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Resurrecting a 1999-Vintage Win98SE Machine

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#51
dencorso

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#52
TELVM

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No, there's no reason to prefer XMSDSK. Since the CENATEK RD works OK for you, you should stick to it and move on. This means you've reached the definitive setup for the dino, doesn't it? If so, congratulations! :yes:


Well there is always some potential fiddling remaining :angel , but the 98 is now running fairly well in the dino :yes: .

I installed XP Pro SP3 in the second partition and that went very smoothly, without any problems neither with the USB 2.0 card nor with a recently inserted RTL8029AS Ethernet card. Working now on the internet connection. I'm surprised how decently the old PII Deschutes 350/100 @434/124 with 768MB RAM moves XP ; I was expecting a barely bearable slowness at best, but it runs reasonably well with not too much disk scratching :rolleyes: .

To flog the old horse a bit more I tried this ancient trick to increase voltage in Slot 1 CPUs. It worked, raising from 2.0 to 2.2V ...

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... but although the dino POSTs and boots at 466/133, both 98 & XP freeze on desktop. Time for a PIII Coppermine closer to 1GHz I think :lol: .



BTW, I'm searching for some game recording software (à la FRAPS) that works under Win98, without success thus far. ¿Where can I find it?

#53
TELVM

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Finally managed to connect the dino to the internet. With the latest Firefox it browses at an irksome pace, but does browse :) . Only from XP though, as to keep traditions the RTL8029AS card generates IRQ conflicts and I've had to disable it in 98 :rolleyes: .


BTW to remove the well entrenched 'Network Neighborhood' icon from the 98 desktop, we go to registry HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\Explorer\ , (if as in my case there isn't an 'Explorer' folder under 'Policies', we just create it), then under 'Explorer' we create a new DWORD value called ' NoNetHood ', set its value to 1 , and next boot that icon is gone.

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Edited by TELVM, 01 April 2012 - 03:53 AM.


#54
TELVM

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Got some dinosaurian steroids. First a PIII Katmai 450/100, which overclocked like a champ to 600/133:

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Then a Coppermine 1000/133 with MSI slotket:

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Windows 98 runs fairly well now :) .

However I think I'm gonna try to hunt some Tualatin 1400S, got wind they can be hacked into 440BX mobos :angel .

#55
Drugwash

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Do you happen to have a manual/datasheet for that MSI slocket? Mine is v2.3 and the only manual I could find does not match the actual jumpers on the PCB. I think I might have fried a couple CPUs while testing it, because of wrong jumper connections (unless it was already defective when I got it).

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#56
TELVM

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There is this online pdf: MS-6905 CPU Converter Board

Some more good info here: MS-6905 meets the Tualeron Mod


Are you trying a Tualatin in a 440BX board, Drugwash? If so maybe it's the pin mod scheme what is giving you trouble, there are several different schemes and some work better than others on each different board.

#57
Drugwash

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Thanks, I found that japanese site soon after posting here. Apparently the jumpers match but there's still no mention about J2, whether it should be open or else - they only say "reserved", but nothing about its default state.

I'm not trying anything fancy because that's the only adaptor I got (and I read a lot about those Tualatin mods these days, I know about cutting pins, nail polish, drilling through, etc) - all I want is a working setup for a potential replacement of my Slot1 667MHz CPU. However, al I got here is a 1000MHz Celeron with 100MHz FSB which is not worth the bother since the 667 has a 133 FSB and it's a PIIIE Coppermine not a Celeron. I do have a Tualatin Celeron (Tualeron, Celertin as they used to call it as overclockers.com and elsewhere) but that one is also a FSB 100 (@ 1300MHz speed) and I wouldn't want to destroy my adapter for it. The only worthy replacement would be the Coppermine 1000/133 in my HP Vectra, but I've not yet decided whether I'll downgrade that machine.

Besides, my board is a Soyo SY-6VBA133 which is VIA-based and I read the guys didn't have much luck with modded Tualatins on the VIA chipsets anyway. But being my main machine I'd rather play it as safe as possible.

(just fixed a minor typo) (somebody should fix the board - it's inserting plain HTML tags when Quick Edit is used under IE).

Edited by Drugwash, 12 June 2012 - 04:52 PM.


#58
TELVM

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Can't find any info on J2 jumper function, it's always 'hanging' or directly missing in these slotkets.

Short of the Tuallys I'd get a 1000/256/133 Coppermine. Larger cache than Celeron, higher FSB as is, and decent OC potential.

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1 MHz Coppermines Slot-370 are aplenty and cost nothing nowadays.

#59
Drugwash

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Can't find any info on J2 jumper function, it's always 'hanging' or directly missing in these slotkets.

One shallow mention I found on the Lunchbox page you linked to above, but it may be related to the mod. My hunch is that it may be the one that enables lower voltage range but in this domain we work with certainties, not hunches.

Short of the Tuallys I'd get a 1000/256/133 Coppermine. Larger cache than Celeron, higher FSB as is, and decent OC potential.

That's what I got on the Vectra. That used to be a good machine but the HDD crapped out, developed 4000+ bad sectors and not even multiple repair sessions with HDD Regenerator and HDAT2 couldn't fix it back. Freakin' ironically, after years of usage, few days ago I just found out that the HDD is actually 40GB not 20GB as the additional label said! And this appears to be (or have been) common practice for many OEMs when they had a large order and no direct match at hand.

1 MHz Coppermines Slot-370 are aplenty and cost nothing nowadays.

Not in this country, amigo. Not in this country... :(

#60
TELVM

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Coppermines 1000 socket370 at Ebay.be



Here's an unconventional solution for replacing the HDD in old IDE comps (aka 'The Poor Man's SSD'):

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Works like a charm in my dino.

Edited by TELVM, 12 June 2012 - 08:59 PM.


#61
Drugwash

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Coppermines 1000 socket370 at Ebay.be

I know the flag here is similar but I'm not in Belgium (unfortunately). I'm not even sure we're allowed on eBay.

Here's an unconventional solution for replacing the HDD in old IDE comps (aka 'The Poor Man's SSD'): <snip>
Works like a charm in my dino.

You don't know what 'poor' means (and I hope you never find out). <sigh>

Nevertheless, thank you for the suggestions - it's good to know the available options, in case the opportunity comes up. For now, I'll stick with what works and leave drastic measures for later, when time comes.

#62
TELVM

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I know the flag here is similar but I'm not in Belgium ...


My fault :blushing: , scuze prieten.

#63
Drugwash

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Oh, no need to apologyze, it's a fairly common confusion, happened to me too, a few times. :)
Don't worry, I know my place in the world is somewhere down the line. But let's not make it off-topic. ;)

Anyway, it's good info and someone might find it useful. :thumbup Muchas gracias! B)

#64
MiKl

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Hi guys,
the other day I have gotten some 'old' hardware and one was a HP Compac d530 with a Intel 865 chipset.
First I thought cool but then ran into the usb-issues as well.

So I tried the ACPIoption registry patch but after reboot there was now an exclamation mark on plug'n'play bios
and almost none of the hardware was found.
When looking into the BIOS I was shocked because I have never seen such a weird one.
I also installed the latest BIOS but there was no progress.

I think (!) I found were to disbale ACPI but nothing for APM and PNP OS.
Does anyone maybe know what to do ?
If possible I would prefer to not deactivate any hardware with the device manager.

Best,

Mikl


Edit: I have unpacked NUSB 5.3 and let Windows grab the USB drivers.
Cool and thanks for all the great stuff and knowledge that can be found here !!!

Edited by MiKl, 28 June 2012 - 06:06 PM.


#65
TELVM

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Ha, finally managed to run a Tualatin 1400-S in the good ol' 440BX board :thumbup .

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Edited by TELVM, 06 July 2012 - 05:18 AM.


#66
Foxbat

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Wow. You managed to run a Tualatin on an old 440BX. Not even my newer 815 can do that. Coppermine is as far as it can go.

How much performance overhead is lost to the slotcket? Does it actually run as fast as a native 1GHz Coppermine or better?

#67
TELVM

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How much performance overhead is lost to the slotcket?


Honestly no idea.

Does it actually run as fast as a native 1GHz Coppermine or better?


I'd say it runs a bit better. Kicks the buttocks of a P4 2400 in some Aida64 tests as a matter of fact.

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#68
submix8c

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I really hope it holds up... you're pushing it overclocking to 150mhz. The life of the RAM and CPU will shorten (but you know that already). I imagine you have great cooling too...

Someday the tyrants will be unthroned... Jason "Jay" Chasteen; RIP, bro!

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#69
TELVM

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You can't live forever.

But overkill cooling helps a long life.

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#70
Foxbat

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I see the thermal performance of the case is much improved. You've cut out the rear grill, modded a hole towards the bottom front of the case, added vented drive covers, and pointed the CPU heatsink fan to blow into the motherboard. All the fans appear to be moderately slow fans though. The slotcket looks like a solid windproof wall, preventing horizontal airflow and creating a pocket of heated air underneath the heastsink fan. The PSU should help facilitate vertical airflow along the wall, but on the other side of it, the exhaust fan could be fighting with the PSU fan, perhaps breaking up the flow. I wouldn't imagine an overclocked 440BX producing much heat, unlike todays systems where TDP can exceed 400 watts or more, so it's probably running comfortably.

I'm amazed that a slot board with a slotcket and a Tualatin can outperform a P4 running natively. Makes me wonder if I should try to find an FCPGA2 Tualatin adapter for my 815 board... but then I might as well buy a whole mobo instead.

#71
TELVM

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Cool, I love educated discussion on cooling :w00t: .

... All the fans appear to be moderately slow fans though ...


In fact all the fans are throttled down to reduce noise (hate noisy comps).

The slotcket looks like a solid windproof wall, preventing horizontal airflow and creating a pocket of heated air underneath the heastsink fan.


You've touched it with a needle, Slot-1 is not good for cooling (the slotcket acts as a wall in the flow path, conventional Slot-1 heatsinks tipically obstruct northbridge chip cooling, etc).

To secure the correct flow path (low front to high rear) I sealed every other opening in the case (sides, floor, top, and every opening in the rear unless extractor fans). After that it's just a matter of tuning the fans RPM to get the required total cfm with minimun noise.

The PSU should help facilitate vertical airflow along the wall, but on the other side of it, the exhaust fan could be fighting with the PSU fan, perhaps breaking up the flow.


I drilled as low as possible, but the new rear 120 fan had to be relatively close to the PSU fan. I worried too about both fans 'fighting for air' in detriment of total flow, and considered drilling the top and flippng the PSU upside down.

In the end empirically they work OK together and as you say the PSU fan helps with 'turning the wall'.

I wouldn't imagine an overclocked 440BX producing much heat, unlike todays systems where TDP can exceed 400 watts or more, so it's probably running comfortably.


Yeah, at 33W TDP a Tualatin 1400-S is really small game, just with the minimal gadgets posted above you can keep it at 48C / 118F under torture while at 29C / 84F ambient. Notice I didn't even bother with intake fans, no real need.

The 440BX VRM 8.4 mosfets can be more of a problem however. They were designed for Coppermines, get extra stress with the Tualatin, and can fry if we don't take extra cooling measures.

I'm amazed that a slot board with a slotcket and a Tualatin can outperform a P4 running natively. Makes me wonder if I should try to find an FCPGA2 Tualatin adapter for my 815 board... but then I might as well buy a whole mobo instead.


Man this board has me astonished :blink: . Good ol' 440BX is truly a legend :thumbup .

#72
dencorso

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Changing subjects a little, you're aware it's quite easy to do away or change the "Fabricado y con soporte de:" for another phrase not exceeding the number of characters of the original, with a simple hexedit in sysdm.cpl, right?

#73
TELVM

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It's funny, I modify the text in sysdm.cpl and the first time I right click sys properties it shows OK, but afterwards it comes back again to the original text. Some Windows file integrity policing I guess?

#74
dencorso

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Try replacing it in C:\WINDOWS\SYSBCKUPS (if it's not there put a copy of the modded one there), then in C:\WINDOWS\OPTIONS\CABS, and last in C:\WINDOWS. Does it still get back?
And, BTW, when hexediting it, take care to replace any unwanted character (for me that meant all of them -- I just wanted to remove the string) by hexadecimal 20 (which is <space>), so as not to change the size of the string. If the size changes windows will see the file as corrupt.

#75
dw2108

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Since your PC is 1999, you might want to consider instead of XP some Basic Linux 3.5, MicroLinux, TinyCore which reqire no separate partition and run off an image file. These use abot 20 MB RAM, and Sindi Keeson and others have the very best drivers -- all this being freeware. From within this you can run even win9x, 3.x, 2.x, 200x, XP, Vista and 7withe Wine or QEMU. And since it's all UMSDOS, you can simply delete it if you do not like it. You can load it even from two 1.44 floppies. The drivers are MUCH easier on old hardware and give MUCH better performance. IT WILL EXTEND THE LIFE OF THE PC BY SEVERAL YEARS. And with win emulators, you don't have to spend any time with LINUX.

Just a tho't on keeping the good ole hardware and even new hardware running as long as possible, And no more searching for hardware drivers since a great deal of SlackWare works.

Best,
Dave

Edited by dw2108, 11 July 2012 - 12:58 PM.





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