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Questions to XP diehards :)

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#1
xpclient

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So MSFNers, I am new here and this forum seems to "my idea" of what a decent online Windows community should be, where people can talk without insults and belittling. So as a Windows enthusiast, I have a few curious questions:
1. How many of you are XP diehards with no intention of moving to Windows 7/Vista?
2. Are you trying to move to Windows 7 but facing some migration issue or removed features? What are they or why haven't you moved to Windows 7?
3. What will be the fate of poor use XP diehards if MS never fixes those issues?
4. Even if you have migrated to Windows 7, do you miss something from XP or did you like XP more?

Some answers I would like to give to these question for myself:
1. XP was my idea of the perfect OS (well not the security before SP2 and UAC is certainly the right step) but otherwise it was really good. Since Longhorn betas, I am trying to move to Windows Vista/7 but was blocked by many issues..mainly removed features (which I'm sure you must have read now). I absolutely love and adore many features of Windows Vista/7 too, these are also great OSes. So my intention is to move to Windows 7 of course, I am not a luddite clinging on to obsolete stuff but I will FOREVER keep XP running natively on at least one PC but the superb backward compatibility for dozens of games and old apps it offers all the way back which a virtual machine can't do justice to.
2. After years of finding alternatives and making compromises, learning the new way of doing things and ignoring the minor issues, almost all of my issues with Vista/7 are gone except the auto sorting problem. (For numerous reasons, I won't use a third party file manager, there isn't one that I like) :(
3. Good news: XP x64 will get security patches till July 2015 because of Server 2003 codebase. Are you concerned like me about End of Life?
4. I will miss a few things of XP even if I move to W7 like service pack slipstreaming (what better fun place than MSFN to do all the unattended stuff) but Vista/7 have far better deployment tools, and the speed of servicing which was extremely fast. I will miss the surround sound support in old games (but Alchemy fixes some of them), I will miss XP Media Center whose UI I find very much better etc.

You need not answer all four questions. :) I just want to know how many MSFNers still like Windows XP without me getting strange looks.

Impossible to run NT6 without third party fixes.



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#2
-X-

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I see all the hate you get at Neowin. I do too. MSFN users generally let you like what you like and not belittle you for it.

I don't feel like writing a lot so I'll just tell you that I have no plans to move from XP even after 2014. Maybe I'll finally install an AV product then but seeing as most attack vectors come through IE, I should be pretty safe.

Just a few reasons why I won't use Windows 7 as my primary OS...

Bloat
Search
Windows Explorer
Start Menu
.NET Framework
IE9
UAC
TrustedInstaller
Draconion permissions
Installation DVD

Edited by -X-, 18 June 2012 - 05:47 AM.

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#3
ricktendo

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I think Windows 7 is the new XP, in the sense that Windows 8 is gonna suck and people who buy PC's with 8 preinstalled will downgrade to 7 (just like they downgraded to XP when they bought a PC with Vista)

I personally dual boot XP and 7 but mostly use Windows 7

#4
allen2

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Just like many users, i am still using XP because the new UI in vista or seven is very different and make me search for everything (unlike XP that i didn't need to search that much to do everything).
But there are "features" in seven that are more than a hassle for me: winsxs growth, the search tool and windows explorer. If i were to migrate i would have to get rid of those before. The real great features in seven, are (obviously) the fact it is more recent and then better suported (TRIM support won't be released for XP by Microsoft) and the possibility of the widgets and many other tunable things (that allow the desktop to be more personalized).
But perhaps, in some new OS, Microsoft or another one (Apple ? Google? ) will create a better desktop with a more intuitive explorer etc...

Edited by allen2, 17 June 2012 - 02:28 PM.


#5
5eraph

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  • My hardware dictates OS choice. My desktop uses XPx64 and my laptop uses Win7x64. They'll continue with their respective OSes until they are irreparable. They work the way I want them to work and I see no reason to change that. For the record, I use my XPx64 machine far more than the laptop; it has better specs.
  • While I do prefer XP, please see #1.
  • Officially, XPx64 support ends a year earlier than Win2003. It remains to be seen whether Microsoft will prevent Win2003 security updates from installing on XP.
  • See #2.


#6
UltimateSilence

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1. I have a desktop that dual boots between Vista and 7. As soon as I can find a Windows XP retail disc for sale, it will soon be a triple-boot configuration. :ph34r:

4. I miss the ability to choose. XP is wonderful to me because it allows me to freely switch between the old and new, or mix the two. That and I absolutely love it's blue interface. :wub:

Edited by UltimateSilence, 17 June 2012 - 03:11 PM.

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#7
GrofLuigi

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I guess I could be considered an XP diehard, although I use mostly Server 2003 as workstation. But for all practical purposes, I could use XP and my attitude would be the same.

1/2. I had an honest intention to move to Vista/7, and I installed every iteration of them (every service pack as clean install) in dual boot, but they never won my heart enough to deserve the position of most used OS by me. I either tweaked them out to unbootability or was disgusted by the bloat when untweaked. I don't care about the GUI, I use Total Commander 95% of the time, but something inside me can't stay calm when I see all the unefficiency and wastefulness. XP/2003 isn't a star either, but with some work it can be 'calmed down'. For Vista/7, there is no hope. So now I have fully functional and lightly tweaked second boot of 7 SP1 which I rarely boot into because it gives me no joy.

3. I don't care about official 'support'. The only thing that could ever spoil the party would be manufacturer's conspiracy to not release drivers for XP. It's starting to happen now, but luckily most manufacturers still have some sense to not shrink their sales. On the contrary, I can't find x64 drivers for my cheap webcam and old TV Tuner card.

4. I miss Quick Launch. Every installation of 7 I've tried deletes it on reboot (although recreated as per some site instructions, and even if moved to another place; and believe me, I've tried everything), so I've adapted to the 'pinning' way, but it's not the same. Minor thing, but I bet it's another MSFT's way of disciplining users.

GL

#8
LoneCrusader

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Just a quick thumbs up from a Windows 9X DieHard. :thumbup

More power to you all for hanging on to what you like and refusing to simply go with the flow.

The only thing that could ever spoil the party would be manufacturer's conspiracy to not release drivers for XP.

This is the greatest obstacle for us 9x'ers as well. :(

#9
dencorso

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Ditto, from a double dinosaur (9x and XP diehard). :thumbup

As for the End of Life, no, I don't fear it at all: been there, done that and remain here to tell the story.
When all official support ends, a bunch of committed diehards takes over. It happened before, and will happen again.

#10
xpclient

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@Everyone. Nice. Keep them coming. I am reassured to read I'm not alone and it's also interesting to read the various reasons. :) My concern is inability to run it natively though due to lack of drivers. Sandy Bridge and Sandy Bridge-E are I think the last Intel platforms (if you prefer Intel for performance) where XP will be supported. With Ivy Bridge/7-Series chipsets, there aren't USB 3.0 drivers for Intel's XHCI controller (not even Vista is supported, only W7!!), there may not be AHCI/F6 drivers for XP although I read somewhere chipset drivers and integrated graphics drivers were still made available for XP by Intel. So enthusiasts, now is the time to get your highest end Sandy Bridge-Extreme (X79+Core i7 3960X) and put XP x64 on it.

@ allen2, agree 100%. WinSxS is a real downside to Windows 7. In fact it negates the benefits Windows 7 has for SSDs (automatic TRIM etc in MSAHCI) because if you have a low capacity SSD, and you install heavy programs and games you're screwed. I am a staunch opponent of the Component Based Servicing current design that Vista/7 use which contributes to WinSxS growth and is the core reason for the bloat in Vista/7.

@5eraph Oh dear. That is certainly a thing to worry about. Maybe they do that because XPx64 is only *based on*, not 100% identical to Server 2003 x64. But yes MS could do that and prevent them from installing. Then we would have to create unofficial updates. ;) (Tomasx86 is doing such a great job for Windows 2000 updates). But at the same time, I'm not intimidated or paranoid about support ending, just a little bit concerned because we don't know how aggressive in-the-wild attacks will occur on XP due to its large market share once support ends.

@GrofLuigi, Isn't that Quick Launch disappearing on reboot problem related to the Language Bar? If you disable the Windows 7 Language Bar, it won't disappear. And if you need and use the Language Bar, you can just create a folder called "QuickLaunch" instead of "Quick Launch" and it won't disappear. ;)

Impossible to run NT6 without third party fixes.


#11
5eraph

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There is a workaround that's fairly easy if you're familiar with hex editing. It works for me.

#12
xpclient

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There is a workaround that's fairly easy if you're familiar with hex editing. It works for me.


Oh great. If it just takes a simple hex edit, then that's no problem. Why do you think MS did that though? Maybe some binaries of XP x64 and Server 2003 x64 aren't 100% identical. Can that be the reason they produced Server 2003-only hotfixes?

Impossible to run NT6 without third party fixes.


#13
tomasz86

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Why do you think MS did that though? Maybe some binaries of XP x64 and Server 2003 x64 aren't 100% identical. Can that be the reason they produced Server 2003-only hotfixes?

Maybe those hotfixes were related to system components available only in Server 2003 x64 and not in XP x64? It's probably the same thing as hotfixes only for Windows 2000 Server or only for Windows 2000 Advanced/Datacenter Server, etc.
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#14
5eraph

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Maybe some binaries of XP x64 and Server 2003 x64 aren't 100% identical. Can that be the reason they produced Server 2003-only hotfixes?

Maybe those hotfixes were related to system components available only in Server 2003 x64 and not in XP x64?

If you read further I give what explanations I can. The decision appears to be arbitrary. They do apply to XPx64 but XPx64 is past its mainstream support date, which means it's only supposed to receive security updates.

#15
GrofLuigi

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@GrofLuigi, Isn't that Quick Launch disappearing on reboot problem related to the Language Bar? If you disable the Windows 7 Language Bar, it won't disappear. And if you need and use the Language Bar, you can just create a folder called "QuickLaunch" instead of "Quick Launch" and it won't disappear. ;)

I always disable the Language bar. And I've named the folder FastStart, placed it in various places on the HDD, gave everyone full permissions or restricted permissions to noone but me, to no avail. I see many people had promlems with it. But it's a topic for another topic :) and currently i don't care much about it.

GL

#16
xpclient

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Is there no tool for Vista/7/8 to programmatically turn on the Quick Launch which can be run at every startup.

Impossible to run NT6 without third party fixes.


#17
cyberformer

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Hello XP individuals!

Though I am resident at the Win 9x areas of this excellent place, I do have and use XP on some of my computers, and enjoy them to the hilt.
Not nearly so much as my beloved 98e! .... 95, and even Me....
but certainly enough to regard XP as a most useful and excellent system.

I do not care one iota about support ending for any of the "legacy" operating systems I "WILL" to use.
Security is not a problem, being that I am secure in the knowledge of how to be reasonably secure. Even if a virus screwed one of my machines over big time....I fret not.....
for I backup everything quite frequently, and most of all, thoroughly ENJOY installing OS systems! Its no thing to dread for me, for I never grow weary of going through the entire install/reinstall process.
Using fdisk, floppies and popping in that install CD....is one very enjoyable experience for me! In the beginning, when I was a neophyte to the PC...such things where problems; now that I know how easy it all is....I relish the experience.

Where there is a Will there is a way. If one gives into fear about all the things people espouse in their attempts to sway one from using the OS you enjoy, and choose to use, then there is no thing you can really do then....other than exhibit a great lack of resolve.

As I've said many a time, the only thing that continues to "worry" me, is eventual lack of IPV6 support in my 9x systems; and yes, even in the XP ones...though not nearly so much.
Even then...should such problems arise...I shall not be dissuaded from using the Operating Systems I choose and WILL to use!
All such problems will be tackled, solved, and surmounted in my continued use of computers.

#18
cdob

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Windows Embedded POSReady 2009 is based on XP.
http://www.microsoft...ready-2009.aspx

Mainstream support until April 2014. Extended support until April 2019.


Ask again in 2015.

#19
Andromeda43

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I made the upgrade, from Windows 98 to XP about 12 years ago, skipping Windows ME all together.
When Vista came out, I tested it and determined It was not for me.
Likewise when Win-7 came out, it too went seriously wanting. It won't run the programs that I use every day.

Now I'm testing Windows 8, both 32 bit on a laptop and 64 bit on a desktop.
Again, I find it seriously lacking.

So it looks like XP-Pro-SP3 will continue to be my OS of choice till they drop me in a hole and kick dirt in on top of me.

Long Live XP Fanatics!

B)
A person with experience is never at the mercy of a person with an argument.

#20
Dogway

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I remember changing to XP when trying to capture some video with Windows 2000 and having performance problems, somebody on mirc recommended me XP, and it was like night and day. The problem with microsoft and all their versions after XP is they lost their focal point, they went from a well balanced looks plus efficiency, to just looks and bloat, (cutting some options on the way).

It started from the first screenshot I saw ("jeeeez looks like playskool crap") and it got worse when I saw the move/copy dialog, the "bread crumbs", the removal of the inverse selection, the winsxs folder getting bigger, all the crazyness with permissions, the tree list bug, the ribbon interface, etc.

The only thing I miss from 7 is DX11, nothing else, but as I don't game with computers I'm fine. Also I would like a better file copier for XP or explorer in general.
I guess I will move from XP when I start to miss drivers for my devices or lack of support for certain hardware features. Most probably to Ubuntu, hopefully very late in time.

#21
xpclient

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I would like a better file copier for XP or explorer in general.


Here's a better one: http://jstanley.ping...com/pscopy.html


Posted Image

Doesn't prompt if you don't want it to, and can queue copy operations (start another only after one has finished). And skips all errors upon copy and continues copying and prompts only for files with errors at the end.And works for delete too. Continues deleting files which don't give errors and prompts at the end only for files in use which may have caused errors. IMO, a first class copier and the UI is the native Windows one, there are TeraCopy etc but I can't stand their UI being someone who obssesses with UI and User experience. :}

Edited by xpclient, 20 June 2012 - 04:34 AM.

Impossible to run NT6 without third party fixes.


#22
Dogway

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let's check that, looks promising.
I tested like a dozen of them and each had something I didn't like, as for Teracopy it had issues on my system, check this video. Lately I had been keeping an eye to UltraCopier, kind of a mix between Teracopy and supercopier.
I don't want to turn this into an app discussion but as a give back, I recommend Everything as a file searcher.
XP is far from perfect, but in my opinion is the best, add some useful applications like these and it gives me perfection placebo.

#23
tomasz86

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As we are talking about applications in my opinion this is one of the most useful ones:

Taskbar Shuffle

As its name says it allows you to change the order of taskbar and tray icons... but this is only one of its features. The other one is the ability to close applications by using middle-click on taskbar. I find it extremely comfortable and couldn't really use Windows without it anymore.
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#24
xpclient

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Ah, taskbar shuffle! Yes it's in my must-use essential list of apps for XP.

I have a question for tomasz86 to which I never found a satisfactory answer whenever I have asked it. If the scroll wheel takes the place of the middle click (and even though you can click the scroll wheel), how do you find it comfortable enough? I own a high end mouse but find it far too uncomfortable to click the scroll wheel to middle click. Get what I mean? Maybe I am using the wrong "high end" mouse. :)

@Dogway, I couldn't say :PerigeeCopy is perfect. It does have a number of limitations like it doens't highlight the files it copied like Windows' native copy does, it shows speeds only in KB/s and many such others. But it gets the job done for me better. I have done extremely long backups with it too and found them all completed in the morning after leaving them overnight.

Edited by xpclient, 20 June 2012 - 12:22 PM.

Impossible to run NT6 without third party fixes.


#25
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I got used to middle click with Firefox (open in new tab). I used to hate it because it took more pressure to click. I have a Logitech G9x.

Download all Windows XP Post SP3 High-Priority Updates with a simple double click @ xdot.tk post-12166-0-42859000-1399044129.png ]
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