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Four new Betas released today

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#1
Tripredacus

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Windows 8 Consumer Preview ISOs (English, Chinese simplified, German, French and Japanese) in x86 and x64:
Microsoft.com: Windows 8 Consumer Preview

Windows Server 8 Beta x64 and VHD!
Microsoft.com: Windows Server 8 Beta

Visual Studio 11 Express Beta for Windows 8 with Windows 8 SDK and Blend:
Microsoft.com: Visual Studio 11 Express Beta

Visual Studio 11 Ultimate Beta:
Microsoft.com: Visual Studio 11 Ultimate Beta

Repost from frontpage:
http://www.msfn.org/...a-bonanza-r8886

Update: Installing Windows 8 Consumer Preview:
http://arstechnica.c...isual-guide.ars

Edited by Tripredacus, 29 February 2012 - 12:16 PM.

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#2
Aloha

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Thanks for the announcement and the links. It will take time to download the setup. I must try it as soon as the downloading has finished.

Do you install it too? I'm afraid I'll need some suggestion. How should I install this version? By upgrading from the current WDP or installing it on a different partition? Which choice do you think is better?

Thanks again.

#3
JorgeA

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Thanks for the links Tripredacus :thumbup; I just finished downloading the ISO.

Do you install it too? I'm afraid I'll need some suggestion. How should I install this version? By upgrading from the current WDP or installing it on a different partition? Which choice do you think is better?

Thanks again.

@Aloha

I'm not too clear on whether you need to install the CP in a different partition or if you can upgrade from DP. I've seen both positions stated.

Personally, I have the DP on a partition in a secondary PC that came with Windows 7. I'm inclined to create a third partition for the CP, that way I can go back and forth to compare the versions.

--JorgeA

#4
CoffeeFiend

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There's never been an OS I disliked as much as Win8 so far

-It makes multitasking a nightmare
-The dual metro/desktop thing is as a lot of people put it "disjointed" at best
-Metro apps are surprisingly quite slow to load (the weather app often fails to load the default city altogether as well)
-Using metro apps with a mouse is an exercise in frustration (just drag this thing across the entire screen!) which only the keyboard can only somewhat tame
-Most of the included apps seem to be little more than using a "MS Live" web page but launched via Metro, but without any advantages
-Why do I need to signup for Live for everything? Mail? No thanks, I'll just go to gmail.
-Calendar? I have to sign in on Live for this? Well, we've got Outlook already for that at work, and at home I'd sooner use Google's
-Maps seems to be just Bing maps and Google's are far superior (and yet again work on any OS by opening a tab in your browser), etc
-The video player seems pretty much worthless
-The search results on the Metro screen sucks quite a bit compared to Win7's start menu search results (nevermind the UI is beyond awful)
-Everything seems to take more clicks to get at in general, it just gets in your way of getting work done
-Everything feels a bit clunky (scroll up and down to side scroll the Metro start thing? Seriously?)
-Even on a touch device, using corners for start/charms just sucks
-Metro is little more than something that gets in the way of the desktop
...

This is the very first Microsoft OS which not only offers no actual improvements whatsoever but is also a big step back in so many ways. I definitely won't be using it either at home or work.
Coffee: \ˈkȯ-fē, ˈkä-\. noun. Heaven in a cup. Life's only treasure. The meaning of life. Kaffee ist wunderbar. C8H10N4O2 FTW.

#5
Aloha

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Personally, I have the DP on a partition in a secondary PC that came with Windows 7. I'm inclined to create a third partition for the CP, that way I can go back and forth to compare the versions.

But the WDP will expire soon, you can't keep it for comparison for long.

OK, the downloading here was finished just a few minutes ago. I've decided to install this WCP onto the WDP. I am not sure how much the registry and the user account will be changed, so I need to finish some other stuff and do some backup first. Perhaps I'll have my computer ready for the installation at weekend!

I've enjoyed reading your posts and others' discussions about WDP and I'd like to read your experience of this WCP too. Thanks.


-Metro apps are surprisingly quite slow to load (the weather app often fails to load the default city altogether as well)

Then I guess I'll have to uninstall and unpin almost everything on the Metro Start again! Thank you for the very first preview.

Edited by Aloha, 29 February 2012 - 11:22 PM.


#6
Tripredacus

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This is the very first Microsoft OS which not only offers no actual improvements whatsoever but is also a big step back in so many ways. I definitely won't be using it either at home or work.


I think MS would be wise to create a workstation version of the next OS for people like us.

Some preview articles I have read say there is a hidden start button in the lower left that can get you access to the standard desktop.

No I haven't tried it yet. I may tomorrow. Although I do not actually use the Desktop interface anymore in my day-to-day work, I do make use of the taskbar.
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#7
MagicAndre1981

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the VS11 looks soooooooooo ugly :thumbdown :puke:
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#8
Tripredacus

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the VS11 looks soooooooooo ugly :thumbdown :puke:


Hmmm does it support the achievements? :w00t:
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#9
MagicAndre1981

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this strange addon? I don't know. I uninstalled it already. 107 points for nothing. I don't see any real sense in this addon.
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#10
Tripredacus

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this strange addon? I don't know. I uninstalled it already. 107 points for nothing. I don't see any real sense in this addon.


I think it was just supposed to be a joke. :whistle:
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#11
CoffeeFiend

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the VS11 looks soooooooooo ugly :thumbdown :puke:


Hmmm does it support the achievements? :w00t:

Well, VS11 needs new archievements like Compiles code that doesn't run on XP. Seriously, I don't know how they think they can get away with it.

But yeah, it's quite a let down as well.
Coffee: \ˈkȯ-fē, ˈkä-\. noun. Heaven in a cup. Life's only treasure. The meaning of life. Kaffee ist wunderbar. C8H10N4O2 FTW.

#12
JorgeA

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Personally, I have the DP on a partition in a secondary PC that came with Windows 7. I'm inclined to create a third partition for the CP, that way I can go back and forth to compare the versions.

But the WDP will expire soon, you can't keep it for comparison for long.

OK, the downloading here was finished just a few minutes ago. I've decided to install this WCP onto the WDP. I am not sure how much the registry and the user account will be changed, so I need to finish some other stuff and do some backup first. Perhaps I'll have my computer ready for the installation at weekend!

I've enjoyed reading your posts and others' discussions about WDP and I'd like to read your experience of this WCP too. Thanks.

Aloha,

Thanks for the kind words. I didn't get a chance to actually install CP yet but hope to do it tomorrow or Saturday, and then offer some thoughts to complement what MagicAndre and CoffeeFiend have already contributed.

There was a Windows Update for the DP that extended the expiration date till January 2013. I read somewhere that it's the same date when the CP is set to expire.

--JorgeA

#13
CoffeeFiend

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I think MS would be wise to create a workstation version of the next OS for people like us.

Yes. With a sane user interface, not this Metro garbage.

Oh, and here's another idea: have some actual improvements too. That would be a great idea IMO. Every version of Windows before that had some, so why not this one too?

I mean, yes, they there are new features but:
-Metro? That's totally a huge step backwards. I'd rather use crappy old XP's shell over that, or GNOME 2, or KDE, or OS X, or... just about anything else.
-IE10: Yes, Chrome/Firefox downloader version 10 is a must have :rolleyes:
-Hyper-V which almost nobody uses, is no match to VMWare's offerings, and that requires SLAT support on your CPU which means you basically need a new computer, and it just might be only available in the enterprise/ultimate editions
-Reset: you still have to backup everything, and a solid OS shouldn't really need this often anyway. Besides, you really can't trust it if your machine is infected with malware (virus infected the reinstaller). And then you still need to reinstall everything and apply all the updates and reconfigure everything. Not much gained over just using a clean system restore point either.
-Windows To Go: seemingly only in the enterprise edition, and it's not so much a "feature" but just a way to boot
-WOA: This will be a complete disaster, pure and simple.

I dunno. How about some actual improvements instead?
-Canceling print jobs that actually works! Even if it requires new driver model. And how about it supporting things like ink levels natively or better color management?
-Reading from damaged CDs & DVDs without the system freezing -- and while you're at it, give us a decent burning app for once
-Windows Media Player/Center supporting subtitles, lossless audio formats (like native FLAC support with seeking), or not having to edit the registry to get media center to see MKV files?
-Something better than notepad. See notepad++, notepad2, ultraedit, editplus and many, many others.
-Something better than paint. Seriously. I don't expect Photoshop here.
-A better explorer. How about dual panes? Being able to pause/resume large file job/move jobs? Generating lists of files as text, csv or html? File hashing?
-How about adding version management to the OS? Like a built-in TortoiseSVN of sorts, or like Apple's "versions"?
-A duplicate file finder (or as an addon to explorer). A comparison tool would be nice too.
-A better photo management/viewer app, like Adobe Bridge, Aperture, Acdsee, iPhoto and many others
-A better system cleaner (see CCleaner, nCleaner, fCleaner, etc) and why not a secure ease function?
-A better shell than cmd.exe
-Something less ghetto than the built-in zip file thing for archives. See 7zip, WinRAR, etc.
-Something along the lines of Apple's mission control/exposé/spaces, virtual desktops and all that, done right
-Better speech synthesis voices. Seriously, Anna sucks. As a developer you need to rely very heavily on SSML to make it say things.
-Have remote desktop be usable for at least one remote user when someone's logged in, or having the "host" in home premium? Even Apple lets you do this for free
-Some sort of unified updater for all your software (like the current Update thing in Win7, but where ISVs could add updates to their own apps too)
-Supporting more filesystems, including something not as crappy as FAT32 but which *all* devices can use i.e. not exFAT
-getting rid of thumbs.db and desktop.ini files all over the place
-How about some nice extras like the "Plus!" pack had back then, like nice screen savers and themes, new fun games and what not
-Centralize and restructure everything management and administration related (Control Panel + MMC + various other dialogs and places)
-A system-wide spellchecker everywhere you type
-Improve the modern but extremely awful windows dialog for scanning documents (I'll take TWAIN again over this any day)
-Something to synchronize files, a basic but decent FTP client, and a good download manager too
-Make Windows media player actually find relevant results when it searches for an album by artist & album name online
etc. There could be *so* much more stuff on this list really.

There's tons of stuff that needs improving rather badly and almost all of it goes ignored (the *only* thing they seem to have addressed is mounting ISO images). Meanwhile, we get a phone touch-based interface that simply doesn't work crammed down our throats, and we'd have to pay $100+ for the privilege too! Work on issues like those on this list, then possibly add some sort of *optional* touch interface and it would easily be the best Windows ever, and by far.
Coffee: \ˈkȯ-fē, ˈkä-\. noun. Heaven in a cup. Life's only treasure. The meaning of life. Kaffee ist wunderbar. C8H10N4O2 FTW.

#14
nitroshift

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Installed in in a VM, deleted the VM within 5 minutes. I just don't get this Metro hype Microsoft is trying to push on us. I'm using a PC, not a magnified tablet! And there are many, MANY other things I could complain about, but CoffeeFiend already summed them up pretty well. I am going to be using Windows 7 that actually DOES THE JOB, both at work and at home until the next Windows will come up (IF it will ever come up before Microsoft will leave the scene).



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Please read the rules, folks!


#15
JorgeA

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Yes. With a sane user interface, not this Metro garbage.

Here's a ray of hope:

As promised the first thing I looked for was a way within Group Policy or otherwise to set the desktop as the default UI. I’d been privately told by a couple of ‘softies that such a feature would indeed exist, but no matter how deep I looked I couldn’t find it. However references to the ‘classic’ Start Menu still exist in Group Policy so it is only a matter of time before some hacks appear to allow you to set the desktop as the default UI and, no doubt, have a selection of on or off Start Menus.


--JorgeA

#16
MagicAndre1981

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I discovered the setting in some of the early 79xx Builds, but this only applies to Server with Desktop Experiencing Role. If you don't install the Desktop-Exp Role Server boots to desktop, but if you add the role it boots this Metro-thing.

Edited by MagicAndre1981, 02 March 2012 - 08:07 AM.

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#17
JorgeA

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Well, I ran into a roadblock trying to set up a new partition for the CP. Disk Management told me it could not create it because I already had the maximum number of partitions on the hard disk. (In addition to Windows 7 and the DP, it contains a recovery partition and a 100MB system partition.)

I was following the instructions given here (for the DP, but the version shouldn't matter), using all the default settings (new simple volume, quick format, etc.) and a partition size of 40GB.

Unless I can find a way around this, it looks like I'll have to either wipe out the DP or do without the CP. :}

--JorgeA

#18
Tripredacus

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-Canceling print jobs that actually works! Even if it requires new driver model.


This right here is possibly one of the longest lasting bugs. Its the worst thing when a print job gets stuck for some reason. And then they handily give you options like Restart, Cancel, whatever but they rarely work when the job is stuck. Then you have to go through the process of rebooting the printer and/or computer and hope and pray that the print job goes away!

-A better shell than cmd.exe


What about the PowerShell prompt? I never use it myself...

-getting rid of thumbs.db and desktop.ini files all over the place


Thumbs was definately a scourge during XP, but I haven't noticed it too much in 7. As far as Desktop.ini, it is one reason why I don't choose the option to show hidden files, since when you do you get two desktop.ini on the Desktop. I know why they are there but come on...

Speaking of which, what if there was a way to show hidden files just in certain folders? Say i want to see everything in the Windows folder or AppData, but I don't need to see everything else unless I want to!

In addition to Windows 7 and the DP, it contains a recovery partition and a 100MB system partition


That's because you have 3 primary partitions already. Your Win7, Win8 and recovery partition are primary. So that's likely what your limit is. Try using a VHD install instead to a USB key/HDD.
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#19
JorgeA

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In addition to Windows 7 and the DP, it contains a recovery partition and a 100MB system partition


That's because you have 3 primary partitions already. Your Win7, Win8 and recovery partition are primary. So that's likely what your limit is. Try using a VHD install instead to a USB key/HDD.

Tripredacus,

Hmm, I've never used a virtual drive before. Not something I've explored. Guess there's always a first time, but this means learning how to do that before I can try out the Win8 CP. Bummer.

Wish it were possible to try a live DVD with Windows as you can with so many Linux distros. Having downloaded and burned the Win8 CP ISO to a disc, I wonder if something like this might work.

--JorgeA

#20
MagicAndre1981

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use VHD Boot:

http://www.hanselman...alHardDisk.aspx

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#21
CoffeeFiend

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What about the PowerShell prompt? I never use it myself...

PowerShell runs as any other program, under crappy old cme.exe, but yes, there's the PowerShell ISE as well. Still, cmd.exe kinda sucks.

Thumbs was definately a scourge during XP, but I haven't noticed it too much in 7

On a network with both OS'es mixed you still see plenty of it...

As far as Desktop.ini, it is one reason why I don't choose the option to show hidden files, since when you do you get two desktop.ini on the Desktop. I know why they are there but come on...

If you delete them enough times they actually go away. But yes, totally an unnecessary pain.

Speaking of which, what if there was a way to show hidden files just in certain folders? Say i want to see everything in the Windows folder or AppData, but I don't need to see everything else unless I want to!

I'm not aware of such a feature unfortunately.
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#22
5eraph

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-getting rid of thumbs.db and desktop.ini files all over the place

Thumbs was definately a scourge during XP, but I haven't noticed it too much in 7.

On a network with both OS'es mixed you still see plenty of it...

The thumbnail cache can be disabled in XP and Win7 with any of the following registry entry codes. A reboot may be required.

INF
HKCU,"Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Advanced","DisableThumbnailCache",0x10001,1
REG
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Advanced]
"DisableThumbnailCache"=dword:00000001
CMD
REG ADD "HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Advanced" /F /V "DisableThumbnailCache" /T REG_DWORD /D 1

Edited by 5eraph, 02 March 2012 - 05:10 PM.


#23
CoffeeFiend

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The thumbnail cache can be disabled in XP and Win7 with any of the following registry entry codes.

Yes, I'm aware of that. But again, it just takes the one user without it, and your network shares will be chuck full of the said garbage files. Too much hassle :(

Then again, it's not the biggest issue on my list. Not by a long shot. And that list isn't remotely complete either. I'm just saying that there is so much stuff that really needs to be solved and work out of the box, some of it which has been an issue for over a decade, and instead they give us this Metro crap we don't want of. Instead of making what they had (desktop) shine, they turned the desktop in a big mess (screwing up everything they had) to hopefully gain traction in the mobile space which won't happen anyway: they've never done well, their marketing sucks, their online services suck, they have a tendency to just kill their own products (Zune? PlaysForSure? Windows Mobile? Kin? etc), and here they offer absolutely *nothing* over Android or iOS devices which are both mature, well entrenched, and have tons of nice apps. The only way to win is not to play.
Coffee: \ˈkȯ-fē, ˈkä-\. noun. Heaven in a cup. Life's only treasure. The meaning of life. Kaffee ist wunderbar. C8H10N4O2 FTW.

#24
JorgeA

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use VHD Boot:

http://www.hanselman...alHardDisk.aspx

Posted Image

MagicAndre,

Thank you very much, that did the trick! :thumbup

And thanks @Tripredacus for suggesting this approach. :yes:

Now the boot screen gives three OS choices. B)

You know what I'll be doing this weekend...

--JorgeA

#25
Tripredacus

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And thanks @Tripredacus for suggesting this approach. :yes:


Some day I'll learn how to do that myself, but I have yet to determine a use for that technology in my work.
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