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(Partially SOLVED) How to install XP to one HDD, then clone it to anot

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#1
PROBLEMCHYLD

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Is there a way to clone/image hard drive so it can be move to another HD without installing any 3rd party software? Something like XCOPY :huh:

Edited by PROBLEMCHYLD, 10 August 2012 - 12:44 PM.

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#2
IcemanND

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Assuming a Windows machine I would use Robocopy not xcopy. And as long as the source drive has no files in use it should work fine. Most of your disk cloning software will do this also when booted from external media.

#3
PROBLEMCHYLD

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Thanks

Here what I'm doing. I want to install WinXP on and 40gb IDE hard drive.
After fully updated with patches and software, I want to move it to a sata hard drive (caddy) with a IDE interface.
I hate to install software and only have to use it once. I will do this procedure with a couple of SATA drives, so
all I have to do is change the HD thats in the caddy.

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#4
jaclaz

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Thanks

Here what I'm doing. I want to install WinXP on and 40gb IDE hard drive.
After fully updated with patches and software, I want to move it to a sata hard drive (caddy) with a IDE interface.
I hate to install software and only have to use it once. I will do this procedure with a couple of SATA drives, so
all I have to do is change the HD thats in the caddy.

Please define "install".
Many of the solutions provided are about boot-CD's or bootable USB sticks or floppy.
You NEVER, and I mean NEVER image a disk/volume that is in use (unless you use Shadow Copy services).

jaclaz

#5
PROBLEMCHYLD

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I want to install WinXP on the C drive from a CD. Once it has been updated,
I will remove the CD rom caddy and add a SATA HD caddy with an IDE interface. I want to copy/clone/image whatever etc.......
from the C drive to the D drive. I doNOT want to install any 3rd party apps to accomplish this. Thanks

Edited by PROBLEMCHYLD, 07 August 2012 - 01:13 PM.

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#6
jaclaz

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I want to install WinXP on the C drive from a CD. Once it has been updated,
I will remove the CD rom caddy and add a SATA HD caddy with an IDE interface. I want to copy/clone/image whatever etc.......
from the C drive to the D drive. I doNOT want to install any 3rd party apps to accomplish this. Thanks

Well, you CANNOT :no: (within the limits of the self - limitations you imposed yourself).

You need to boot the machine to ANOTHER OS (that contains the needed tools), this can also be a "dual boot" with a "hidden, recovery like" partition on the main hard disk.

So, in any case you NEED a "third party tool", whether this needs to be "installed" or not, is another thing.

Please spend some time reading here:
http://homepage.ntlw...red-banana.html
as right now you are slipping on a chocolate covered banana :ph34r: .

jaclaz

#7
Ponch

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You need to boot the machine to ANOTHER OS (that contains the needed tools)

I think this sticks to his request of not installing any software (supposedly "on his C: drive that he's going to clone, before cloning").

#8
dencorso

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I have three questions, please bear with me :
I) What's the size of the SATA HDD you intend to move the XP installation to?
II) Do you intend to install XP on a machine having as internal HDDs the 40 GB IDE drive alone, or there'll be other internal HDDs present?
III) I understand you'll be using a CD\DVD drive in a caddy with a SATA to IDE converter, so the caddy will be connected to one of the internal IDE ports... So, to which port will it be connected, and will it be alone as Secondary Master or as Primary Slave, together with the 40GB HDD (which in this case would be the Primary Master)?

#9
cdob

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Is there a way to clone/image hard drive so it can be move to another HD without installing any 3rd party software?

Use NTBackup. Backup data to a temp file and restore data.

http://www.microsoft...s.mspx?mfr=true
http://support.micro...kb/302894/en-us
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTBackup

#10
PROBLEMCHYLD

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I think this sticks to his request of not installing any software (supposedly "on his C: drive that he's going to clone, before cloning").

Exactly :yes:

I) What's the size of the SATA HDD you intend to move the XP installation to?

120 GB

II) Do you intend to install XP on a machine having as internal HDDs the 40 GB IDE drive alone, or there'll be other internal HDDs present?

There will be two drives, on the 40gb Win98 and on the 120gb WinXP.

III) I understand you'll be using a CD\DVD drive in a caddy with a SATA to IDE converter, so the caddy will be connected to one of the internal IDE ports... So, to which port will it be connected, and will it be alone as Secondary Master or as Primary Slave, together with the 40GB HDD (which in this case would be the Primary Master)?

No, I have to remove the CD rom caddy in order to run the SATA caddy with XP on the partition.
Win98 will be the Primary/Master, WinXP will be the Secondary/Slave.
I would like to install WinXP first on the SATA and then Win98.
The only way to do that is, to install it on the 40gb from the CD and then clone/image/ghost etc.... to the 120gb.

Edited by PROBLEMCHYLD, 08 August 2012 - 08:01 AM.

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#11
submix8c

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Does this help?

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#12
PROBLEMCHYLD

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Does this help?

No, thanks anyway. Is it possible to use something like a command line tool. I just don't want to install any software.

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#13
jaclaz

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Does this help?

No, thanks anyway. Is it possible to use something like a command line tool. I just don't want to install any software.

Since you have no CD, would you have either among:
  • a floppy
  • a USB stick/hd
  • PXE booting
Otherwise you will need to "install" (actually there is NO NEED to "install" but you will have to accept that a third party tool exists :w00t: on your hard disk or OS volume) a boot manager like grub4dos (and from it load *any* other third party tool in the form of either a floppy disk image, a CD image or a (small) hard disk image).

Most probably the easiest tool would be partition saving:
http://www.partition-saving.com/

jaclaz

#14
PROBLEMCHYLD

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Since you have no CD, would you have either among:

  • a floppy
  • a USB stick/hd
  • PXE booting
Otherwise you will need to "install" (actually there is NO NEED to "install" but you will have to accept that a third party tool exists :w00t: on your hard disk or OS volume) a boot manager like grub4dos (and from it load *any* other third party tool in the form of either a floppy disk image, a CD image or a (small) hard disk image).

Most probably the easiest tool would be partition saving:
http://www.partition-saving.com/

jaclaz

I do have some USB flash drives. 8gb and 16gb. No floppy drive. I don't know what PXE booting is. The laptop does not boot USB flash drives if it helps.

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#15
submix8c

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Hmmm... you can't clone a "running" XP. No way. HIVES are actively being accessed. The rationale behind the removing the Registry Entries is the fact that XP stores the HDD info in it and it will (probably) not boot to the cloned drive because it still (in those REG entries) "sees" the Original HDD as the Device on which it's installed. XXCOPY weighs in at approx. 550kb.

jaclaz might suggest Plop Booting maybe?

Since you have ONE attachable CD, maybe you could (RAM permitting) load a LiveXP from it into RAM which would allow for disconnect-CD/reconnect-HDD for the "clone" operation. Been doing this for about a year now (using a HDD "image", a not-really-SDI-image BOOT.SDI), both USB and CD. This is how I "beat" a laptop having the same situation as you (no CD, no Floppy, but DID boot from USB).

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#16
PROBLEMCHYLD

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Hmmm... you can't clone a "running" XP. No way. HIVES are actively being accessed. The rationale behind the removing the Registry Entries is the fact that XP stores the HDD info in it and it will (probably) not boot to the cloned drive because it still (in those REG entries) "sees" the Original HDD as the Device on which it's installed. XXCOPY weighs in at approx. 550kb.

jaclaz might suggest Plop Booting maybe?

Since you have ONE attachable CD, maybe you could (RAM permitting) load a LiveXP from it into RAM which would allow for disconnect-CD/reconnect-HDD for the "clone" operation. Been doing this for about a year now (using a HDD "image", a not-really-SDI-image BOOT.SDI), both USB and CD. This is how I "beat" a laptop having the same situation as you (no CD, no Floppy, but DID boot from USB).

I wouldn't mind using Robocopy or XXcopy since I can just delete the file.

Edited by PROBLEMCHYLD, 08 August 2012 - 10:09 AM.

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#17
submix8c

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Nonetheless, under the constraints you've given (only one XP installed on C-drive and no other CD than attachable and no floppy or bootable USB) you're kind of stuck. You'll STILL need some method of copying a NON-RUNNING XP to the External. Hence the link I gave (see "H.- HOW TO CREATE A SECOND WINDOWS XP BY COPYING THE EXISTING ONE").

If you had a dual-boot (e.g. a second XP installed and running with independent PageFiles) it would be possible to clone the first install to the External. Hence the suggestion of a Winbuilder/LiveXP In-RAM.

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#18
PROBLEMCHYLD

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I'm pretty much screwed then, unless I use a 3rd party app. Looks like I'm screwed. Thanks guys. :} ;)

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#19
submix8c

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??? Are you referring to WinBuilder? It's not an "installable" item. Unpack, use it, test the result, when satisfied, delete it.

Your alternative is to create a SECOND XP, boot to it, and copy the FIRST one, as specified. After booting to Extenal, one can RECLONE it back after redefining the partition(s) on the original. MBRFIX is a simple program and included in the WinBuilder Stable releases.

You're only "screwed" because you want to clone a RUNNING XP. No biggie, just a little extra effort to boot to "something/anything else". Not sure if a LiveLinux would do any good (don't use them, but...).

edit - for second XP you could maybe repartition using Gparted Live. :ph34r:

Edited by submix8c, 08 August 2012 - 10:43 AM.

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#20
PROBLEMCHYLD

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I think I may have a better way. I have a StarTech USB to SATA and IDE adapter.
If I install WinXP on the IDE drive and remove it from the laptop, then connect it to another laptop along with the 120gb SATA drive using my StarTech USB to SATA and IDE adapter. Can it be done this way? Please list instructions if possible.

Edited by PROBLEMCHYLD, 08 August 2012 - 11:09 AM.

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#21
jaclaz

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Ok, I am losing my patience. :w00t:

All you have to do is to add a single line to your BOOT.INI and add to the root of the volume where NTLDR and BOOT.INI are three files:
  • grldr <- between 220 and 270 Kb depending on versions
  • menu.lst <- optional, normally no more than 512 bytes
  • an image <- this can be as little as a floppy image (1440 Kb) or as big as a few hundreds of Mb (a .iso CD image), depending on the tool you choose

NOTHING is "installed", you can add the line in BOOT.INI by hand or use a small batch to do that and re-add it (if needed) manually or by using another batch.
The line amounts to:

C:\grldr="grub4dos"


If even this is not acceptable along your (IMNSHO senseless) restrictions, then yes, you are stuck :ph34r: .

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 08 August 2012 - 12:52 PM.


#22
PROBLEMCHYLD

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Ok, I am losing my patience. :w00t:

All you have to do is to add a single line to your BOOT.INI and add to the root of the volume where NTLDR and BOOT.INI are three files:

  • grldr <- between 220 and 270 Kb depending on versions
  • menu.lst <- optional, normally no more than 512 bytes
  • an image <- this can be as little as a floppy image (1440 Kb) or as big as a few hundreds of Mb (a .iso CD image), depending on the tool you choose

NOTHING is "installed", you can add the line in BOOT.INI by hand or use a small batch to do that and re-add it (if needed) manually or by using another batch.
The line amounts to:

C:\grldr="grub4dos"


If even this is not acceptable along your (IMNSHO senseless) restrictions, then yes, you are stuck :ph34r: .

jaclaz

Please wait to lose (ALL) of your patience only after I get the solution :w00t: .
You did lose me for a second. I don't understand how editing BOOT.INI will help me copy the drive. I'm sorry but I just don't understand. If you want, I will fight with you later :wub:

Edited by PROBLEMCHYLD, 08 August 2012 - 02:16 PM.

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#23
cdob

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you can't clone a "running" XP. No way.

NTBackup supports Volume Shadow Copy, registry is saved too.
Third party tool DriveimagXML uses Volume Shadow Copy too.

@PROBLEMCHYLD
Not tested:
Install Win98 to internal 40gb drive. Boot from internal disk
Save partition c: boot code to a file
Use winnt32 or winnt to transfer installtion files from CD to internal hard disk. http://technet.micro...ibrary/Cc940492 http://technet.micro...ibrary/cc940493
Configure migrate.inf, if you like to adjust XP drive letters.
Swap CD drive to second hard disk.
Boot from first internal hard disk, XP installation is processed. And install XP to second hard disk.

#24
jaclaz

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I don't understand how editing BOOT.INI will help me copy the drive. I'm sorry but I just don't understand.

That's good, as it is UNrelated to "copying the drive".
Loading from BOOT.INI grub4dos is a way to load it without installing anything.
Once you are in grub4dos you can load *any* image, i.e. you can have another OS, INCLUDING a suitable imaging tool, that you can use to clone/image the disk, and this without "installing".
As said this could be DOS based (very small in size), or Linux based (a little larger) or a PE of some kind, it all depends on which tool you find more practical/like.
If you prefer the added line to the boot.ini and the grldr file are nothing but some means to give you an almost unlimited freedom of choice among the many "third party" tools available without the need to "install" any of them.



jaclaz

#25
dencorso

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@PROBLEMCHYLD: I think jaclaz just managed to devise a reliable method to do what you originally asked, as in:
Install XP -> add grub4dos and cloninig program without installing -> use grub4dos to load clonining program -> clone XP and free the IDE HDD for 9x installation. I bet it'll work beautifully! :yes:
I just want to add that you might as weel divide the 120GB SATA drive into a primary 40 - 60 GB partition to receive the XP image and a 80 - 60 GB logical partition for data. 40 - 60 GB is plenty space to run XP SP3 with IE8 and Firefox (or Pale Moon, preferably). I do run XP from a 40 GB primary partition.




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