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NATO

Drive Order

123 posts in this topic

It seems I've got things working as intended now! Both XP and Win 7 share a 3rd disk common volume, with consistent drive letters when active.

I assume I can "put" you in the happy bunnies basket! :thumbup

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=128727&st=10

I will have to take it easy for a while now to regain some strength, menial tasks on top of computer stuff has taken its toll.

Sure, you learned a whole bunch of new things, a lot like a crash-course in multi-booting, you need some time to digest the info.

So for now I'll just say thank you a lot for your patience and excellent assistance! I'd never have been able to sort it out on my own.

I suspect there are many subjects beside computer technology we might enjoy discussing. I am an autodidact so there are holes in most of my knowledge but I must have read more than a thousand books, all in English since I decided I'd have to learn that language at 16. Bradbury just one of my favourite writers, quite unique and surely one of the best!

So once again, tnx a lot jaclaz,

It has been a pleasure :) to try and assist you in your search for the solution , and is not the usual complimentary sentence, I sincerely hope that I will have in 30 or so years the same drive, curiosity and will to learn you just demonstrated.

I actually need to bow worship.gif before your UNcommon spirit of adventure.

jaclaz

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Hi jaclaz, I hope you still are around here somewhere, or I'll have to look around for you

As you know, I am crazy and always looking for things to do with my computer. The latest fad is to install a SSD drive with the hope of making some operations a little faster.

Status:

I have three drives/three systems but will go for two drives and two systems: Win XP and Win7

My current boot.ini on the first drive, XP, is:

[boot loader]

timeout=30

default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS

[operating systems]

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

C:\Windows7.bin="Windows 7 disk"

I got a 128GB SSD drive, made two equal partitions, with XP on one and Win7 on the other partition. One or two of my old drives will be assigned as D, E, … drives as required.

I did however realize that only one partition could be active on the SSD so for the time being, I will keep my existing Win7 drive as it is, with no changes.

I start with the SSD as disk(0) partition(1) XP,

Old Win7 disk as disk(1) partition(1)

(BIOS boot order also is disk 0 before disk 1)

The boot.ini is activated, selecting XP works as it should.

But when I select Win7 I get msg about missing file:

Windows root > system32\hal.dll

But hal.dll is of course resident on C:\Windows\system32\

I haven’t tried putting a copy on the root, don’t know if that would be a good idea.

Don’t want to experiment too much in fear of creating further problems and disrupt system, I want to have 100% uptime available on email and google access.

Can you solve the problem for me?

(I have the BOOTMGR file and the boot directory and files in the XP root.) But don’t know If they are needed.

What I suspect is I may need to run bootpart. But I would prefer some input on how to do it.

I have saved all or most of oour earlier exchanges and have studied them but I have to admit, I feel like I am in deep water. Is there a limit to how far my brain is willing to go? I honeslty don't know, will be 83 on thursday so some deterioration is possible.

I have taken a look at http://thestarman.narod.ru/asm/mbr/ but I don’t find anything of use there.

BTW, The Starman wrote in a old document: Iv'e saved "After initially using "Startup and Recovery to" view a certain BOOT.INI file under Win2k, I changed the "Active" partition with a disk editor and the nexxt time i used this feature (without rebooting!) it opened a completely different BOOT.INI from the root directory af the other partition."

Could that be used to allow me to actually have boh t XP C. and WIn7 C: volumes on the SSD, and make one or the other active from a startup script or something?

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If you have your new SSD with a new install of XP booting fine, your next step should (could) be that of installing the 7 to the second partition.

The 7 install will:

  1. set BOOTMGR as primary bootmanager
  2. add an entry in it's \boot\BCD for the XP install that already exists on the SSD (besides the "normal" one for 7)

We can of course put together *something* that will allow you to "temporarily" (i.e. until you do not install the new 7 to the SSD) access the old install of 7 on another disk, but whatever this setup will be it will be nonetheless overwritten when you will install the 7 to your SSD.

If you can list the BIOS disk order, I can easily make a new grub4dos menu.lst allowing you to use whatever:

First disk, first partition (hd0,0) -> SSD, New XP install, active partition in the MBR

First disk, second partition (hd0,1) IF primary, (hd0,4) IF logical volume inside extended partition ->SSD, partition on which you plan to install windows 7

Second disk? .....

Third disk? ......

(fill the dots)

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz
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What I've done so far is to install XP on the 1st partition active, and Win7 on the 2nd partition primary.

They both look al right and will boot when the partition is set to active.

It suppose what remains is to provide a mechanism to permit selection of partition to boot at startup time, the active or the primary one.

XP will be the active one, but Win7 willl be the default in boot.ini. Unless there are reasons why Win7 ought to be the active? It doesn't matter to me.

For all further storage devices I don't think I should have any problem incorporating them properly with their respective systems.

As a safety measure until I am satsfied that the new setup runs smooth, I will keep both of the current drives for XP and Win7 intact so I may be able to return to the present setup.

Then I will partition my third disk for additional storage for each of the two systems.

(I haven't checked and the SSD is not connected now, but whe you say

"The 7 install will:

set BOOTMGR as primary bootmanager

add an entry in it's \boot\BCD for the XP install that already exists on the SSD (besides the "normal" one for 7)"

does that really mean the 7 install did that? I'll check it out later today.)

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"The 7 install will:

set BOOTMGR as primary bootmanager

add an entry in it's \boot\BCD for the XP install that already exists on the SSD (besides the "normal" one for 7)"

does that really mean the 7 install did that? I'll check it out later today.)

That is the "normal" behaviour when you install a Windows 7 on a PC that already has Windows XP installed, unless you hide (or change the active status) of the partition on which XP is installed before installing the XP.

If you do the above the XP partition would normally get the drive letter "C:" and Windows 7 will have (say) the "D:" one, the BOOTMGR and the \boot\BCD will be written to the C: (i.e. on the same partition on which NTLDR and BOOT.INI are).

If you installed the two systems "independently" you are having instead on first partition NTLDR+BOOT.INI and on second partition BOOTMGR+\boot\BCD, and the C: drive letter is given to the partition that you set as active and boot from, to the first one when you boot XP or to the second one when you boot windows 7.

Do this test:

  1. add grldr to first partition
  2. add to the BOOT.INI in first partition a line: C:\grldr="grub4dos"
  3. when booting, select "grub4dos" and you will get to the grub> prompt
  4. at it type (without double quotes): "find --set-root /bootmgr" and press [ENTER]
  5. then: "root" [ENTER] <- you should have here (hd0,1) as feedback
  6. then: "chainloader /bootmgr" [ENTER]
  7. then "boot" [ENTER]
  8. and the windows 7 on second partition should boot normally

jaclaz

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Will check it out now, but I believe the partitions were set active before installation, so either partition would have been C: during installation.

I did that to make sure the 7 installation would not mess with the already intstalled xp partition.

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Here's what I will do to make, i hope, a proper installation:

1. Leave the XP partition active, boot from cd, fire up install, delete and recreate a blank primary partition and install Win7 there. Right?

2. Download and run install grub4dosxxxx.exe on the XP partition.

3. Follow your instructions and I'll be done.

OK?

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Here's what I will do to make, i hope, a proper installation:

1. Leave the XP partition active, boot from cd, fire up install, delete and recreate a blank primary partition and install Win7 there. Right?

2. Download and run install grub4dosxxxx.exe on the XP partition.

3. Follow your instructions and I'll be done.

OK?

NO, actually the idea was to see what happens with those few grub4dos commands BEFORE touching your current install on the SSD.

I mean, if you like to have C: as the "OS partition" when either XP or 7 is booted, you have already the working configuration that you desire and it'0s just a matter to set a provision for it in the BOOT.INI.

You DO NOT WANT to "install" grub4dos! :w00t:

You want to ONLY extract form the .zip and copy the file grldr to the root of the active XP partition (along with the already existiong NTLDR, NTDETECT.COM and BOOT.INI) and NOTHING ELSE.

jaclaz

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The specs in the lower half of the disk management screeen shows the XP partition as the first (active) and the 7 partition as the second.

executing find --set-root... returns (hd0,0) * should have been (hd0,1)

I entered

1. root

2. chainloder/bootmgr. * got an error msg.

The list at the upper half of the screen have 7 in the first line and XP in the second line but I presume the lower half is what counts.

But as you noted, I actually did install the two systems indepedently, and to me that seems to mean the boot setup somehow must be reversed. But I'd prefer to hsve XP as the deafult.

Or I may start all over from scratch like I suggested before.

Edited by Roffen
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The specs in the lower half of the disk management screeen shows the XP partition as the first (active) and the 7 partition as the second.

executing find --set-root... returns (hd0,0) * should have been (hd0,1)

I entered

1. root

2. chainloder/bootmgr. * got an error msg.

WHICH "error msg"? (they have numbers and a brief explicative text)

Please note that it is:

chainloader[sPACE]/bootmgr

jaclaz

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This time selecting gru4dos the system went straight to greeen sceen and said

Booting Windows 7 from disk0 partition0

Then my wife called for help setting dinner table for our guests tonight and when I returned the system had gone further all by itself to say

chainloader /bootmgr

and that created

Error 15 file not found.

and listed options that I don't think would be relevant wrt the problem.

I don't find the \boot\BCD folder in any of the partitions but I distincty remember putting it there.

Guess I'll have to fix that.

Will be back.

Rolf

Edited by Roffen
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This time selecting gru4dos the system went straight to greeen sceen and said

Booting Windows 7 from disk0 partition0

Then my wife called for help setting dinner table for our guests tonight and when I returned the system had gone further all by itself to say

chainloader /bootmgr

and that created

Error 15 file not found.

and listed options that I don't think would be relevant wrt the problem.

I don't find the \boot\BCD folder in any of the partitions but I distincty remember putting it there.

Guess I'll have to fix that.

Will be back.

Rolf

Green screen? :w00t:

Rolfen, you are somehoiw doing "other" things from what you were asked. :unsure:

"Green Screen" maybe due to the presence of a menu.lst.

If you have (as you should) ONLY the SSD connected AND you ONLY copied grldr to the active partiton, you won' t have any menu.lst, nor any "green screen". :blink:

If you get a "green screen", press "c" (commandline) and get to the grub> prompt.

You don' t "put" \boot\BCD folder anywhere, it is created by the Windows 7 install procedure, you simply CANNOT (ever) boot a Windows 7 if it doesn't exists. (and it should exist on the active, primary partition of the SSD at the time of Windows 7 install).

if at the grub> prompt you type:

find --set-root /bootmgr

IF you have as output (hd0,0) or (hd0,1) it means that the file IS actually found on either (hd0,0) or (hd0,1) and "root" IS actually set to te volume containing the BOOTMGR.

The immediately following:

chainloader /bootmgr

CANNOT output:

Error 15 file not found.

(since it just found it ;) ).

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz
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Seems miracles do happen, after all!

The green screeen and events described are to the best of my knowledge just what I said,

Fact:

running the attrib boot*.* command,

XP part has boot.ini.

7 part has bootmgr.

No folder named boot that I can see.

i can't even find a boot folder on the old xp drive, but I believe I saw both the folder and the BCD in it, somewhere a few days ago.

But i think I installed XP first on active part, then made the other part active and installed 7.

But I am getiing somewhat confused and cant say anything for sure. Is there any file or folder date stamp I can trust?

Or maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to start all over from scratch after all?

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The green screeen and events described are to the best of my knowledge just what I said,

I do not doubt your report, I am only stating how evidently you did (and are still doing) something different from what I have asked you to do.

IF:

  • you have ONLY the SSD connected
  • you NEVER "installed" grub4dos to the SSD or ANY of the two partitions in it
  • you ONLY added the line c:\grldr="grub4dos" to the BOOT.INI on first (active) partition of the SSD
  • you ONLY added to the ROOT of first (active) partition of the SSD the file grldr

When you boot you should see (white text on black background) a choice among which a line "grub4dos" (without double quotes) and if you choose this line you will land to (still white text on black background) *something saying "grub>" (again without quotes).

That is unless little green men did plant on your PC a green screen overnight.

Unless you manage to do EXACTLY what I suggest (and NOTHING else) and thus "land" on some white text on black background "grub>" we won't get very far.

jaclaz

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Unless you manage to do EXACTLY what I suggest (and NOTHING else) and thus "land" on some white text on black background "grub>" we won't get very far.

Funny that I got white text 1st time but green 2nd time - I was surprised!

But here are the directory listings and the boot.ini file:

Volumet i stasjon I er XP SSD

Volumserienummeret er FCCE-3AAA

Innhold i I:\

30.05.2013 07:44 65ÿ536 asusdisp.log

18.05.2013 14:13 0 AUTOEXEC.BAT

26.05.2013 17:15 <DIR> bootpart

18.05.2013 14:13 0 CONFIG.SYS

30.05.2013 23:03 0 dirfile.txt

18.05.2013 14:56 <DIR> Documents and Settings

21.05.2013 05:28 272ÿ715 grldr

30.05.2013 22:51 969 I do not doubt your report.txt

26.05.2013 18:16 <DIR> Programfiler

28.05.2013 16:16 <DIR> WINDOWS

6 fil(er) 339ÿ220 byte

4 mappe® 56ÿ637ÿ411ÿ328 byte ledig

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Volumet i stasjon N er WIN7 SSD

Volumserienummeret er C8EA-7287

Innhold i N:\

10.06.2009 23:42 24 autoexec.bat

10.06.2009 23:42 10 config.sys

30.05.2013 23:04 0 dirfile7.txt

10.06.2009 23:42 24 Kopi av autoexec.txt

10.06.2009 23:42 10 Kopi av config.txt

14.07.2009 04:37 <DIR> PerfLogs

21.05.2013 16:09 <DIR> Program Files

21.05.2013 16:10 <DIR> Users

23.05.2013 19:45 <DIR> Windows

5 fil(er) 68 byte

4 mappe® 52ÿ376ÿ723ÿ456 byte ledig

The two ”dirfiles” are dir>dirfile.txt from dos prompt, the contents of displayed above.

C:\boot.ini (attrib sh) contains

[boot loader]

timeout=30

default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS

[operating systems]

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

C:\Windows7.bin="Windows 7 disk"

C:\grldr="grub4dos"

The above info gained while running Win2k, XP part is mapped I: and 7 part mapped N:

Need Win2k to permit r/w access to SSD parts.

Will now remove all drives except SSD and make a last test befpre going to bed.

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Himmler would have envied me; he never found the Holy Grail.

I found the Holy Grub, thanks to grub theologian jaclaz.

That's all I can say. I did a little cleanup up on the drive, followed his last instructions slavishly and lo and behold, there it was!

With Win7 running, the other volume is not visible.

In XP both volumes are visible.

But I really hope the boot procedure may be made somewhat more user friendly.

Using grldr the keyboard also is a problem. I type alt-45 to get '-', and - to get '/'

'-' may be there somewhere, I haven't checked yet.

Edited by Roffen
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But I really hope the boot procedure may be made somewhat more user friendly.

Sure, the idea is to first see if the approach works, and later refine it ;).

Using grldr the keyboard also is a problem. I type alt-45 to get '-', and - to get '/'

'-' may be there somewhere, I haven't checked yet.

You can use the numeric keypad to have the dash "-" and the slash "/" normally.

Now that you can boot "manually" you can add (as first step towards the "more user friendly" approach) in the same volume where NTLDR, NTDETECT.COM, BOOT:INI and grldr are a "plain" text file, name it menu.lst.

In it put this contents (you can copy and paste allright):

color white/black black/white

timeout 30

title Windows 7 BOOTMGR\n find and load BOOTMGR of Windows 7

find --set-root /bootmgr

chainloader /bootmgr

title Windows 7 Bootsector\n find and load volume bootsector of Windows 7

find --set-root /bootmgr

chainloader +1

title Windows 7 BOOTMGR (hd0,1)\n load BOOTMGR of Windows 7 on second partition

root (hd0,1)

chainloader /bootmgr

title Windows 7 bootsector (hd0,1)\n load bootsector of Windows 7 on second partition

root (hd0,1)

chainloader +1

title commandline

commandline

title reboot

reboot

title halt

halt

All the 4 (four) entries for Windows 7 should work to boot it, please try all of them and report if any of them does not work.

jaclaz

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First of all, I am sorry to have caused so much extra work for you! I don't know if I could have shown the same patience and overbearance with me as you have!

Business:

I made the acid test by keeping my three present drive setup intact, just adding the SSD to the top of the BIOS boot order.

And it was all smooth sailing, all four menu entries worked without a hitch.

So it seems I (and you;) have reached our goal, while I am left to find out if I have achieved anything useful by using an SSD drive.

I will disconnect the old XP and 7 drives, and reasssign the 2k drive to extra storage and backup purposes.

The XP partition is hidden whn 7 is active but I presume that's a price we have to pay when booting a non-active partition? But it doesn't really matter.

I have nothing more to say, just thanks a lot for the best help anyone could ask for on the internet. Don't know how I'd have handled a 'customer' like me.

All my life farewell's have been a problem but I'll have to let you off the hook now - we may never meet again.

Cheerio!

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The XP partition is hidden whn 7 is active but I presume that's a price we have to pay when booting a non-active partition? But it doesn't really matter.

That can be also "fixed".

If you open (when booted in the 7) the Disk Management you will likely see that the partition where XP is (first partition) has not a drive letter assigned.

Simply right click on that partition and choose to assign a drive letter (you won't be able to assign the "C:" one, as it will likely be already "taken" by the second partition).

First of all, I am sorry to have caused so much extra work for you! I don't know if I could have shown the same patience and overbearance with me as you have!

Naaah, it's more than OK :), I would like to have more "customers" like you ;), as said:

it is really UNcommon to find people with the right attitude :thumbup (willing to change, experiment, play with things) in your age range.

jaclaz

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Of ocurse, when you mention it - I know I removed the drive letter on purpose. Will be nice to get it back. All my other volumes aer configured the same way.

Thanks for nice words; the reason may be I was more or less left to myself to find my way with very little in terms of disciplining or indoctrination. But i won't recommend parents test that alternative, it probably takes a particular (peculiar) soil to grow the 'right' way. Especially in our mad 21st century! The 1930's were magic times...

Rolf

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I don't have any problems, the dual XP/Win7 setup on a SSD disk is ok.

Before I feel I can let go and remove the old Win7 disk, I use the BIOS drive order method to access it.

I am reading a grub bootloader tutorial with the intention of adding an entry to the menu.lst to achieve the same thing.

My current menu:

color white/black black/white

timeout 30

title Windows 7 bootsector (hd0,1)\n load bootsector of Windows 7 on second partition

root (hd0,1)

chainloader +1

title commandline

commandline

title reboot

reboot

title halt

halt

My suggested alternatives for an additional entry::

title Windows 7 Bootsector\n find and load volume bootsector of old Win 7 * my #1 idea

find --set-root /bootmgr

chainloader +1

title Windows 7 Bootsector\n load volume bootsector of old win 7 * my #2 idea

rootnoverify (hd2,0)

chainloader (hd2,0)+1

( Ihave XP and Win7 on disk 0,

backup / storage on disk 1

Old Win7 on disk 2)

I may be too cautious but I want to make sure I don't mess up what I have now.

Edited by Roffen
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title Windows 7 Bootsector\n load volume bootsector of old win 7 * my #2 idea

rootnoverify (hd2,0)

chainloader (hd2,0)+1

This is "almost" good, but unless and until you don' t actually use "write" or "destructive" commands, you can experiment on command line, which is one of the reasons why grub4dos is so convenient, it is a sort of mini-command line OS, similar to good ol' DOS:

http://diddy.boot-land.net/grub4dos/files/basics.htm

http://diddy.boot-land.net/grub4dos/files/cli.htm

Once you have established root (plainly with root or with rootnoverify) you can use "relative paths".

In your example you use "absolute paths":

rootnoverify (hd2,0) <- here you set root to (hd2,0)

BOTH:

chainloader (hd2,0)+1 <- this is an "absolute path"

and

chainloader +1 <- this is a "relative path" with implied root

and:

chainloader ()+1 <- this is a "relative path" with explicit root

will have the same result.

As a matter of fact when you write chainloader +1 grub4dos "reads" it as chainloader ()+1, where () is "current root".

The "find --set-root /bootmgr" is not suitable in your case because the disks and volumes are scanned in order, like:

(hd0,0)

...

(hd0,n)

(hd1,0)

....

(hd1,n)

(hd2,0)

etc.

so, as soon as the /bootmgr on (hd0,1) is found, that one becomes root and it's bootsector is then chainloaded.

Generally speaking choosing to root is (IMHO) better than rootnoverify which is (or should be) reserved to "particular" settings.

To use find --set-root, normally a "tag file" is used, i.e. you create a "uniquely named" file (it can be a 0 byte file created with - say - Notepad) like "myniceoldwin7.tag" on your third disk, then you can have:

find --set-root /myniceoldwin7.tag

chainloader +1

or

find --set-root /myniceoldwin7.tag

chainloader /bootmgr

jaclaz

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Cool, I was a DOS-fan for a long time until Windows finally took off...

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I am sorry but I am lost.

Had to reinstall Win7, but now booting partition 1 with boot.ini

[boot loader]

timeout=30

default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS

[operating systems]

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP music disk Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

C:\grldr="grub4dos"

i only get a black and white menu with option of loading Win7 or grub4dos.

I copied bootmgr and boot folder from 7 to xp again, disapperad when installing 7.

2nd part active when installing 7, 1st part (XP) active now.

I am completely lost, and would prefer not to reinstall XP - have much installed and working fine there.

Rolf

ETA I feel like I have a problem, I do not know what I am doing, I only do what I am being told but don't know what's going on behind the scenes

Edited by Roffen
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