[jaclaz]

@CharlotteTheHarlot

Really, you are becoming outdated.

MS dropped the use of Metro as the name of the interface.

The proposed way is (since a few posts) to call it Metro "Nameless Crap Interface", which you can well abbreviate as NCI (the original abbreviation that had a final S in it, shorthand for you know what , has been retired because Jethro Gibbs and all the guys/gals there are nice peeps .

jaclaz

[JorgeA]

jaclaz, on 29 August 2012 - 01:21 AM, said:

JorgeA, on 28 August 2012 - 04:23 PM, said:

The solution (which even lawyers might be able to understand) could be for Samsung to place a start button at the left end of the taskbar, instead of a dock in the center. (Of course, there's no solution to a hypothetical patent that covered any icons anywhere on the screen.)

Being minimalist, I personally find the blackbox shell (and other interfaces) approach, the most convenient: righ click anywhere on the desktop and a cascading menu appears.

jaclaz

Huh, that would be pretty cool, actually.

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

Tripredacus, on 29 August 2012 - 07:38 AM, said:

Well Samsung should know that there is a binding policy with Windows 8. Obviously they didn't read it. I doubt this "Start Menu" widget ever officially ships, else Samsung will have violated their agreement with Microsoft.

You're kidding!?! You mean that Microsoft is requiring OEMs to not put a start menu on their Windows installations? (How'd you find out?)

Amazing.

--JorgeA

[CharlotteTheHarlot]

jaclaz, on 29 August 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

Really, you are becoming outdated.

MS dropped the use of Metro as the name of the interface.

The proposed way is (since a few posts) to call it Metro "Nameless Crap Interface", which you can well abbreviate as NCI (the original abbreviation that had a final S in it, shorthand for you know what , has been retired because Jethro Gibbs and all the guys/gals there are nice peeps .

Yep, that's me. stubborn, old school, change hater! (except when they do something right)

But I'm sticking with the name Metro until Ballmer & Sinofsky apologize in public for turning Windows into Sesame Street and making Microsoft a laughingstock.

Microsoft NCIS Division ...
- Never Create Interfaces Stoned
- New Computer Interface Stupidity
- No Creative Idea Supported
- Never Confide In Sinofsky
- No Change in Status
- Nothing's Carved in Stone

I cheated for a few of these here and here

[Tripredacus]

JorgeA, on 29 August 2012 - 11:41 AM, said:

Tripredacus, on 29 August 2012 - 07:38 AM, said:

Well Samsung should know that there is a binding policy with Windows 8. Obviously they didn't read it. I doubt this "Start Menu" widget ever officially ships, else Samsung will have violated their agreement with Microsoft.

You're kidding!?! You mean that Microsoft is requiring OEMs to not put a start menu on their Windows installations?

Its not so specific. OEMs can't include something that is basically a Start Screen (previously Metro screen) replacement... aka some method of launching multiple apps, which is what Start Screen is meant to do. In addition, OEMs can't enable the Widget Bar. There is, however, nothing to stop anyone from making available a Desktop-style app that once installed enables the Widget Bar and puts that Start Menu thing on it.

[MagicAndre1981]

Start8 now also brings the Win7 Startmenu back:

Quote

Features

Adds a classic style "Start" menu to the Windows 8 taskbar.
Includes support for:
View and launch installed applications (including Metro/Modern)
All Programs menu, quick links to commonly accessed folders (Documents, Music, Photos, Computer, and more).
Adds searchable Start menu options for Windows desktop applications, Metro/Modern applications, and documents.
Adds a "Start" button to the Windows 8 taskbar.
Automatically load directly to your Windows desktop on login (vs the start screen).
Pin favorite shortcuts directly to the start menu for easy access.
Includes support for "jump lists"/recent documents for recently accessed programs.

http://stardock.com/products/start8/

[JorgeA]

Tripredacus, on 29 August 2012 - 12:38 PM, said:

OEMs can't include something that is basically a Start Screen (previously Metro screen) replacement... aka some method of launching multiple apps, which is what Start Screen is meant to do. In addition, OEMs can't enable the Widget Bar. There is, however, nothing to stop anyone from making available a Desktop-style app that once installed enables the Widget Bar and puts that Start Menu thing on it.

So, the difference is that Samsung or Dell couldn't provide it pre-installed on their PCs, but a third party could offer it over the Web. (I guess it couldn't be sold via the Windows Store, eh? )

How about if among the pre-installed features and trial software that OEMs put on the desktop, they were to put an "offer" for a Start Menu replacement? Or maybe that's what you had in mind...

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

MagicAndre1981, on 29 August 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

Start8 now also brings the Win7 Startmenu back:

Quote

Features

Adds a classic style "Start" menu to the Windows 8 taskbar.
Includes support for:
View and launch installed applications (including Metro/Modern)
All Programs menu, quick links to commonly accessed folders (Documents, Music, Photos, Computer, and more).
Adds searchable Start menu options for Windows desktop applications, Metro/Modern applications, and documents.
Adds a "Start" button to the Windows 8 taskbar.
Automatically load directly to your Windows desktop on login (vs the start screen).
Pin favorite shortcuts directly to the start menu for easy access.
Includes support for "jump lists"/recent documents for recently accessed programs.

This is great, MagicAndre -- a vast improvement over the previous version of Start8. It seems to be now an all-in-one "avoid Metro" package that includes 1) a regular Start Menu, 2) a Start Button, and 3) the ability to boot to the Desktop.

Thanks for reporting it.

Now, if someone were to devise a way to install Themes or Skin Packs on Windows 8 that are more interesting than the crude flat look that MS has decreed. Been looking for this all over the 'Net, and mostly I see promises, complaints, and frustration over Win8 from skin-pack developers.

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

Apropos of the recurrent discussion in this thread about the dangers of the Cloud, data syncing, and cybersecurity/privacy, we have this "epic hack".

The writer played his part in his own digital destruction, but the point remains that if even a supposedly savvy tech writer can fall victim to this sort of thing, what does that imply for the hundreds of millions of users out there who are less sophisticated than him?

Windows 8 is intended to be the most cloud-friendly OS from Microsoft to date -- no, thanks!

--JorgeA

[xpclient]

MagicAndre1981, on 29 August 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

Start8 now also brings the Win7 Startmenu back:

Quote

Features

Adds a classic style "Start" menu to the Windows 8 taskbar.
Includes support for:
View and launch installed applications (including Metro/Modern)
All Programs menu, quick links to commonly accessed folders (Documents, Music, Photos, Computer, and more).
Adds searchable Start menu options for Windows desktop applications, Metro/Modern applications, and documents.
Adds a "Start" button to the Windows 8 taskbar.
Automatically load directly to your Windows desktop on login (vs the start screen).
Pin favorite shortcuts directly to the start menu for easy access.
Includes support for "jump lists"/recent documents for recently accessed programs.

http://stardock.com/products/start8/

I am already getting heart attacks unless fans reassure me that Classic Shell is still the best. I still believe it is but I am not sure others see it that way so I have entered depression. Start8 has file search (although crappily done), jump lists, ability to launch Metro apps and highlighting of new programs. And Start8 shows Windows' MRU list of programs, not its own. I envy it!

This post has been edited by xpclient: 30 August 2012 - 08:36 AM

[Kelsenellenelvian]

xpclient, on 30 August 2012 - 01:19 AM, said:

MagicAndre1981, on 29 August 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

Start8 now also brings the Win7 Startmenu back:

Quote

Features

Adds a classic style "Start" menu to the Windows 8 taskbar.
Includes support for:
View and launch installed applications (including Metro/Modern)
All Programs menu, quick links to commonly accessed folders (Documents, Music, Photos, Computer, and more).
Adds searchable Start menu options for Windows desktop applications, Metro/Modern applications, and documents.
Adds a "Start" button to the Windows 8 taskbar.
Automatically load directly to your Windows desktop on login (vs the start screen).
Pin favorite shortcuts directly to the start menu for easy access.
Includes support for "jump lists"/recent documents for recently accessed programs.

http://stardock.com/products/start8/

I am already getting heart attacks unless fans reassure me that Classic Shell is still the best. I still believe it is but I am not sure others see it that way so I have entered depression. Start8 has file search (although crappily done), jump lists, ability to launch Metro apps and highlighting of new programs. I envy it!

Wait untill Win8 Dials hoome and tells MS you are using that....

Won't surprise me in the slightest if ms un genuines your pc fr it.

[Tripredacus]

JorgeA, on 29 August 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

Tripredacus, on 29 August 2012 - 12:38 PM, said:

OEMs can't include something that is basically a Start Screen (previously Metro screen) replacement... aka some method of launching multiple apps, which is what Start Screen is meant to do. In addition, OEMs can't enable the Widget Bar. There is, however, nothing to stop anyone from making available a Desktop-style app that once installed enables the Widget Bar and puts that Start Menu thing on it.

So, the difference is that Samsung or Dell couldn't provide it pre-installed on their PCs, but a third party could offer it over the Web. (I guess it couldn't be sold via the Windows Store, eh? )

How about if among the pre-installed features and trial software that OEMs put on the desktop, they were to put an "offer" for a Start Menu replacement? Or maybe that's what you had in mind...

--JorgeA

Even Samsung or Dell could offer such a program download on their website, not just a third party (like Stardock)... OEMs would get into trouble by including such software, even it not installed, as some sort of trialware or whatever on a shipped system. The thought of a shortcut, opt-in option... OEM first run application (like ISP signup) that tells a user about the ability to use Start Menu replacers probably would be frowned upon, considering the amount of trouble Microsoft has gone to make sure even the apps from DP time wouldn't work... But I don't see any specific policy against that but I wouldn't recommend it. Play it safe I say! If your customer wants a Start Menu, give them Windows 7!

[jaclaz]

Tripredacus, on 30 August 2012 - 08:59 AM, said:

If your customer wants a Start Menu, give them Windows 7!

AND don't forget to tell MS how you tried to provide a WIndows 8 but you failed and had to resort to a Windows 7 because the customer thought that the Windows 8 Metro Nameless Crap Interface sucks big....

jaclaz

[JorgeA]

xpclient, on 30 August 2012 - 01:19 AM, said:

I am already getting heart attacks unless fans reassure me that Classic Shell is still the best. I still believe it is but I am not sure others see it that way so I have entered depression. Start8 has file search (although crappily done), jump lists, ability to launch Metro apps and highlighting of new programs. And Start8 shows Windows' MRU list of programs, not its own. I envy it!

ClassicShell is great -- AFAIK it's the only program that allows you to re-enable lost features in recent versions of Internet Explorer. I'm using it in IE10 on my Win8 preview installs.

As far as the new Start8 capabilities... consider that a feature set to add to the next edition of ClassicShell! (Full disclosure: I haven't tried Start8. When they first came out it had the Metro look and so a different Start Menu replacement got onto my CP and RP. The DP I left alone to keep the full flavor of the Metro sh*t.)

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

Tripredacus, on 30 August 2012 - 08:59 AM, said:

Even Samsung or Dell could offer such a program download on their website, not just a third party (like Stardock)... OEMs would get into trouble by including such software, even it not installed, as some sort of trialware or whatever on a shipped system. The thought of a shortcut, opt-in option... OEM first run application (like ISP signup) that tells a user about the ability to use Start Menu replacers probably would be frowned upon, considering the amount of trouble Microsoft has gone to make sure even the apps from DP time wouldn't work... But I don't see any specific policy against that but I wouldn't recommend it. Play it safe I say! If your customer wants a Start Menu, give them Windows 7!

Thanks for the details, Tripredacus, I understand now.

I like jaclaz's suggestion -- MS probably keeps tabs on "returns" or downgrades like that.

--JorgeA

[jaclaz]

For NO apparent reason , and clearly OT

Spoiler

http://www.droid-lif...es-ipad-banned/

besides the humour , it is worth to notice the actual date the thingy was published:

Quote

posted 09.14.11

jaclaz

[jaclaz]

More OT news :

Tokyo Court Rules For Samsung, Says It Didn't Violate Apple Patent

http://e.nikkei.com/...831D3ZJF815.htm

Anyone catching here:
http://www.bbc.com/n...nology-19425051

Quote

What was the crucial bit of evidence that made you give a verdict that was so decisive in Apple's favour rather than Samsung's?

As I have told others that have interviewed me, for me one of the most decisive pieces of evidence was reading the minutes for myself of a meeting that was held at a very high level between Google executives and Samsung executives, where it was for a tablet and Google was concerned that for the sake of their operating system that the look and feel and the methodology that they [Samsung] were using to create their tablet was getting too close to what Apple was doing.

And in the memo themselves - remember this was minutes - they stated that Google demanded that they back away from that design. And later there was a follow-up memo among themselves, these executives, and in black and white it says: we elect to not pass this information down to the divisions that were actually involved in the design.

So, from the sake of the engineers they went merrily along continuing their design not given any orders to back away. They knew nothing of that meeting. To me that kind of raised a lightbulb in my head that when I got in the jury room I wanted to read the minutes of that meeting myself.

the irony that ultimately the ones that first said that Samsung was copying Apple were the good Google guys (and that this is one of the key point of the jurors decision)?

jaclaz

[CharlotteTheHarlot]

jaclaz, on 31 August 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

Tokyo Court Rules For Samsung, Says It Didn't Violate Apple Patent

http://e.nikkei.com/...831D3ZJF815.htm

I think that jury decision (the California case) is looking pretty shaky overall. It is a prime candidate for overturning because of both the Judge and the Jury. The Judge is seen as an Apple puppet, and now the Jury is coming under scrutiny.

Apple v. Samsung juror: we "wanted to send a message" ( Ars Technica 2012-08-26 )

It is interesting to read through the many comments there. I think the love affair with Apple is nearing its end (Microsoft, take note).

So much of Apple's business is based upon temporary captive markets, walled-off as the result of lawsuits or the threats of them. The problem for this business model is that like everything, it is inevitable that the tide will turn and they will receive a string of losing court decisions, and hopefully Japan is a bellweather. Never underestimate the power of ill-will. They may be racking up a few victories but they are also accumulating a lot of resentment. They are not seen the same way today that they were just a couple of years ago. This global patent war, not just by Apple, is waking up lots of people I think to the realization that modern Patent or Intellectual Property litigation is now about freezing a market into one vendor without competition for an arbitrary period of time. Patents and IP have evolved into the exact opposite of competition, Apple (among others) has capitalized on this.

This is what bugs me the most about Microsoft moving in the direction of Apple. If history is a guide they will arrive late to this party and be on the receiving end of the backlash that Apple ironically cultivated. Microsoft is always late to any new market or model, and then they make huge errors playing catch-up, often failing spectacularly . There is a pretty good chance that by the time they evolve Windows into a walled-garden with a childish interface, the world will already have had its fill of it and reject them yet again. It would serve them right for their ridiculous Apple-envy.

EDIT: minor point clarification, and grammar!

This post has been edited by CharlotteTheHarlot: 01 September 2012 - 12:43 PM

[jaclaz]

A non-obvious idea
Patented innovating technology


And an App exploiting it
http://www.nosedial.com/whatis.html

The need for phone sanitizers might increase....

jaclaz

[CharlotteTheHarlot]

Further discussion about the Samsung StartMenu'esque 'S Launcher' with a bit of pro-Microsoft spin ...

Samsung Start menu app shows why Microsoft is going its own way with Surface ( Ars Technica 2012-08-28 )

Quote

"As such, S Launcher is just delaying the inevitable. It might seem familiar to users, but it will in practice stand in the way of their ability to learn and use the new operating system. And even that familiarity seems superficial; a number of third-party Start menu applications are available, and they do a much more authentic job of replicating the Start menu than S Launcher does.

This kind of application is exactly why Microsoft is producing its own line of Windows 8 tablets. The company wants the Windows 8 user experience to be just so. Microsoft is working to ensure that it's right—to ensure that it's appealing, and works well without unnecessary impediments."

Bigtime comment war is still underway.

The author, Peter (not so) Bright is real late to the party apparently having only read the Mashable article without realizing all the other great, creative work under way from Tihiy's Win7 transplant to Start8 to ClassicShell, not to mention long running mods like RainMeter among others. Perhaps he should ask himself why we feel the need to modify every single Windows release (with increasing necessity) from its standard, official, OOBE look and feel. Lots of the fanboys actually do wonder about this phenomenon but for all the wrong reasons. IMHO it is because they are left scratching their heads wondering why they themselves feel satisfied with the default Microsoft-designed but Apple-esque captive structure, and they feel a bit left out like someone that didn't get invited to an important function and then go on a campaign to convince everyone else that they shouldn't go either.


EDIT: just wanted to add a hat tip to a great comment there from fung0, which I completely agree with. He says it much better than I have been able to, zeroing in on the real problem IMHO ...

Quote

"... The parallel here is with Apple, when John Scully took over. Steve Ballmer knows nothing about computing, and cares even less. This shows in the decisions he's making. Win8 represents a total abandonment of all the core philosophies that made Microsoft dominant in the computing world. Gates played business hardball, to be sure, but he knew technology, and how best to exploit it. Ballmer knows dollars and cents, and nothing more. If his vision meets with even moderate success, he'll continue to turn Microsoft into a company that acts more and more like Apple, but lacks Apple's technical and design expertise. That's the worst of all worlds.

Furthermore, having cross-licensed everything with Apple, Microsoft can sit back while Apple sues all competition off the playing field, potentially leaving us with a duopoly of tightly-closed platforms. This is not a future I want to live in. So my resistance to Win8 is based only partly on the fact that it's needlessly ugly and awkward, and mainly on the fact that it's a signpost to a place I'd rather not go. A place that even Win8 supporters, if they thought about it at all, would probably prefer not to end up."

I would only add one thing to that quoted comment, and that is that their status of near absolute monopoly on existing desktops and many laptops, plus their power to make deals with OEM's for new systems brings the antitrust issue to light when Microsoft even considers leveraging their unique position, the issues of trust, ethics and responsibility. There are many, many problems with this 'new' OS, not one single issue. Some are about usability for novices, some are about cost to the corporate environment, but one of the biggest is the direction towards a closed market and IMHO this must be fought at all costs. We cannot let them become Apple. I would have thought that this would be simple enough for even the anti-Apple pro-Microsoft fanboys to understand.

This post has been edited by CharlotteTheHarlot: 01 September 2012 - 02:25 PM