The Echo is compatible with Windows 7 today. Microsoft changed some things in Windows 8 that affect all extenders except the Xbox 360 when used with Windows 8.

--JorgeA

[CharlotteTheHarlot]

JorgeA, on 12 January 2013 - 06:41 PM, said:

Oh, that's weird. I wonder what the flaw is -- what the guy in the photo did to get the tablet to behave that way.

It is most likely by design, now stop complaining about innovation you h8er!

My favorite part in that photo is ...

JorgeA, on 12 January 2013 - 06:41 PM, said:

But then I thought: why would I want to help sell Win8 systems??

Excellent thinking!

[Joseph_sw]

CharlotteTheHarlot, on 13 January 2013 - 04:37 AM, said:

My favorite part in that photo is ...

it seems Microsoft knew that fingerprints would be annoying on touchscreen, so Microsoft made the cleaning guide.

Unlike Apple that hinted that regular cleaning of touchscren would diminish the screen quality,
Microsoft however, suggests that users should cleans the touchscreen frequently.

[jaclaz]

...and strangely enough the start-up cited her:
http://www.msfn.org/...80#entry1001280
has survived more than 6 months

jaclaz

[CharlotteTheHarlot]

Joseph_sw, on 13 January 2013 - 11:14 PM, said:

it seems Microsoft knew that fingerprints would be annoying on touchscreen, so Microsoft made the cleaning guide.

Unlike Apple that hinted that regular cleaning of touchscren would diminish the screen quality,
Microsoft however, suggests that users should cleans the touchscreen frequently.

I don't know about the Surface, but most LCD's are vulnerable ( flashback to Post #509 ) to pressure. It is also possible that they may have an anti-glare coating that will come off.

All in all I think I was correct in speculating that Microsoft has secretly bought stock in display manufacturers, cleaning supplies, and eyeglass makers. Go long on these stocks.

[Kelsenellenelvian]

Joseph_sw, on 13 January 2013 - 11:14 PM, said:

CharlotteTheHarlot, on 13 January 2013 - 04:37 AM, said:

My favorite part in that photo is ...

it seems Microsoft knew that fingerprints would be annoying on touchscreen, so Microsoft made the cleaning guide.

Unlike Apple that hinted that regular cleaning of touchscren would diminish the screen quality,
Microsoft however, suggests that users should cleans the touchscreen frequently.

WAIT! Hold the phone!

A guide on how to clean your touch device? P)*(&$#()*&@_*(&$_)@&

Where is the f***ing guide (I know they decided not to release one) on win 8?

[CharlotteTheHarlot]

It seems NeoWin has finally stopped celebrating the cherry picked Nokia statistics and realized something I noticed above in Post #1512 ...

CharlotteTheHarlot, on 11 January 2013 - 04:32 AM, said:

Samsung's record quarter: $8.3 billion profit, 63 million phones sold ( TechSpot 2013-01-10 )

Nokia's Lumia did 'better than expected' in Q4, 4.4 million units sold ( TechSpot 2013-01-10 )

Nokia sold 4.4m Lumia Windows Phones last quarter, "exceeded expectations" ( NeoWin 2013-01-10 )

The last headline is cherry-picked though, this is the quote about Nokia: "4.4 million Lumia smartphones were sold, along with 9.3 million Asha full-touch handsets and 2.2 million Symbian devices". ADDED: So Nokia sold 16 million phones total and the Lumias were a quarter of them. Unless I am mistaken, Microsoft is even losing marketshare just with Nokia! In other words, even if all other companies stopped making phones and only Nokia continued, they would still lose marketshare. Am I reading this correctly?

And that ends the Christmas silly season. It's all downhill for three more quarters. Meanwhile it looks like they are getting crushed by the others: "Samsung sold about 62 million handsets in the quarter, compared with Apple’s 45 million, according to estimates reported by Bloomberg." No breakdown on the Samsung numbers between Android or WP8 that I can find, but it must be microscopic.

The Microsoft thought process just doesn't add up. I have been trying to understand what they found in their spreadsheet projections that justifies turning the world upside-down with the Windows 8 fiasco and also the destruction of consumer value by forcing higher prices ( see next story ) with touchscreen madness. I just don't see what they saw. How could they even contemplate gaining any marketshare. It is far more likely they will gain nothing or even lose. This is starting to look like an Xbox gamble where "Windows" becomes the "console" but they never actually make any money except on the games ( Apps ). It looks similar to the Printer market where they only make profit on the ink and lock out other avenues of refills. More than a little coincidence I think.

Here are their two more realistic stories yesterday ...

Nokia's Asha range outselling Lumias 2:1 ( NeoWin 2013-01-13 )

Quote

The Lumia range of Windows phones are doing quite well for Nokia, having shipped 4.4 million units in the last quarter; but the range that's doing even better for Nokia is Asha, their low-end smart and featurephones for emerging markets have been selling like hotcakes.

Samsung: Over 100m Galaxy S series phones sold so far ( NeoWin 2013-01-14 )

Quote

By comparison, Nokia revealed a few days ago that during the last quarter, it sold a total of 4.4m Lumia handsets across its entire available range of Windows Phones (510, 610, 710, 800, 810, 820, 900 and 920) – which puts into perspective the challenge that both Nokia and Microsoft share in gaining ground on their mobile rivals.

Note that they still cannot bring themselves to actually mention that these Asha phones are non-WP8 phones, nor are the Symbian based handsets either. Well at least the NeoWin authors have finally gotten around to reading the articles they put up just a few days ago. Nokia WP8 phones cannot even compete with Nokia at the moment, let alone Apple or Samsung.

This begs the question I asked earlier, just how did Microsoft plan on penetrating the mobile market? What crazy bug is lurking in their Excel spreadsheet projections that convinced them that this was going to succeed? There must have been something really obvious, a slam dunk projection, to cause them to make this gigantic lurch destroying the "Windows" look and feel, and the brand itself in a reckless gamble that it would somehow attract us Windows veterans and n00bs into falling hopelessly head-over-heels in love with the phone interface. This is one of the great mysteries we are left to ponder.

[Tripredacus]

Joseph_sw, on 13 January 2013 - 11:14 PM, said:

it seems Microsoft knew that fingerprints would be annoying on touchscreen, so Microsoft made the cleaning guide.

Well that explains why we got a bunch of screen cleaning cloths in our Windows 8 promo kit.

[jaclaz]

Tripredacus, on 14 January 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

Well that explains why we got a bunch of screen cleaning cloths in our Windows 8 promo kit.

.... and I thought they were complimentary hankies for tears and sweat....



jaclaz

[JorgeA]

"Happy" Windows 8 customers over at the H-P Support Forum:

Quote

Im Done! HP needs to offer all new PC purchasers the option to switch out windows 8 for 7, at no cost.

What a load of junk windows 8 is, Ive lost so much work time with this new system. Big disappointment

Ive spent weeks now since Christmas trying to learn how to preform very basic tasks on my new HP that came with windows 8 installed. I have a few more days to decide if Im keeping or returning it. I cant decide if the trouble is my new HP P7-1490 is junk or is windows 8 really this frustrating & difficult to use. I've waisted so much time trying to read guides, tips, tricks & suggestions, anything that might make sense of this OS. If my HP is working correctly, then the problem is the installed OS 8.

I discovered this while searching for indications that H-P might consent to UPgrading new Win8 systems to Win7 at the buyer's request.

--JorgeA

[Win2k3EE]

Ups, if HP will consent the UPgrading from Win8 to Win7...then all the OEM dealers will consider that option and Microsoft will have two choices: make Service Pack 2 for Windows 7 as soon as possible, or even worst for their beloved Win8 - to make a Service Pack 1 with the start menu back where it belongs and split Windows in two different branches (as it should be): one for desktop/laptop and other for phone/tablet.

[Formfiller]

On the question what they saw with Windows 8... well, as you've said earlier Charlotte, Ballmer was willing to buy Yahoo for 44 billion dollars. That was because he was blinded by Google envy at that time. Now he has Apple-envy.

Envy makes Ballmer literally mad apparently.

This post has been edited by Formfiller: 15 January 2013 - 05:31 AM

[CharlotteTheHarlot]

A Preview of the Ubuntu Smartphone OS from CES ( Tom's Hardware 2013-01-14 )

Part of the tidal wave of phones and tablets that are coming. Let' see, iOS, Android, Blackberry, WP, Ubuntu, WebOS, and more. What exactly was Microsoft's plan again? Oh yeah, abuse their desktop monopoly and push Windows 8 onto it so that the users would magically fall in love with the interface and run out and by enough phones to crack 5% of this behemoth market. Are drugs legal up there in Washington?


Microsoft Surface sold fewer than 1 million units in Q4 2012 ( TechSpot 2013-01-14 )

UBS: Microsoft sold 1 million Surfaces last quarter ( NeoWin 2013-01-14 )

Tell Me Again How Surface Is the Tablet Consumers Really Want ( AllThingsD 2013-01-15 )

At NeoWin, the commenters are a marvel of cognitive dissonance. You gotta give them props for maintaining that optimism despite everything they hear. I almost feel sad. Almost. In fact their frayed nerves are on display in another thread ...


From The Forums: Our readers debating Windows 8 ( NeoWin 2013-01-14 )

The holy war continues though I sense a little less spring in the step of the MicroZealots. What is interesting is a reference to the commenter called "mdcdesign" ( see Post #1464 ) who claims responsibility variously for Longhorn, Metro and Aero, has accidentally led to another thread there with more posts by him. I'll be getting back to this when I get some free time. Follow that last link if you can't wait to see his brilliant insight into why Aero Glass was sacrificed.

EDIT: added link

This post has been edited by CharlotteTheHarlot: 15 January 2013 - 08:13 AM

[JorgeA]

Formfiller, on 15 January 2013 - 05:30 AM, said:

On the question what they saw with Windows 8... well, as you've said earlier Charlotte, Ballmer was willing to buy Yahoo for 44 billion dollars. That was because he was blinded by Google envy at that time. Now he has Apple-envy.

Envy makes Ballmer literally mad apparently.

That's interesting. So, instead of creating something new or playing to his company's own strengths, Ballmer is lurching left and then right, trying to imitate other companies' successes.

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

@CharlotteTheHarlot:

If I posted the following in the "Ways to get the Start Menu back" thread, I'd be violating my own rules, so I'm commenting on your latest post from there over here:

Quote

Start is back! ( The Verge 2013-01-14 )

Quote

Personally I’m disappointed by the people who are profiting off of those who have been incapable of adapting to the new paradigm.

It's dumbfounding (not to say disappointing, to borrow a word) how some folks seem to be incapable (to borrow another word) of understanding that "new" is not necessarily "better." Why should I "adapt" to something that I find worse?

And what's this business about "adapting," anyway -- are we to be viewed as little more than machines (like the Roomba) with no particular preferences, and which mindlessly and unquestioningly "adapt" to whatever new circumstances are framed around us?

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

Another tepid review of the Surface Pro:

Surface Pro: Even Microsoft’s own tablet
can’t solve Windows 8′s intrinsic flaws

Quote

As a concept — a mobile, all-in-one computing device — I still think the Surface Pro is a good idea (though I still think smartphones have the edge). I also think that Microsoft’s hardware engineers have done a fantastic job at trying to create a device that ameliorates Windows 8′s Jekyll & Hyde tendencies — it was really very cruel of the Microsoft execs to ask them to create a device that bridges the vast, paradigmatic chasm present in Windows 8.

In practice, at a starting price of $900 and a weight/aspect ratio that makes it almost impossible to use with one hand, I think you’d be better off buying a cheap Android tablet and a high-performance desktop PC — or perhaps just save up a little more cash and buy a transformer ultrabook.

(emphasis added)

--JorgeA

This post has been edited by JorgeA: 15 January 2013 - 10:48 AM