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UDF + NTFS + EXFAT

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#1
PROBLEMCHYLD

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Is it possible to create a driver to support UDF + NTFS + EXFAT with read + write capabilities?
One driver does it all solution. Give me some coding books and tips.
I can learn if I'm taught. I'll give it a shot because I like to adventure.
I'm just so sick and tired of the limitations, hoping someone can do something about it.
I don't mind paying for software, but when you tell me, I have to have a certain operating system/hardware to run it, then I'll say f**k you.

Edited by PROBLEMCHYLD, 26 July 2012 - 04:24 PM.

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#2
TmEE

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NTFS is not exactly documented so that one is going to be tough.

Do you know C and/or x86 assembly ?


This is partially something I will go through one day when I begin implementing ofter file systems support for my OS, but it is for a completely different platform and everything gets written in 68K assembly so other that ideas nothing can move over to 9x+PC land...
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#3
PROBLEMCHYLD

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I don't know any coding, but just like everything else I have learned over the years, I'm sure I will get it with some time and ambition. :thumbup
Maybe some books/websites etc... can help me along the way. Thanks TmEE :w00t:

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#4
rloew

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NTFS is not exactly documented so that one is going to be tough.

Do you know C and/or x86 assembly ?


This is partially something I will go through one day when I begin implementing ofter file systems support for my OS, but it is for a completely different platform and everything gets written in 68K assembly so other that ideas nothing can move over to 9x+PC land...

I do 68K Assembly as well as C. I did a CDROM Driver for the Amiga Computer as well as extend their existing Filesystems.
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#5
jds

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I don't know any coding, but just like everything else I have learned over the years, I'm sure I will get it with some time and ambition. :thumbup
Maybe some books/websites etc... can help me along the way. Thanks TmEE :w00t:

Hey, I like your spirit! :)

Walter Oney's book and code examples, which I referred to in my 'wdmstub' thread is probably your best starting point.

Since UDF is already supported by MS drivers, and third-party NTFS solutions also exist (don't know myself how good they are), perhaps it would be easier/faster to just target EXFAT initially.

Joe.

#6
LoneCrusader

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As far as I know, (someone correct me if I am wrong, I am not very familiar with this subject) both of the "utilities" for using NTFS on Windows 98 use files from later versions of Windows to actually access the NTFS drives. This being the case, the only "unknown" is how to get them loaded and working. Anyone up to trying to figure it out? :lol:

#7
jaclaz

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As far as I know, (someone correct me if I am wrong, I am not very familiar with this subject) both of the "utilities" for using NTFS on Windows 98 use files from later versions of Windows to actually access the NTFS drives. This being the case, the only "unknown" is how to get them loaded and working. Anyone up to trying to figure it out? :lol:

Well, you asked for it, so yes, you are wrong! :whistle:

The two utiities are at least THREE.

The Winternals/Sysinternals one uses later OS system files:

How does NTFSDOS Professional work?
NTFSDOS Professional runs on MS-DOS and mounts NTFS drives so your MS-DOS applications can use them. It takes the files and drivers that compose NTFS from an existing Windows NT/2000/XP installation and simulates the environment they normally run in, allowing them to run inside of MS-DOS. This approach allows NTFSDOS Professional to access your NTFS volumes using the same Microsoft drivers that Windows NT/2000/XP uses, ensuring compatibility with your NTFS drives regardless of the version and Service Pack of NT you happen to use.

not entirely unlike the Linux "captive" drivers:
http://en.wikipedia....ki/Captive_NTFS

AFAIK the Paragon and the Datapol/Avira NTFS4DOS use their own drivers.


IMHO, writing from scratch filesystems drivers may be a non-trifling chore.
I presume that having something like FUSE or DOKAN:
http://code.google.com/p/dokan/
http://dokan-dev.net/en/
working on 9x/Me would be a "better" approach, in the sense that (I am told that) writing a filesystem driver on top of it is realtively simple.

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 31 July 2012 - 02:10 AM.


#8
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Well, you asked for it, so yes, you are wrong! :whistle:

The two utiities are at least THREE.

Interesting. I was unaware of the third Avira utility, although I may have heard of it and forgotten.

I was referring to Winternals "NTFS for Windows 98" rather than "NTFS4DOS" so I suppose technically there are four utilities.

The Winternals/Sysinternals one uses later OS system files:


This being the case, I would think it should be possible to achieve an equivalent level of functionality if one could just figure out how to get those files loaded and working properly... :unsure:

Thanks for the info, jaclaz. :thumbup

#9
jaclaz

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Interesting. I was unaware of the third Avira utility, although I may have heard of it and forgotten.

I was referring to Winternals "NTFS for Windows 98" rather than "NTFS4DOS" so I suppose technically there are four utilities.

Misunderstanding :ph34r:.
The Sysynternals/Winternals utility/tool is called "NTFSDOS" or "NTFSDOS Professional", as in:

NTFSDOS Professional
Copyright © 1999-2002 Winternals Software LP
www.winternals.com


Welcome to NTFSDOS Professional, the program that lets you access NTFS drives from MS-DOS as easily as you do your regular drives. NTFSDOS Professional mounts your NTFS volumes and gives them drive letters, so you can run applications and use files on NTFS volumes transparently. NTFSDOS Professional is small enough to run from a MS-DOS boot diskette so you can even access NTFS volumes on a system where Windows NT/2000/XP isn’t installed or able to boot. This makes it ideal for repairing corrupt files or configuration problems that prevent a Windows NT/2000/XP system from booting.

NTFSDOS Professional also comes with NTFSCHK, a tool for running the Windows NT/2000/XP CHKDSK program from within MS-DOS. NTFSCHK allows you to verify and repair the NTFS disk structure in case of accidental corruption.

How does NTFSDOS Professional work?
NTFSDOS Professional runs on MS-DOS and mounts NTFS drives so your MS-DOS applications can use them. It takes the files and drivers that compose NTFS from an existing Windows NT/2000/XP installation and simulates the environment they normally run in, allowing them to run inside of MS-DOS. This approach allows NTFSDOS Professional to access your NTFS volumes using the same Microsoft drivers that Windows NT/2000/XP uses, ensuring compatibility with your NTFS drives regardless of the version and Service Pack of NT you happen to use.


The Sysinternal/WInternal other one is/was called "NTFS for Windows 98" and came into a Free Read Only version that is still around and into a "Professional" version (Commercial).

As well as NTFSDOS, it uses the "captive" approach, i.e. uses "regular" NT/2K (cannot say if XP) files.

The Datapol/Avira Tool is called "NTFS4DOS" or "NTFS4DOS Personal":

Introduction
We have included all useful information on Avira NTFS4DOS Personal in the online help and you will be guided step by step through the installation, configuration and operation of the software.

On our website http://www.free-av.com you can download the PDF manual for Avira NTFS4DOS Personal or update your Avira NTFS4DOS Personal and read more about the security solutions from Avira GmbH.

Our website also contains information such as the telephone number for technical support and our newsletter, to which you can subscribe there.

Your Avira Team


The Paragon app/tool is called "NTFS for Win98":
http://www.paragon-s...8/download.html



There is also a NTFS reader by Diskinternals called "NTFS Reader for Windows 95, 98, Me"
http://www.diskinter...om/ntfs-reader/

And a NTFS reader from NTFS.COM called "NTFS Reader for DOS":
http://www.ntfs.com/products.htm

Fantasy in naming apps is usually not the most relevant capability programmers have.... :whistle:

jaclaz

#10
LoneCrusader

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Misunderstanding :ph34r:.
The Sysynternals/Winternals utility/tool is called "NTFSDOS" or "NTFSDOS Professional"

Ah, that's what I meant. :wacko:

As you said, not a lot in the way of naming variety though, heh.

The Sysinternal/WInternal other one is/was called "NTFS for Windows 98" and came into a Free Read Only version that is still around and into a "Professional" version (Commercial).

Given the fact that the "commercial" version is no longer available, and the current owners of it probably wish it had never existed and want it to disappear... :whistle:

I wonder how difficult it would be to achieve the same level of NTFS support... :unsure:

#11
jaclaz

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I wonder how difficult it would be to achieve the same level of NTFS support... :unsure:

Very, very, very difficult (speaking of NTFS).
The whole point of using a "captive" solution is that you need not to know (much) about the actual target filesystem (but you need to know very well how the "native" drivers/structure parser/etc. work) and all you have to do is to "interface" to a given set of (other OS) tools files, but you give a rather heavy "bundle" on the user, the need to have a license for the "other OS" (to be "kosher").
But the situation has changed in these years and the Linux driver is now also "native" (and open source).
Still, in a scale 0 to 10 of difficulty, writing a kernel driver should be between 8 and 9 :ph34r: .

jaclaz

#12
PROBLEMCHYLD

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I was referring to Winternals "NTFS for Windows 98"

For some reason, this crashes with my sata drive.
We need a better solution. Maybe this can be fix with some patching etc......

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#13
dencorso

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I was referring to Winternals "NTFS for Windows 98"

For some reason, this crashes with my sata drive.
We need a better solution. Maybe this can be fix with some patching etc......

Do please try the Paragon solution, which is apparently the simplest alternative, before going on to more complex solutions.

The Paragon app/tool is called "NTFS for Win98":
http://www.paragon-s...8/download.html



#14
PROBLEMCHYLD

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This being the case, the only "unknown" is how to get them loaded and working. Anyone up to trying to figure it out? :lol:

You have to configure the AUTOEXEC.BAT with the following commands. I'm sure every system will be different.
NTFSCHK v4.00
Copyright (C) 1999-2002 Winternals Software LP
www.winternals.com

NTFSCHK [drive:] [options]
  [drive:]   Specifies the drive to check (use '*' for all drives).
  /A         Check all drives (same as specifying drive as '*')
  /F         Fix errors found on the disk.
  /S         Show available NTFS drives without checking.
  /Q         Quick - Don't check unless volume is dirty.
  /V         Verbose - Show paths of files loaded.
  /@<file>   Path to initialization file containing locations of files.
  /*         Has NTFSCHK check all NTFS drives, or you can specify a specific drive letter (e.g. D:) to check.
  /?         Displays NTFSCHK usage.

Do please try the Paragon solution, which is apparently the simplest alternative, before going on to more complex solutions.

I will give it a shot. I read a lot of bad reviews about this version, so I avoided it :huh:

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#15
submix8c

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The BATCH command to include -
<8.3 path to>ntfschk.exe * /q /v /@<8.3 path to>ntfschk.ini
NTFSCHK.INI
Ntoskrnl   <8.3 path to>NTOSKRNL.EXE
Ntfs       <8.3 path to>NTFS.SYS
Autochk    <8.3 path to>AUTOCHK.EXE
ntdll      <8.3 path to>NTDLL.DLL
oemPage    <8.3 path to>C_437.NLS
ansiPage   <8.3 path to>C_1252.NLS
intlPage   <8.3 path to>L_INTL.NLS
I ran into a problem, however. It seems that "PSAPI.DLL" (a missing export from one of above) must be put in the SYSTEM32 folder. This should work with both the ReadOnly-version and the Pro version.

As I remember (?) I just made a separate CMD with a PIF, and put the PIF in the Main Menu (Start->Programs) "Startup" folder. It's been (apparently) 7 yrs since I used it.

I believe I tried with each of the Win2k, XP, and Server2k3 versions - DO NOT mix them - stick to one set (and SP-level)!

edit - unknown on SATA as I didn't have one at the time. One might assume it would be OK if set to IDE/PATA mode. Above Worked on both 98 and ME (I might have put something in the Registry at one time to "Run" NTFSCHK instead of "Startup" - can't remember).

Edited by submix8c, 03 August 2012 - 09:59 AM.

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#16
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Using the Winternals NTFS version, I was able to get my SATA working through a caddy which has an IDE interface.
Everything worked just like I wanted it to. The only time you get a BSOD is when you hook up a USB SATA drive.
I was able to copy from the NTFS drive without any problems. This is how I will be dual booting :w00t:
Other than that, I'm golden. I used the latest Windows 2000 files. Got some screenshots too :thumbup


Edit: added new information

Edited by PROBLEMCHYLD, 06 August 2012 - 11:58 AM.

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#17
PROBLEMCHYLD

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Again, painful to use. If you insist, they are mostly the same but I've had better luck with XPSP3/Server2k3SP2.

D@mn! You wasn't lying, it takes some work to get it up and running. I have tested all files except the Server files.
I chose to stick with Windows 2000 files because they are very stable.

As far as I know, (someone correct me if I am wrong, I am not very familiar with this subject) both of the "utilities" for using NTFS on Windows 98 use files from later versions of Windows to actually access the NTFS drives. This being the case, the only "unknown" is how to get them loaded and working. Anyone up to trying to figure it out? :lol:

This being the case, I would think it should be possible to achieve an equivalent level of functionality if one could just figure out how to get those files loaded and working properly... :unsure:

I have got them working. if you still interested, I will post instructions later. Off to test the Paragon version :huh:

Edited by PROBLEMCHYLD, 05 August 2012 - 07:32 PM.

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#18
LoneCrusader

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I chose to stick with Windows 2000 files because they are very stable.
...
I have got them working. if you still interested, I will post instructions later. Off to test the Paragon version :huh:

Good choice with Win2K files IMO. Windows 2000 is "closer" to Win98 than XP or later, while the earlier NT4 files may not properly recognize/support the later versions of NTFS.

Still interested. :yes:

#19
dencorso

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if you still interested, I will post instructions later.

Still interested. :yes:

I'm interested, too. Please, by all means do post detailed instructions... they may be of help for many. :yes:

#20
PROBLEMCHYLD

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Remember ladies and gentlemen, this is READ-ONLY :w00t:

1. Get these files from Windows 2000 Pro/Server source. The NLS files are the same regardless of the SP level.

AUTOCHK.EXE 5.0.2195.6881
C_437.NLS
C_1252.NLS
L_INTL.NLS
NTDLL.DLL 5.0.2195.7080
NTFS.SYS 5.0.2195.7050
NTOSKRNL.EXE 5.0.2195.7376

2. Copy all the files above to the root drive
C:\ or D:\ etc......
3. Install the Sysinternal/Winternal version 2.0. When asked for a directory create
C:\NTFS or D:\NTFS etc.......
4. After the files install, ignore the reboot.

5. Navigate to autoexec.bat and add the following lines
C:\NTFS\NTFSCHK.EXE /S /F /Q * or D:\NTFS\NTFSCHK.EXE /S /F /Q * etc.....
6. Locate the NTFSCHKA.BAT in the Windows directory and add /F right before the *

7. Reboot

Now you can view your NTFS drive, copy files from it and dual boot with it. You canNOT write files to the NTFS partition. Enjoy :thumbup

The advance options, I really don't understand them. I believe they are for the pro/write version. I could be wrong.

WARNING: Be careful using SATA drives unless you have a IDE adapter. Your system will crash.

Edited by PROBLEMCHYLD, 19 February 2013 - 01:54 PM.

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#21
LoneCrusader

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AUTOCHK.EXE 5.0.2195.6605
C_437.NLS
C_1252.NLS
L_INTL.NLS
NTDLL.DLL 5.0.2195.7080
NTFS.SYS 5.0.2195.7050
NTOSKRNL.EXE 5.0.2195.7376

I was just in the process of collecting those files in case I decide to experiment. I seem to have a later version of AUTOCHK.EXE, but earlier versions of all the others. :blink:

(I'm using my own Win2K Pro Slipstreamed CD with SP1+SP2+SP3+SP4+UR1.)

#22
PROBLEMCHYLD

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What version of AUTOCHK.EXE do you have?

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#23
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What version of AUTOCHK.EXE do you have?

5.0.2195.6881

Apparently comes from KB831375. I'm getting the HotFixes that contain the later versions of the other files now.

#24
PROBLEMCHYLD

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Thanks for the updated file. I'm going to bed. See you guys later today.

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#25
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Thanks for the updated file. I'm going to bed. See you guys later today.

No problem. :D

I need to be in bed myself, lol.




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