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Laser98IX

"B:" diskette not seen in Win98SE -- SOLVED

30 posts in this topic

Win98SE installed and working fine, but with two diskettes installed the second drive, "B:" isn't seen in Windows Explorer, nor can I run any prog's from it using the "RUN" prompt from the "START" button.

:(

After I couldn't see the B: drive I shutdown, rebooted, hit the F8 key to get to the command prompt, and DOS "sees" and can read/write to both A: and B: no problem. But if I boot to Windows I still don't see the drive. What the heck is going on???

:no:

It's obvious I've forgotten something, but what could it be? (As soon as someone provides the answer I'm going to smack my forehead and ask myself why I didn't think of that.) :lol:

Edited by Laser98IX
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But if I boot to Windows I still don't see the drive. What the heck is going on???

Windows or Windows Explorer?

What happen if you open a command window while booted in GUI Windows 9x?

jaclaz

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But if I boot to Windows I still don't see the drive. What the heck is going on???

Windows or Windows Explorer?

What happen if you open a command window while booted in GUI Windows 9x?

jaclaz

My first test was in Windows Explorer.

Under "My Computer" I see the 3 1/2 Floppy (A:) but I don't see the second physically installed B: drive. The next item below the A: drive is my C: drive.

Here's the test based on your request.

While looking at the Win98 GUI I did this (with results):

Click on "START"

"Programs"

"MS-DOS Prompt"

Screen goes black and I see this:

Microsoft® Windows 98

©Copyright Miscrosoft Corp 1981-1999.

C:\WINDOWS> _

A: <enter>

result = A:\> _

DIR <enter>

(files seen) and then A:\ _

B: <enter>

result = full blue screen with this text centered:

MS-DOS Prompt (in white box)

Please Insert Diskette for Drive B:

Press any key to continue

(hit any key)

result = B:\> _

-- but back on original A: drive and not on second diskette drive fractions of an inch above it.

The machine never "sees" the second physical drive. It tries to use the original "A:" drive as "B:"

If I "EXIT" back to the GUI, and then return to MS-DOS Prompt using instructions above the B:\ prompt comes up. I have to type A: <enter> first and then EXIT <enter> for the A: drive prompt to be seen.

I don't understand why it's doing this, because if I boot straight to DOS both diskettes are seen.

I know I've seen this before years ago, but I've slept since then, and I've forgotten what the solution is.

:realmad:

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1 - Second 3-1/2 or 5-1/4?

2 - Correct "twisted cable"?

3 - If (1) above some older ones have jumpers (model #'s are on them - check it out)

4 - look at this screenshot - is this set? If not, Windows won't even look...

post-72994-0-41225600-1342631669_thumb.j

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:thumbup EXCELLENT!!! :thumbup

Thanks, jaclaz.

:yes:

I've already read through that page once, and as soon as I saw the IRQ topics I did a head-slap that should have triggered a few Richter sensors in the area.

I'll report progress later.

1 - Second 3-1/2 or 5-1/4?

2 - Correct "twisted cable"?

3 - If (1) above some older ones have jumpers (model #'s are on them - check it out)

4 - look at this screenshot - is this set? If not, Windows won't even look...

1 = both 3.5"

2 = forgive me for sounding ignorant, but if the cable wasn't the correct one

wouldn't the BIOS report an error during IPL

- or -

DOS report an error during drive access

- or -

one or both drive lights remain on after power on?

3 = both drives Epson Mod# SMD-300

Internal jumpers on both set to "ID-1".

Cables didn't used to have the "twist" in them.

Drives were configured as either A: or B: by setting jumpers.

No longer -- the "twist" fixes that.

DOS sees A: and B: properly, so it isn't the jumpers.

4 = yes, just like the one in the image you've provided

Thanks, submix8c. :hello:

Now for the Mea Culpa: I'm running '98SE (with no problems) on a single board computer Mod# PCA-6176 manufactured by Advantech. If you do a search for "PCA 6176" you'll see lots of surplus companies listing them for sale. I got mine during somebody's garage cleanout. It's unusual [to me] only because everything is on a single board, IDE, FDD, LAN, VGA, serial, keybd, with pins for USB and LPT.

I love to collect unusual computer hardware and attempt to run '98SE on as many as I can. Call me a glutton for punishment.

======================= UPDATES HERE =======================

I've downloaded both the DOS & Win32 versions of "HWiNFO".

I've run both, or at least tried to.

DOS Ver5.5.2

hwinfo -r <enter>

ran fine

saved the report

reviewed the details

saw both diskette drives

lots of stuff in report -- too much to make sense of for me

file can be attached later if requested

HWiNFO32_400 (for Win98SE)

crashed immediately with BSOD (results below)

A fatal exception 0D has occurred at 0020:C197F74A in VXD

HWiNFO32(01) + 000002CA. The system application will be terminated.

It's obvious I don't know which options to choose on the "Settings" screens

Any more ideas or suggestions?

ps. I ran both DOS and Win versions on my EZ65, but neither ran.

Same results (Exception 0D) in Win, and in DOS is just sits there

with the "System Information" screen -- and sits there -- and sits there -------

I finally rebooted after ten minutes.

Update 01: @submix8c, #4 above as per image

Update 02: @submix8c, #3 above updated

Update 03: @jaclaz, I will install both DOS & Win HWiNFO and examine IRQ's next

Update 04: @jaclaz, Bad news about HWiNFO32 above (at bottom of post).

Waiting for ideas or suggestions ....................

Edited by Laser98IX
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Don't know whether it will be useful or not, but I saw this thread and remembered that some of the motherboards I have collected to build Windows 9x systems have manuals that specifically state that only one floppy drive is supported.

This despite the fact that the same boards support IDE RAID, and have SATA ports, so theoretically could support 8 or more "other" drives. :blink:

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Don't know whether it will be useful or not, but I saw this thread and remembered that some of the motherboards I have collected to build Windows 9x systems have manuals that specifically state that only one floppy drive is supported.

This despite the fact that the same boards support IDE RAID, and have SATA ports, so theoretically could support 8 or more "other" drives. :blink:

Thanks for the information, LoneCrusader.

:hello:

I just finished looking at the PCA-6176 User's Manual p/n 2006617610 2nd Edition, and it says the user can connect up to two of any configuration of 3.5" and 5.25" floppy diskette drives. That was confirmed by DOS reading both the A: and B: drives. :yes:

Now I've got to figure out how to get '98 to do the same. :realmad:

Thanks again for encouraging me to verify my assumptions with the printed manual. :thumbup

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It's unusual [to me] only because everything is on a single board, IDE, FDD, LAN, VGA, serial, keybd, with pins for USB and LPT.

Do you actually use the Serial or Parallel ports? If not, I'd recommend disabling them in the BIOS. No reason to use up resources for things you never use. :angel

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It's unusual [to me] only because everything is on a single board, IDE, FDD, LAN, VGA, serial, keybd, with pins for USB and LPT.

Do you actually use the Serial or Parallel ports? If not, I'd recommend disabling them in the BIOS. No reason to use up resources for things you never use. :angel

Thanks Tripredacus.

:hello:

The COM1 serial port is being used for the mouse, but I can turn off COM2 since I've got both a LAN and USB connections. For that matter I can remove the LAN device in the Device Manager unless I have a need for it, and then turn that IRQ off as well.

I haven't done any printing yet, so I suppose I can turn that off too. I just hope I remember to turn everything back on if and when I need them.

:lol:

I'll look for any devices that aren't being used and turn them off. I'll compile a list and include it here later.

:thumbup

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Added to the bottom of my post to make certain everyone sees the latest update.

(from original post higher up the screen)

HWiNFO32_400 (for Win98SE)

crashed immediately with BSOD (results below)

A fatal exception 0D has occurred at 0020:C197F74A in VXD

HWiNFO32(01) + 000002CA. The system application will be terminated.

It's obvious I don't know which options to choose on the "Settings" screens

Any more ideas or suggestions?

ps. I ran both DOS and Win versions on my EZ65, but neither ran.

Same results (Exception 0D) in Win, and in DOS is just sits there

with the "System Information" screen -- and sits there -- and sits there -------

I finally rebooted after ten minutes.

Update 05: I've located 4 more 3.5" diskette drives.

Update 06: I'll substitute, two at a time, for the Epson SMD-300's and post results.

Update 07: I'll snap some photos of my configuration so others can see it. Posted soon.

Waiting for any other ideas or suggestions ....................

ps. I saw a post in the "Introductions" forum regarding bold fonts, colored text, and so on. I'll keep from doing that in the future so I don't inflame the members.

Edited by Laser98IX
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both drives Epson Mod# SMD-300

Hi Laser98IX,

Maybe there is an issue if 2 identical floppy drives are connected at the same time. Under USB, for example, having 2 devices connected at the same time with the same VID/PID is problematic.

Does HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Enum\FLOP display anything unusual?

The BIOS of my Asus P5PE-VM (dual core) motherboard unfortunately permits only 1 floppy drive, while the BIOS of a quite similar motherboard P5P800-VM (not dual core) permits 2 floppy drives. I am missing the 2nd floppy drive, I wished I had your problem :)

BTW, did you check that the connectors of the floppy cable are inserted in the correct orientation (red markings on floppy ribbon cable are at PIN 1).

When problems looked really tricky to me, then very often the cause was defective hardware. Under DOS, can both floppy drives A: and B: full-format a floppy disk? Can you copy files from one floppy drive to the other?

Edited by Multibooter
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Take a look at this. There's a setting for "Drive 0 / Drive 1" (14 pins). The Original A-Drive should be on the End of the cable, and the Added B-Drive should be the next one down on a TWISTED cable (AFTER the Twist). Check that the jumpers MATCH between the Original A-Drive and the B-Drive (MAKE IT THE SAME AS A-DRIVE!) - This is USUALLY the method for "twisted" cable. If it still doesn't work (after that), try changing the SINGLE JUMPER (as noted in the PDF). IMPORTANT - ensure that the BIOS is set that BOTH are 3-1/2 1.44!

Please note that APPARENTLY the Drives can be set to (via the Jumpers) DIFFERENT FLOPPY SIZES!

Note - the PDF may be incorrect - see this (short topic).

Also, I've seen that the 300 is a 720kb vs the 340 being 1.44 (here). Is this true? (Apparently used with Commodore and Amiga.)

Hmmm... Only Dual Density Mode (Reference this GIF)?

Also found this

Does anyone used an Epson SMD340 drive? It appears to be a HD Amiga floppy.<snip>

here is a pic:

http://www.pitsch.de/stuff/amiga/tepe/epsonsmd300.jpg

Pic Translation
auf ds0 jumpern = Jumper on DS0

trennen = Separate

verbinden = Connect

Here is another reference stating bot 720 (DD) and 1.44 (HD) versions.

edit - as for the Cable "twist" - the "twist" is actually on the end. You have an "oddball" (i have or at least had several of those - TEAC and SONY). My bet is the 720-vs-1.44, the Cable, and/or the Jumpers. Also note that the cable may be plugged into the device upside-down (in which case you'll get a "solid light" usually).

Side note - Old 5-1/4 in ancient IBM's (5150's) didn't have the "twist" in the cable and you had to change the ID as DS0 or DS1.

Edited by submix8c
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edit - as for the Cable "twist" - the "twist" is actually on the end.

Yes :), problem being at WHICH end? :w00t::whistle:

This may help (this is how a floppy cable looks like and which end is which ;)):

buildit1.jpg

jaclaz

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Gotta ask, is the second drive enabled in the BIOS? I know some BIOS allow the second drive {and the 1st} to be disabled. If that were the case, because 98 goes through layers, it might not see a drive that DOS sees... At least I'd check that situation.

tom

Forgot to add, that some BIOS allow the drives to be swapped if desired. Lets complicate things just because we can!

t

Edited by tomw
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This may help (this is how a floppy cable looks like and which end is which ;)):

Thanks, jaclaz. This really is the style of diskette cable currently installed on the machine. The problem is somewhere else.

Still looking ...........

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Gotta ask, is the second drive enabled in the BIOS? I know some BIOS allow the second drive {and the 1st} to be disabled. If that were the case, because 98 goes through layers, it might not see a drive that DOS sees... At least I'd check that situation.

tom

Forgot to add, that some BIOS allow the drives to be swapped if desired. Lets complicate things just because we can!

Yes, the second drive is enabled in BIOS. Booting to DOS and copying files from A: -> B: or B: -> A: works fine.

I agree, Win98SE does NOT see what DOS sees, which is why I'm not able to see the B: drive in Windows Explorer, but I'm able to use both diskettes in DOS.

Yes, I've also seen the option in BIOS regarding swapping the diskette drives, and no, that option is not selected.

Because of some local scheduling problems I have not been able to swap out any of the diskette drives yet, although as I said above I have four more to try. I'll update this thread after I try those drives.

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Option 1. Try finding and re-installing the drivers for your SBC's chipset.

Option 2. May be risky, but delete the floppy and its controller in Device Manager and rescan for "new" hardware.

Side note - Old 5-1/4 in ancient IBM's (5150's) didn't have the "twist" in the cable and you had to change the ID as DS0 or DS1.

I don't think so. It was IBM that introduced the hair-brained (hare-brained?) "twisted floppy cable" scheme to the world. OTOH, I had a clone by a company called Eagle and that used a straight floppy disk cable, so it supported up to 4 floppy drives, yet the case could only fit two! BTW, I also used a 5150 at the time, and that definitely used a twisted floppy disk cable.

Joe.

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I don't think so. It was IBM that introduced the hair-brained (hare-brained?) "twisted floppy cable" scheme to the world. OTOH, I had a clone by a company called Eagle and that used a straight floppy disk cable, so it supported up to 4 floppy drives, yet the case could only fit two! BTW, I also used a 5150 at the time, and that definitely used a twisted floppy disk cable.

Hmmm.

I have one word for you ;), "Shugart":

http://pinouts.ru/Storage/InternalDisk_pinout.shtml

jaclaz

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BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!! I had an ORIGINAL (unmodified) 5150 - NO TWIST! Just like the HDD's (that had an "odd" cabling - EXTRA WIRES). Look up MFM and RLL (and look up the old Floppies) and get more info.

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BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!! I had an ORIGINAL (unmodified) 5150 - NO TWIST! Just like the HDD's (that had an "odd" cabling - EXTRA WIRES). Look up MFM and RLL (and look up the old Floppies) and get more info.

Interesting. My 5150 was '83 or '84 vintage, 4164 based, and came with a contorted (twisted) floppy cable configuration. To this I added a Tallgrass Technologies HD interface card and external HD (12MB, as I recall). Perhaps yours was the earlier 4116 based version of the 5150? AFAIK, there were at least two versions of the 5150 motherboard, and no doubt, different versions too of floppy disk controller card. So assuming we are both right, IBM must have transitioned from the standard Shugart cabling to their contorted version during the life of the 5150.

Interesting historical trivia, not sure how useful it is to the problem at hand. ;)

Joe.

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Post#16 - the "twist" I referred to.

More info on IBM 5150 Floppy cabling (ref. jaclaz' Shugart note).

4116 < 4164

I no longer own it - GAVE it away - 2-20mb HDD's, 2-5-1/4 Floppy , Sound, (etc etc). I assure you, I know what I'm talking about, including the 3-1/2 inch DSn Switch/Jumper "oddity" on older ones (works same way as IBM Floppies - I tried one of them on the 5150).

Useful to problem at hand? Neither is your information.

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More info on IBM 5150 Floppy cabling (ref. jaclaz' Shugart note).

4116 < 4164

I no longer own it - GAVE it away - 2-20mb HDD's, 2-5-1/4 Floppy , Sound, (etc etc). I assure you, I know what I'm talking about, including the 3-1/2 inch DSn Switch/Jumper "oddity" on older ones (works same way as IBM Floppies - I tried one of them on the 5150).

Thanks for that link to John Elloitt's page, lots of useful details there.

I notice it says ...

When IBM built their first PC, they didn't think the power supply was up to having all the drive motors running at once, so they designed a system with separate motor control for each drive. A twist in the cable between drives B and A means that each drive sees a different motor control signal.

... which is the first explanation I've seen about why IBM contorted the Shugart interface (OK, I haven't exactly been looking), and is perhaps plausible, as I recall the power supply in the 5150 was quite underpowered by today's standards, something like 63W (if I recall).

@Laser98IX : Have you tried either option suggested in my first posting (#18)?

Joe.

Edited by jds
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A resource for the good ol' times lovers ;):

http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/

Specifically:

http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/images3/floppy_crossover_cable_wiring.jpg

jaclaz

Wow!!! What a fantastic resource, thank you so much jaclaz! :yes:

Two thing I found noteworthy :

Firstly, the page http://www.minuszerodegrees.net/failure/failure%20-%203lt.htm suggests there are two possible polarities for three-legged tantalum capacitors. Unless some evidence indicates otherwise, I believe this is hypothetical and only the negative-positive-negative polarity actually exists.

Secondly, page 2-108 of the scanned IBM document "IBM_5150_Technical_Reference_6025005_AUG81.pdf" (yep, from 1981) shows the following signals on the floppy diskette interface (among others, of course) : Motor Enable A, Drive Select B, Drive Select A, Motor Enable B

Joe.

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