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Moving win 95 hdd to new computer

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#1
hyphagon

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Hi,

I was running a dell dimension xps t700r with win95 until the mobo went. Now I've taken the hdd out and cloned it in another machine onto a sata hdd and iinstalled it into a spare dell dimension 8400 pc. It has a p4 chip in it. When I try and boot it comes up with windows protection error. Please restart your computer. However it still boots in safe mode. I also tried running through the step by step start up. if clicking yes to loading the registry it goes back to options where i can select safe mode etc. But then going through step by step it doesn't ask it again. however it still fails to start after loading drivers with same message.

The reason i want this hdd is because i got some software on it that i don't know how to re-install again on a fresh copy.

Is it possible to get this system running or am i just wasting my time?

Cheers


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#2
huguia

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When you run Windows 95 on a computer whose cpu is over 2.2 GHZ you have to appl a patch in order to get it to work. Search this forum in the 9x Member Projects section and you will find help

#3
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Well first of all, that model 8400 definitely has one of Dell's better BIOS chips with lots of settings, particularly those concerning SATA operation mode with AHCI and IDE. So whatever HDD you plan on dropping in there, the existing Windows installation (on that HDD) it's storage interface (which is cooked into that registry) would need to match the BIOS setting. This is the cause of so many Blue Screen protection errors. Toggle between AHCI and IDE to get past the first hurdle.

But ... that is the least of your problems anyway because IIRC that is an i925 family chipset and I never have heard of chipset drivers for Win9x (but I would love to be proven wrong). Consequently I believe the best you can hope for is to run Win9x in 'compatibility mode' where Windows 95 disk access will be limited to something like 16 MB/s maximum speed.

But ... the Dell 8400's I've seen all had P4 Prescott chips in the 3+ GHz range. There may be a CPU bottleneck because I remember some theoretical problem with using Win95 on far-off-into-future processors over 2 GHz (Win95 came out when the i386 and i486 was popular, even before the Pentium I, and all CPU's were still measured in MHz). If this error occurs it would most likely also be a BSOD (blue screen of death).

The best chance for success would be to drop a HDD from a perfectly working Win98se system that is SATA-1 aware ('IDE Mode') and preferably has a late Win9x-compatible Intel chipset like i865 cooked into its registry. You'll probably still be stuck in compatibility mode, but since that HDD speed pretty much matches what he had back in 1995 to 1996 or 1997 it might just be interesting enough to try.

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#4
LoneCrusader

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To use Windows 95 on >2.1 GHz processors you will need my FIX95CPU patch. As previously noted it is in the "member projects" section.

If you can set your SATA Hard Drive to IDE compatibility mode, then you may have some chance of loading the OS. Otherwise you would need RLoew's SATA patch.

You will have to live without drivers for your motherboard as there are no Windows 95 drivers for Intel Chipsets later than 845. :no:

#5
CharlotteTheHarlot

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There are definitely drivers for i865.

EDIT: Well, definitely for Win98se. Not sure about Win95 gold and OSR.

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 11 July 2012 - 08:22 PM.

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#6
LoneCrusader

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There are definitely drivers for i865.

EDIT: Well, definitely for Win98se. Not sure about Win95 gold and OSR.

Yes. :thumbup

98SE Support continued until AT LEAST the 875 Chipset (using version 6.3.0.1007 of the INF Update utility), because I have several 875 Chipset motherboards that work with 98SE.

95 and 98FE support ended with the 845 Chipset (and version 3.20.1008 of the INF Update Utility).

There is a package at Intel's Website that CLAIMS to support Windows 98SE/ME and claims support for up to the 925 Series Chipset, HOWEVER, I cannot get the installer to run on a 98SE System. :unsure:

I've been meaning to dig deeper into the issue, but haven't had the opportunity. Maybe someone would care to inspect the file and see if there is anything useful for Windows 9X in it?

#7
CharlotteTheHarlot

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98SE Support continued until AT LEAST the 875 Chipset (using version 6.3.0.1007 of the INF Update utility), because I have several 875 Chipset motherboards that work with 98SE.

95 and 98FE support ended with the 845 Chipset (and version 3.20.1008 of the INF Update Utility).

There is a package at Intel's Website that CLAIMS to support Windows 98SE/ME and claims support for up to the 925 Series Chipset, HOWEVER, I cannot get the installer to run on a 98SE System. :unsure:

I've been meaning to dig deeper into the issue, but haven't had the opportunity. Maybe someone would care to inspect the file and see if there is anything useful for Windows 9X in it?


Holy Moley. Thanks for that! :thumbup I have a couple of i925x lying about, probably the same Dells as the OP (I believe they all have WinXP but have not had reason to even turn them on).

I'll grab that INF installer right now and have a look (eventually). There may be some life in those old Win98se bones yet.

EDIT: I hope that this doesn't mean what I think: Chipset: INF Update Utility for 848, 865, 875, 910, 915, 925 Chipset-Based Intel Desktop Boards

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 11 July 2012 - 10:14 PM.

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#8
LoneCrusader

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Holy Moley. Thanks for that! :thumbup I have a couple of i925x lying about, probably the same Dells as the OP (I believe they all have WinXP but have not had reason to even turn them on).

I'll grab that INF installer right now and have a look (eventually). There may be some life in those old Win98se bones yet.

EDIT: I hope that this doesn't mean what I think: Chipset: INF Update Utility for 848, 865, 875, 910, 915, 925 Chipset-Based Intel Desktop Boards

No problem. :angel

I will be most anxious to hear your results. As I noted I have not been able to get that installer to run on a 98SE system (and I was using an Intel-manufactured i865 board when I tried to run it). I don't remember the exact problem now, I think it was a "Device attached to the system is not functioning" or a "missing export" or something like that when it refuses to run. Don't think I ever tested it on Windows ME. I reverted to the older one that works and haven't experimented with it since.

Edited by LoneCrusader, 11 July 2012 - 10:19 PM.


#9
hyphagon

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Thanks for the help,

I've currently got sata set to raid autodetect/AHCI so I'm guessing that the hdd drive settings are ok since it can load the OS in safe mode and begins to load the OS normally (it shows the window icon briefly before failing). Also just a side note I never encounter BSOD its always just on a black screen. with no other writing. Also since it can load safe mode surely then it can load the processor? though I'll look into this patch now.

Another note is that the keyboard and mouse I'm using are both usb and its having no problems with those, though in device manager its showing them as ps/2. Likewise the hdd is shown as ide.

Cheers

#10
submix8c

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If you can set your SATA Hard Drive to IDE compatibility mode, then you may have some chance of loading the OS.

I've currently got sata set to raid autodetect/AHCI

:wacko: :whistle:

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#11
rloew

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Thanks for the help,

I've currently got sata set to raid autodetect/AHCI so I'm guessing that the hdd drive settings are ok since it can load the OS in safe mode and begins to load the OS normally (it shows the window icon briefly before failing). Also just a side note I never encounter BSOD its always just on a black screen. with no other writing. Also since it can load safe mode surely then it can load the processor? though I'll look into this patch now.

Another note is that the keyboard and mouse I'm using are both usb and its having no problems with those, though in device manager its showing them as ps/2. Likewise the hdd is shown as ide.

Cheers

AHCI is NOT compatable with Windows 9x. It requires protected mode operation and Windows 9x will crash well before it could possibly load a driver.
I was able to Patch the firmware on a Highpoint card to not crash, but there are no AHCI drivers for Windows 9x in any case.
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#12
LoneCrusader

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If you can set your SATA Hard Drive to IDE compatibility mode, then you may have some chance of loading the OS.

I've currently got sata set to raid autodetect/AHCI

:wacko: :whistle:

Problem? :whistle:

I don't see "IDE" anywhere in what the OP had posted, and somehow I don't think SATA "RAID" is going to help run Windows 9x. :huh:

#13
rloew

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If you can set your SATA Hard Drive to IDE compatibility mode, then you may have some chance of loading the OS.

I've currently got sata set to raid autodetect/AHCI

:wacko: :whistle:

Problem? :whistle:

I don't see "IDE" anywhere in what the OP had posted, and somehow I don't think SATA "RAID" is going to help run Windows 9x. :huh:

SATA RAID is not a problem unless it forces AHCI. I have alternative SATA Patches for RAID.
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#14
submix8c

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Problem? :whistle:

Yes - the OP disregarded your recommendation. ;)

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#15
LoneCrusader

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Problem? :whistle:

Yes - the OP disregarded your recommendation. ;)

:lol:
I thought that was directed at me. Sorry!

#16
CharlotteTheHarlot

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That BIOS has the following 4 choices for SATA Operation ...

RAID Autodetect / AHCI = RAID if signed drives, otherwise AHCI
RAID Autodetect / ATA = RAID if signed drives, otherwise ATA
RAID On = SATA is configured for RAID on every boot
Combination = SATA/PATA combination mode


I wonder what the difference will be between the 2nd and 4th option with regard to Win9x?

To RLOEW, any opinion on this. Also did you see the post above that describes i925 chipset drivers for Win9x? I'd be very interested to know if you have researched this!

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#17
jaclaz

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RAID On = SATA is configured for RAID on every boot

OT :ph34r: , sometimes I wonder if people actually READ what they write. :w00t:
I mean the good guys that wrote the BIOS "illustrating" string.

Would this imply that there is a possible setting for :

RAID OOn = SATA is configured for RAID on every Other boot

and one for :

RAID OFF = SATA is configured for RAID only on some boot, oFten but not too oFten


:angel
:lol:

jaclaz

#18
CharlotteTheHarlot

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RAID OFF = SATA is configured for RAID only on some boot, oFten but not too oFten

LOL! Sometimes I think accuracy would demand something like these ...

MIASOBWHNIWDWBF = Mixed IDE and SATA operation but we have no idea which drive will boot first

IARWFACAWWGI = IDE and RAID will flip a coin and whoever wins gets initialized

YGIAGAO = Your guess is as good as ours

TSWSOITOSB = These settings will stick only if the Operating System behaves


They are all merely descendants of their common ancestor ...

PnP OS = Plug and Pray compatible Operating System

EDIT: typos in my proposed acronyms!

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 13 July 2012 - 03:10 PM.

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#19
jaclaz

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YGIAGAO = Your guess is as good as ours

Naah, this one would be UNpolite :ph34r: (remember that most of the good guys that write BIOSes are from the far East), what you could have:
YGISBTO = Your guess is surely better than ours

On the other hand, if our good friend Sinofsky would put his hands on BIOSes, you would have the simplification of only one choice:
WYCWWDWWFBFY8=Whatever you choose we will do whatever we find better for you (8 means than only Windows 8 will ever boot from this PC)


jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 13 July 2012 - 01:27 PM.


#20
rloew

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That BIOS has the following 4 choices for SATA Operation ...

RAID Autodetect / AHCI = RAID if signed drives, otherwise AHCI
RAID Autodetect / ATA = RAID if signed drives, otherwise ATA
RAID On = SATA is configured for RAID on every boot
Combination = SATA/PATA combination mode


I wonder what the difference will be between the 2nd and 4th option with regard to Win9x?

To RLOEW, any opinion on this. Also did you see the post above that describes i925 chipset drivers for Win9x? I'd be very interested to know if you have researched this!

I have not researched the i295 chipset. So far, I have been able to support all modern PATA and SATA controllers, except for an AHCI-only Marvell based Highpoint Card.
If it boots in AHCI Mode but can be switched to non-AHCI, I can write a DDO to support it.
If it reports AHCI capability (Class 0106) but does not default to AHCI, I can support it.
I can support RAID Mode (Class 0104), most SCSI Mode (0180), and Legacy, Native and IDE Mode (Class 0101) Controllers.
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#21
submix8c

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Hmmm... according to comments/investigation above, the OP needs to switch to Option#2 -
RAID Autodetect / ATA = RAID if signed drives, otherwise ATA <---ATA-mode (no drivers)
-or-
Bite the bullet and get the patches (not free) from rloew and hope it works...

OP's choice if they want to boot that sucker! In addition to any "free" patches provided here (ref. LoneCrusader and any other tips).

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#22
dencorso

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"Combination" might mean "IDE Mode". That or "RAID On", without creating an actual RAID array, ought to do OK.
That and RLoew's patch, and the OP is all set. And in case of any issue, RLoew's support and follow up is superb. :thumbup




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