[Drugwash]

TELVM, on 12 June 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

Coppermines 1000 socket370 at Ebay.be

I know the flag here is similar but I'm not in Belgium (unfortunately). I'm not even sure we're allowed on eBay.

TELVM said:

Here's an unconventional solution for replacing the HDD in old IDE comps (aka 'The Poor Man's SSD'): <snip>
Works like a charm in my dino.

You don't know what 'poor' means (and I hope you never find out). <sigh>

Nevertheless, thank you for the suggestions - it's good to know the available options, in case the opportunity comes up. For now, I'll stick with what works and leave drastic measures for later, when time comes.

[TELVM]

Drugwash, on 13 June 2012 - 01:52 AM, said:

I know the flag here is similar but I'm not in Belgium ...

My fault , scuze prieten.

[Drugwash]

Oh, no need to apologyze, it's a fairly common confusion, happened to me too, a few times.
Don't worry, I know my place in the world is somewhere down the line. But let's not make it off-topic.

Anyway, it's good info and someone might find it useful. Muchas gracias!

[MiKl]

Hi guys,
the other day I have gotten some 'old' hardware and one was a HP Compac d530 with a Intel 865 chipset.
First I thought cool but then ran into the usb-issues as well.

So I tried the ACPIoption registry patch but after reboot there was now an exclamation mark on plug'n'play bios
and almost none of the hardware was found.
When looking into the BIOS I was shocked because I have never seen such a weird one.
I also installed the latest BIOS but there was no progress.

I think (!) I found were to disbale ACPI but nothing for APM and PNP OS.
Does anyone maybe know what to do ?
If possible I would prefer to not deactivate any hardware with the device manager.

Best,

Mikl


Edit: I have unpacked NUSB 5.3 and let Windows grab the USB drivers.
Cool and thanks for all the great stuff and knowledge that can be found here !!!

This post has been edited by MiKl: 28 June 2012 - 06:06 PM

[TELVM]

Ha, finally managed to run a Tualatin 1400-S in the good ol' 440BX board .

This post has been edited by TELVM: 06 July 2012 - 05:18 AM

[Foxbat]

Wow. You managed to run a Tualatin on an old 440BX. Not even my newer 815 can do that. Coppermine is as far as it can go.

How much performance overhead is lost to the slotcket? Does it actually run as fast as a native 1GHz Coppermine or better?

[TELVM]

Foxbat, on 07 July 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

How much performance overhead is lost to the slotcket?

Honestly no idea.

Foxbat, on 07 July 2012 - 12:39 AM, said:

Does it actually run as fast as a native 1GHz Coppermine or better?

I'd say it runs a bit better. Kicks the buttocks of a P4 2400 in some Aida64 tests as a matter of fact.

[submix8c]

I really hope it holds up... you're pushing it overclocking to 150mhz. The life of the RAM and CPU will shorten (but you know that already). I imagine you have great cooling too...

[TELVM]

You can't live forever.

But overkill cooling helps a long life.

[Foxbat]

I see the thermal performance of the case is much improved. You've cut out the rear grill, modded a hole towards the bottom front of the case, added vented drive covers, and pointed the CPU heatsink fan to blow into the motherboard. All the fans appear to be moderately slow fans though. The slotcket looks like a solid windproof wall, preventing horizontal airflow and creating a pocket of heated air underneath the heastsink fan. The PSU should help facilitate vertical airflow along the wall, but on the other side of it, the exhaust fan could be fighting with the PSU fan, perhaps breaking up the flow. I wouldn't imagine an overclocked 440BX producing much heat, unlike todays systems where TDP can exceed 400 watts or more, so it's probably running comfortably.

I'm amazed that a slot board with a slotcket and a Tualatin can outperform a P4 running natively. Makes me wonder if I should try to find an FCPGA2 Tualatin adapter for my 815 board... but then I might as well buy a whole mobo instead.

[TELVM]

Cool, I love educated discussion on cooling .

Foxbat, on 08 July 2012 - 02:32 AM, said:

... All the fans appear to be moderately slow fans though ...

In fact all the fans are throttled down to reduce noise (hate noisy comps).

Quote

The slotcket looks like a solid windproof wall, preventing horizontal airflow and creating a pocket of heated air underneath the heastsink fan.

You've touched it with a needle, Slot-1 is not good for cooling (the slotcket acts as a wall in the flow path, conventional Slot-1 heatsinks tipically obstruct northbridge chip cooling, etc).

To secure the correct flow path (low front to high rear) I sealed every other opening in the case (sides, floor, top, and every opening in the rear unless extractor fans). After that it's just a matter of tuning the fans RPM to get the required total cfm with minimun noise.

Quote

The PSU should help facilitate vertical airflow along the wall, but on the other side of it, the exhaust fan could be fighting with the PSU fan, perhaps breaking up the flow.

I drilled as low as possible, but the new rear 120 fan had to be relatively close to the PSU fan. I worried too about both fans 'fighting for air' in detriment of total flow, and considered drilling the top and flippng the PSU upside down.

In the end empirically they work OK together and as you say the PSU fan helps with 'turning the wall'.

Quote

I wouldn't imagine an overclocked 440BX producing much heat, unlike todays systems where TDP can exceed 400 watts or more, so it's probably running comfortably.

Yeah, at 33W TDP a Tualatin 1400-S is really small game, just with the minimal gadgets posted above you can keep it at 48C / 118F under torture while at 29C / 84F ambient. Notice I didn't even bother with intake fans, no real need.

The 440BX VRM 8.4 mosfets can be more of a problem however. They were designed for Coppermines, get extra stress with the Tualatin, and can fry if we don't take extra cooling measures.

Quote

I'm amazed that a slot board with a slotcket and a Tualatin can outperform a P4 running natively. Makes me wonder if I should try to find an FCPGA2 Tualatin adapter for my 815 board... but then I might as well buy a whole mobo instead.

Man this board has me astonished . Good ol' 440BX is truly a legend .

[dencorso]

Changing subjects a little, you're aware it's quite easy to do away or change the "Fabricado y con soporte de:" for another phrase not exceeding the number of characters of the original, with a simple hexedit in sysdm.cpl, right?

[TELVM]

It's funny, I modify the text in sysdm.cpl and the first time I right click sys properties it shows OK, but afterwards it comes back again to the original text. Some Windows file integrity policing I guess?

[dencorso]

Try replacing it in C:\WINDOWS\SYSBCKUPS (if it's not there put a copy of the modded one there), then in C:\WINDOWS\OPTIONS\CABS, and last in C:\WINDOWS. Does it still get back?
And, BTW, when hexediting it, take care to replace any unwanted character (for me that meant all of them -- I just wanted to remove the string) by hexadecimal 20 (which is <space>), so as not to change the size of the string. If the size changes windows will see the file as corrupt.

[dw2108]

Since your PC is 1999, you might want to consider instead of XP some Basic Linux 3.5, MicroLinux, TinyCore which reqire no separate partition and run off an image file. These use abot 20 MB RAM, and Sindi Keeson and others have the very best drivers -- all this being freeware. From within this you can run even win9x, 3.x, 2.x, 200x, XP, Vista and 7withe Wine or QEMU. And since it's all UMSDOS, you can simply delete it if you do not like it. You can load it even from two 1.44 floppies. The drivers are MUCH easier on old hardware and give MUCH better performance. IT WILL EXTEND THE LIFE OF THE PC BY SEVERAL YEARS. And with win emulators, you don't have to spend any time with LINUX.

Just a tho't on keeping the good ole hardware and even new hardware running as long as possible, And no more searching for hardware drivers since a great deal of SlackWare works.

Best,
Dave

This post has been edited by dw2108: 11 July 2012 - 12:58 PM

[TELVM]

dw2108, on 11 July 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

Since your PC is 1999, you might want to consider instead of XP some Basic Linux 3.5, MicroLinux, TinyCore which reqire no separate partition and run off an image file. These use abot 20 MB RAM, and Sindi Keeson and others have the very best drivers -- all this being freeware. From within this you can run even win9x, 3.x, 2.x, 200x, XP, Vista and 7withe Wine or QEMU. And since it's all UMSDOS, you can simply delete it if you do not like it. You can load it even from two 1.44 floppies. The drivers are MUCH easier on old hardware and give MUCH better performance.

That's very interesting stuff Dave , thanks. I'll try to explore it.

[TELVM]

Saharan heat here around, turboed the dino.





"Varrrooom! Its jet exhaust... frying chickens in the barnyard!"

[dencorso]

Wow!

[Foxbat]

The slot setup presents some very unique airflow characteristics, peferct for tweaking around. It seems you weren't with satisfied with the thermal performance. Now using the drive cage as a duct, and isolating the fan with foam. Have you isolated the exaust and PSU fan as well? The large intake grill holes look very airflow friendly, and certainly helps with the appearance than a complete open front.

Let's examine the top portion of the case. Generally, straight-through airflow would be ideal, but under this challenging setup there are many twists and turns. Airflow from the front may take the following paths:
-hit the RAM and the pocket of air from the HSF.
-flow through above the HS and meet with the vertically moving air along the slotcket wall, then turn towards the PSU, but contributing to cooling for the slotcket.
-flow around the HS, get sucked into the HS cooling the CPU, hit the motherboard and RAM, cooling a part of it, with some of that moving towards the slotcket wall, and others becoming recirculated air. With half the HS overhanging the mobo, air from that half would hit the case wall and wires, ending up as a pocket of air that impedes some incoming air from the front.

Your latest modification brings in some ambient air to the CPU, but it has to make many 90º turns along the way with Lots of back pressure. The high static pressure fan will certainly help to push air around those obstacles. Now this is interesting. I've vaguely heard of mounting a cone to a fan before. This is the first time I've seen it in use. It could help reduce some back pressure. What is the thermal performance so far? Does the cone mod contribute to any perceivable improvement?

[TELVM]

The extra intake fan wasn't really needed, max CPU temps at full throttle, even in the hottest days, never reached 50C / 122F. It's just that I'm a deranged freak and love fiddling .

From what I'm experiencing and what I read from other people who fiddled with Tuallys, seems Windows can't idle correctly the server Tualatins. Idle temps are abnormally high, 42C idle & 48C full throttle (while my OCed Coppermines idled at ~33 C). I really hated having to see an idle temp beggining with '4' , even in the hot of summer, so proceeded to kill mosquitoes with heavy artillery .



The grill comes from a '91 Mazda Miata NA.



Holes are large and pose minimal restriction to flow (just about half a degree of CPU temp empirically). Dino looks much better without a huge square hole in the front.



The golden front hub or spinner is some cosmetics flask plastic top. The black rear cone is cardboard cut & rolled to shape.

There is method in this madness!

The center part of an Arctic Cooling F12 fan, as it comes from the box (flat bow & flat stern) ...



... behaves aerodynamically like a short cylinder (drag coefficient ~1.15).



With hub and cone its shape gets closer to the subsonic ideal rain-drop streamlined body (cd ~0.04).

Big boys know this well:





I haven't scientifically measured the results of hub & cone, but I can tell with them the fan is less noisy at full RPM. Which means less turbulence, which means they do some good .



There is now a strong forced jetstream flowing straight thru the CPU heatsink.



Now at 27C ambient, CPU temps are 37C idle & 42C full throttle. Telvm happier .









The progression of the dinosaur as recorded by the venerable TestCPU in W98SE:

This post has been edited by TELVM: 15 July 2012 - 02:25 AM