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(Partially SOLVED) How to install XP to one HDD, then clone it to anot

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#26
PROBLEMCHYLD

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@PROBLEMCHYLD: I think jaclaz just managed to devise a reliable method to do what you originally asked, as in:
Install XP -> add grub4dos and cloninig program without installing -> use grub4dos to load clonining program -> clone XP and free the IDE HDD for 9x installation. I bet it'll work beautifully! :yes:
I just want to add that you might as weel divide the 120GB SATA drive into a primary 40 - 60 GB partition to receive the XP image and a 80 - 60 GB logical partition for data. 40 - 60 GB is plenty space to run XP SP3 with IE8 and Firefox (or Pale Moon, preferably). I do run XP from a 40 GB primary partition.

Sorry but I'm still lost. I havent got the Guru title yet, so please guide me step by step. Thanks to all you guys :thumbup

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#27
dencorso

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jaclaz was clearly thinking ahead, but he's trying to set up and test step two, because step one should just work:
Install XP -> add grub4dos and cloninig program without installing -> other steps
Step two has actually two parts: add grub4dos and test it's working, then add cloninig program and test it's working.
I've color coded things to highlight their connections.

#28
PROBLEMCHYLD

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Can you specify cloning program? Sorry :}

Edited by PROBLEMCHYLD, 08 August 2012 - 08:44 PM.

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#29
dencorso

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I think jaclaz has this one in mind:

Most probably the easiest tool would be partition saving:
http://www.partition-saving.com/

It would be my first choice, too. However, since jaclaz figured it out, let's wait for his instructions.

PS: A reliable cloning program is a friend for life: once you start using it, you will keep doing it always, because it's the most reliable way of backing up and a great help debugging installations.

#30
Ponch

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EDIT: I wrote all this having only read down to the 1st page of the thread... I now see there was a 2nd page. ... :blushing: I might read everything and come back if still applies. :D

Anyway you look at it, you need to be able to boot and clone from something else than your XP. Here was a relatively simple way.
Download any tool that boots from CD and can resize partitions on your 40Gig (GPartEd comes to mind indeed). Now downsize any partition on your 40Gig so that you can create an additional partition that can contain all you want to image (data size), you should be ok with less than 2.5 gig if XP out of the box (and Win98?) are the only things on your main partition.
Now booting from cd, clone your XP to an image (a single file) on that new partition. Then you can do the rest the same way; copy the image (from the running XP) to an additional partition on the 120gig then apply image to the desired partition. To perform that last point though, you will have to run the imaging program from your XP, but some (Ghost32 for instance) do not need to be installed and just run from any place, and it won't modify your image that is already created..
After all is done you can clean the unneeded partitions. Gparted is a great free tool but it is a bit slow.
You can also use that external USB to Sata adapter but I've had problems cloning "internal to external". Maybe it was bad luck.

Edited by Ponch, 09 August 2012 - 12:16 AM.


#31
jaclaz

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I think jaclaz has this one in mind:

Most probably the easiest tool would be partition saving:
http://www.partition-saving.com/

It would be my first choice, too. However, since jaclaz figured it out, let's wait for his instructions.

jaclaz has not that "in mind" he plainly stated that it is probably the "easiest" one among the several ones linsted on the thread where PROBLEMCHYLD originally posted:
http://www.msfn.org/...aging-software/
For THREE reasons:
  • it has a DOS based version and PROBLEMCHYLD is familiar with it
  • it fits in a single floppy disk (image) so it is among the most footprint saving
  • it is already documented in detail

Additionally jaclaz has not particular instructions to give, IF PROBLEMCHYLD thinks to give it a shot, jaclaz will gladly explain how, once in grub4dos, the floppy image can be loaded, to be more exact, he will be able to provide the set of grub4dos commands needed to mount the floppy disk image and attempt booting from it.
But in the mentioned thread there are tens of suitable programs listed, and everyone will have it's "tastes" and possibly less restrictions than those that were stated here.

BTW, and just for the record, it should be possible to directly clone the disk by using grub4dos internal dd command, though I suspect that it will be slowish.

jaclaz

#32
PROBLEMCHYLD

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I have added grub4dos to the sata drive alone with a iso of WinXP. Whats the next step?

P.S
I don't like to partition my drives :no: . This is why I have extra drives with caddies :yes:

Edited by PROBLEMCHYLD, 09 August 2012 - 07:23 AM.

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#33
jaclaz

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I have added grub4dos to the sata drive alone with a iso of WinXP. Whats the next step?

The grldr needs to be on the Boot drive (normally "C:\"), along with NTLDR and BOOT.INI.
Get the bootable floppy image of the thingy (or make one yourself with MS-DOS instead of Freedos).
http://damien.guibou...n/spartbdk.html
http://damien.guibou...chargement.html
Assuming that you are trying the original image, put the file spartbdk.img wherever you like on your disk, let's say in C:\partsave\
Boot and at BOOT.INI choices choose grub4dos.
At the grub> prompt type:

map -- mem /partsave/spartbdk.img (fd0)
map -- hook
root (fd0)
chainloader +1
boot

(issuing [ENTER] at each line).

If everything boots OK, create a new file in notepad, save it as C:\menu.lst.
Contents of the file:

title Partition Saving Floppy
map -- mem /partsave/spartbdk.img (fd0)
map -- hook
root (fd0)
chainloader +1


so that next time you don't need to type commands at the grub4dos prompt.

jaclaz

#34
PROBLEMCHYLD

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Here's what I did

Installed WinXP on the C drive. Added VCDControlTool.EXE + VCDROM.SYS. Loaded the WinXP iso.
Removed the CD rom drive. Added the SATA caddy. Installed WinXP to the D drive. I'm happy. Thanks guys :thumbup
It was easier than I thought and I didn't have to use a 3rd party app.

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#35
jaclaz

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Here's what I did

Installed WinXP on the C drive. Added VCDControlTool.EXE + VCDROM.SYS. Loaded the WinXP iso.
Removed the CD rom drive. Added the SATA caddy. Installed WinXP to the D drive. I'm happy. Thanks guys :thumbup
It was easier than I thought and I didn't have to use a 3rd party app.

Well, but what you actually did was that you installed XP TWICE, which is another thing, nothing connected to "image" or "clone" and not even to "backup".

And, unless you ARE Microsoft, I would consider VCDControlTool.EXE + VCDROM.SYS "Third Party Apps" (unless I am mistaken they are not "inside" the XP install CD :unsure:) as well, and ANYHOW they need to be "installed".

Anyway, glad you solved your problem :).

jaclaz

#36
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I guess my solution wasn't ideal. I just bricked a 120GB HD. Way to go HUH :realmad:
I think the drive is pretty much dead. I put it in another computer, downloaded tools, chkdsk etc.......
I even use jaclaz MBRFIX.CMD with WIZAPP.EXE. I got NOTHING!!!!!!!
WinXP won't install at all. I have another 120GB HD, but I wouldn't dare do the same procedure I have just done. Looks like
I'm going to have to install Win98 first.

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#37
dencorso

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Take a deep breath, PROBLEMCHYLD, wait till you've calmed down, then consider this: there's simply *no way* to brick an HDD, just by installing any OS in it, let alone Win XP, which is very stable and well-behaved! :no:
Either that HDD was about to fail anyway, so it's a simple example of Murphy's Law in action, or the SATA => IDE bridge you used is not a good one. After you've calmed down, connect that disk directly to a SATA port and wipe it with HDDErase. If the HDD does not respond, even when connected to a true SATA port, please report whether it does so silently, or if you do hear any noises from it, so that we may decide whether it's definitely bricked or not, OK? Thanks in advance.

#38
Ponch

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I even use jaclaz MBRFIX.CMD with WIZAPP.EXE. I got NOTHING!!!!!!!

Problem description is not complying with the standards on this board. :D
1st thing first; is it still recognized by Bios -in your other PC and/or in that one, through the IDE enclosure? If yes can you see any sign of it being there in Windows (Disk Management for instance)?

#39
PROBLEMCHYLD

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Yes the HD is still recognized in the BIOS. The caddy still works because i have tried the other 120GB in it.
If I try to format the HD it just hangs 57% and then crash when I'm tryin to install WinXP. Caddy or NO caddy, same results. HDDErase won't let me wipe. It justs hangs.

Edited by PROBLEMCHYLD, 13 August 2012 - 09:14 AM.

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#40
dencorso

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Yes the HD is still recognized in the BIOS. The caddy still works because i have tried the other 120GB in it.
If I try to format the HD it just hangs 57% and then crash when I'm tryin to install WinXP. Caddy or NO caddy, same results. HDDErase won't let me wipe. It justs hangs.

The items I highlighted in red on the above quotation indicate, to me at least, that the HDD is bricked. I'd guess the arm is not being able to move beyond 57%. Those things are difficult/expensive to repair so it's not worth it. However, and I know this is no great solace, the HDD failed because it was about to fail anyway, and nothing you've done caused it. As soon as you had put it to use, it would have failed shortly thereafter. Count yourself lucky you didn't loose any valuable/irreplaceable data with its failure.

#41
PROBLEMCHYLD

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Thanks guys. I like your little script jaclaz. MBRFIX.CMD is great. Thank you too dencorso. Off to fixed the bugs in SP 3.4.
Be back over here in a couple of days. :yes:

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#42
jaclaz

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The items I highlighted in red on the above quotation indicate, to me at least, that the HDD is bricked. I'd guess the arm is not being able to move beyond 57%. Those things are difficult/expensive to repair so it's not worth it. However, and I know this is no great solace, the HDD failed because it was about to fail anyway, and nothing you've done caused it. As soon as you had put it to use, it would have failed shortly thereafter. Count yourself lucky you didn't loose any valuable/irreplaceable data with its failure.

NO. :no:
"Bricked" is a highly specialized technical term :w00t: ;)( meaning that the device CANNOT BE ACCESSED at all.
If it is accessible (and up to 57%) it is not "bricked" and not necessarily has an issue with the arm not being able to move beyond 57%, it could well be a (smaller or bigger) bunch of bad sectors.
This said, yes :yes: , *somehow* the actual device has failed, or is failing and it is not worth (being no valuable data on it) to lose any time to understand what is going on, if not for "fun".
It is much easier and safer to get another one.
In any case if the "fun" choice is made, first thing is to run the hard disk manufacturer tests on it.

Thanks guys. I like your little script jaclaz. MBRFIX.CMD is great. Thank you too dencorso. Off to fixed the bugs in SP 3.4.
Be back over here in a couple of days. :yes:

Happy you like it :) , though it is specifically or no or little use, it is simply a poor man's kind of FDISK (and nothing more).

jaclaz

#43
Ponch

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The laptop does not boot USB flash drives if it helps.

This is the line that got your laptop described as "craptop" in the other thread. Computers usually do boot from UFD since many many years. Your main problem being that you could not have external boot ("from cd only") and target drive at the same time as they were using a same enclosure, booting USB was the obvious solution.
Where do you get your info that it doesn't boot from USB ?

#44
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Without installing third party tools. And I had a valid suggestion for that. :yes:

Which was actually the SAME one I had proposed LONG BEFORE you did, i.e. booting to "something else" :whistle:

Don't be so competitive, at the end it will just keep people from replying to any question. :angel
Not same solution. You were solving "no external boot while target drive present" when I was solving "no target present while external boot".
You would have created a 2nd partition for an alternative OS to boot from, I would have created one for temporary local image storage (more time involved, more space needed, less elegant, less practical for a possible "next time" only advantage was; less knowledge required IMHO).

#45
jaclaz

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Don't be so competitive, at the end it will just keep people from replying to any question. :angel

Not at all competitive :).
Momentarily irritated by your pickyness on the unrelated thread, yes :yes:
And the idea was not at all to somehow "intimidate" you and/or prevent you from replying to a question, your post to which I replied was NOT an answer to any question, or at least not an answer to any question asked on that thread, the idea was to highlight the off-topicness of your remark.

Not same solution. You were solving "no external boot while target drive present" when I was solving "no target present while external boot".
You would have created a 2nd partition for an alternative OS to boot from, I would have created one for temporary local image storage (more time involved, more space needed, less elegant, less practical for a possible "next time" only advantage was; less knowledge required IMHO).

We both provided a possible solution - of course as different variations - but on a SAME theme, that is/was "booting something else".

But - just for the record - no, I would not have needed to create a 2nd partition on the "source" (actually currently booting drive) as I suggested to use grub4dos to boot from a floppy image saved on the same (already existing) partition.
On the contrary, one would have needed a partition (even temporary) on the "target" drive, to store the image.
The idea was to make the less "intrusion" in the source drive, while having the "target" drive (which is/was larger in size) "free" to be formatted/partitioned as one would like.

Still in the idea of an "as accurate as possible" image, since the "source" drive is/was 40 Gb and the target drive is/was 120 GB, I would have (in my perverted mind) used the first 40 Gb of the "target" as "space available" to restore the image and the "rest" as space to hold the image to be later restored to the first 40 Gb.

The only changes on the source disk would have been:
  • a single line added to BOOT.INI <- which can be added (and later removed) by using NOTEPAD or any text editor
  • a single file a few hundreds of Kb added to the root of the drive (grldr) <- which can later be deleted allright
  • optionally a second very small plain text file added to root of the drive (menu.lst) <- which can be later be deleted allright
  • a single file 1.474.560 bytes (or less if .gz compressed) anywhere on the drive (the floppy image) <- which can be later be deleted allright

Your idea is good as well :thumbup (and I don't see in it all the defects that you are now listing :)) but IMHO it represents NOT an answer to the question, since you modify the source disk (by reducing the size of the current partition and add a new partition to store temporarily the image) the image contents that will be deployed to the new disk will be not the image of the disk"as is", but of the disk as "it will be" after your mods...

Since PROBLEMCHYLD didn't use EITHER of the proposed solution (which I repeat are both "valid" and "working") but used his own way (which is as said yet another non answer to his original question but the answer to another question) I would call the result of the game between us a draw ;) or even better a null :w00t:.

BTW, and just to be as picky as I traditionally am, had JorgeA asked originally the actual question he had in mind, that is/was:

Is it possible, by using Black-Armour (a re-branded Acronis Trueimage) create a procedure capable of perforiming a bare-metal recovery in case of a system hard disk crash?

He would have got a simple "Yes" answer:
http://homepage.ntlw...no-answers.html
and there would have been a lot less key presses, and bytes sent over the internet, and misunderstandings (for these latter ones, please accept my apologies should I have somehow hurt your feelings).

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 16 August 2012 - 05:08 PM.


#46
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Momentarily irritated by your pickyness on the unrelated thread, yes :yes:

Who's the bully now ? :D I wasn't picky, it was clearly related. I think the word "installing" was the relevant difference between my suggestion and what had been offered before.

Your idea is good as well :thumbup (and I don't see in it all the defects that you are now listing :)) but IMHO it represents NOT an answer to the question, since you modify the source disk (by reducing the size of the current partition and add a new partition to store temporarily the image) the image contents that will be deployed to the new disk will be not the image of the disk"as is", but of the disk as "it will be" after your mods...

Well, obviously (you just pretend not to see this, I know ;) ), in my case, the image would have been one of a partition, not of a disk (remember the OP only intends to "move XP" from one disk to an other). As such my image is 100% untouched (as you just write, only the size is reduced but we know it's a detail) while you list all 4 "temporary" changes your method would have (permanently) brought to the image.
I really stop here. I mean it. :angel

#47
jaclaz

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Well, obviously (you just pretend not to see this, I know ;) ), in my case, the image would have been one of a partition, not of a disk (remember the OP only intends to "move XP" from one disk to an other). As such my image is 100% untouched (as you just write, only the size is reduced but we know it's a detail) while you list all 4 "temporary" changes your method would have (permanently) brought to the image.

Well, no.
If it was a "mere" partition copy, it would never have booted from the new disk, you would need anyway to copy (or fix) the MBR and the disk signature - or the connected Registry entries).
So, even if it would not be a "whole disk" copy, it would be anyway a "whole disk copy minus the second temporary partition" :yes: .


jaclaz




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