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Downgrade to Win7 ?


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#1
JorgeA

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Before long, retail PCs will be coming with Windows 8 preinstalled. This presents a problem for those of us who don't care for the Metro interface, but won't be ready to buy a new computer this fall before Win8 becomes the factory default.

Does anybody have hard information on whether in fact it will be possible to upgrade a store-bought Win8 system to Win7, via official channels? In light of the chance that that will not be possible, I'm considering purchasing a boxed copy of Windows 7 so that when -- eventually -- the time comes to get a new PC, I can wipe out the Win8 installation and put in Win7.

Any thoughts on this?

--JorgeA


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#2
Tripredacus

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Windows 8 will allow for Windows 7 Downgrade Rights when RTM hits, which will allow you (like previous times) to purchase a Win8 PC with Windows 7 installed.

I'm not sure what you mean by official way to downgrade after the fact... :unsure:
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#3
Fredledingue

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Downgrade rights suppose that you move to a precedent version of Windows "after the fact" that W8 was

installed when you bought the computer.
Not that you bought a computer with W7 preinstalled instead of W8.

One question with "downgrading" to the better W7 UI is the W8 core files.
W8 core files are much more efficient than those of W7 and of course, of Vista.
Usualy Windows OS loses in efficiency at each new release. This time is different: Core files are better because they have been rewritten to work on less powerful devices.

So the questions are:
- Will W8 core files be used on a W8 to W7 "downgrade" install or not?
- Will it be possible to install W8 core files (or upgraded files present in W8) with a normal install of W7 (or below)
And if yes, with official or unofficial chanels?
- Will W8 upgrades be applicable to W7?
- Isn't it better to install W8 and then apply an unofficial patch to fix the UI and eradicate Metro?

There are several strategies to be exploited. IMO Microsoft will either silently allow geeks to make the W8 usable on a desktop PC or they will release a Metro-free, Start Menu enabled version of their own.

Edited by Fredledingue, 20 July 2012 - 11:01 AM.

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#4
JorgeA

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Windows 8 will allow for Windows 7 Downgrade Rights when RTM hits, which will allow you (like previous times) to purchase a Win8 PC with Windows 7 installed.

I'm not sure what you mean by official way to downgrade after the fact... :unsure:

Thanks, Tripredacus.

What I had in mind is that the "downgrade" from Win8 to Win7 would take place after you take the PC home, in much the same way as today you can take an existing Vista machine and upgrade it to Win7, by going through an online procedure like the "anytime upgrade."

But it sounds like I would somehow have to make that choice while the PC is still in the store (let's say, at Staples)? :unsure: How does that work? Would I tell the Staples folks that I want Win7 instead of 8 on my new computer, and they'd take care of it somehow? What would they be doing that I couldn't do myself after taking the PC home? :huh: And would I be paying full freight for the Win7 license in lieu of Win8?

Just trying to understand the mechanics of the process, that's all. And also whether it's worth it to buy a Win7 license now (while I still can?? before Win8 goes retail).

--JorgeA

#5
JorgeA

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Fredledingue,

Thank you. Here are some thoughts --

Downgrade rights suppose that you move to a precedent version of Windows "after the fact" that W8 was

installed when you bought the computer.
Not that you bought a computer with W7 preinstalled instead of W8.

Yes. That's why I'm curious to learn if there is a process for switching to Win7 after buying a Win8 computer, that works like the process for switching to Win8 after buying a Win7 computer (only in the opposite direction). If there isn't such a way, then I'll think hard about buying a separate Win7 license now.

So the questions are:
- Will W8 core files be used on a W8 to W7 "downgrade" install or not?
- Will it be possible to install W8 core files (or upgraded files present in W8) with a normal install of W7 (or below)
And if yes, with official or unofficial chanels?

All very good questions, the answers to which I would love to know. :)

- Isn't it better to install W8 and then apply an unofficial patch to fix the UI and eradicate Metro?

There are several strategies to be exploited. IMO Microsoft will either silently allow geeks to make the W8 usable on a desktop PC or they will release a Metro-free, Start Menu enabled version of their own.

Well, if it's not possible to downgrade Win8 to Win7 except by buying a separate license, reformatting the drive, and installing Win7, then letting Win8 to install and applying a patch to eradicate Metro is a real option for me. If possible I'd prefer to avoid unofficial patches, but I can live with them if the situation comes to that.

And the best solution of all would be for MS to release a Metro-free, Start Menu enabled version of their own! :yes:

Edited by JorgeA, 20 July 2012 - 01:36 PM.


#6
jaclaz

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One question with "downgrading" to the better W7 UI is the W8 core files.
W8 core files are much more efficient than those of W7 and of course, of Vista.
Usualy Windows OS loses in efficiency at each new release. This time is different: Core files are better because they have been rewritten to work on less powerful devices.


Please allow me to put "comparative terms" into perspective.
  • let's say that in year 2000 I had *some* activity, let's say a line producing bowling balls :w00t: that had a cost of energy that (net of inflation, depreciation or whatever) can be ranked as 100%
  • let's also say the producer of the bowling balls machinery tricks me in updating the line in 2001 and that the new line after n months of lesser productivity finally gets to have a 105% cost of energy BUT that actualy produces 111% of bowling balls.
  • after n*m years I may become "even"with the lost production in the initial months, thank to the increased features of the new production line
  • let us also assume that in 2006, while I was away for (a long sought after after 5 years) six day vacation my partner in the bowling ball business is tricked by the same guy into updating to a new production line, that after n months of lesser productivity, continues to provide lesser productivity all year round AND has a cost of energy of 125%
  • let us then say that in 2009, with the firm on the verge of default, I am again tricked by the same guy into updating the machinery (yeah, I am gullible :unsure:) ,but this time from day one production increases and soon returns to 2005 levels with a cost for energy of 124%
  • now, three years have passed and the same guy tells me that a new update to the production line may produce the same but have a relevant saving in energy, for which not actual real estimation has been done, but that is presumed to be something like 105%. This is a dramatic decrease of the cost of energy, as 1-1.05/1.24=15.33%
  • but, what I actually am at is the SAME production level and SAME energy cost of years 2002÷2005, and a WORSE ratio cost of energy/production rate than I was in 2001

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jaclaz

#7
Tripredacus

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What I had in mind is that the "down"grade from Win8 to Win7 would take place after you take the PC home, in much the same way as today you can take an existing Vista machine and upgrade it to Win7, by going through an online procedure like the "anytime upgrade."


It won't work that way. If you buy a PC with Downgrade Rights, the OEM/Reseller is supposed to give you a Win7 system with Win8 COA and a copy of Win8 OEM version. If the PC has an OEM COA (doesn't have a product key on it) and Win7 installed, they may provide you with a Win8 Recovery DVD or maybe with both! But a lot of companies will work differently. I can only say which different ways I've seen it.

BALLS, BIG BALLS (of steel or other hardish materials):
http://www.msfn.org/.../138944-googel/

jaclaz


That link will be problematic for most users... since that thread is in the Dev testing forum... :whistle:
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#8
Fredledingue

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Jaclaz, even Vista and moreso W7 computers can be very efficient machines assuming that you tweak the OS, install efficient third party softwares and remove or disable all the garbage.
With W8 it can be made even more efficient thought tweaks only won't be enough. The OS must be hacked, not to gain effeciency but to get a normal UI.
With every version of Windows since XP we had to do something to get the full potential of the hardware and / or increase safety, reduce annoyances etc.

If you want to compare to W98 (or W9x if you prefer), W7 and Vista can be tweaked in a way that they will barely waste more resources than W98.
W8 may be as efficient or almost as efficient as W98. And that's why it may be interresting to use W8.

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#9
JorgeA

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If you buy a PC with Downgrade Rights, the OEM/Reseller is supposed to give you a Win7 system with Win8 COA and a copy of Win8 OEM version. If the PC has an OEM COA (doesn't have a product key on it) and Win7 installed, they may provide you with a Win8 Recovery DVD or maybe with both! But a lot of companies will work differently. I can only say which different ways I've seen it.

Thanks, Tripredacus.

So when the time comes, generally speaking I'll need to ask the vendor (1) if I can buy downgrade rights, and (2) to go ahead and install Windows 7 on the new PC. Right?

--JorgeA

P.S. Forum software complaint: That little list up there, I'd originally put in as lower-case "a" and lower-case "b" inside parentheses. But each time I hit Preview Post, it kept changing that "b" to a capital B and making it look like the emoticon for "cool." :blink:

#10
dencorso

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P.S. Forum software complaint: That little list up there, I'd originally put in as lower-case "a" and lower-case "b" inside parentheses. But each time I hit Preview Post, it kept changing that "b" to a capital B and making it look like the emoticon for "cool." :blink:

Yeah... that's a really old issue that remains with us... :wacko:
I've given up enumerating like a)... Now I always do I), II)... or i), ii)... or a. , b. ...
I'm sorry, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it to be fixed. :)

#11
JorgeA

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dencorso,

Thanks! It's not a big deal, just a tiny little annoyance. Like you, I'll work around it. :yes:

--JorgeA

#12
Tripredacus

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P.S. Forum software complaint: That little list up there, I'd originally put in as lower-case "a" and lower-case "b" inside parentheses. But each time I hit Preview Post, it kept changing that "b" to a capital B and making it look like the emoticon for "cool." :blink:


Its not a bug. Either format your list some other way, or uncheck the "Enable emoticons" box inside of the configure post options section.
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#13
jaclaz

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Jaclaz, even Vista and moreso W7 computers can be very efficient machines assuming that you tweak the OS, install efficient third party softwares and remove or disable all the garbage.

I am not saying anything much different from you, if you read my bowling balls machinery comparison attentively.

MagicAndre1981 permitting :unsure:, I would say that Vista :ph34r: (as delivered by MS) is far less efficient than 2K (still as delvered by MS), that windows 7 (still as delvered by MS) is more efficient than Vista :ph34r: and that hopefully Windows 8 (still as delvered by MS) may (possibly) be more efficient than Windows 7, only - and anyway - on a hardware with a zillion times faster CPU and n times the RAM, while occupying at least 10 times the hard disk space when compared to hardware used at the good ol' 2K times.

If I buy a production line for my bowling balls factory I want it to §@ç#ing produce bowling balls efficiently as soon as the seller delivers, assembles and tests/tunes/adjust it.

You are introducing a variation, you are using my chief engineer's 25+ years of experience on previous bowling balls production plants to introduce any number of betterings to the newly delivered plant, something that will cost me money and time (and lesser production for any number of months).
In such a case I would (provided that the seller promised me a more efficient plant than the one I bought from him a few years before):
  • not pay fully the seller (as a precaution)
  • have him pay the time and minor production of bowling balls (+ some damages), either through a settlement or sueing his firm

As a side note, unfortunately for you :w00t: and all the other Win9x fans/aficionados, the idea of comparing the (no offence whatsoever intended :) ) W9x/Me family of OS with the NT family never crossed my mind, not because it's not "good" in itself, but because it is too many years that it has been abandoned officially (in the sense that all the development took "the other" path) and was never IMHO an "as good" (for "production") OS when compared to the corresponding NT family OS (and no I dont' want to start the usual flame war between 9x and NT, FAT32 vs. NTFS, Vista :ph34r: vs. rest of the world, etc.)


@Trip
Sorry for the link, didn't noticed/remember iwas in the Dev area :blushing: .

jaclaz

#14
Fredledingue

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I'm still not sure what I will do: Use W7, or a hacked W8?

Now with the blurred font issue (what a bunch of idiots!) it makes me even less decided.

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#15
JorgeA

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I'm still not sure what I will do: Use W7, or a hacked W8?

Now with the blurred font issue (what a bunch of idiots!) it makes me even less decided.

+1

BTW, just to test the process for getting downgrade rights -- I'm thinking of going into a computer store to shop for a new Windows 7 PC, and then asking the salesman if I can get downgrade rights to Vista. :w00t:

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA, 24 July 2012 - 03:51 PM.


#16
CoffeeFiend

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I'm still not sure what I will do: Use W7, or a hacked W8?

I don't see a single good reason why I'd bother with a Win8 downgrade. The closest thing is faster reboots which would save me perhaps 10 seconds per month (assuming I'm sitting there, waiting for it to boot which is hardly ever the case)

They screwed up so many things pretty badly, and I'm not really seeing anything that even remotely makes up for it.The list seems to be all cons, no pros.
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#17
Tripredacus

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BTW, just to test the process for getting downgrade rights -- I'm thinking of going into a computer store to shop for a new Windows 7 PC, and then asking the salesman if I can get downgrade rights to Vista. :w00t:

--JorgeA


I'll bust your bubble... that program ended a while ago... But you might be able to get Vista from a reseller. ;)
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