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Menu Selector for DOS based programs on same CD?

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#1
Dogway

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Hello

I wanted to ask out of curiosity if there was any way for creating a menu selector for DOS based programs. Like say, I burn Seatools, and Memtest on a CD, and when boot from CD, I can choose which one to choose. Is there a way for this?

Thank you!


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#2
jaclaz

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Hello

I wanted to ask out of curiosity if there was any way for creating a menu selector for DOS based programs. Like say, I burn Seatools, and Memtest on a CD, and when boot from CD, I can choose which one to choose. Is there a way for this?

Thank you!

Sure, you need a bootmanager like grub4dos or syslinux (actually isolinux).
Normally such dos tools are written to CD as "floppy images" that the bootmanager loads like if they were floppies.
If you get the UBCD:
http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/
you have a fair example of hhow such a CD works.

jaclaz

#3
Dogway

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ohhh! wonderful! I will have a deep read later on. Thanks a bunch

#4
Ponch

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say, I burn Seatools, and Memtest on a CD, and when boot from CD, I can choose which one to choose.

Technically there is a problem with your view as (if) they are both provided as bootable cd images (ISOs), you can't get both on 1 cd. I mean you can't have two cd images applied to one cd.
My friend Jaclaz directs you to a way of copying both iso files directly to your cd and add a menu to boot either of them image files.
Other way (without needing a boot manager :angel ) is the old DOS (since DOS6?) menu available through config.sys/autoexec.bat. But the result won't be as easy to use (you'd have to extract the iso's and would be strictly limited to DOS programs).

#5
jaclaz

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Technically there is a problem with your view as (if) they are both provided as bootable cd images (ISOs), you can't get both on 1 cd. I mean you can't have two cd images applied to one cd.


Technically (specifically for the two mentioned tools) it doesn't make a difference if using a floppy image or a cd image, and even more technically :whistle: BOTH the mentioned thingies are available as floppy, by means of ways to create one or by extracting the floppy image from the .iso.
Specifically:
SeaToolsDOS220EURO.144.ISO <-contains a "normal" 1.44 El-Torito floppy image
SeaToolsDOS223ALL.ISO <-contains a no emulation bootsector (actually using BCDW) and a "special" floppy image 5,898,240 bytes in size i.e. a 4x1.44 image or 5760kB still compatible with both grub4dos and syslinux/isolinux/memdisk.

http://www.memtest.org/

-= Download (Pre-built & ISOs) =-

Here is some pre-compiled distributions of memtest86+. Memtest86+ comes in three different way, first is a pre-build bootable ISO, second is a bootable binary and third an installable package for creating a bootable floppy. Third version are compressed in .zip and .tar.gz.

** Memtest86+ V4.20 (25/01/2011) **
Download - Pre-Compiled Bootable ISO (.gz)
Download - Pre-Compiled Bootable ISO (.zip)


Download - Pre-Compiled Bootable Binary (.gz)
Download - Pre-Compiled Bootable Binary (.zip)

Download - Auto-installer for USB Key (Win 9x/2k/xp/7) *NEW!*
Download - Pre-Compiled EXE file for USB Key (Pure DOS) *OBSOLETE*

Download - Pre-Compiled package for Floppy (DOS - Win)

echo ##############################################################
echo # #
echo # Memtest86+ V4.20 Installation #
echo # This installation creates a bootable floppy disk. #
echo # #
echo # Memtest is a standalone memory test and must be booted #
echo # from a floppy disk. Memtest cannot be executed under #
echo # DOS or Windows. #
echo # NOTE:You will not be able to read from the floppy after #
echo # the test is installed. This is normal. #
echo # #
echo ##############################################################

But again the memtest86+-4.20.iso.zip simply contains an El-Torito floppy image 1.44 Mb (and El Torito floppy emulation images can be easily extracted from .iso with 7-zip among other tools).

My friend Jaclaz directs you to a way of copying both iso files directly to your cd and add a menu to boot either of them image files.

Not really. :no:

Personally it makes little sense to make a CD with a software to emulate another CD (the .iso) that actually emulates a floppy, and I would go "directly" to a CD that emulates a floppy....(actually two)

Other way (without needing a boot manager :angel ) is the old DOS (since DOS6?) menu available through config.sys/autoexec.bat. But the result won't be as easy to use (you'd have to extract the iso's and would be strictly limited to DOS programs).

Again NOT really. :no:
The Seatools run under FreeDOS and may (or may not) work under DOS but you can have a DOS menu in FreeDOs allright :yes: , but Memtest not only doesn't run under an OS, but it also uses NOT a "known" filesystem on the floppy (or floppy image) from which it is booted.

jaclaz

#6
Ponch

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Other way (without needing a boot manager :angel ) is the old DOS (since DOS6?) menu available through config.sys/autoexec.bat. But the result won't be as easy to use (you'd have to extract the iso's and would be strictly limited to DOS programs).

Again NOT really. :no:
The Seatools run under FreeDOS and may (or may not) work under DOS but you can have a DOS menu in FreeDOs allright :yes: , but Memtest not only doesn't run under an OS, but it also uses NOT a "known" filesystem on the floppy (or floppy image) from which it is booted.

jaclaz

Really.
That's exactly what I say. The title says "for DOS baded programs". So simply booting DOS then choosing the program should be an option. But if one of those two "DOS programs" is not a "DOS program", that won't do. :)

#7
Dogway

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mmmm Im a bit overwhelmed with so much information.

Somewhat I managed to pack in the updated driver packs. (At last I'll be using UBCD4Win which is much more than I what asking so thanks a lot).
Now I want to update a few of the "Plugins", not many, namely memtest and seatools, but I don't know how to proceed in this case.
Normally you just hit Plugins, and then Config for autoupdate, but not for these. My first reaction was to manually substitute the files:
manual.html
memtest.exe
memtest.inf
memtest_nu2menu.xml

But no memtest download seems to hold any direct .exe or nothing.

EDIT: Ok, actually the correct path was "plugin\Multiboot-003\Memtest86+" I actually replaced memtestp.img with (Pre-Compiled Bootable ISO (.zip)'s) memtest.img, and renamed. But cannot find the seatools folder no where. I am doing all this by intuition, not sure if it's correct or will work.

Edited by Dogway, 23 August 2012 - 01:28 AM.


#8
allen2

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This memtest.exe isn't the same memtest (memtest86 which is an os in itself and then need to be booted or chain booted) that Jaclaz was speaking about.
The most reliable one is memtest86.
As for me, I would use isolinux/memdisk to make the multiboot CD you're looking to create.
Edit:
Also if you don't want to bother creating the bootCD yourself, you could try using Ultimate boot CD: http://www.ultimateb....com/index.html

Edited by allen2, 23 August 2012 - 01:35 AM.


#9
Dogway

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Yes, I realised and explained in the edit, well, now that I'm practically done with this I just want to substitute seatools and wrap up, so much confusion is getting me very nervious lol

edit: not specially interested prolly at this point but isn't Ultimate boot CD for linux?

Edited by Dogway, 23 August 2012 - 01:40 AM.


#10
jaclaz

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@Dogway
Well, I am usually grumpy :angry: , but sometimes I feel like it is well justified. :yes:

You asked a question, I gave a proper answer to THAT question, pointing you to the UBCD as an example to try, and you first go astray with UBCD4WIN (which is ANOTHER thing VERY DIFFERENT from UBCD and totally UNrelated to your original question) and then you ask if UBCD (which is what has been suggested for you to try FIRST) is "for linux" ? :w00t:

Sometimes I feel like the Chewbacca Defense:
http://en.wikipedia....ewbacca_defense
was originally inspired by forum threads like this ....

Anyway happy you got the whatever you were looking for (and didn't ask about) :).

@Ponch
Sure :), just nitpicking a little (and yes, besides being grumpy I am also picky :yes: (and cheap :ph34r: , but that's another story).

@allen2
Being picky, I find the link you posted to be strangely similar to the one that was already suggested in post #2.
(as in "already suggested" and "already ignored")

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz, 23 August 2012 - 02:04 AM.


#11
Dogway

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jaclaz, sorry this isn't something I know about, or to examine about, all I was asking was a bit of help/guidance. It all began wondering if I could just have seatools and memtest in one CD, and then it ended up with UBCD4WIN, which is something else (not different I'd say)

edit: you started talking about syslinux and isolinux... and then on the link you proposed to me it clearly says "For those of you interested in a Windows version of the Ultimate Boot CD...", after all this it isn't so rare that the first impression I got was you offering me linux solutions. Yes, despite my profile shows XP Pro x86, but who knows... I never talked about any OS. I'm a noob and admit it, I was asking for having 2 boot applications in one CD, now that you explained to me, why not have plenty?
At this stage, I'm just looking for a way to add the Seatools to UBCD4WIN, build the ISO and test.

Edited by Dogway, 23 August 2012 - 02:15 AM.


#12
jaclaz

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jaclaz, sorry this isn't something I know about, or to examine about, all I was asking was a bit of help/guidance. It all began wondering if I could just have seatools and memtest in one CD, and then it ended up with UBCD4WIN, which is something else (not different I'd say)

Oh, yes, they are very different.
Try making a boot CD of both, then compare them.

Specifically, UBCD is (mainly) DOS based and has most (if not all) Manufacturer's Hard disk diagnostic tools (which is part of what you asked for initially), whilst UBCD4WIN is (mainly) BartPE based, has NOT ANY Manufacturer Hard disk diagnostic tools.

The former is "self-contained" the latter needs an original Windows XP (or server 2003) installation media (and an appropriate license).

Also, measure the time one and the other takes to boot....

Carpenter's comparison (if needed) ;):

Q: I need a tool to plant nails into planks of wood, what do you suggest?
A: A hammer is advised, it should have a weight between 300 and 400 grams and a relatively long handle, several models are available.
Q: Okay, in the hardware shop I went to get a hammer I saw an electric hammer and I got that instead.
A: That's good, but an electric hammer is a very different tool from a hammer.
Q: They are not different.
A: Oh yes they are.


At this stage, I'm just looking for a way to add the Seatools to UBCD4WIN, build the ISO and test.

Waiter come taste this soup:
http://www.imdb.com/...es?qt=qt1099763

UBCD ALREADY has Seatools (for DOS) included which is what you asked for.
UBCD4WIN has NOT Seatools (for DOS or for windows) included; adding them to it may be easy or difficult, but is anyway additional work that - since you are a self-declared n00b - raises the necessity for you to quickly become and ex-n00b ;) in order to be able to perform this task.

For the record, I talked about a (CD compatible) bootmanager:

Sure, you need a bootmanager like grub4dos or syslinux (actually isolinux).

giving two common examples, both capable (as stated) to load floppy images (DOS, Linux or other OS) and an already built tool (still as an example) that makes use of this approach (CD compatible bootmanager and severla floppy images) that coincidentally also already contains, ready for use both Memtest and Seatools.

Ultimately I am very happy :) that:
  • you found what you wanted
  • you have chosen to experiment and become a non-n00b :thumbup

Life is "trying things to see if they work"


but still my pickyness :w00t: makes me clarify how:
  • you initially asked a question
  • that question was properly replied to
  • you substantially ignored the given answer and found yourself another answer to another question (which you never asked)


jaclaz

#13
Dogway

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"Oh, yes, they are very different."


They looked very similar to me, you start on a DOS menu, where you can see a few related things (memtest for example), its just that UBCD4Win has en extra entry that takes you to a windows looking environment where you can run EVEN more diagnostic (and not so diagnostic) tools. UBCD3Win does what Ultimate Boot CD does and MUCH more.

About the rest, helping with such an amount of cynicism isn't even necessary, yes I'm a noob at DOS, programming and such, but I'm a master at CG or Video Filtering and yet I don't need to talk down the way you do.

You just have a different perception of what's going on, I haven't been rude as you are in any moment.

3. you substantially ignored the given answer and found yourself another answer to another question (which you never asked)


Mind you that if I ignored your answer I would have never known about UBCD4WIN. That all hints lead to make me think that there was too much linux on my head is not my fault, I function by common sense, calling "whatever linux" tools for non linux environment isn't exactly something I would call common sense.

"UBCD4WIN has NOT Seatools (for DOS or for windows) included; adding them to it may be easy or difficult, but is anyway additional work that - since you are a self-declared n00b - raises the necessity for you to quickly become and ex-n00b ;) in order to be able to perform this task."


Long way to say you don't know how, without saying it.


-you found what you wanted

What I wanted yesterday, before your first post, not today. Greedy? nah, human nature...

-you have chosen to experiment and become a non-n00b
"Life is "trying things to see if they work""


Certainly there are things I just want to get working and wrap because I'm not interested enough to learn all the ins and outs. Call it batch coding, autohotkey coding, html, javascript, css and the likes, etc (you see I like trying many things). I had to learn some by myself, but when got stuck I had to ask, could I get along without asking? Sure, but it would take me 10 more times to get to the same place for something I'm not really fond of. If you ever stuck at Photoshop, Maya, or Avisynth for a given task, don't worry, you can ask to me. That's what forums are for, asking-sharing, not complaining on people questions.

#14
jaclaz

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Long way to say you don't know how, without saying it.

Naah, actually very indirect way to say that YOU will not be able to do that very easily, while actually saying it :whistle: .

But this is not intended to put you down in any way :no: , since I have a few years of experience with all the mentioned tools (and also a few years of supporting people on various boards on similar topics), I think I know quite well the difficulties that you may face, and I find only fair to you to tell you my opinion, expecially since I previously suggested what I still think was an easier path to get the result you asked initially.

You shouldn't take my approach as rude (it is not meant to :)) it is simply a matter of (declared BTW) grumpyness and pickyness, but still with the end goal of actually trying to help you solve your problems :yes: .


jaclaz

#15
Dogway

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: \
it certainly puts me down a little. I will do a few more dozen searchs and reads tomorrow and see what I get. UBCD4Win has many useful things that might come handy (like restoring HDD data, on NTFS, etc), there comes my switch of interest from the initial question.
Thanks nevertheless

#16
submix8c

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jaclaz - submix8c

Two peas in separate and unique pods. Don't be so offended. It's unintended... Grin at the grumpy and carry on. ;)

Someday the tyrants will be unthroned... Jason "Jay" Chasteen; RIP, bro!

Posted Image


#17
jaclaz

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jaclaz - submix8c

Two peas in separate and unique pods.


Heck :w00t: , I thought we were going together like peas and carrots ...:
http://www.imdb.com/...es?qt=qt0373739

;)

jaclaz

#18
submix8c

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Thufferin' Thuckotash! :w00t:

Someday the tyrants will be unthroned... Jason "Jay" Chasteen; RIP, bro!

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#19
jaclaz

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Thufferin' Thuckotash! :w00t:


dissuflously:
Spoiler


;)

jaclaz

#20
Ponch

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Grin at the grumpy and carry on.

And so reply after reply. But who's going to have the last word this time ?
Spoiler


#21
Dogway

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Well, I will ignore your offtopic chitchat and continue with my research journey since no one seems to want to help.

I found this link. Basically I need to know what type of menu is UBCD4Win running, and then edit the file to point to (a special or not version of) seatools.

My guess is that I need to edit some kind of bcdw file, I will search to one containing the menu items.


edit: this is getting better. link. The file was indeed custom_bcdw.ini

Edited by Dogway, 24 August 2012 - 12:47 AM.


#22
jaclaz

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.... since no one seems to want to help.

Well, this is not fair. :no:

In case of need you may consult the BCDW homepage:
http://bootcd.narod.ru/index_e.htm
BCDW is a project abandoned since a few years and the above page is not updated anyway to latest release (which is 2.01, whilst the page is still at 1.50z).
There used to be a mirror with latest version here:
http://www.wolfgang-...ownloads_e.html
but it has been removed, so you can get it, thanks to paraglider:
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=19412
from here:
www.paraglidernc.com/temp/bcdw201a.rar
or here:
http://www.msfn.org/...on/page__st__39

More generally, now that you are focused on UBC4WIN it is more likely that you find people familiar with it on the UBCD4WIN forum:
http://ubcd4win.com/...dex.php?act=idx
or, since UBCD4WIN is BartPE based, on the official Bart's PEbuilder Support Forum, here:
http://www.911cd.net...dex.php?act=idx

jaclaz

#23
Dogway

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Yeah, well, unless I'm going to ask too much about something I try to refrain myself from registering on too many sites. Anyways I successfully managed to implement seatools in the boot menu, tested over VirtualBox.

Now, as you can imagine I'm struggling at the next thing, implementing DLGDiag.exe into the boot menu, the Western Digital Diagnostic Tools for DOS. I guess I need to obtain the .img or .ima file, and that's when I stumbled over another thread of yours:
http://reboot.pro/12255/page__st__50

A bit hard to understand, what I did was to follow this guide: http://www.ultimateb...topic.php?p=579

I made a virtual floppy drive, placed DLGDiagv519.exe in it, and then used winimage to create an image of the floppy. Then just proceeded as I did with seatools. But it didn't work, when I run DLGDiag on the boot menu, it freezes.

#24
cdob

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Yeah, well, unless I'm going to ask too much about something I try to refrain myself from registering on too many sites. Anyways I successfully managed to implement seatools in the boot menu, tested over VirtualBox.

Did you create a plugin to add SeaTools?

Now, as you can imagine I'm struggling at the next thing, implementing DLGDiag.exe into the boot menu, the Western Digital Diagnostic Tools for DOS. I guess I need to obtain the .img or .ima file

WD Diag504fCD.iso contains a floppy image. Extract this and add similar to seatools.
http://support.wdc.c...&sid=30&lang=en

#25
Dogway

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I don't know if I created the plugin. I just followed one of the linked tutorials. Extracted seatools.ima and added to the z_custom folder. Then added the line to custom_bcdw.ini, and enabled z_custom plugin in the plugins section.

There's no floppy image in WD Diag504fCD.iso, these are the contained files:
DLGDIAG.txt
DLGDIAG5.EXE
DLGLICE.TXT
IBMBIO.COM
IBMDOS.COM




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