rloew

USB Keyboards and Mice

50 posts in this topic

I would like to help out in this endeavor. I am aware of the problem. I installed U98SE SP3.5 & then couldn't get the USB keyboard/mouse I hooked up to work. I reloaded back to 98SE only & confirmed that the USB keyboard/mouse then worked without issue. I then loaded U98SE SP3.5 again & had the same problem-broken USB keyboard/mouse. I have tried numerous things trying to fix the problem that I won't go into now but what is relevant is that I tried U98SE SP3 beta4 & the USB keyboard/mouse still works after the install of this. I don't have any other USB devices being used on this computer so what I would offer to do is reload 98SE only & then try the different SPs so we know which one of the SPs actually breaks the USB keyboard/mouse. I'm hoping then by looking at what was changed between the SPs we could figure out what is breaking the USB keyboard/mouse. Is it possible for you to make the prior SPs available so I could do this testing? Thanks!! Vance

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For all the people who rely only on USB Mice and Keyboards and canNOT use PS/2 Mice and Keyboards, please post here.

I know exactly what the problem is and will be fix immediately. I don't have this problem because I have both USB/PS2 devices. I was able to reproduce this error by not using my PS/2 Mice and Keyboard.

Solution 1

I'm working on solution 2.

Edited by PROBLEMCHYLD
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For all the people who rely only on USB Mice and Keyboards and canNOT use PS/2 Mice and Keyboards, please post here.

I know exactly what the problem is and will be fix immediately. I don't have this problem because I have both USB/PS2 devices. I was able to reproduce this error by not using my PS/2 Mice and Keyboard.

Solution 1

I'm working on solution 2.

I created a temporary Partition on one of my Computers. Installed an original Version of Windows 98SE. Installed an USB Keyboard, Mouse, Headset, and an USB Key using my Generic Lexar Drivers.

I installed U98SESP3, rebooted into Safe Mode, removed all USB Host Controllers, and USB Root Hubs, and rebooted into normal mode.

After the Controllers were reinstalled, only the USB Key reconnected without being redetected. The other three were reinstalled and none worked. All were duplicated and had errors on at least one copy.

This indicates that USB Keyboards and Mice cannot be left installed while the USB Controllers are being replaced. This means that a PS/2 Keyboard or Mouse is Mandatory at least temporarily.

At present I do not have a solution for people who are using a Motherboard with no PS/2 Connector.

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I created a temporary Partition on one of my Computers. Installed an original Version of Windows 98SE. Installed an USB Keyboard, Mouse, Headset, and an USB Key using my Generic Lexar Drivers.

I installed U98SESP3, rebooted into Safe Mode, removed all USB Host Controllers, and USB Root Hubs, and rebooted into normal mode.

After the Controllers were reinstalled, only the USB Key reconnected without being redetected. The oth/er three were reinstalled and none worked. All were duplicated and had errors on at least one copy.

This indicates that USB Keyboards and Mice cannot be left installed while the USB Controllers are being replaced. This means that a PS/2 Keyboard or Mouse is Mandatory at least temporarily.

At present I do not have a solution for people who are using a Motherboard with no PS/2 Connector.

This means, I will have to remove USB drivers altogether.

Making them optional is not an option because users would still have this problem if they don't have a PS/2 Mice/Keyboards.

I'm still working on it.

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I created a temporary Partition on one of my Computers. Installed an original Version of Windows 98SE. Installed an USB Keyboard, Mouse, Headset, and an USB Key using my Generic Lexar Drivers.

I installed U98SESP3, rebooted into Safe Mode, removed all USB Host Controllers, and USB Root Hubs, and rebooted into normal mode.

After the Controllers were reinstalled, only the USB Key reconnected without being redetected. The oth/er three were reinstalled and none worked. All were duplicated and had errors on at least one copy.

This indicates that USB Keyboards and Mice cannot be left installed while the USB Controllers are being replaced. This means that a PS/2 Keyboard or Mouse is Mandatory at least temporarily.

At present I do not have a solution for people who are using a Motherboard with no PS/2 Connector.

This means, I will have to remove USB drivers altogether.

Making them optional is not an option because users would still have this problem if they don't have a PS/2 Mice/Keyboards.

I'm still working on it.

Even now I think the majority of Motherboards have at least one PS/2 Port although I saw some with none. By switching from Gigabyte to Asus, I got a 2 PS/2 Port Motherboard in December 2011.

Another problem I found is that I could not get my USB headset working again. I am going to repeat my experiment using your Instructions as the beginning point rather than trying to preserve existing Registry entries to see what difference it makes.

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A very BIG Thank you. I will watch for your postings.

Some of you guys were right, there is no overall solution as of yet.

We are working on it. Thank you for your patience.

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This means, I will have to remove USB drivers altogether.

Making them optional is not an option because users would still have this problem if they don't have a PS/2 Mice/Keyboards.

I'm still working on it.

Technically there's no reason they could not be left as an option, provided an appropriate warning NOT to choose that option if you use USB Keyboards & Mice is given.

Just for the record. :angel

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Technically there's no reason they could not be left as an option, provided an appropriate warning NOT to choose that option if you use USB Keyboards & Mice is given.

Just for the record. :angel

This won't work either because all updated files resides in the SP3.CAB.

If a user installs a new USB device, the files from SP3.CAB will be installed causing the same issue(s).

This is considered the default instead of the Win98 cd cabs.

I will also have to remove each file one at a time, just to be safe avoiding other mistakes, making sure I don't break anything else in the process. Tampering with the Main Updates option is serious.

Edited by PROBLEMCHYLD
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I would like to report SUCCESS in getting my USB keyboard/mouse to work with SP 3.5. For the record, I don't have any other USB devices on this system-just the USB keyboard/mouse & that's it. I have tried NUMEROUS other things in the past but what got me on the right track was Problemchyld's link called Solution 1 that was an article by USBman called Safe Mode Cleanup of the Device Manager. That information combined with my past experience got it working. I followed USBman's directions & then after the restart back to normal mode, before I plugged in the USB keyboard I moved the SP3.cab file out of the C:|Windows\System\Precopy folder & dropped it on the desktop. Of course through all of this I had a PS/2 keyboard & mouse plugged in until I got the keyboard working & subsequently the mouse also. With the plugging in of the USB keyboard & the start of the Add New Hardware Wizard I had to tell it manually where to get the driver files. The only place I could find the 1st file it needed was in the SP3.cab file. This file was USBccgp.sys. I copied this file out of the SP3.cab & dropped it into a folder I had created named C:\Windows\Options. I had my original CAB files from the 98SE install CD in a folder just under Options named Cabs so for all the rest of the files that were needed for the wizard I pointed it to this location. I believe the only other files needed were HIDclass.sys, HIDparse.sys & HIDusb.sys. Even though it complained that I was replacing newer files I told it to use the ones in the Cabs folder from the original 98SE install CD. Just to make sure it would still work after a restart I restarted the computer, unplugging the PS/2 keyboard before it went through the POST. THE USB KEYBOARD NOW WORKS!!! I followed the same procedure for the mouse & got it to work also. I know this is just a workaround so I am anticipating when you have it all figured out Problemchyld. I hope this helps you in some small way to get these kinks out. Thank you so much for your untiring efforts in this area. I work for a Christian radio station that has limited finances but uses audio cards that only work in ISA slots (Dont't laugh, they work great even though they are ancient) & on top of that their software only runs on 98 so the resources you provide are invaluable. When I had to reload a computer recently I found Windows updates no longer available so after a little research I was very thankful to find your service especially since it was so easy to implement. BTW, I would assume you have pulled the download of SP3.7 down until you get this USB problem figured out. Is that right?

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Its good that you followed all the necessary steps. I'm glad you have it working. There is only a slight workaround in 3.7. All the instructions that has been listed needs to be followed until we find an overall solution. Like rloew said, most boards has at least one PS/2 connection. This is the only solution for now. Thanks again for testing. It was smart of you to remove the SP3.CAB, as I said earlier it becomes the default for the Win98 cab files.You don't need to remove the cab file in 3.7. rloew, if you have some time, maybe you can whip up a quick tutorial and add it to the first post. Then anyone who's having these issues can maybe benefit from the solution. Thanks everyone.

Edited by PROBLEMCHYLD
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Technically there's no reason they could not be left as an option, provided an appropriate warning NOT to choose that option if you use USB Keyboards & Mice is given.

Just for the record. :angel

This won't work either because all updated files resides in the SP3.CAB.

If a user installs a new USB device, the files from SP3.CAB will be installed causing the same issue(s).

This is considered the default instead of the Win98 cd cabs.

I will also have to remove each file one at a time, just to be safe avoiding other mistakes, making sure I don't break anything else in the process. Tampering with the Main Updates option is serious.

This would explain your reluctance to add options and some of the things you have said before that others did not understand. I noticed the many references to SP3.CAB, even after a complete device reset. It is a limitation of the your design. You may want to consider a different design for SP4.

I repeated my earlier experiments using the original instructions. I was able to get my USB Keyboard and Mouse to operate, the USB Audio is definitely broken. The USBAUDIO.SYS has dependencies on KS.SYS that requires KS.SYS to be updated. U98SESP3 does not update KS.SYS. Windows Update did this in the Directx update. There is a dependency on DRMK.SYS which is not in Windows 98SE, Windows Update or U98SESP3. The File does exist in Windows XP.

I did find a way to reinstall USB without a PS/2 Keyboard or Mouse, but it was a long involved procedure using a Script and a Mouse Click Generator I wrote.

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You may want to consider a different design for SP4.

This was Gape's design by default. I didn't change it because he must have had a very good reason for this. I'm sorry but I don't know of any other solution.

I repeated my earlier experiments using the original instructions. I was able to get my USB Keyboard and Mouse to operate, the USB Audio is definitely broken. The USBAUDIO.SYS has dependencies on KS.SYS that requires KS.SYS to be updated. U98SESP3 does not update KS.SYS. Windows Update did this in the Directx update. There is a dependency on DRMK.SYS which is not in Windows 98SE, Windows Update or U98SESP3. The File does exist in Windows XP.

Was everything fixed after you installed the latest DirectX?

I did find a way to reinstall USB without a PS/2 Keyboard or Mouse, but it was a long involved procedure using a Script and a Mouse Click Generator I wrote.

Do you think this solution can be use in the Service Pack?
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This won't work either because all updated files resides in the SP3.CAB.

If a user installs a new USB device, the files from SP3.CAB will be installed causing the same issue(s).

This is considered the default instead of the Win98 cd cabs.

I will also have to remove each file one at a time, just to be safe avoiding other mistakes, making sure I don't break anything else in the process. Tampering with the Main Updates option is serious.

Hmmm... :unsure:

Well, I do have an idea that should solve the issues at hand and keep you from having to remove all of the USB updates.

(rloew please comment on this and confirm whether or not it should work :thumbup )

Replacing the USB 1.1 drivers seems to be causing this issue. If you revert back to the Windows 98SE USB Updates/HotFixes for USB 1.1 WITHOUT using the Windows ME USB 1.1 stack (back to NUSB 3.3) and remove my combined USB.INF, then users should not have to remove USB 1.1 devices & controllers and should not have this problem.

Having the updated 98SE HotFix versions is better than having no USB updates at all, and this would prevent you from having to remove the USB2 and USB Storage files.

If users want to use the ME USB 1.1 stack then they will have to have PS2 Keyboards & Mice, or they will have to put the combined USB.INF & ME USB stack in their \WIN98 folder when doing a clean install. (This would override the 98SE versions from the beginning, leaving no errors from changing them later.)

Edited by LoneCrusader
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I repeated my earlier experiments using the original instructions. I was able to get my USB Keyboard and Mouse to operate, the USB Audio is definitely broken. The USBAUDIO.SYS has dependencies on KS.SYS that requires KS.SYS to be updated. U98SESP3 does not update KS.SYS. Windows Update did this in the Directx update. There is a dependency on DRMK.SYS which is not in Windows 98SE, Windows Update or U98SESP3. The File does exist in Windows XP.

Was everything fixed after you installed the latest DirectX?

I didn't try. Without DRMK.SYS it would not have been enough. I don't know if the DRMK.SYS in my XP System is useable or not.

I did find a way to reinstall USB without a PS/2 Keyboard or Mouse, but it was a long involved procedure using a Script and a Mouse Click Generator I wrote.

Do you think this solution can be use in the Service Pack?

Right now it is rather messy and involves many manual steps. I suspect there is a better way. A silent install similar to what happens during Windows Installation would probably be the best solution.

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With all due respect, what's the advantage of adding the ME USB 1.1 stack?

I know they're designed to work with the ME USB 2.0 stack, but up to NUSB 3.3 we were using the 98SE USB 1.1 stack with the latest available hotfixes (some of which are compiled latter than the original ME files) and it worked all right (and was pretty well time proven). So, forgive me if this was discussed previously, but I confess I don't remember it ever having been discussed...

Later edit:

That's because I must be getting senile... These <link> <link> are the relevant posts, right?

But I do think LoneCrusader's idea is worth a shot...

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