[JorgeA]

CharlotteTheHarlot, on 03 July 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

This is how most of my systems end up looking like after a few days of screwing around. Lots of drop icons on an always visible taskbar (I just wish I could figure out a way to use that dead space below the Start Button).

Whoa -- that multitude of wordless, tiny icons going almost all the way across the taskbar would drive me BONKERS!

But seriously, this is the beauty of the Windows environment that the Microsoft Steves are trying to tarnish -- we have all these different ways to launch programs, and can choose the method(s) that works best for us.

--JorgeA

[CharlotteTheHarlot]

JorgeA, on 03 July 2012 - 10:39 PM, said:

But seriously, this is the beauty of the Windows environment that the Microsoft Steves are trying to tarnish -- we have all these different ways to launch programs, and can choose the method(s) that works best for us.

Exactly!

EDIT: RE: "wordless, tiny icons" ... I forgot to mention that there is balloon popup when you hold the pointer over the icons. This is a very good use of the 'COMMENT' field found in a shortcut's LNK properties (it looks much like the popup cell comments in Excel).

This post has been edited by CharlotteTheHarlot: 04 July 2012 - 09:00 AM

[tomasz86]

Actually apart from instant access the thing I like the most concerning Quick Launch is that you can launch multiple programs at once by clicking on the shortcuts while Start Menu closes after you launch something so you need to reopen in in order to run another application.

[Fredledingue]

Also don't underestimate the power of the "Show Desktop" icon on the Quick Launch.
It shows the desktop instantly with all the icons on it (in case you still use desktop icons or your Quick Launch bar is full)
And it minimizes all windows which is also useful to clear up your workspace.

This post has been edited by Fredledingue: 04 July 2012 - 03:31 PM

[CharlotteTheHarlot]

Fredledingue, on 04 July 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

Also don't underestimate the poser of the "Show Desktop" icon on the Quick Launch.
It shows the desktop instantly with all the icons on it (in case you still use desktop icons or your Quick Launch bar is full)
And it minimizes all windows which is also useful to clear up your workspace.

'Show Desktop' is easily the most clicked icon in my own experience. No doubt about it at all.

For me, the absolute arrogance of the Windows GUI team became cemented for all time when Windows 6.1 was designed and they pulled that stunt with the shift to the bottom right. Don't get me wrong, I like Aero Glass and Peek, but that was exactly the kind of insanity they are famous for.

Microsoft has often spoke of 'Muscle Memory' and other concepts of GUI design, but they never fail at doing something that contradicts their supposed adherence to standards. People had been clicking on the icon near the Start Menu for at least 11 years by the time 'Windows 7' was released in 2009 and still that did not make a difference.

I've come to terms with the fact that with every release of Windows, a non-trivial amount of time must be devoted to hammering the thing back into shape to make it functional again. Windows releases are no longer a matter of excitement but instead it is a matter of preparing for the worst, hoping for the best, (unfortunately with emphasis on worst).

[JorgeA]

CharlotteTheHarlot, on 04 July 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

I've come to terms with the fact that with every release of Windows, a non-trivial amount of time must be devoted to hammering the thing back into shape to make it functional again. Windows releases are no longer a matter of excitement but instead it is a matter of preparing for the worst, hoping for the best, (unfortunately with emphasis on worst).

I was a happy Windows 98 user till my PC developed a life-threatening condition where it had trouble starting up (turned out to be dust inside the case, duh) and I went out and bought a Vista machine. That was 2008. Never had anything to do with ME, 2000, or XP. Imagine my shock when I turned on the new computer for the first time and was confronted with all the UI changes. Took me a couple of years to figure everything out. (I wasn't nearly as computer-literate as I am today. Not that I'm a professional IT guy or anything, but you know what I mean.)

Oh yeah, and the EasyTech kids at Staples had a heck of a time figuring out how to transfer my files from the PATA drive to the new machine. It was like they were looking at some mysterious Etruscan artifact. It took the old guy on their team to know what it was and how to move the information over.

--JorgeA

[tomasz86]

CharlotteTheHarlot, on 04 July 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

'Show Desktop' is easily the most clicked icon in my own experience. No doubt about it at all.

I think you may find Affiche bureau useful. This tiny utility has a very interesting desktop preview function:



Source: http://www.le-monde-...che-bureau.html

This post has been edited by tomasz86: 05 July 2012 - 02:03 AM

[MagicAndre1981]

Fredledingue, on 03 July 2012 - 03:52 PM, said:

Interresting how everyone is different (please somebody send it to MS telemetry -LOL-)

JorgeA, on 03 July 2012 - 10:39 PM, said:

But seriously, this is the beauty of the Windows environment ... we have all these different ways to launch programs, and can choose the method(s) that works best for us.

correct and THIS IS GREAT. Everyone can use what he links and not what MSFT thinks it is the best

[Fredledingue]

Tomash said:

I think you may find Affiche bureau useful.

Thanks a lot for this link, I just tried it a minute ago and it's great!

[JorgeA]

Good news: Stardock is coming out with a new version of Start8 that will enable users to boot straight to the Desktop.

Stardock's CEO also addresses the issue of the Start Menu's removal in Windows 8:

Quote

The interest in the betas of Start8 has been phenomenal. I think it demonstrates that a lot of people -- and I'd argue most people -- expect their Windows desktop to have a concise and effective way to get to their stuff. The Start button and its corresponding menu is the result of decades of refinement in usability. The removal of it in Windows 8 is baffling to me. Normally, user experience shifts occur to due underlying technological changes. DOS to Windows, for example, occurred because the underlying technology allowed us to transition to an environment that was both easier to use and more productive. By contrast, the Windows 8 desktop is clearly a step back -- they removed functionality in an effort to appeal to a different demographic -- content consumers.

Apropos of some of the discussion in this thread about Microsoft trying to kill the Start Menu:

Quote

We've been holding back on new features because we didn't want to deal with the case where a feature gets broken by a beta update to Windows 8. It would just cause us unnecessary support issues. We are also not certain how Microsoft will, from a political point of view, feel about some of the things we're doing and would not want them to make changes that would make it harder to do some of the things we're doing.

So Microsoft's intention is clear and Stardock seems to be playing a bit of a cagey game, hoping not to provoke the MS lion into cutting off the Start Menu's head completely.

--JorgeA

This post has been edited by JorgeA: 10 July 2012 - 10:37 PM

[tsampikos]

I don't think that there is such thing as "provoke" Microsoft. Windows 8 comes with no Optical media playback support. 3rd Party apps resolve this issue. Windows 8 comes with no Start button? Again 3rd party apps resolve this matter. That's the way it is and that's the way it always was. There are no bones to cut, just removed a feature which can be restored back. If Microsoft Publisches Beta Win8 versions, which is accessible to developers, it is also sure that they know the possibility that new "start menu applications" can be created.

This post has been edited by tsampikos: 11 July 2012 - 03:49 PM

[JorgeA]

tsampikos, on 11 July 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

I don't think that there is such thing as "provoke" Microsoft. Windows 8 comes with no Optical media playback support. 3rd Party apps resolve this issue. Windows 8 comes with no Start button? Again 3rd party apps resolve this matter. That's the way it is and that's the way it always was. There are no bones to cut, just removed a feature which can be restored back. If Microsoft Publisches Beta Win8 versions, which is accessible to developers, it is also sure that they know the possibility that new "start menu applications" can be created.

tsampikos,

So then you don't share Stardock's concern that, as they say:

Quote

We are also not certain how Microsoft will, from a political point of view, feel about some of the things we're doing and would not want them to make changes that would make it harder to do some of the things we're doing

?

The concern is that Microsoft is intent on ending the "old" way of doing things, and that by outsiders creating workarounds to MS's vision for Windows, they might therefore decide to work that much harder to eliminate the possibiity of such workarounds.

This would be a sharp turn from past practice, where as you point out MS was happy to allow third parties to provide whatever features people thought were missing from Windows. Again, the Stardock CEO's concern is that they want to root out all possibility of bringing back a Start Menu.

Is that concern exaggerated, do you think?

--JorgeA

This post has been edited by JorgeA: 11 July 2012 - 04:02 PM

[Fredledingue]

As more and more serious poeple are involved in correcting W8, Microsoft will be forced to let them do it.
They can shrugg off board messages by little MSFN members, but they will have to pay attention of what the guys in the business are saying.
If PC makers are already contacting Startdock for its Start8 app, it would be very embarrassing for MS to push the corck further. IMO it's already very embarrassing for them at present.

Since the Styart Menu is now being developed by private companies (I mean independant) we can expect more improvements to it, more user-friendly options, better look, faster updates etc.

In fact Microsoft should remove all features from Windows so that they can be redesigned better by independant developers.

[JorgeA]

Fredledingue, on 11 July 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

As more and more serious poeple are involved in correcting W8, Microsoft will be forced to let them do it.
They can shrugg off board messages by little MSFN members, but they will have to pay attention of what the guys in the business are saying.
If PC makers are already contacting Startdock for its Start8 app, it would be very embarrassing for MS to push the corck further. IMO it's already very embarrassing for them at present.

Yeah, I go back and forth between hoping for a "good enough" fix for Win8, and hoping that nobody fixes it well enough to save it. I guess that either result is acceptable to me.

Fredledingue, on 11 July 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

Since the Styart Menu is now being developed by private companies (I mean independant) we can expect more improvements to it, more user-friendly options, better look, faster updates etc.

In fact Microsoft should remove all features from Windows so that they can be redesigned better by independant developers.

LOL

--JorgeA

[CharlotteTheHarlot]

Fredledingue, on 11 July 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

As more and more serious poeple are involved in correcting W8, Microsoft will be forced to let them do it.
They can shrugg off board messages by little MSFN members, but they will have to pay attention of what the guys in the business are saying.
If PC makers are already contacting Startdock for its Start8 app, it would be very embarrassing for MS to push the corck further. IMO it's already very embarrassing for them at present.

Since the Styart Menu is now being developed by private companies (I mean independant) we can expect more improvements to it, more user-friendly options, better look, faster updates etc.

In fact Microsoft should remove all features from Windows so that they can be redesigned better by independant developers.

<SARC>

Perhaps one way to get rid of mandatory Metro would be to gather Stardock and the developers of the other Start Menu replacements and Program Launchers and with a united front contact the DoJ about this built-in-to-the-OS start screen. Somehow the logic began by Netscape and pushed by government lawyers carried a lot of weight in the past. Remember Microsoft: 'sorry, MSIE is integral to Windows operation' And remember the government techie showing how it could easily be removed!

</SARC>

Of course that is sarcasm but I want to illustrate the absolute nonsensical arrogance that is Team B&S. They are pressing ahead with a disastrous choice (replacement vs optional) with Metro and are severely alienating their natural allies (like myself) to the point of anger and disgust. They are not just walking into a potential repeat of the recent past, but hard-charging like a bull-in-a-china-shop breaking everything in sight.

As much as I despised that petty MSIE Netscape fiasco (and still do) I have now learned to despise Team B&S even more.

Microsoft Windows 8 : Because Freedom of Choice is overrated!

[tsampikos]

If Microsoft wanted to cut off the Start Menu's Head, this would have happened from the beginning. There wouldn't be any possibility to replace the missing start button and the missing start menu. But that's not the case! I think that Microsoft won't even react to this....On the contrary.....I fully agree with @Fredledingue. Also an official Microsoft Statement like "it's forbidden to replace the start menu- or start button" , "replacing the start menu is not recommended" would be a huge disaster for Microsoft. They know they can't do that. They know that if they make Windows non -customizable this will be the end of WIndows. Consumers and supporters are not STUPID. They wouldn't pay so much money for such a non user friendly OS that doesn't remind of WIndows at all.

[MagicAndre1981]

JorgeA, on 10 July 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

Good news: Stardock is coming out with a new version of Start8 that will enable users to boot straight to the Desktop.

this version is now out. Check your email account which you used to download it.

[Tihiy]

I've ported Windows 7 explorer.exe to Windows 8 RP.


That wasn't very easy and far enough from being complete, but result is working Windows 7 native desktop. Start menu pinning and MFU program list was chopped up completely from shell32, other things (search, all programs, system shortcuts customization, systray, desktop, taskbar, etc.) work. Metro isn't started; metro apps and UI don't work.

Now tell me if this kind of thing is feasible for you. It requires explorer.exe and maybe couple of other files from win7.
I'm planning to upload beta version soon; tell me which sites could be interested in this kind of thing.

This post has been edited by Tihiy: 12 July 2012 - 01:02 AM

[MagicAndre1981]

nice. But you should not provide Windows 7 files in our tool. MSFN doesn't allow redist of Windows files.

[JorgeA]

MagicAndre1981, on 12 July 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

nice. But you should not provide Windows 7 files in our tool. MSFN doesn't allow redist of Windows files.

Is it conceivable that Tihiy might post a procedure for accomplishing what he did, rather than uploading OS files? (The assumption would be that the user already has the necessary files, and only needs to port and modify them accordingly.) Or would the procedure be too difficult to replicate?

--JorgeA