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Drive Order

123 posts in this topic

I shudder at the thought of what it would cost to have this kind of expert advice ready at your fingertips.

I really appreciate it!

With what I've got so far I think I am ready to get cracking. You deserve a breather. :thumbup

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I am ready for the next step, creating the boot.ini file. All I am in doubt about before I begin is just where do I put it?

With

drive 0 = XP

drive 1 = Win7

drive 2 some other stuff,

Drive 1 seems the logical choice to me, but I could be wrong.

In the meantime, I'll go outside to continue painting the parapet. A tough job for me, until 2100 yesterday for the primer.

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There is still one litlle point that needs to be decided upon, whether to use the XP partitioning offsets/boundaries or the Windows 7 ones. :unsure:

This is normally very "transparent" to the end user but since it carries with it some possible DANGER :ph34r: and since we are still on the drawing table, it may be relevant.

All Operating systems up to XP/2003 used a "convention" stating that any partition should begin and end on a cylinder boundary.

Vista :ph34r: and later changed this "basic" and started using a scheme that aligned partition to cluster multiple.

The potential issue is that any third party tool made before the Vista :ph34r: advent may threat this "abby" values ;):

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072431/quotes?qt=qt0504329

as an error and/or attempt to modify them.

Much worse than that :w00t: , the built-in XP Disk Management will (if certain operations are performed) make some partitions disappear (and though perfectly doable recovering them won't be a "piece of cake").

You can read about the gory details here:

http://reboot.pro/9897/

and here:

http://www.dcr.net/~w-clayton/Vista/DisappearingPartitions/DisappearingPartitions.htm

The advantage of using the new "alignment" is to have (theoretically and much to be actually proved in everyday usage on hard disks) faster access times.

But if you use it, you must be sure to NOT EVER use the XP Disk Management tool to perform some operations AND know that when using *any* third-party tool made before (say) 2007 or 2008 these may produce errors and/or create issues.

Personally, I find that the good ol' method is anyway "good enough" and "safer" (and does not provide on hard disks any really noticeable lag or delay when compared to the new one) but obviously the "new" paradigm is good in itself, once you know the issues with older software.

Are you going to start from "wiped" disks? (not really any need to actually wipe them, in this case "wiped" means "unpartitioned" or with just the MBR wiped).

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz
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I have installed both XP and 7 on separate drives according to plan. I used an old partitioning tool before installing the systems but have done no changes after installing the systems. So my two systems ought to be quite clean so far.

As soon as I have got my setup configured the way I want it - and that boils down to the ability to choose XP or 7 at startup, with XP as the default. With both systems seeing a couple of default folders common to both systems: music, and documents, I don't expect to do anything with the disk drives, but I won't have any problem restricting any access to disk management to WIn7 only.

I find the subject we are into a veritable can of worms and I'll be glad if and when I can lean back and forget all about it.

I find reading a thread like

http://windows7forums.com/windows-7-support/2940-windows-7-xp-dual-boot-invalid-boot-ini-3.html

quite "intimidating"

As long as I restrict my experiments to just editing the boot.ini on the Win7 drive, can anything go wrong?

No, I have not wiped the drives.

Edited by Roffen
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I have installed both XP and 7 on separate drives according to plan. I used an old partitioning tool before installing the systems but have done no changes after installing the systems. So my two systems ought to be quite clean so far.

And most probably you have the "old", "safe" boundaries partitioning. :)

As soon as I have got my setup configured the way I want it - and that boils down to the ability to choose XP or 7 at startup, with XP as the default. With both systems seeing a couple of default folders common to both systems: music, and documents, I don't expect to do anything with the disk drives, but I won't have any problem restricting any access to disk management to WIn7 only.

Good, though if you are using the "Old" standard there won't be *any* problem with *any* tool.

I find the subject we are into a veritable can of worms and I'll be glad if and when I can lean back and forget all about it.

I find reading a thread like

http://windows7forums.com/windows-7-support/2940-windows-7-xp-dual-boot-invalid-boot-ini-3.html

quite "intimidating"

Well, in this you are perfectly right, not only it is a can of worms, it is an open one! :ph34r:

As long as I restrict my experiments to just editing the boot.ini on the Win7 drive, can anything go wrong?

Sure :) at the most you won't be able to boot an XP.

No, I have not wiped the drives.

Good, but how exactly did you install/re-install the XP and the 7?

If you left both (please read as "all three of them") drives connected and first drive in boot sequence (BIOS) is the "XP one", and you installed first XP and then Windows 7, what should have happened is the following:

The XP installs make the first disk have the active, primary partition (which is both "system" and "boot" partition when you boot the XP) with a bootsector invoking NTLDR and copy to the root of the drive NTDETECT.COM and BOOT.INI, writing to it some valid values, such as:

[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect

Then the install of Windows 7 should have created on the same first disk a file BOOTMGR and a \boot\BCD, and it will have modified the bootsector of the partition to invoke BOOTMGR instead, and an entry to boot XP from the BOOTMGR will have been created, BUT the Windows 7 won't get C:\ when booted.

On the other hand if you installed by disabling disks as you were used to, the BOOTMGR and \boot\BCD will be on the first partition of second disk, or if you prefer you have two completely independent installs.

Is this what you have now? :unsure:

jaclaz

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I installed each of the systems with all other drives disconnected.

I find a boot.ini on XP, but not on the Win7.

Searching Microsoft, I didn't find anything about boot.ini for Win7.

This is the XP file:

[boot loader]

timeout=30

default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS

[operating systems]

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

The way I read what your wrote, I might add this line to the XP file

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(1)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows 7 Ultimate" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

and either of the systems would start with the system partition as C: which is what I want. Right?

Edited by Roffen
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and either of the systems would start with the system partition as C: which is what I want. Right?

NO. :no:

Please re-read my previous posts.

The Windows 7 uses the BOOTMGR/\boot\BCD (that you have now only on the WIndows 7 disk)

The XP uses the NTLDR/BOOT.INI that you have now only on the Windows XP disk.

Your next step should be to have both disks visible, with the XP boot disk first in boot sequence, boot the XP and from it copy from "drive 1" to "drive 0" (the XP drive is now "C:\" and the Windows 7 will get another drive letter):

  1. BOOTMGR <- this is a file
  2. \boot\ <-this is a directory containing several files, including one named simply "BCD"

Now we need to make an "intermediate" step (to make sure we have a way out if needed :ph34r: )..

Get bootpart from here:

http://www.winimage.com/bootpart.htm

unzip in a directory like "C:\bootpart", open a command prompt, navigate to it and run just "bootpart" with no arguments.

You will get an output similar to this:

C:\BOOTPART>BOOTPART
Boot Partition 2.60 for WinNT/2K/XP (c)1995-2002 G. Vollant (info@winimage.com)
WEB : http://www.winimage.com and http://www.winimage.com/bootpart.htm
Add partition in the Windows NT/2000/XP Multi-boot loader
Run "bootpart /?" for more information

0 : C:* type=6 (BIGDOS Fat16), size = 1044193 KB
1 : C: type=a (OS/2 Boot Manag.), size = 8032 KB
2 : C: type=5 (Extended), size = 8032 KB
3 : C: type=7 (HPFS/NTFS), size = 8001 KB
4 : D: type=6 (BIGDOS Fat16), size = 261104 KB
5 : D: type=5 (Extended), size = 769024 KB
6 : D: type=7 (HPFS/NTFS), size = 102384 KB
7 : D: type=5 (Extended), size = 369664 KB
8 : D: type=7 (HPFS/NTFS), size = 369648 KB
9 : D: type=83 (Linux native), size = 296944 KB

The XP disk will be the one with the asterisk, and the Windows 7 disk will probably be "D: " and the partition something like "D: type=7 (HPFS/NTFS), size = <the size you made it> KB"

Jolt down the number on first column correspondent to the volume on which 7 is installed, let's say that this number is 5.

Now run bootpart as follows:

bootpart 5 C:\Windows7.bin "Windows 7 disk"

It should do two things:

  1. create a 512 byte file C:\Windows7.bin
  2. add in BOOT.INI an entry like "C:\Windows7.bin="Windows 7 disk"

Now, if you reboot, you should be able to choose the Windows 7 entry and boot the Windows 7.

Please try and report.

jaclaz

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This is what it looks like on the Win7 disk:

C:\Windows\Boot\

___ PCAT\BOOTMGR

___ DVD\PCAT\

______ en-US\bootfix.bin

______ BCD

______ BOOT.sdi

______ etfsboot

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

(I use __ since indenting doesn't work)

I presume I may just copy the entire Win7 Windows\Boot folder to the XP Windows folder since as far as I can tell, there is no folder of that name present so there shouldn't be any conflict. Right?

I am tempted to put the entire project far back on the burner and see if XP perhaps may be all that I need. My brain is begging for peace - it has been running at full throttle for more than 80 years an deserves a break. We'll see.

Edited by Roffen
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This is what it looks like on the Win7 disk:

C:\Windows\Boot\

___ PCAT\BOOTMGR

___ DVD\PCAT\

______ en-US\bootfix.bin

______ BCD

______ BOOT.sdi

______ etfsboot

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

(I use __ since indenting doesn't work)

I presume I may just copy the entire Win7 Windows\Boot folder to the XP Windows folder since as far as I can tell, there is no folder of that name present so there shouldn't be any conflict. Right?

I am tempted to put the entire project far back on the burner and see if XP perhaps may be all that I need. My brain is begging for peace - it has been running at full throttle for more than 80 years an deserves a break. We'll see.

Well :), it is entirely up to you, but I would guess that your brain has got to 80 + years in perfect working order EXACTLY BECAUSE you have used it intensively before :thumbup .

Come on, giving up is NEVER an option! :w00t:

You can do it! Go, Roffen, Go!


*\O/*
|
/ \

cheerleader.gif

But there is something that does not sound "right".

You should have in ROOT (i.e. C:\) :

C:\BOOTMGR <- this is a file, possibly around 380 Kb in size

C:\boot\ <- this is a folder, containing a file called BCD and other directories/files (local languages)

Compare with this:

14133d1247237888-can-i-delete-c-drive-dual-boot-system-bootmgr2009-05-11_182540.jpg

They might be "hidden" files, and you have to set explorer to show them.

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz
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Takes some time to learn screen hunter, but maybe the attached file is ok. Folder option set to show hidden files, but they are not there. The disk seems to have had an OS before installation, maybe I should try again, full formatting the partition first?

post-358790-0-81236600-1343576688_thumb.

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Takes some time to learn screen hunter, but maybe the attached file is ok. Folder option set to show hidden files, but they are not there. The disk seems to have had an OS before installation, maybe I should try again, full formatting the partition first?

NO.

You must set settings so that you see both hidden and system files.

424080-396-481.png

You want to have "Hide protected operating system files (Recommended)" UNchecked.

You should also have normally in root (additionally):

  • pagefile.sys (the page file)
  • $Recycle.bin (the Recycling Bin)
  • System Volume Information (another system/hidden folder)

and probably quite a few other files that do not show in your screenshot.

OR try doing another thing.

Open a command prompt and in it issue:

CD /D C:\

[ENTER]

DIR /AS

[ENTER]

and

DIR /AH

[ENTER]

(the above list System files and Hidden ones, respectively)

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz
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You want to have "Hide protected operating system files (Recommended)" UNchecked.

Oops, I wasn't aware of that one. Will check it out.

ETA: All right, they were there! Will proceed according to schedule. :whistle:

Edited by Roffen
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It looks like this:

[boot loader]

timeout=30

default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS

[operating systems]

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

C:\Windows7.bin="Windows 7 disk"

XP: OK

Win7: Loops back to the menu instead of booting Win7

Am tempted to change 2nd rdisk to (1).

Didn't work.

Got a 3rd line, default entry in the menu but still no Win 7. Messages flashing during the loop seems to be info only, not error msgs.

Edited by Roffen
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It looks like this:

[boot loader]

timeout=30

default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS

[operating systems]

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

C:\Windows7.bin="Windows 7 disk"

XP: OK

Win7: Loops back to the menu instead of booting Win7

Are you positive that you used bootpart correctly?

Can you post the output of the boopart command (run without parameters)?

It's strange, it should have worked :unsure:

Am tempted to change 2nd rdisk to (1).

Didn't work.

Sure it did not, NTLDR cannot boot a Windows Vista :ph34r: or 7.

Got a 3rd line, default entry in the menu but still no Win 7. Messages flashing during the loop seems to be info only, not error msgs.

Well, this of course makes no difference.

Another way :).

Download the attachment.

decompress the files grldr and menu.lst in root of first disk.first partition (the XP volume)

add to the BOOT.INI the line:

C:\grldr="grub4dos"

reboot and choose that entry.

At the grub4dos menu try all the entries.

Whilst first one may fail, the other two should both work :unsure:

jaclaz

g4d_for_Roffen.zip

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Will try grub4dos tomorrow, but here is the bootpart:

post-358790-0-73510900-1343596436_thumb.

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