[tomasz86]

[JorgeA]

tomasz86,

Excellent graphic!

I wonder if I can turn that into my Windows 8 wallpaper...

--JorgeA

[tomasz86]

Haha, it's not mine I just found it somewhere in the Net.

This post has been edited by tomasz86: 16 February 2012 - 05:27 PM

[CoffeeFiend]

The flag was too familar a symbol for the Windows we know and love. So for the MS Bob 2012 Win8 they designed a new logo. It's like if they want to send a message: This isn't the Windows you like and expect so we've changed the logo to reflect that. Not only Win8 is awful, but now even its logo is. This things screams "mediocre".

[JorgeA]

CoffeeFiend, on 17 February 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

So for the MS Bob 2012 Win8

ROFL

I, too, feel like jumping out that window.

Here's another take on the new Win8 logo. Check out the comments by "TheDissolver" and "RobL777":

Quote

Multitasking multi-pane re-positionable screens is the "killer app" for this OS; Metro has no place on my desktop/laptop.

Quote

In 2016, they will change the name of the OS to Tiles.

Win8 might be the next New Coke. Note how the negative reception by a "small," "vocal" minority of tasters was actually the more accurate harbinger of the general public's reaction to the product. Oh, and how the company downplayed those negative opinions... Oh, and how the Coke chief said consumers would not have the choice of sticking with the classic, legacy, stale old boring square formulation...

EDIT: A commenter on the Ars Technica page, "Crackhead Johny," had the same New Coke take.

Luckily, now it looks like Extended Support for Vista will now last into 2017, and into 2020 for Windows 7. So I won't need to learn a new OS for another 8 years or so.

--JorgeA

This post has been edited by JorgeA: 18 February 2012 - 01:46 AM

[JorgeA]

Three more notes on Windows 8 (pre-Consumer Preview):

• If a Windows Update is available and you drill through the settings to see what updates are available, and then you click on the "more information" link, Metro (and not Desktop) Internet Explorer opens to the page. This means that, if you wish then to move on to other Web pages, you will do so in Metro IE, which runs without plugins and for which the security and privacy settings are unknown. This could have an impact on your browsing security and/or privacy. You can of course switch to Desktop IE, but that takes an additional action compared to the current state of affairs, where you can simply move on directly to wherever you want to go next.
  
• Speaking of Windows Updates, the Metro version of the update feature provides merely a general statement that updates are available, and the total size of the updates. There is no breakdown of what the updates are, or an explanation of what they are intended to do. Another step in the lobotomization of the computing experience.
  
• Finally, AllThingsD reports that the only desktop software that will run on Windows on ARM are certain Microsoft Office programs:

Quote

Sinofsky also said that the Windows-on-ARM machines will come with several Office apps — Word, PowerPoint, Excel and OneNote — that have been tuned to run in a very battery-efficient manner. But Sinofsky said that, although those applications will run in the traditional Windows desktop, they will be the only programs allowed to do so, other than components of Windows itself.

“There are no other compiled dekstop apps that are available,” Sinofsky told AllThingsD. All of the other apps for Windows on ARM will be the new-style “Metro” apps.

A glimpse into the future of computing?

--JorgeA

This post has been edited by JorgeA: 22 February 2012 - 01:48 AM

[JorgeA]

Another note:

I went to download Classic Shell for the purpose of testing the feature to restore a functional status bar in Internet Explorer 10 (desktop version). IE10's SmartScreen Filter prohibited the download, claiming that it was malware, and offered no choice to perform the download anyway.

The SmartScreen Filter for IE8 in Vista approved the download, as did the reputation function for Norton 360 v5. A N360 scan of the contents found nothing objectionable. Further scans with Malwarebytes Antimalware and with Spybot Search & Destroy indicated nothing suspicious about the Classic Shell file.

So the question is -- is IE10 a limited-functionality browser, whose opinions override everybody else's and permit no getting past its imperial edicts? Or is the IE10 filter so much better than anyone else's, that we should just accept its decisions?

Firefox 9.0.1 did allow the download, and scanned it at the end, no problem. However, FF did not inform me where it was downloading it to, and moreover the browser started to update itself without asking. I closed the update window; maybe that stopped the download THIS time.

So IE10 gets an F and Firefox 9 gets a D+. What is it with all this removal of both awareness and choice from the user??

--JorgeA

This post has been edited by JorgeA: 22 February 2012 - 01:21 PM

[CoffeeFiend]

Quote

There are no other compiled dekstop apps that are available,” Sinofsky told AllThingsD. All of the other apps for Windows on ARM will be the new-style “Metro” apps.

That's what I was saying earlier. Win8 on ARM is a Metro-only version of Windows -- and even then, Metro apps compiled with native x86 binaries (e.g. a C++/WinRT app) won't work either (not without recompiling for ARM specifically). So it offers absolutely nothing over an Android tablet or an iPad which both already have a vibrant market place, tons of devs, tons of apps, a far wider selection of tablets, etc. I mean, what's the point of Windows if it's without all the software that makes it useful in the first place, and also without all the drivers, without the backwards compatibility and basically everything else "regular old Windows" had going for it?

Honestly, it might as well be a Windows Phone 7 device -- one which can't actually phone. The interface is like what people would expect on such a device, you won't be surprised when you find out it's locked down much like Apple's iDevices, you don't expect a phone to run regular old Windows apps and so on. People would also know to avoid it and they'd be spared from wasting time with it and returning it later. Then again, I bet you can find plenty of decent entry-level laptops with a uncrippled Win7 today than what the average Win8 ARM tablet's going to cost when they'll be out in a year.

As for IE10 I honestly couldn't care less. I haven't been an IE user since 2003 or 2004 and couldn't be happier. Since I got rid of it we never caught malware of any kind, and the other browsers are overall: better featured, have better interfaces/usability, don't force you to update your OS to get the latest version, are faster for the most part (IE9 is still a dog according to the V8 benchmark, Peacekeeper benchmark, Kraken benchmark and others), etc. And most importantly for me they all have a large number of useful extensions and tools for different tasks ready to use. I only use IE as a last resort (the odd crappy website that uses ActiveX controls for example). It's no wonder IE's market share has been steadily declining for years. I don't see this trend reversing anytime soon either.

[JorgeA]

CoffeeFiend, on 22 February 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

I mean, what's the point of Windows if it's without all the software that makes it useful in the first place, and also without all the drivers, without the backwards compatibility and basically everything else "regular old Windows" had going for it?

Bingo!

Paul Thurrott made a similar point as you in Windows Weekly (click on the Audio link and go to about 57:20 till 59:00). Without desktop software, there's no particular reason to own a WOA tablet vs. an iPad. And Thurrott's a Windows 8 booster!

--JorgeA

[CoffeeFiend]

JorgeA, on 23 February 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

there's no particular reason to own a WOA tablet vs. an iPad

or an Android tablet, or even a BlackBerry PlayBook for that matter. All are better than a Win8 tablet, and most likely all will cost less too (except perhaps the iPad which might be about the same price). I'm considering buying a PlayBook this weekend in fact. $250 for a high quality 7" tablet, 32GB of storage, a high quality 1024x600 multi-touch LCD, 802.11n and Bluetooth, a nice fast dual core ARM CPU and 1GB of RAM, GPS, USB and HDMI ports, 2 decent cameras, it plays most HD video, etc. And yes, all BlackBerry apps, and now Android apps as well!

A Win8 WOA tablet with all of this (see MSI WindPad, ACER Iconia Tab, HP Slate, etc) would at the very least cost twice as much and I really don't see how it would be better in any way.

And this is coming from someone who has been a MS fanboy for over 2 decades (Win8 will seemingly put an end to that)

[belgianguy]

I just don't get what they are thinking in Redmond. I've been developing by using Microsoft tools for all of my young life (but have picked up Ubuntu/Eclipse/NetBeans along the way). Wasn't it Ballmer who yelled "Developers, developers, developers"?

I get why Microsoft is doing this. Mobile markets are flooding with iPads and Androids, and they needed to do something. Yet, instead of going with a sound strategy, they decided that desktop users and efficiency are second class citizens to tablets and touch.

I've developed with the Kinect SDK, I've developed with the Surface 2.0 SDK, I've developed with .NET 4.0's Touch SDK (WPF and XAML, what a waste of time in retrospect). While these human computer interactions sure have their uses in their specific context, they by no means are a better alternative for every action. Yet Metro does just that. I can't understand Microsoft is betting the farm on some stupid user interface gimmicks. While they probably see this as a way to leverage the flagship Windows platform as a last-ditch attempt to break into the phone/tablet market, in my eyes they did nothing else than 'infecting' something that was healthy before: Windows for Desktop. Now, Windows 8 tells you it's the Metro way or the highway. But when the highway allows for easier travel than the Metro way, I won't hesitate. Especially since backwards compatibility seems to be out of the window (pun intended), there should be even less friction to switch to another OS entirely or force those unconvinced to just sit out the Windows 8 disaster-in-progress.

How could they do this to their loyal userbase? What has gotten to them that their shills online representatives are pushing changes that are a net decrease in productivity and at best arrive at a draw in ideal circumstances? At the moment, to me, buying Windows 8 means paying to become less efficient, more constrained and having to navigate through a cluttered mess touch-based user interface with hardware (mouse and keyboard) that doesn't complement the software. Hardware that is capable of pixel-precision (you know, not suffering from the fat-finger problem), able to drag and drop over multiple monitors (let's see them do that by touch). While Touch and Kinect are interesting novelties, and shine in 'bursty' usage scenarios like games and entertainment (fatigue being the limiting factor), I don't see myself programming by touch, nor by Kinect. I absolutely hate what they have done. Synofski seems to be Microsoft's attempt at their own Steve Jobs, yet with twice the arrogance and none of the brilliance.

Something I thought I'd never say: If they don't change course, I'm well willing to ditch Windows completely. Sitting it out isn't an option for someone who works in IT. Never was I this happy with what I had on Windows 7, Visual Studio (+addins) is a joy to work with, and the OS just works. I hope they realise that if Windows 8 falls flat, their mobile branch dies along with it. No use for a tablet or a phone that shares the UI paradigm with something nobody buys/uses/wants. And flipping the bird to people who like to get something done (and maybe even develop for said platform) is something that doesn't sit well with me. Is a tablet user (solely consumer) really that much more worthy than a desktop developer (consumer + producer)? With the usage statistics of IE6 proving to this very day that corporations hate change and have a turning circle larger than the biggest cargo freighters, this change in user interface will anger that part of the market that provided so much support for them in the past.

I've been a loyal fan since Windows 95, but now I just don't see it. And it seems it's not just me who thinks that Microsoft is too much into, or for that matter, too out of, touch.

This post has been edited by belgianguy: 25 February 2012 - 08:08 AM

[CoffeeFiend]

Fantastic post

belgianguy, on 25 February 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

Mobile markets are flooding with iPads and Androids, and they needed to do something. Yet, instead of going with a sound strategy, they decided that desktop users and efficiency are second class citizens to tablets and touch.

Precisely. Instead of making a mobile product that sells based on its own merit (something they're incapable of IMO), they decided to make the desktop painful to use, giving it an awful interface that makes no sense -- because then we'll want "that thing that makes the desktop suck and that angers you" on our mobile devices too? I see that as yet another reason NOT to buy one.

belgianguy, on 25 February 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

While they probably see this as a way to leverage the flagship Windows platform as a last-ditch attempt to break into the phone/tablet market, in my eyes they did nothing else than 'infecting' something that was healthy before: Windows for Desktop. Now, Windows 8 tells you it's the Metro way or the highway. But when the highway allows for easier travel than the Metro way, I won't hesitate. Especially since backwards compatibility seems to be out of the window (pun intended), there should be even less friction to switch to another OS entirely or force those unconvinced to just sit out the Windows 8 disaster-in-progress.

You summed up my thoughts better than I could have. They won't make their mobile devices attractive to me -- even as a long-time MS fanboy. They're just killing the desktop instead (the only market segment they had) by alienating all of its users and developers.

belgianguy, on 25 February 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

Something I thought I'd never say: If they don't change course, I'm well willing to ditch Windows completely.

That's what's extremely worrying. Lots of us long-timers, fanboys, programmers and enthusiasts that have been with MS for over 20 years are now perfectly willing to ditch Windows altogether. That's what's actually happening -- not that we're all lusting for their mobile devices that don't sell, never sold and most likely never will. All of a sudden, the lifeblood of Windows are thinking "how about I run these Windows apps in vSphere or in a terminal server, and find replacements or ports of other apps to other platforms?" MS or Windows certainly won't die overnight, but they're forcing us to start a migration away from their platform and making us consider their competitor's offerings. If Windows is going in that direction, now what computer am I going to use for Photoshop or AutoCAD or to sync my iPhone? Yes: a Mac. MS just sold a Mac. And if I'm now a Mac user, what platform am I going to develop for? And thus by killing its Visual Studio sales, they'll also kill their SQL Server sales. MS is going to hand over its market to Apple, on a proverbial silver platter.

belgianguy, on 25 February 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

Never was I this happy with what I had on Windows 7, Visual Studio (+addins) is a joy to work with, and the OS just works.

Same here. We had it *so* good. Win7 and VS2010 are a truly fantastic combo. And just like that, they take it all away. Win8 is an abomination, and even VS11 is doing some questionable changes that have its users rather upset (everything is now grey). Yes, they're working on making the interface suck (thankfully 3rd party themes should fix most of it) instead of trying to compete with C++11 support, useful C# features besides async, improving refactoring or anything else that might actually be useful. Right now it doesn't look like it's worth upgrading to regardless of the price.

3 more days until we see if the sky is really falling.

Oh, I'm working on a fairly large C# project, but thankfully the only hardware it uses is a USB communication device. So worst case scenario (yes, there's always Mono too), we'll still be able to use Win7 in a VM, passing through the USB device to the VM 10+ years down the road. It's sad that Win8 is forcing us to consider what we'd do without Windows before it's even released. Edit: well, there's also a Cyclone Pro programmer but that's also a USB device (or used stand-alone, or via TCP/IP or via RS-232 so no worries at all here)

[jaclaz]

OT , but not much search for "revolutionary" on this page :
http://www.microsoft...s.aspx?id=19004





Abd - still OT but not that much - a comparison related to design evolution:
http://reboot.pro/16395/

jaclaz

This post has been edited by jaclaz: 26 February 2012 - 11:10 AM

[CoffeeFiend]

jaclaz, on 26 February 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

search for "revolutionary" on this page :
http://www.microsoft...s.aspx?id=19004

Yes, that sounds like a technology we should adopt! I hear it has a bright future

[belgianguy]

CoffeeFiend, on 26 February 2012 - 10:21 AM, said:

belgianguy, on 25 February 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

Never was I this happy with what I had on Windows 7, Visual Studio (+addins) is a joy to work with, and the OS just works.

Same here. We had it *so* good. Win7 and VS2010 are a truly fantastic combo. And just like that, they take it all away. Win8 is an abomination, and even VS11 is doing some questionable changes that have its users rather upset (everything is now grey). Yes, they're working on making the interface suck (thankfully 3rd party themes should fix most of it) instead of trying to compete with C++11 support, useful C# features besides async, improving refactoring or anything else that might actually be useful. Right now it doesn't look like it's worth upgrading to regardless of the price.

3 more days until we see if the sky is really falling.

Oh, I'm working on a fairly large C# project, but thankfully the only hardware it uses is a USB communication device. So worst case scenario (yes, there's always Mono too), we'll still be able to use Win7 in a VM, passing through the USB device to the VM 10+ years down the road. It's sad that Win8 is forcing us to consider what we'd do without Windows before it's even released.

Oh my, I knew they were redesigning VS11, but this is bad! Eclipse looks vivid compared to that. I didn't know colors were forbidden! Using a bland gray, CAPS and :::::: as spacers, what were they thinking? Were they thinking at all? Did they already name the theme?
How about "Depression" or "Suicidal" ?

A tool that is mainly used by developers to be productive with shouldn't be put in the hands of designers to give it a set of fake boobs and a lip-job. Especially so in the case of VS: under the hood is where the core improvements should be made. A groundrule should be: If an alteration does damage productivity and/or efficiency in the least, that alteration should not be made, especially not in an IDE.

For starters, it would be so nice to have VS not flat-out crap itself and crash when I get a bit outlandish with XAML. Styling should be an afterthought and is probably best left to the developer to customize. I don't want to think about what this redesign already cost, what the re-redesign is going to cost, let alone what the end-user eventually will have to pay for this unholy mess.

I don't get Microsoft's sudden infatuation with giving up so much in the domain of efficiency and productivity to satisfy some designer's temper tantrum. Unification of design is nice and all, but it should never come at a cost of productivity and/or efficiency. And it's that capital sin Metro is guilty of. Metro works for simple things, single-use applications. Like stepping through a set of picture, or cycling through a set of Twitter messages. When things get complex and advanced, Metro is far too clumsy with its big texts and its gluttonous usage of screen estate. It are those complex programs one cannot use with touch in mind. As I've said before, in my eyes Metro doesn't bring anything useful to the desktop. On the contrary even.

While I thought they'd be open for criticism, the main trend I see is that everybody who doesn't outright adore Metro is considered to be an outcast, someone who "doesn't get it", the Windows version of a leper. Microsoft might be getting cosy with the prospective tablet owners, but someone is going to have to code these apps for said tablets. And those who code for a living aren't doing it on tablets as far as I know. Your hands would be reduced to bloody stumps in a moment's notice due to the verbosity of XAML alone. Good luck getting an app ecosystem started if you treat your developers like dirt.

The last thing they should be doing is flipping off the guys and girls who do their programming. At the moment they're making their life that much harder by being obsessed with some sort of Cupertinian fetishism. It sure as hell isn't going to make programmers flock to the platform. I've been looking around for other options.

All in all, I feel the people who want to use their computer to get something done are getting the Milton Waddams (Office Space) treatment by Microsoft.

[JorgeA]

Quote

Win8 is an abomination, and even VS11 is doing some questionable changes that have its users rather upset (everything is now grey).

CoffeeFiend,

So the monochromatic look is "in" now, eh?

Put that together with the return of tiles and limited multitasking of the Metro interface, and what we have is a regression to 1980s-era computing.

Quote

GEM/2, which allowed the display of only two fixed windows on the "desktop"

Sound familiar?



--JorgeA

This post has been edited by JorgeA: 27 February 2012 - 05:51 PM

[JorgeA]

belgianguy, on 26 February 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

I don't get Microsoft's sudden infatuation with giving up so much in the domain of efficiency and productivity to satisfy some designer's temper tantrum. Unification of design is nice and all, but it should never come at a cost of productivity and/or efficiency. And it's that capital sin Metro is guilty of. Metro works for simple things, single-use applications. Like stepping through a set of picture, or cycling through a set of Twitter messages. When things get complex and advanced, Metro is far too clumsy with its big texts and its gluttonous usage of screen estate. It are those complex programs one cannot use with touch in mind. As I've said before, in my eyes Metro doesn't bring anything useful to the desktop. On the contrary even.

belgianguy,

Excellent posts you've been putting up -- welcome!

Regarding what you said above, there's a ton of truth to that. I actually got a taste of what it's like for a novice PC user this weekend when I helped my aunt to set up her first computer. I can now appreciate how alien and overwhelming the experience is as a whole, as well as how a simpler user interface could help a new user to get started with less pain.

That said, the long-term effect of simplifying the interface (to the point where you can't access the file system, as Metro proposes to do) will be to keep PC users stuck at that novice level, viewing the computer as basically a "black box" that performs magic for them and every so often the high priests in Redmond send new incantations (dare I say, "charms") to make the box do new magical tricks.

I understand that some, perhaps even many, people don't care to explore their machines and prefer to keep their interactions with it at such a superficial level. That's fine. The solution, which doesn't seem to be winning out, is to offer users a CHOICE as to the kind of experience that they prefer. Let the novices stay in their blissful ignorance, but allow those of us who hunger for knowledge and understanding to continue being able to get into the inner workings of the OS and programs. Besides the fact that getting work done via the Metro Start Screen is more cumbersome, my concern is that the desktop has now been relegated to second-class status ("the desktop is just another app") and may be ultimately eliminated altogether, except at some exorbitant price for developers and other computing professionals.

[EDIT: Apropos of this, check out this recent statement by security expert Bruce Schneier:

Quote

He called the new model "feudal security" in which Kindle Fire owners trust their security to Amazon, iPhone users trust their Apple, and so on. As a result, the devices no longer come with general-purpose capabilities. Open environments are increasingly being replaced with closed systems that are designed to give users less control.

"Closed systems designed to give users less control." With Metro, Windows is taking a big step in that same direction.
end EDIT]

belgianguy, on 26 February 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

While I thought they'd be open for criticism, the main trend I see is that everybody who doesn't outright adore Metro is considered to be an outcast, someone who "doesn't get it", the Windows version of a leper. Microsoft might be getting cosy with the prospective tablet owners, but someone is going to have to code these apps for said tablets. And those who code for a living aren't doing it on tablets as far as I know. Your hands would be reduced to bloody stumps in a moment's notice due to the verbosity of XAML alone. Good luck getting an app ecosystem started if you treat your developers like dirt.

The last thing they should be doing is flipping off the guys and girls who do their programming. At the moment they're making their life that much harder by being obsessed with some sort of Cupertinian fetishism. It sure as hell isn't going to make programmers flock to the platform. I've been looking around for other options.

All in all, I feel the people who want to use their computer to get something done are getting the Milton Waddams (Office Space) treatment by Microsoft.

Well said. Reading through the comments sections on the MS blogs, you can see a definite "groupie" element -- people who will fall for anything that's new, just because it's new. They label as "haters" those of us who don't care for it, but too few offer actual arguments for preferring the Metro interface. And note how the desktop is being derided as "dated" and "stale." Umm -- how, exactly, is a way of presenting material "stale"? It just IS.

--JorgeA

This post has been edited by JorgeA: 27 February 2012 - 06:31 PM

[CoffeeFiend]

belgianguy, on 26 February 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

what were they thinking? Were they thinking at all?

No need to worry. Nobody's going to upgrade to Visual Studio 11 anytime soon as C++ apps don't run on WinXP anymore, and most likely .NET 4.5 apps won't run on XP either (the beta doesn't run on on anything older than Win7 for that matter). Yes, we're just going to start writing apps that don't work on half the computers that run Windows

[belgianguy]

JorgeA, glad you like 'em! I'll do my best to keep them interesting. Usually, I'm not that snarky, but Windows 8 becomes more jaw dropping insane every day.

On the topic of simplicity and computers, I still have to point my mom and dad to features for which I use short-cuts. I tried teaching them Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V, to no avail. For my dad making a webpage equals using that abomination called Frontpage (he might as well just use notepad, equal frustration but cleaner code). How am I going to tell him when he comes home with a Windows 8 PC that there is no more Start Menu, that everything he thought he knew about computers is now gone? Even if some might be capable to re-learn all that, who says that they will want to? It wouldn't surprise me that for many the Start Menu was one of those critical steps in finding things, and knowing 'where to start' a sequence of actions. All gone, and the replacement isn't an improvement if you disregard the tablet-ification features.



CoffeeFiend, what a great PR stunt to declare that they "fixed" the broken VS11-theme and meanwhile also succeeded in stopping to support Windows XP. You can't make that stuff up. Sigh

Btw, do you know what 12648430 stands for in Hexadecimal?

Spoiler

0xC0FFEE

I just don't get it, my mind is unwilling to accept that this is the reality we're facing. My brain tries to trick me into believing they're just fooling us and that they'll show the real Windows 8 later on. Then we'll all laugh about how gullibe we were!

They sure got me!


Yeah, then reality kicks in. I can't comprehend why they are doing this, Windows 7 was fine, why not allow for both desktop and tablet systems, a dual approach? Why force Metro on those who do not want it? Could this be just a marketing ploy? Or will the 'Professional' version allow for a 'Desktop upgrade' for a small fee, as Microsoft knows big business, and wouldn't be so dumb to lock itself out of their biggest sponsor, right? Is this just a long-winded joke to get the attention of the tech-crowd? Given that the Consumer Preview addresses a few of the mouse and desktop issues, but by no means offers a workable experience for someone to use it on a professional basis, I'm starting to believe this is what the final version will be like.

At the moment, where Windows 7 felt like just doing my work, Windows 8 feels like doing my work and getting a kick in the balls from time to time. When I complain about not wanting to get kicked in the balls, I get told that I'll get used to it, and that after the first kick in the balls, I'll barely notice it from that point onwards. If I keep complaining I get told that I can always install a third-party protector cup so that I won't feel getting kicked in the balls that much anymore.
And I'm supposed to accept that over "You don't want a kick in the balls, well just say so!" ? Especially after the previous edition seemed to do just fine without kicking people in the balls.

Perhaps those who dislike it just are a vocal minority, or perhaps these issues will explode further down the road. Can't really say what the general public thinks of Windows 8, but I can't see myself getting anything serious done. For example: coding the simplest of dynamic webpages, which requires running 3 different browsers, a database tool and an editor. Something that would be nigh impossible or at least unworkable in Windows 8.

How fricking hard could it be to make them run alongside each other, I mean, it's not like it's a freaking phone, right? Sorry if the following image is a bit poor in taste, but it succinctly illustrates my Metro experience thus far:

This post has been edited by belgianguy: 29 February 2012 - 07:48 PM

[CoffeeFiend]

belgianguy, on 29 February 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

CoffeFiend, what a great PR stunt to declare that they "fixed" the VS11-theme and meanwhile also succeeded in stopping to support Windows XP. You can't make that stuff up. Sigh

Yeah, I totally hear you. Even well-known softies like Scott Hanselman don't seem to care much for it. There's a few things I wanted from VS 11 myself:
-Some cool C# features, but they barely have anything worth mentioning really (it might as well be nothing)
-I wanted them to make it easier to use built-in OS stuff like TaskDialogs and such things (without the crappy API code pack) but instead of that they're pushing for Metro everything
-Significantly improved refactoring/code inspection/better intelllisense ala resharper, and things like a much improved mstest (I'll use nunit over it anyway) -- here they deliver NOTHING
-Great C++11 support, yet it's still lagging far behind GCC despite costing DIVIDE BY ZERO ERROR% more than GCC
...
They give you no actual improvements, but they give you a depressing theme that makes it hard to find stuff, a hefty price tag and as a bonus they drop support for half of your customer's PCs! Wow, where do I sign up?

belgianguy, on 29 February 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

I just don't get it, my mind is unwilling to accept that this is the reality we're facing. My brain tries to trick me into believing they're just fooling us and that they'll show the real Windows 8 later on. Then we'll all laugh about how gullibe we were!

They sure got me!

I'm *so* totally there. Right now my first reaction is "so long Windows". Ballmer and Sonofski managed to kill something that was truly great. Today, MS lost me as a power user, a developer, an enthusiast for 20 years (since MS-DOS 3.3), and a guy who fixes other people's PCs once in a while (fixed a vista laptop that was missing usbstor.inf again today). Goodbye Windows. Goodbye C# and Visual Studio. Goodbye SQL Server. It's now time to develop cross-platform non-Metro apps. Our next PCs will be Macs, and our next mp3 player/tablet/phones will be Apple or Android devices. By year 2020 we should be mostly Microsoft-free, running legacy stuff in VMWare Workstation or vSphere. There's always the possibility that Win9 won't be such an abomination but I've mostly lost hope.

belgianguy, on 29 February 2012 - 07:34 PM, said: