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Weird file sorting annoyance in NTFS

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13 replies to this topic

#1
Joseph_sw

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i got this weird sorting annoyance:
the files/folders were sorted seperately, but its only happened on NTFS volume.

I set view to 'Details',
click on the name tab to sort it,
then hit the F5 key.

and the result: (click the image to view larger version)
Attached File  NTFS_vs_FAT_sorts.JPG   150.36KB   31 downloads
Left side on NTFS volume,
Right side on FAT32 volume.

Why so different?

What should i do to make it 'right' on NTFS volume?
EDIT: I tried to copy the folder from FAT32 into random place in NTFS volume, the problem persisted.

Edited by Joseph_sw, 08 September 2012 - 05:49 PM.



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#2
submix8c

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HUH???
Do you mean the PANES (left side <-> right side) reverse when F5 is pressed, depending on NTFS-FAT32?
Don't work that way here.
BTW, "Correcting Sort Order" (to make sort same as 9x)
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\policies\Explorer]
"NoStrCmpLogical"=dword:00000001

Someday the tyrants will be unthroned... Jason "Jay" Chasteen; RIP, bro!

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#3
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Maybe a screenshot ( that's not too small! ) would help?

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 08 September 2012 - 10:06 AM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#4
submix8c

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Agreed!

Press "Print" Key, open the Paint program, Past the image, save it, then attach it. PLEASE be aware of the Size, else maybe on Photobucket?

Someday the tyrants will be unthroned... Jason "Jay" Chasteen; RIP, bro!

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#5
Joseph_sw

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sorry, it seem the attachment was removed, i upload it again.

on Left pane was how explorer shows it on NTFS volume, after i sort them by names then hit the F5 key,
on the right pane was how explorer shows it on FAT32 volume, also with the same treatment, sort'em with name then hit the F5 key,
both were from same computers.

you'll see on the NTFS volume,
the files and folder were not group-ed as it was on FAT32 volume.


Thanks for the registry settings, it doesn't solve the problem, as explorer still showing the same result.
but its really help sorting to my liking as i'have many files that named HexaDecimal-y.

#6
submix8c

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Your attachments are "gone". How big are they? (see size limit below the "browse/attach" when attaching)

edit - NM... I see above...

Not left<->right panes - just the Folders/Files in one pane.

F5 = Refresh

Under Windows 98SE with an NTFS-access Interface Program? (You left that part out in the Description).

Edited by submix8c, 09 September 2012 - 09:02 AM.

Someday the tyrants will be unthroned... Jason "Jay" Chasteen; RIP, bro!

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#7
CharlotteTheHarlot

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( btw good screenshot ), submix is right, need more info ...

So this is WinXP? Using "Windows Classic" Theme or Themes service disabled?

Two separate Explorer Windows open ( not two panes ).

Left Window C:\Program Files is NTFS?

Right Window E:\HTML is Fat32?

You want them both like the right window?

Try right-clicking an empty space in the left window, hold the pointer over Arrange Icons By > and see if Show In Groups is checked.

Then see if the same setting exists in the right window.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#8
submix8c

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The left<->right pane doesn't have to apply.
The Screen shots are apparently "after" F5 - left side=NT / right side=FAT32

NO WAY!! How do you have your Tools->Options set?

This CAN'T be 98SE as the C-drive is NTFS!!! WHAT did you DO????

Someday the tyrants will be unthroned... Jason "Jay" Chasteen; RIP, bro!

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#9
allen2

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As this topic was posted in the XP section it could be under XP. Did you tried with another (preferably a new) login ?

#10
Joseph_sw

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silly me, I forgot to said that above happened in WinXP Pro (x86).

I've also made some checking my copying file/folders one-by-one.
And finally, I found that might be the culprit: the 'nojs' file.

If I deletes the that file, the explorer will show proper sorts results.
Then I try to undelete that file, then again explorer showing weird sorting result.

Somehow its occured to me to rename nojs file,
depend on the name, the sorting weirdness also changes.

This makes me wonder what about that file causing the weirdness?


Long story short, and after various testing,
I arrive to this temporary conclusion - The sorting weirdness may happen on NTFS volume when:

"Its contain a Zero-Sized file(s), with
Last-Modified date were somehow being set before Jan/1 1980 12:00:00 AM GMT."


well, I did using Norton Utilites File Date (from DOS era), to change Modified date to 'Jan-1'80 0:0'
and since the winXP were using eastern side from GMT Time Zone (GMT+),
it seems the WinXP explorer doesn't take it well and refuse to shows the 'Modified Date' as seen on my screenshot.

And I take advantage of that to ease showing which files I've worked on.
Therefore I can easy-ly tell which files that have been modified while being sorted by its name.

Since I need that file as zero-sized file and it that name,
I've to compromise by changing its modified date.


The conclusion however is not decisive,
as I rename the problematic files to various names,
its doesn't always resulted in seperate sortings like I expect it would.

The weird sorting were not happening in FAT32 volume,
probably because FAT32 doesn't have Time-Zone-ed Modified Date,
and its immposible to set the modified date earlier than Jan/1 '80 12:00 AM in FAT32

#11
CharlotteTheHarlot

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This is very interesting actually. :yes: I can't really say I seen this, ever. Congrats for figuring it out. :thumbup

BTW, using NU can be risky, at least on the FAT disk. When Win95 came out it there were red-flag warnings to never again use the 16-bit apps, and only run the 'new and improved' bloated 32-bit programs. I'm sure a few of them were okay, but everything disk related was considered dangerous.

I actually did notice the missing date/time on the files in the screenshot and the very next thing I was going to suggest was to get yourself a real file manager and let that EXPLORER dog die. Anything will suffice really, as long as it shows all the details including file attributes ( actually EXPLORER has that option as well, you should enable that in choose details ). I use PowerDesk out of long-running habit, but there are many others.

It's not like you lose EXPLORER or anything by using a 3rd party dedicated file manager, but you gain two things. Most of them store their settings privately rather than bloating the registry full of barely editable or understandable settings. Also, EXPLORER is itself an instance of the Windows shell so if you manage to crash it, you likely take down the shell in the process. And the reverse might be true - if the shell is slow or buggy from some weird problem it might impact your ability to browse files in the Explorer window(s). It's just too tangled in my opinion. 3rd party apps are almost always much more insulated from these things.

Oh, what is it anyway, "Windows Classic" or Themes service disabled?

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#12
submix8c

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? NU DOS-era on NTFS??? Um... NTFS Directory Info is in MFT...
Hope you did that when it was a FAT and you converted to NTFS...

"NOJS"??? Drupal is the only ref I could find?

Edited by submix8c, 09 September 2012 - 03:12 PM.

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#13
Joseph_sw

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actualy settings modified date for file are one of many function of INT 21h, AX=5701h
its still available on XP's NTVDM cmd.exe -or- command.com

for those who know how to use INT 21h,
they can even change any non-acl-restricted file's last-modified date to any valid date/time,
using debug.exe

its really not much different than 'touch' command from unix universe.

Oh, what is it anyway, "Windows Classic" or Themes service disabled?

I change into classic in Display properties AND I disabled the themes services.


but, its really are weird,
Why sorting by Name were affected by file's Size AND last-modified Date ?
It doesn't make any sense.
I can only suspect some glitchy happening in XP's explorer.exe ...

#14
allen2

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If you ever need touch from unix on windows, you have the mingw port that works fairly well.




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