Dogway

Menu Selector for DOS based programs on same CD?

55 posts in this topic

Everything is solved you don't need to come back to show how right you were, after all I managed to do it by reading other posts (it wasn't THAT complex as you said and made it look) and lastly cdob's help, and well a waste of 2 days.

So thanks a lot for being around while having the answers although ultimately decided to look at how funny is to joke and make fun of someone struggling for an answer during 2 days.

(and El Torito floppy emulation images can be easily extracted from .iso with 7-zip among other tools).

among other what kind of tool? because I use a very similar and extended one (Winrar) and you know, it happens to don't find that right away. Why not use 7-zip? Why yes? I wonder...

7-zip list it at [bOOT] directory.

ups, yes sorry, I didn't understand that line. :blushing:

...and overlooked this one :whistle: :

It's not my fault if after 2 days I'm a bit dull and couldn't read "7-zip lists it at [bOOT] directory", it could have made a change. No pun to cdob whom I'm grateful for.

Edited by Dogway
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(heh..) WinRar (even the latest) only opens the CD and doesn't reveal the ElTorito boot image. Hence the suggestion of 7-Zip. If you'd have just used it as suggested, you'd have seen it. BTW, "Universal Extractor" uses 7-zip as well (look in the folders) - doesn't even include WinRar for opening RAR's - uses 7-Zip. ;)

Interestingly (slightly OT), WinImage will also "dump" the Boot.IMA as well.

Sorry for your wasted time, but valid info WAS given.

Any other problems (beyond all of above) let us know... and read any assistance posts thoroughly. If an "expert" steers you wrong (DOH!), another "expert" will surely correct them.

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among other what kind of tool? because I use a very similar and extended one (Winrar) and you know, it happens to don't find that right away. Why not use 7-zip? Why yes? I wonder...

Tools capable of opening .iso files, typically .iso editors, like Isobuster, MagicIso, PowerIso, or programs dealing with filesystem images such as Winimage, etc., most of them Commercial/Shareware.

7-zip is free (as in free beer and also as in freedom) so everyone can have it, which is a good reason to choose it as a suggested app.

Though it doesn't support creation of .rar files it is a very good archiver with some interesting additional capabilities as it can open most .iso's (including the file used as boot sector, be it a an El-Torito floppy or a no-emulation bootsector) and also most .ima's and .img's).

As a side note (and shameless plug :w00t:) there is also my - as usual - half-@§§ed batch that uses ISOINFO (cdrtools) and DSFO (DSFOK tools) that should do :unsure: :

http://reboot.pro/12406/

jaclaz

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There's a big difference between:

(and El Torito floppy emulation images can be easily extracted from .iso with 7-zip among other tools).

and

(and El Torito floppy emulation images can be easily extracted from .iso with 7-zip).

Adding "among other tools" lessen the importance of using 7-zip, which just equals or put it lower on the importance list than for example winzip, or winrar which are WAY more popular, used, known, and famous (thus likely to be used)

The second line is a straight how-to that doesn't assure succes if you use tools aside those specified.

Talking (or writing) is an art way different than the subject dealing with. Valid info WAS given in an unhelpful way. I, whenever I help, I DO help, straight to the user's needs, not way more (to show off or create confusion) or way less (to make fun in an pseudo-(low-social)-intellectual fashion).

Anyway, most of the wasted time was related to seatools, the thing with dlgdiag was only today.

edit: @jaclaz: and why should I suppose that winrar is only capable of opening half-isos? It's like asking to open .zip files with winzip instead of winrar... As good as 7-zip is, it's not very convenient to use for daily usage, I have it as portable only. There's a misconception in applications that if something is free and deliver good results then it must be used. You know, you ignore things like speed or convenience...

Edited by Dogway
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(sigh...)

Screwdriver not= Hammer

Screwdriver not= Rock

Although a Screwdriver will "screw", it can't "drive" a nail.

Screwdrivers and Hammers cost $ but a Rock does not and does a Hammer's job just as well.

You are free to make 7-Zip ("rock") faster if you wish.

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There's a big difference between:

(and El Torito floppy emulation images can be easily extracted from .iso with 7-zip among other tools).

and

(and El Torito floppy emulation images can be easily extracted from .iso with 7-zip).

I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Reading:

(and El Torito floppy emulation images can be easily extracted from .iso with 7-zip among other tools)

I would say that there are three possibilities:

  1. TRY using the mentioned 7-zip
  2. ASK which other tools can do the same (should the reader not already know such a suitable tool)
  3. ASSUME that WinRar or Winzip, since they are "WAY more popular, used, known, and famous (thus likely to be used)" would do the same

Still 66.66% probabilities of doing the "right thing" :whistle:.

You are not lucky. :(

On the other hand another approach:

use EXCLUSIVELY 7-zip to extract the El-Torito floppy emulation image

would have been likely to raise protests either on the "rude attitude" or by anyone knowing that several other tools capable of doing the same exist.

I guess one can never find a way to make all people happy :( .

Talking (or writing) is an art way different than the subject dealing with.

Sure :), so it is reading and interacting with people, some are more capable than others at it.

edit: @jaclaz: and why should I suppose that winrar is only capable of opening half-isos?

Well, noone (if not you) talked about Winrar, since you were able to suppose that Winrar would do the same as 7-zip, you made a wrong guess, that's all.

As good as 7-zip is, it's not very convenient to use for daily usage, I have it as portable only. There's a misconception in applications that if something is free and deliver good results then it must be used.

And again it all depends on personal opinions, I personally find 7-zip so convenient that I also use it as dual pane file manager, but never said that it is "very convenient" or "more convenient" than WInrar, Winzip or *any* other "WAY more popular, used, known, and famous (thus likely to be used)" app.

I simply stated that it was convenient to do the specific task of extracting the El-Torito floppy emulation image from the .iso.

Additionally I never stated that "if something is free and deliver good results then it must be used", I stated how (evidently) free apps are freely available.

You know, you ignore things like speed or convenience...

Yeah, I am working on them, should I need some help in learning about them I will ask you some.

jaclaz

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Still 66.66% probabilities of doing the "right thing" :whistle:.

You are again ignoring the influence weight of each of the options (assuming even importance). Which leads to the next paragraph:

Talking (or writing) is an art way different than the subject dealing with.

Sure :), so it is reading and interacting with people, some are more capable than others at it.

That's basically the same I said, talking ability is a communication (interaction if you like it) skill.

edit: @jaclaz: and why should I suppose that winrar is only capable of opening half-isos?

Well, noone (if not you) talked about Winrar, since you were able to suppose that Winrar would do the same as 7-zip, you made a wrong guess, that's all.

Obvious now, a wrong guess, but totally natural guess. You suggested me a file archiver, I used "among others" file archiver (the most popular actually). Had you suggested a strict ISO application, I'd had used one.

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That's basically the same I said, talking ability is a communication (interaction if you like it) skill.

Yes, this means that we basically agree. :)

You suggested me a file archiver, I used "among others" file archiver (the most popular actually). Had you suggested a strict ISO application, I'd had used one.

No :no: , I never suggested "a file archiver", and not even 7-zip :w00t: , I simply stated how 7-zip was capable to do the specific task (easily) and that it was not the only program in the world capable of doing that, without specifying any "category" to which either 7-zip or the other tools capable of performing the task belong or should belong to.

You assumed that 7-zip is "a file archiver" (which is not, or not only, being also a file manager and actually sporting this in it's windows title):

7zfm.png

and then further assumed that the "file archiver" WinRar, being "most popular" could do the same task.

As said, you made a wrong guess, it happens to everyone, not a problem as I see it :) , and as soon as you actually asked for clarifications cdob :thumbup promptly provided them.

BTW, I didn't know that Winrar was the "most popular" file archiver, have you got some data about this?

jaclaz

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We are basically discussing the nuances of language communication here.

To demonstrate that using a file archiver* "among others" is capable of doing a determined action, it's implicitly a suggestion of using that tool or one among the same kind.

At least at the eyes of whoever is asking which (kind of) tool to use. Because if otherwise with "among others" you referred to among ALL THE APPLICATION EVER MADE FOR ANY KIND, then you are being very mean and vague with the expression, in which case you would have better omitted those unnecessary and unhelpful words that only create confusion.

You don't have to be very clever to assume winrar is the most popular. There's where the "reading" part of communication comes from. Just google them to have an approx. idea.

*head to http://www.7-zip.org/ and read the very first sentence at the top.

Edited by Dogway
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You don't have to be very clever to assume winrar is the most popular.

But you should have some sound data in order to state it.... that's a nuance in language communication.

I read "the most popular actually" as a statement, and not as an assumption.

Similarly, if I write 7-zip, usually it is because I mean 7-zip.

If I wanted to write "a file manager" or " a file archiver" or "a popular file archiver", I would have most probably wrote that :unsure: .

I try my best to be as accurate as I can and try to avoid misunderstandings but evidently my attempts are not good enough to prevent free interpretation/assumptions.

To me:

El Torito floppy emulation images can be easily extracted from .iso with 7-zip among other tools

still means plainly:

There are several tools capable of extracting from a .iso the El-Torito floppy emulation image, of all them I will name just 7-zip which can do that easily.

which seems to me like the accepted and acceptable meaning of the expression "among other(s)":

http://dictionary.reverso.net/english-cobuild/among%20other(s)

You use expressions like among other things or among others to indicate that there are several more facts, things, or people like the one or ones mentioned, but that you do not intend to mention them all.

"tools" seem to me like a non-specific enough name that means generically "tools" and not particularly "file archivers" or "tools inherently similar in nature and usage paradigm to 7-zip".

You have to take into account also that English is not my mother tongue and more generally I was writing a post on a technical board and not writing a novel.

jaclaz

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But you should have some sound data in order to state it.... that's a nuance in language communication.

Anything I say is a statement, at most a statement alike opinion. Statements are illusions of individuals who think to own a truth, but that's only my opinion, it's how languages work. Anyways, isn't google proof enough (without declare it a statement)?

BTW language is not something you can explain or demonstrate like in science, it's hard to explain why blue is a relaxing color, while red is a hot, passionate color, but everyone agrees to that for reasons human beings can't yet explain. I'm not going to write a thesis on how everything I say has an evidential proof when it is assumed that human beings have a sense we usually call common sense and refer to the above things, it's like trying to demonstrate the obvious, or let's call it plausible.

I'm not saying that what you said was wrong, it's just that don't expect everyone to think things you already know. That's why despite how much knowledge an individual could own about something, being a teacher is another different matter, you need an empathic sense of what the pupil might or not think, reverse thinking, that is.

and at last:

...more facts, things, or people like the one or ones mentioned...

what do you understand by "like" here?

whatever? or something alike?

English isn't either my mother tongue, actually I barely talk it nice, but languages are more similar than one might expect (I talk a 3rd language too).

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Anyways, isn't google proof enough (without declare it a statement)?

How exactly google is a proof of popularity of Winrar (or of any other program)? :unsure:

I mean how exactly did you probed Winrar popularity through google? (with which search terms, with which options, etc.)

Be aware that count results might represent a meaningless metric:

http://web.archive.org/web/20110628184253/http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/google-result-counts-are-a-meaningless-metric.html

jaclaz

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"WinRar"

77,400,000 results

"7-Zip"

15,800,000 results

I don't think your linked page has nothing to do with this. Anything in this life is absolute, it's just an indication. But if you still want to think that blue is a hot, passionate color, that's fine with me.

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"WinRar"

77,400,000 results

"7-Zip"

15,800,000 results

"gzip"

About 154,000,000 results :whistle:

BUt what do you expect from pigeons? :w00t::unsure:

http://www.google.com/onceuponatime/technology/pigeonrank.html

Some more meaningless metrics:

www.winrar.com

http://www.alexa.com/search?q=www.winrar.com&r=site_screener&p=bigtop

Alexa Traffic Rank: 237,224 Traffic Rank in US: 182,306 Sites Linking In: 428

www.winzip.com

http://www.alexa.com/search?q=www.winzip.com&r=site_screener&p=bigtop

Alexa Traffic Rank: 4,317 Traffic Rank in US: 2,481 Sites Linking In: 22,726

www.7-zip.org

http://www.alexa.com/search?q=www.7-zip.org&r=site_screener&p=bigtop

Alexa Traffic Rank: 12,040 Traffic Rank in US: 10,078 Sites Linking In: 21,138

www.gzip.org

http://www.alexa.com/search?q=www.gzip.org%2F+&r=site_screener&p=bigtop

Alexa Traffic Rank: 109,516 Traffic Rank in US: 90,913 Sites Linking In: 2,033

I don't think your linked page has nothing to do with this. Anything in this life is absolute, it's just an indication.

I am not sure to get the double negation :unsure:

But if you still want to think that blue is a hot, passionate color, that's fine with me.

Opinions are free :thumbup .

Statements should be IMHO however backed up by some substantial data.

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz
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"gzip"

About 154,000,000 results :whistle:

gzip is too short and unpeculiar to be fooled. If you still wonder, go to bing, or yahoo.

I wouldn't call the official webpage traffic as an accurate evidence of popularity compared to search engines. By no means actually, it's like determining Call of Duty popularity by it's webpage traffic.

I don't think your linked page has nothing to do with this. Anything in this life is absolute, it's just an indication.

I am not sure to get the double negation :unsure:

I already told you, first English is not my mother tongue, second, by only being a native English speaker doesn't mean you can understand me any better if you lack the "reading" component of communication. By your words you also seem to lack that component since for the given context it clearly reads; Nothing is absolute. After having you read this little explanation let me tell you that you are not cooler by playing dumb, I can "read" you being cynical.

But if you still want to think that blue is a hot, passionate color, that's fine with me.

Opinions are free :thumbup .

Statements should be IMHO however backed up by some substantial data.

Again I already told you, no such things as statements do exist, not even this line, maybe is a bit hard for you to understand if you don't open more your mind.

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