WinWin

Any way to cannibalize the Windows 2000 mouse driver?

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I've been using Windows 2000 for over 10 years now and I've grown pretty accustomed to how the mouse behaves. There are gamers out there who have posted fixes all over the place for "mouse acceleration" removal from Windows XP, however the absence of all acceleration makes fine selection difficult or large sweeping motions to get the mouse across the screen. MS has had mouse acceleration built into all of their OSs and with each new one they changed it just a little. Just a little means using Windows XP to play games how I want is impossible. I either have to remove it all with a "fix" or live with how it is. Windows 2000 has it's own style and it's the one I've grown accustomed to and prefer. The problem is I can't replicate it on any other OS so I'm stuck using Windows 2000 if I want to play games how I wish.

So, I'm wondering, is there any way to copy over or replicate this portion of the OS so I can keep this behavior? I've tried doing things like copying over mouse.drv and msmouse.inf from the system folders but it seems to have no effect. Adusting SmoothMouseXYCurve values as shown here: http://www.sevenforums.com/hardware-devices/9035-windows-7-mouse-acceleration-help.html could possible do it if you knew what each value on the graph did and the values it would take to make it like Windows 2000. There's a GUI interface for MAC http://www.orderedbytes.com/controllermate/help/?show=example017 that does this, but not for Windows.

Hopefully somebody reads this and can help find a solution for this years old problem.

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I think the registry is referenced by win32k.sys.

There is no value in windows 2000, so you can't apply it with copy XP's binaries

(Don't copy XP's win32k.sys. It is different from XP's on with structure level)

I've been using Windows 2000 for over 10 years now and I've grown pretty accustomed to how the mouse behaves. There are gamers out there who have posted fixes all over the place for "mouse acceleration" removal from Windows XP, however the absence of all acceleration makes fine selection difficult or large sweeping motions to get the mouse across the screen. MS has had mouse acceleration built into all of their OSs and with each new one they changed it just a little. Just a little means using Windows XP to play games how I want is impossible. I either have to remove it all with a "fix" or live with how it is. Windows 2000 has it's own style and it's the one I've grown accustomed to and prefer. The problem is I can't replicate it on any other OS so I'm stuck using Windows 2000 if I want to play games how I wish.

So, I'm wondering, is there any way to copy over or replicate this portion of the OS so I can keep this behavior? I've tried doing things like copying over mouse.drv and msmouse.inf from the system folders but it seems to have no effect. Adusting SmoothMouseXYCurve values as shown here: http://www.sevenforums.com/hardware-devices/9035-windows-7-mouse-acceleration-help.html could possible do it if you knew what each value on the graph did and the values it would take to make it like Windows 2000. There's a GUI interface for MAC http://www.orderedbytes.com/controllermate/help/?show=example017 that does this, but not for Windows.

Hopefully somebody reads this and can help find a solution for this years old problem.

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Adusting SmoothMouseXYCurve values as shown here: http://www.sevenforums.com/hardware-devices/9035-windows-7-mouse-acceleration-help.html could possible do it if you knew what each value on the graph did and the values it would take to make it like Windows 2000.

Here is how it woks:

http://web.archive.org/web/20080305002750/http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/input/pointer-bal.mspx?

http://www.esreality.com/index.php?a=post&id=1945096

http://www.kotiposti.net/~d636961/WinAccel/

up to you to find the right settings (now that you know what each value mean)

jaclaz

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I remember trying a win32k.sys swap in an act of desperation and it didn't work out. By the way, I've read your blog and you have some great information there. Too bad I don't know Japanese that well and google translate only goes so far.

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Now to find a way to figure out about what the curves are in Windows 2000...

NO idea. :no:

Unless this "Mouse Movement Recorder" thingy also works in 2K :unsure::

http://donewmouseaccel.blogspot.it/

http://donewmouseaccel.blogspot.it/2010/04/markc-mouse-acceleration-fix-builder.html

http://donewmouseaccel.blogspot.it/2010/03/markc-windows-7-mouse-acceleration-fix.html

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz
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I too prefer win2k response/acceleration. You could try the Logitech or Microsoft drivers. Most intuitive of all pointing devices is the Wii Remote under Linux, but you can use the GlovePie driver in Win2000

Edited by Phenomic
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Windows 2000 mouse accel is described here:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc978664.aspx

... and here (excuse the translated Japanese and missing images):

http://translate.google.co.nz/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20101029202016%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Furawa.cool.ne.jp%2Ftb-works%2F37_Win_Mouse_Driv.htm

W2K (and prior) accel was a crude mechanism using 1 or two threshholds.

With no accel (MouseSpeed=0), mouse-to-pointer movement was 1-to-1.

With 1 threshhold accel (MouseSpeed=1), mouse-to-pointer movement was 1-to-1 below (or at) the threshhold, and doubled when the mouse moved faster than MouseThreshold1. No smoothing, just a sudden jump, doubling of pointer speed.

With 2 threshhold accel (MouseSpeed=2), mouse-to-pointer movement was 1-to-1 below (or at) the threshhold, and doubled when the mouse moved faster than MouseThreshold1 and quadrupled (×4) when faster than MouseThreshold2.

The values for the 3 settings (MouseSpeed, MouseThreshold1, MouseThreshold2) depended on which W2K pointer accel radio button was chosen (None, Low, Medium, High): http://ltxfaq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1205/~/slk-mouse-synchronization-issues#Windows2000

If you still use a mouse polling rate of 125Hz (or use the same polling rate as you had on W2K), it is possible to quite closely emulate the W2K "Low" setting using a XP/Vista/7 SmoothMouse*Curve curve.

Ditto, it is possible to somewhat approximate the W2K Medium and High settings with an XP/Vista/7 curve.

Here is some XP/Vista curves that approximate the Windows 2000 "Low" accell curve:

http://www.gamefront.com/files/20858946/XP_Vista_MouseFix__XXHz_DPI_96_Scale_1_to_1_2_to_1_9___6_of_11_zip

When I have some free time, I may build some "Windows 2000"-like curves for Windows 7 also.

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Just out of curiosity, what is it that behaves SO differently that you can't switch from 2k to XP, which is almost obsolete already? I just kind of remembered how 2k was the first real OS I saw. Man I was so happy when I got used to it and realized how solid and great it was compared to the junk from before.

Anyway, I never noticed any differences in mouse behaviour in any Windows version, so I am kinda curious here.

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Just out of curiosity, what is it that behaves SO differently that you can't switch from 2k to XP, which is almost obsolete already?

TheWalrus: To answer your question to the best of my ability... I've been gaming on Win2k OS for many years and I have a perfect twitch reflex to the way the mouse behaves. I can turn exactly 180/360/up/down with perfect aim. See something in my field of view and twitch and hit it spot on every time. I have been using it so long that I can make twitch shots without even thinking and faster than I can consciously interpret similar to how you jerk your arm away from something hot before you realize what happened. With the acceleration feature I get very little fatigue because I never have to move the mouse large distances, just speed control. Trying to relearn on another OS's revamped acceleration style is like somebody amputated my hand and gave me somebody elses. There's constant over/under shooting my aim and twitch reflexes are always hit or miss and can never introspectively figure out exactly what is different or wrong, only that it's just not right. With Win2k's scheme, I'm usually the best if not very close to it and also get accused of cheating often because fast twitches look like aimbots. I can still play very well other schemes, but it's never 100%. I never truly shine no matter how many hours, days, weeks I put into it to relearn. That original twitch reflex is always there and spot on with Win2k. I hope that answers it.

Edited by WinWin
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Do you use a USB or PS/2 mouse, and which mouse is it?

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Forgot to say how in a completely unrelated experiment:

http://reboot.pro/3717/

I actually used the mouclass.sys from Win2K on a XP build:

http://reboot.pro/3717/page__st__49

jaclaz

I just tried swapping it with the mouclass.sys from win2k and unfortunately it has no effect on the acceleration part. It was worth a shot though. (And also bypassed Windows file protection that replaces the file.)

Dencorso: I've used both USB and PS/2 without any notable difference between the two as long as I can adjust the polling rate to the max.

Edited by WinWin
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Windows 2000 mouse accel is described here:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc978664.aspx

... and here (excuse the translated Japanese and missing images):

http://translate.google.co.nz/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.archive.org%2Fweb%2F20101029202016%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Furawa.cool.ne.jp%2Ftb-works%2F37_Win_Mouse_Driv.htm

W2K (and prior) accel was a crude mechanism using 1 or two threshholds.

With no accel (MouseSpeed=0), mouse-to-pointer movement was 1-to-1.

With 1 threshhold accel (MouseSpeed=1), mouse-to-pointer movement was 1-to-1 below (or at) the threshhold, and doubled when the mouse moved faster than MouseThreshold1. No smoothing, just a sudden jump, doubling of pointer speed.

With 2 threshhold accel (MouseSpeed=2), mouse-to-pointer movement was 1-to-1 below (or at) the threshhold, and doubled when the mouse moved faster than MouseThreshold1 and quadrupled (×4) when faster than MouseThreshold2.

The values for the 3 settings (MouseSpeed, MouseThreshold1, MouseThreshold2) depended on which W2K pointer accel radio button was chosen (None, Low, Medium, High): http://ltxfaq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1205/~/slk-mouse-synchronization-issues#Windows2000

If you still use a mouse polling rate of 125Hz (or use the same polling rate as you had on W2K), it is possible to quite closely emulate the W2K "Low" setting using a XP/Vista/7 SmoothMouse*Curve curve.

Ditto, it is possible to somewhat approximate the W2K Medium and High settings with an XP/Vista/7 curve.

Here is some XP/Vista curves that approximate the Windows 2000 "Low" accell curve:

http://www.gamefront.com/files/20858946/XP_Vista_MouseFix__XXHz_DPI_96_Scale_1_to_1_2_to_1_9___6_of_11_zip

When I have some free time, I may build some "Windows 2000"-like curves for Windows 7 also.

This sudden jump and no smoothing probably explains why the later "Curves" bother me so much as I can't seem to get a reliable distance for different speeds. In games I usually do fine slow movements (Win2k) or fast twitchy ones and know exactly where it will end up and acceleration appears to be non-existant because of avoiding being close to that threshold. You get the best of both worlds there because you can do quick 180/360 without large movements/fatigue and still do small fine movements. I wonder if it's possible to recreate this curve. I'm not sure what the registry values mean exactly and I haven't seen documentation on it. There's a utility for mac that allows making your own curve, unfortunately nothing for Windows or linux (I think).

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I wonder if it's possible to recreate this curve.

Yes it is possible.

More or less exactly if you used to use Windows 2000 "Low" accel, but only somewhat approximately if you used to use Medium or High.

Do you remember what W2K setting you had?

And what settings do you have now (OS/Refresh rate/Mouse polling rate/Text Size)?

(If you run the MarkC Windows 7 + Vista + XP Mouse Acceleration Fix Builder, and accept the default values, your current setup will be in the .REG filename created, just also tell me your polling rate.)

Edited by MarktheC
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