[jaclaz]

Ok, I am losing my patience.

All you have to do is to add a single line to your BOOT.INI and add to the root of the volume where NTLDR and BOOT.INI are three files:

• grldr <- between 220 and 270 Kb depending on versions
  
• menu.lst <- optional, normally no more than 512 bytes
  
• an image <- this can be as little as a floppy image (1440 Kb) or as big as a few hundreds of Mb (a .iso CD image), depending on the tool you choose

NOTHING is "installed", you can add the line in BOOT.INI by hand or use a small batch to do that and re-add it (if needed) manually or by using another batch.
The line amounts to:

Quote

C:\grldr="grub4dos"

If even this is not acceptable along your (IMNSHO senseless) restrictions, then yes, you are stuck .

jaclaz

This post has been edited by jaclaz: 08 August 2012 - 12:52 PM

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

jaclaz, on 08 August 2012 - 12:51 PM, said:

Ok, I am losing my patience.

All you have to do is to add a single line to your BOOT.INI and add to the root of the volume where NTLDR and BOOT.INI are three files:

• grldr <- between 220 and 270 Kb depending on versions
  
• menu.lst <- optional, normally no more than 512 bytes
  
• an image <- this can be as little as a floppy image (1440 Kb) or as big as a few hundreds of Mb (a .iso CD image), depending on the tool you choose

NOTHING is "installed", you can add the line in BOOT.INI by hand or use a small batch to do that and re-add it (if needed) manually or by using another batch.
The line amounts to:

Quote

C:\grldr="grub4dos"

If even this is not acceptable along your (IMNSHO senseless) restrictions, then yes, you are stuck .

jaclaz

Please wait to lose (ALL) of your patience only after I get the solution .
You did lose me for a second. I don't understand how editing BOOT.INI will help me copy the drive. I'm sorry but I just don't understand. If you want, I will fight with you later

This post has been edited by PROBLEMCHYLD: 08 August 2012 - 02:16 PM

[cdob]

submix8c, on 08 August 2012 - 10:01 AM, said:

you can't clone a "running" XP. No way.

NTBackup supports Volume Shadow Copy, registry is saved too.
Third party tool DriveimagXML uses Volume Shadow Copy too.

@PROBLEMCHYLD
Not tested:
Install Win98 to internal 40gb drive. Boot from internal disk
Save partition c: boot code to a file
Use winnt32 or winnt to transfer installtion files from CD to internal hard disk. http://technet.micro...ibrary/Cc940492 http://technet.micro...ibrary/cc940493
Configure migrate.inf, if you like to adjust XP drive letters.
Swap CD drive to second hard disk.
Boot from first internal hard disk, XP installation is processed. And install XP to second hard disk.

[jaclaz]

PROBLEMCHYLD, on 08 August 2012 - 02:15 PM, said:

I don't understand how editing BOOT.INI will help me copy the drive. I'm sorry but I just don't understand.

That's good, as it is UNrelated to "copying the drive".
Loading from BOOT.INI grub4dos is a way to load it without installing anything.
Once you are in grub4dos you can load *any* image, i.e. you can have another OS, INCLUDING a suitable imaging tool, that you can use to clone/image the disk, and this without "installing".
As said this could be DOS based (very small in size), or Linux based (a little larger) or a PE of some kind, it all depends on which tool you find more practical/like.
If you prefer the added line to the boot.ini and the grldr file are nothing but some means to give you an almost unlimited freedom of choice among the many "third party" tools available without the need to "install" any of them.



jaclaz

[dencorso]

@PROBLEMCHYLD: I think jaclaz just managed to devise a reliable method to do what you originally asked, as in:
Install XP -> add grub4dos and cloninig program without installing -> use grub4dos to load clonining program -> clone XP and free the IDE HDD for 9x installation. I bet it'll work beautifully!
I just want to add that you might as weel divide the 120GB SATA drive into a primary 40 - 60 GB partition to receive the XP image and a 80 - 60 GB logical partition for data. 40 - 60 GB is plenty space to run XP SP3 with IE8 and Firefox (or Pale Moon, preferably). I do run XP from a 40 GB primary partition.

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

dencorso, on 08 August 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

@PROBLEMCHYLD: I think jaclaz just managed to devise a reliable method to do what you originally asked, as in:
Install XP -> add grub4dos and cloninig program without installing -> use grub4dos to load clonining program -> clone XP and free the IDE HDD for 9x installation. I bet it'll work beautifully!
I just want to add that you might as weel divide the 120GB SATA drive into a primary 40 - 60 GB partition to receive the XP image and a 80 - 60 GB logical partition for data. 40 - 60 GB is plenty space to run XP SP3 with IE8 and Firefox (or Pale Moon, preferably). I do run XP from a 40 GB primary partition.

Sorry but I'm still lost. I havent got the Guru title yet, so please guide me step by step. Thanks to all you guys

[dencorso]

jaclaz was clearly thinking ahead, but he's trying to set up and test step two, because step one should just work:
Install XP -> add grub4dos and cloninig program without installing -> other steps
Step two has actually two parts: add grub4dos and test it's working, then add cloninig program and test it's working.
I've color coded things to highlight their connections.

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

Can you specify cloning program? Sorry

This post has been edited by PROBLEMCHYLD: 08 August 2012 - 08:44 PM

[dencorso]

I think jaclaz has this one in mind:

jaclaz, on 08 August 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

Most probably the easiest tool would be partition saving:
http://www.partition-saving.com/

It would be my first choice, too. However, since jaclaz figured it out, let's wait for his instructions.

PS: A reliable cloning program is a friend for life: once you start using it, you will keep doing it always, because it's the most reliable way of backing up and a great help debugging installations.

[Ponch]

EDIT: I wrote all this having only read down to the 1st page of the thread... I now see there was a 2nd page. ... I might read everything and come back if still applies.

Anyway you look at it, you need to be able to boot and clone from something else than your XP. Here was a relatively simple way.
Download any tool that boots from CD and can resize partitions on your 40Gig (GPartEd comes to mind indeed). Now downsize any partition on your 40Gig so that you can create an additional partition that can contain all you want to image (data size), you should be ok with less than 2.5 gig if XP out of the box (and Win98?) are the only things on your main partition.
Now booting from cd, clone your XP to an image (a single file) on that new partition. Then you can do the rest the same way; copy the image (from the running XP) to an additional partition on the 120gig then apply image to the desired partition. To perform that last point though, you will have to run the imaging program from your XP, but some (Ghost32 for instance) do not need to be installed and just run from any place, and it won't modify your image that is already created..
After all is done you can clean the unneeded partitions. Gparted is a great free tool but it is a bit slow.
You can also use that external USB to Sata adapter but I've had problems cloning "internal to external". Maybe it was bad luck.

This post has been edited by Ponch: 09 August 2012 - 12:16 AM

[jaclaz]

dencorso, on 08 August 2012 - 10:51 PM, said:

I think jaclaz has this one in mind:

jaclaz, on 08 August 2012 - 09:06 AM, said:

Most probably the easiest tool would be partition saving:
http://www.partition-saving.com/

It would be my first choice, too. However, since jaclaz figured it out, let's wait for his instructions.

jaclaz has not that "in mind" he plainly stated that it is probably the "easiest" one among the several ones linsted on the thread where PROBLEMCHYLD originally posted:
http://www.msfn.org/...aging-software/
For THREE reasons:

• it has a DOS based version and PROBLEMCHYLD is familiar with it
  
• it fits in a single floppy disk (image) so it is among the most footprint saving
  
• it is already documented in detail

Additionally jaclaz has not particular instructions to give, IF PROBLEMCHYLD thinks to give it a shot, jaclaz will gladly explain how, once in grub4dos, the floppy image can be loaded, to be more exact, he will be able to provide the set of grub4dos commands needed to mount the floppy disk image and attempt booting from it.
But in the mentioned thread there are tens of suitable programs listed, and everyone will have it's "tastes" and possibly less restrictions than those that were stated here.

BTW, and just for the record, it should be possible to directly clone the disk by using grub4dos internal dd command, though I suspect that it will be slowish.

jaclaz

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

I have added grub4dos to the sata drive alone with a iso of WinXP. Whats the next step?

P.S
I don't like to partition my drives . This is why I have extra drives with caddies

This post has been edited by PROBLEMCHYLD: 09 August 2012 - 07:23 AM

[jaclaz]

PROBLEMCHYLD, on 09 August 2012 - 07:18 AM, said:

I have added grub4dos to the sata drive alone with a iso of WinXP. Whats the next step?

The grldr needs to be on the Boot drive (normally "C:\"), along with NTLDR and BOOT.INI.
Get the bootable floppy image of the thingy (or make one yourself with MS-DOS instead of Freedos).
http://damien.guibou...n/spartbdk.html
http://damien.guibou...chargement.html
Assuming that you are trying the original image, put the file spartbdk.img wherever you like on your disk, let's say in C:\partsave\
Boot and at BOOT.INI choices choose grub4dos.
At the grub> prompt type:

Quote

map -- mem /partsave/spartbdk.img (fd0)
map -- hook
root (fd0)
chainloader +1
boot

(issuing [ENTER] at each line).

If everything boots OK, create a new file in notepad, save it as C:\menu.lst.
Contents of the file:

Quote

title Partition Saving Floppy
map -- mem /partsave/spartbdk.img (fd0)
map -- hook
root (fd0)
chainloader +1

so that next time you don't need to type commands at the grub4dos prompt.

jaclaz

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

Here's what I did

Installed WinXP on the C drive. Added VCDControlTool.EXE + VCDROM.SYS. Loaded the WinXP iso.
Removed the CD rom drive. Added the SATA caddy. Installed WinXP to the D drive. I'm happy. Thanks guys
It was easier than I thought and I didn't have to use a 3rd party app.

[jaclaz]

PROBLEMCHYLD, on 10 August 2012 - 10:44 AM, said:

Here's what I did

Installed WinXP on the C drive. Added VCDControlTool.EXE + VCDROM.SYS. Loaded the WinXP iso.
Removed the CD rom drive. Added the SATA caddy. Installed WinXP to the D drive. I'm happy. Thanks guys
It was easier than I thought and I didn't have to use a 3rd party app.

Well, but what you actually did was that you installed XP TWICE, which is another thing, nothing connected to "image" or "clone" and not even to "backup".

And, unless you ARE Microsoft, I would consider VCDControlTool.EXE + VCDROM.SYS "Third Party Apps" (unless I am mistaken they are not "inside" the XP install CD ) as well, and ANYHOW they need to be "installed".

Anyway, glad you solved your problem .

jaclaz

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

I guess my solution wasn't ideal. I just bricked a 120GB HD. Way to go HUH
I think the drive is pretty much dead. I put it in another computer, downloaded tools, chkdsk etc.......
I even use jaclaz MBRFIX.CMD with WIZAPP.EXE. I got NOTHING!!!!!!!
WinXP won't install at all. I have another 120GB HD, but I wouldn't dare do the same procedure I have just done. Looks like
I'm going to have to install Win98 first.

[dencorso]

Take a deep breath, PROBLEMCHYLD, wait till you've calmed down, then consider this: there's simply *no way* to brick an HDD, just by installing any OS in it, let alone Win XP, which is very stable and well-behaved!
Either that HDD was about to fail anyway, so it's a simple example of Murphy's Law in action, or the SATA => IDE bridge you used is not a good one. After you've calmed down, connect that disk directly to a SATA port and wipe it with HDDErase. If the HDD does not respond, even when connected to a true SATA port, please report whether it does so silently, or if you do hear any noises from it, so that we may decide whether it's definitely bricked or not, OK? Thanks in advance.

[Ponch]

PROBLEMCHYLD, on 11 August 2012 - 09:43 AM, said:

I even use jaclaz MBRFIX.CMD with WIZAPP.EXE. I got NOTHING!!!!!!!

Problem description is not complying with the standards on this board.
1st thing first; is it still recognized by Bios -in your other PC and/or in that one, through the IDE enclosure? If yes can you see any sign of it being there in Windows (Disk Management for instance)?

[PROBLEMCHYLD]

Yes the HD is still recognized in the BIOS. The caddy still works because i have tried the other 120GB in it.
If I try to format the HD it just hangs 57% and then crash when I'm tryin to install WinXP. Caddy or NO caddy, same results. HDDErase won't let me wipe. It justs hangs.

This post has been edited by PROBLEMCHYLD: 13 August 2012 - 09:14 AM

[dencorso]

PROBLEMCHYLD, on 13 August 2012 - 09:12 AM, said:

Yes the HD is still recognized in the BIOS. The caddy still works because i have tried the other 120GB in it.
If I try to format the HD it just hangs 57% and then crash when I'm tryin to install WinXP. Caddy or NO caddy, same results. HDDErase won't let me wipe. It justs hangs.

The items I highlighted in red on the above quotation indicate, to me at least, that the HDD is bricked. I'd guess the arm is not being able to move beyond 57%. Those things are difficult/expensive to repair so it's not worth it. However, and I know this is no great solace, the HDD failed because it was about to fail anyway, and nothing you've done caused it. As soon as you had put it to use, it would have failed shortly thereafter. Count yourself lucky you didn't loose any valuable/irreplaceable data with its failure.