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Future versions of Firefox on Windows 2000

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#1
ppgrainbow

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Hey, everyone! :hello:

You might remember this forum post from nearly six years ago when Mozilla made a decision to drop support for Windows 9x/NT4/Me from Gecko 1.9.

After several months of wondering off in bugzilla.mozilla.org as well as mozilla.dev.planning Google newsgroups, I'm starting to feel pretty adventurous to see as if there are some developers here who have good knowledge of C++ programming with interest to keep Windows 2000 alive on our own accord, I've been thinking that this would be the right place to post.

Well...as you might not have already noticed, Asa Doltzer, Mozilla software developer and community coordinator for Firefox marketing projects has called on the Mozilla development team to end all support for Windows 2000, Windows XP RTM, Windows XP SP1 and Windows Server 2003 RTM.

This change will impact all Mozilla-based apps (including official builds of Firefox) off the Gecko 13 branch and beyond. Products built on the Gecko 12 branch will be last to support Windows 2000. When Firefox 13 gets released on 5 June 2012 (less than 18 weeks from now), our options will be limited.

With Firefox 13 (the current version in trunk Nightly) and any Mozilla-based apps built on Gecko 13, developers switched to Visual Studio 2010 which means that the upcoming version of Firefox (and any Mozilla-based apps) will start using EncodePointer, DecodePointer, newer compiler features with numerous entry point dependencies that do not exist on Windows 2000 and older versions of Windows. :(

Here are the references, if you're interested:
1. https://bugzilla.moz...g.cgi?id=563318
2. http://weblogs.mozil...efox_win2k.html
3. http://groups.google...16ae0cc2a331b8d
4. http://groups.google...6fcb6210f8b3d62
5. http://groups.google...b0164a039e425e4

That's why there are projects (such as KernelEx for Win2K and KDW/FCWin2K) to help keep Win2K alive. Wouldn't it be interesting to help contribute and try to develop a compatibility library or a custom version of Firefox (or any Mozilla-based app) for Windows 2000?

Well...with less than 18 weeks remaining, there is still a lot of time do this and I've been thinking that it would be a good idea to get discussions started early. :)

Let's see if anyone here is interested in helping out!

Sadly, I don't have any knowledge of C++ programming, but I'll be glad to see what is going on here. I can't wait to test out some stuff under VMware Player soon to see if it works.

Edited by ppgrainbow, 19 October 2012 - 09:36 AM.

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#2
Browncoat

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Where is the actual announcement?
Google groups that you pointed to isn't the real Usenet.

I'm finding hard to swallow but there's always filehippo to get earlier versions for a new system build.
Especially since I haven't been savy enough to suss out BWC's patches.
Isn't Mozilla supposed to be part of the open source community?
I've been using open source stuff mainly Open/LibreOffice and VLC media player on the 2k desktop
and dual booting Linux for modern features.

The only App that has been 'holding me back" has been Protecteer's SignUp Shield which has been stuck
in FF ver. 3.xx.xx for some time, for a long time I've been wanting to upgrade to FF 9 or 10 but their app
hasn't gone forward. See their FAQ.
http://www.protecteer.com/asp/home.asp

The only hardware, my two MyHD - MDP 130s ATSC capture cards that run on 98/2000/XP.
http://www.avsforum....493691&page=404

I guess I'll have to adapt, using 2000 and maybe XP[for its' better hibernation] for embedded
"one job only" stuff and drift to Linux for full time web surfing because I'll be damned if I'm going
to buy copy after copy of that crap that needs product activation.

Edited by Browncoat, 02 February 2012 - 05:26 PM.


#3
ppgrainbow

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Browncoat, the actual announcement is on Asa's webblog. When I posted this forum thread, I found that the URL link was broken. So, I fixed the link for you. :)

In the short term, the upcoming beta version of Firefox will be Firefox 11 beta 1. Mozilla is apart of the open source community and has apparently been that way since it started work on Firefox way back in the end of 2002. One thing for sure is that I've been running Windows XP under VMware for quite sometime to take advantage of some of the modern features (even though Windows XP has been obsoleted since it left Mainstream Support in April 2009).

I managed to get some of the extensions working under Firefox 4 and later by extracting the XPI file and hacking the install.rdf to make it run on later versions of Firefox. As for the app that has been holding you back, I believe that it will only run properly on versions of Firefox (up to 3.6). Speaking of Firefox 3.6, the support plug will be pulled when Firefox 10.2 ESR gets released.

Windows XP does require product activation to work and I've been through this before.

Edited by ppgrainbow, 02 February 2012 - 06:19 PM.

AVA Direct FX AM3+ specs: Zalman ZM Z9-U3 Black Mid-Tower case / ASUS M5A97 R2.0 / AMD FX-4300 3.8 GHz quad-core processor / Fractal Design Integra R2 500W PSU/ Hyper 212 EVO CPU cooler / Western Digital BLACK SERIES 1 TB (WD1003FZEX) SATA III 7200 RPM / Lite-On iHas124 Black 24x DVD-RW / 8 GB Crucual (2 x 4GB) / StarTech SATA-to-CompactFlash Adapter (35BAYCF2SAT) / Ballistix Sport PC3-12800 DDR3 RAM / EVGA GeForce 8400 GS 520 MHz 1 GB GDDR3 / Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate SP2 x64


#4
blackwingcat

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Hi,

I know that the application can work on Windows 2000, whichi created by Visual Studio 2010,
if we even add a several codes it.

I released add-on library for Windows 2000 with VC++2010
if you install MS11-025, the applications don't work on 98/Me/NT/2000. (Japanese)
How to compile the application for Windows 2000 with VC++ 2010 (Japanese)

And because Windows 2000 has problem about rand_s and RtlGenRandom, then Firefox ignores OOPP option if it is Windows 2000. but it is resolved by several codes.

rand_s and RtlGenRandom (Japanese)

* Note: We can get OOPP available version firefox from here.
Tete's Atelier -software

Wouldn't it be interesting to help contribute and try to develop a compatibility library or a custom version of Firefox (or any Mozilla-based app) for Windows 2000?

Well...with less than 18 weeks remaining, there is still a lot of time do this and I've been thinking that it would be a good idea to get discussions started early. :)

Let's see if anyone here is interested in helping out!

Sadly, I don't have any knowledge of C++ programming, but I'll be glad to see what is going on here. I can't wait to test out some stuff under VMware Player soon to see if it works.


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#5
tomasz86

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Not being supported does not mean that it won't work...

In case it's compiled in VS 2010 you can just either:

1) Install BlackWingCat's MS VC++ 2010 SP1.
2) Install WildBill's kernel or BlackWingCat's kernel.
Posted Image
Unofficial Service Pack 5.2 for MS Windows 2000 <- use this topic if you need help with UURollup, Update Rollup 2 and other unofficial packages

#6
ppgrainbow

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Not being supported does not mean that it won't work...

In case it's compiled in VS 2010 you can just either:

1) Install BlackWingCat's MS VC++ 2010 SP1.
2) Install WildBill's kernel or BlackWingCat's kernel.


Can I have the link to the files in question? Thanks.

I will need to install it in a VM first before I do it on this PC. I will need to back the VM up incase that I screwed up. :)

By the way, here are the links to the trunk nightly builds of Firefox:
Trunk nightly: http://ftp.mozilla.o...y/latest-trunk/
ZIP file: http://ftp.mozilla.o...en-US.win32.zip
Installer: http://ftp.mozilla.o...2.installer.exe

With BlackWingCat's MSVC++ 2010 SP1 runtime and special kernel, I don't know if it's going to work or not. Mozilla developers are now expected to remove the dead support code for Windows 2000 from Gecko.

Edited by ppgrainbow, 02 February 2012 - 09:42 PM.

AVA Direct FX AM3+ specs: Zalman ZM Z9-U3 Black Mid-Tower case / ASUS M5A97 R2.0 / AMD FX-4300 3.8 GHz quad-core processor / Fractal Design Integra R2 500W PSU/ Hyper 212 EVO CPU cooler / Western Digital BLACK SERIES 1 TB (WD1003FZEX) SATA III 7200 RPM / Lite-On iHas124 Black 24x DVD-RW / 8 GB Crucual (2 x 4GB) / StarTech SATA-to-CompactFlash Adapter (35BAYCF2SAT) / Ballistix Sport PC3-12800 DDR3 RAM / EVGA GeForce 8400 GS 520 MHz 1 GB GDDR3 / Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate SP2 x64


#7
tomasz86

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You can find WildBill's kernel at bristols updates list. Look for KB2393802. Links to BlackWingCat's kernel & MS VC++ 2010 SP1 are already mentioned in this topic.
They are pretty safe, especially the older version of BlackWingCat's kernel (v5) can be said to be perfectly stable as I don't think any issues with it have been reported.

So should this version of Firefox not work in Windows 2000? It works fine here ;)

Edited by tomasz86, 02 February 2012 - 09:26 PM.

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#8
ppgrainbow

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You can find WildBill's kernel at bristols updates list. Look for KB2393802. Links to BlackWingCat's kernel & MS VC++ 2010 SP1 are already mentioned in this topic.
They are pretty safe, especially the older version of BlackWingCat's kernel (v5) can be said to be perfectly stable as I don't think any issues with it have been reported.

So should this version of Firefox not work in Windows 2000? It works fine here ;)


Thanks for the help. :) I downloaded KB2393082 and I will need to back up the data incase I screw up. :) Now, I'm gonna try to find BlackWingCat's MSVC++ 2010 SP1 files also.

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#9
blackwingcat

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Does anyone know how to download central version (v13) Firefox source code ?

"hg clone http://hg.mozilla.org/l10n-central/ targetdir" would not work.
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#10
blackwingcat

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I try to run firefox v13 on Kernel v11 environment.
(* note v11(JP)kernel can't apply English environment.)

Does Firefox 13(VC++2010 build version work on WIndows 2000 ?

Posted Image

Posted Image

It seems not to have a problem. :)

Not being supported does not mean that it won't work...

In case it's compiled in VS 2010 you can just either:

1) Install BlackWingCat's MS VC++ 2010 SP1.
2) Install WildBill's kernel or BlackWingCat's kernel.


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BlackWingCat =^^=
http://blog.livedoor.jp/blackwingcat/
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#11
ppgrainbow

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Thanks for trying to run the 2012-02-03 trunk Nightly build of Firefox 13 on Win2k with the Kernel v11 environment! :D

I was hoping that there is a English language version of Kernel v11 soon.

Along with EncodePointer and DecodePointer what other entry point APIs will it use that don't exist on Win2k? :\

AVA Direct FX AM3+ specs: Zalman ZM Z9-U3 Black Mid-Tower case / ASUS M5A97 R2.0 / AMD FX-4300 3.8 GHz quad-core processor / Fractal Design Integra R2 500W PSU/ Hyper 212 EVO CPU cooler / Western Digital BLACK SERIES 1 TB (WD1003FZEX) SATA III 7200 RPM / Lite-On iHas124 Black 24x DVD-RW / 8 GB Crucual (2 x 4GB) / StarTech SATA-to-CompactFlash Adapter (35BAYCF2SAT) / Ballistix Sport PC3-12800 DDR3 RAM / EVGA GeForce 8400 GS 520 MHz 1 GB GDDR3 / Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate SP2 x64


#12
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future version of Firefox was good , I want to know the basic seo tool which firefox provide in new version.

#13
Browncoat

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Can't find related news for the Seamonkey suite, still listed as "all windows".

#14
ppgrainbow

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Can't find related news for the Seamonkey suite, still listed as "all windows".


The SeaMonkey suite and all Mozilla-based apps are affected by this change. The announcement was made through mozilla.dev.apps.firefox and cross-posted elsewhere. The announcement regarding SeaMonkey can be found here: http://groups.google...dbd921b2565f33a

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#15
Browncoat

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I guess then I'll have to adapt, if I can't get Wild Bill's or BWC's kernel to work for me the only
alternative would be one copy of xp pro upgrade for this workstation,then nLite my 2000 CDs
and just use 2000 to run the capture cards in dedicated refurb computers and go to Linux full time.
I'm at least glad I have 'till June 5th.

#16
tomasz86

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Browncoat,

Have you tried any of these kernels yet? I really doubt you'll experience ANY issues with them. Both of them have been used for a pretty long time and all bugs were already fixed in the initial phase.

Edited by tomasz86, 04 February 2012 - 03:44 AM.

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#17
Browncoat

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I located WB's KB2393802.but I'm going to wait until I have another machine or backup boot drive
before to try it on. Thanks for all the work though.

#18
ppgrainbow

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I guess then I'll have to adapt, if I can't get Wild Bill's or BWC's kernel to work for me the only
alternative would be one copy of xp pro upgrade for this workstation,then nLite my 2000 CDs
and just use 2000 to run the capture cards in dedicated refurb computers and go to Linux full time.
I'm at least glad I have 'till June 5th.


I agree...but I don't know if contributors will be able to also build contributed versions of Firefox for OS/2 or eComStation after Firefox 12 and Win2K support both hit EOL. :(

I still have the Windows XP VM running under VMware Player. It's unclear to me if Firefox 13 will run on a processor that only has SSE2 instructions or that it will start requiring SSE3 (found on Pentium 4 HT processors or later). If Firefox 13 requires SSE3 users on Windows XP and Linux running on a computer that only has SSE2 support is going to be in a lot of trouble. I pretty much will most likely have to switch to Opera soon unless there are volunteer contributed hacks and workarounds to make VS2010-based Firefox working on Win2k.

I located WB's KB2393802.but I'm going to wait until I have another machine or backup boot drive
before to try it on. Thanks for all the work though.


I did too download WB's KB2393802 and I'm still looking for the direct link for blackwingcat's custom version of MSVC++ 2010 that will work on Win2k. Starting next week, RelEng will be getting ready to remove the Win2k support code from Gecko, because the code in the trunk is now dead since they switched to MSVC++ 2010 in the trunk Nightly.

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#19
Browncoat

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Well, when the time comes, I'll give Pale Moon a try, especially since it takes the same extentions
and if there is a PortableApps ™ version, I mean why not?
My password manager from Protecteer couldn't be any more awkward without the toolbar and
the company is dragging their a** by not going beyond FF 3.6.26.

#20
ppgrainbow

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Well, when the time comes, I'll give Pale Moon a try, especially since it takes the same extentions
and if there is a PortableApps ™ version, I mean why not?
My password manager from Protecteer couldn't be any more awkward without the toolbar and
the company is dragging their a** by not going beyond FF 3.6.26.


If a company is not going beyond Firefox 3.6, they'll be very unhappy to learn that Firefox 3.6 will be EOL'd on 24 April after 3.6.28. :(

I also don't know if Pale Moon will be able to build versions of their browser after version 12 since the switch to MSVC 2010 affects all Mozilla-based apps.

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#21
Browncoat

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I also don't know if Pale Moon will be able to build versions of their browser after version 12 since the switch to MSVC 2010 affects all Mozilla-based apps.


They're continuing with two forks/branches unlike Mozilla.

http://www.palemoon.org/

#22
WildBill

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If you go to my PE Tool thread, toward the bottom is a rather long list of all of the API's that were added with the latest KB2393802 and KB2408429 patches. EncodePointer and DecodePointer are in the list, and I've tested them pretty thoroughly. The API's to watch out for are the SxS activation context API's: I've been working like crazy to add them to KB2393802-v9, but it's an enormous job. Let's hope Gecko v.13 doesn't need them.

#23
Browncoat

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Dumb question...
Will this affect Thunderbird or is it time
to hunt for an alternative?

#24
ppgrainbow

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Dumb question...
Will this affect Thunderbird or is it time
to hunt for an alternative?


The change will effect all Mozilla-based apps, including Firefox, SeaMonkey and Thunderbird. Plus, developers are in the process of removing the now dead-support code for Windows 2000 from Gecko since MSVC 2010 is incompatible with Win2k.

AVA Direct FX AM3+ specs: Zalman ZM Z9-U3 Black Mid-Tower case / ASUS M5A97 R2.0 / AMD FX-4300 3.8 GHz quad-core processor / Fractal Design Integra R2 500W PSU/ Hyper 212 EVO CPU cooler / Western Digital BLACK SERIES 1 TB (WD1003FZEX) SATA III 7200 RPM / Lite-On iHas124 Black 24x DVD-RW / 8 GB Crucual (2 x 4GB) / StarTech SATA-to-CompactFlash Adapter (35BAYCF2SAT) / Ballistix Sport PC3-12800 DDR3 RAM / EVGA GeForce 8400 GS 520 MHz 1 GB GDDR3 / Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate SP2 x64


#25
erpdude8

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Dumb question...
Will this affect Thunderbird or is it time
to hunt for an alternative?


The change will effect all Mozilla-based apps, including Firefox, SeaMonkey and Thunderbird. Plus, developers are in the process of removing the now dead-support code for Windows 2000 from Gecko since MSVC 2010 is incompatible with Win2k.


more specifically, Thunderbird 13 and Seamonkey 2.10.x will start using MSVC 2010 code, which will officially drop win2k & pre-XPSP2 support.




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