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Windows 8


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27 replies to this topic

#1
alucke

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What are the differences between Windows 7 and Windows 8, besides the no start button or menu. And should I go straight to Windows 8 from Windows 7?

alucke


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#2
Kelsenellenelvian

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http://www.msfn.org/...d-in-windows-8/

Read the above post.

Main points:

No dvd or blue ray support out of the box. (I hear you can pay extra for that though)

Smart screen filter is a front for big brother style ms spyware. It dials home and tells MS what you download and install.

Primarily touch based OS, it SUCKS with a mouse.

Edited by Kelsenellenelvian, 19 September 2012 - 04:18 PM.


#3
vinifera

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+
its ugly
its clunky
its less efficient
If you want true Windows user experience
try Longhorn builds: 3718, 4029, 4066

#4
cad

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Not desktop friendly
Won't run Nuance Paperport 14
No start menu
Overall a down grade to Windows 7
I could keep listing, but I think you see the patern

#5
cluberti

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And to counter what the haters say, it works just fine with a keyboard and mouse. It's fast. I personally don't find it ugly or clunky. It's very efficient, especially over a network. I'm not here to argue with folks, but I figured given the first 3 responses gave you negatives based on opinion, I'd add my own in the positive column.

Ultimately, you will want to do what works for you - your computer is just a tool. If Windows 7 works for you, and you don't have any compelling reasons to upgrade, then doing so would be more preference - if you don't like the "metro" design language of the Windows Phone or Windows 8, don't upgrade. If you're getting new hardware, or you like the new design, then upgrading should be a good thing. Whatever allows you to work like you want to work and get stuff done (or, distract you from getting stuff done ;)), that's what you should use in the long run.
MCTS Windows Internals, MCITP Server 2008 EA, MCTS MDT/BDD, MCSE/MCSA Server 2003, Server 2012, Windows 8
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#6
xpclient

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Almost everything is a regression. File Explorer's status bar is ruined, Ribbon introduced compared to the simple toolbar. Previous Versions with Shadow Copy replaced by File History which doesn't even save delta differences. Many small Windows 7 features broken and carelessly dropped. Overall, if you ask me, it's a VERY CRAPPY product. Vista was better on an uber high-end system than this s*** except maybe performance of Windows 8 is no problem.If you love everything "simplified" (read uber-dumbed down), then Windows 8 is for you. :P There are options removed from even various Control Panels. Group Policies which work only up to W7 but don't apply to Windows 8 because they "simplified" it. :realmad: New Task Manager is a big disaster, although some of them find it "improved" and "new" because it looks cartoonish and eye-candish. File copy dialog is also worse IMHO because it requires more clicks to compare file size, date etc. Programmatic file associations are removed. Metro crap will always load in memory unless you use Tihiy's patch. Can't change logon screen programmatically. Ugly Metro graphics everywhere will p*** you off. Fun things like games and Flip3D and killed by "simplified" Metro crap. Shell dialogs like AutoPlay, Open With are ruined by Metro crap. Glass transparency gone, Classic theme and Window metric/Appearance settings removed. Windows Update doesn't even notify you via balloon of new updates because they thought it was annoying, so decide to leave no option!!! Update available notification is moved to logon screen where you will miss it if you use autologon. Even dialogs for BitLocker are "simplified": http://4.bp.blogspot...lock+dialog.png . All in all, it's a grandma OS designed by Head Grandma, Julie Larson Green. Even the BSOD and Chkdsk repairs have been dumbed down. You get Hyper-V (which requires SLAT-compatible CPU, but you lose Virtual PC. Hyper-V doesn't have sound for VMs AFAIK.

And most importantly. It's an attempt to kill the desktop and Win32 API which is now "secondary", "legacy" and in "maintenance mode" while WinRT gets all the love and is "the future". Microsoft's other products, Office, Visual Studio etc are also taking a beating due to crappy Metro-style design which they think is "modern" and "beautiful". Windows Media Player is dead, no improvement to the crappy WMP 12 and isn't even included in Windows RT. Media Center is dead. Backup and Restore is dead.All concept of backward compatible design and leaving alone what already worked is dead. They will constantly re-imagine things and stuff you love in Windows 8 may disappear in Windows 9.

Edited by xpclient, 27 September 2012 - 12:09 PM.

Impossible to run NT6 without third party fixes.


#7
Win2k3EE

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I have a gut feeling that Windows 9 will be Windows 7 Service Pack 2 renamed. :thumbup

#8
jaclaz

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And most importantly. It's an attempt to kill the desktop and Win32 API which is now "secondary", "legacy" and in "maintenance mode" while WinRT gets all the love and is "the future". Microsoft's other products, Office, Visual Studio etc are also taking a beating due to crappy Metro-style design which they think is "modern" and "beautiful".

JFYI ;):
http://homepage.ntlw...pejorative.html

legacy (adj) — A pejorative term used in the computer industry meaning "it works"


:thumbup

#9
xpclient

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I am not sure about this alternate OS trend being good then bad now. As long as the three idiots are at Msft, (Ballmer, Sinofsky and JLG), everything will come out TOTAL CRAP after this. The very top people need to be honest, visionary and intelligent like Gates or Allchin.The current management is clueless, arrogant, dishonest and dumb. That's harsh but true.

Edited by xpclient, 20 September 2012 - 07:19 AM.

Impossible to run NT6 without third party fixes.


#10
cad

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I am not sure about this alternate OS trend being good then bad now. As long as the three idiots are at Msft, (Ballmer, Sinofsky and JLG), everything will come out TOTAL CRAP after this. The very top people need to be honest, visionary and intelligent like Gates or Allchin.The current management is clueless, arrogant, dishonest and dumb. That's harsh but true.

Well Said and True

#11
MagicAndre1981

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test it your self. Download the 90day trial and use it. If you like it stick with it and what most likely happens is that you want Windows 7 back.
Posted Image

#12
CharlotteTheHarlot

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I am not sure about this alternate OS trend being good then bad now.

We should start calling it the Windows Tick Tock ...

Spoiler


EDIT: updated image URL, and again

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 06 May 2013 - 07:49 PM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#13
JJerome

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http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/156585-features-and-options-removed-in-windows-8/

Read the above post.

Main points:

No dvd or blue ray support out of the box. (I hear you can pay extra for that though)

Smart screen filter is a front for big brother style ms spyware. It dials home and tells MS what you download and install.

Primarily touch based OS, it SUCKS with a mouse.


no DVD playback decreases the cost for consumers. how many people do you know that still use DVDs? if you require it, download something like media player classic.

That's exaggerated beyond belief. See http://arstechnica.c...-for-the-trees/
even if it were an accurate portrayal of the feature, it's not like you can't turn smart screen off!

it's been working very nicely for me. seems like there are two categories: one group says it sucks with a mouse, yet another says it works fine.

its ugly
its clunky
its less efficient


"beauty is in the eye of the beholder"
...clunky? smaller footprint than windows 7.
how is it less efficient?


Not desktop friendly
Won't run Nuance Paperport 14
No start menu
Overall a down grade to Windows 7
I could keep listing, but I think you see the patern


thats bullhocky! explain how it isn't desktop friendly? because of the gestures like start screen, etc?
newsflash: if you use windows 7, you no doubt use gestures all of the time!
there are several improvements over the windows 7 desktop. for example, file transfer information now has graphs and heat maps to indicate file transfer speed. information is now presented in one window, instead of multiple confusing windows. you can now pause file transfers.
just a few more, from wikipedia:

Similar to Microsoft Office and Windows Essentials, the re-designed File Explorer (formerly Windows Explorer) uses the ribbon interface to enhance discoverability of commands and bring relevant commands to users depending on their file selection. For example, selecting photos in a folder brings up tools to rotate the photos and to start a slide show. The interface was selected to bring forward the most commonly used commands for easy access. The "Up" button (which advances the user back a level in the folder hierarchy) that was removed from Explorer after Windows XP has also been restored. Additionally, File Explorer features a redesigned preview pane that takes advantage of widescreen layouts.


File Explorer will feature a new user interface for copying and moving files, offering both a simplified interface and an advanced interface for users to monitor the speed of the operations. Users now view all simultaneous file operations in one consolidated window, and can pause file operations in progress. A new interface has also been introduced for managing file name collisions in a file operation, allowing users to easily control which conflicting files are copied



File Explorer can now mount ISO, IMG, and VHD files as virtual drives through simple right-clicks or the Explorer toolbar, as compared to Windows 7 where VHDs could be mounted in a less-discoverable way, via the Disk Management section in the Computer Management MMC, or by using diskpart from the command line.


New Task Manager
The tabs are hidden by default. This view only shows applications
Resource utilization in the Processes tab is shown using a heat map, with darker shades of yellow representing heavier use.
The Performance tab is split into CPU, memory, disk, Ethernet, and wireless network (if applicable) sections. There are overall graphs for each, and clicking on one reaches details for that particular resource The CPU tab no longer displays individual graphs for every logical processor on the system by default. It now can show data for each NUMA node
The CPU tab now displays simple percentages on heat-mapping tiles to display utilization for systems with many (64 or more, up to 640) logical processors.[17] The color used for these heat maps is blue, with darker color again indicating heavier utilization
Hovering the cursor over any logical processor's data now shows the NUMA node of that processor and its ID

A new Startup tab has been added that lists startup applications and their impact on boot time
The Processes tab now lists application names, application status, and overall usage data for CPU, memory, hard disk, and network resources for each process The new task manager recognizes when a WinRT application is in "Suspended" status
The normal process information found in the older Task Manager can be found in the new Details tab


what can the start menu do that the start screen can't??
the start screen still has instant search, pinning, and also live tiles, better screen estate, item grouping, etc.

just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that it's a "downgrade". in order to be a viable reference, you must separate yourself from bias (be objective), otherwise, your evaluations aren't worth crap!

Edited by JJerome, 20 September 2012 - 10:57 PM.


#14
tomasz86

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thats bullhocky! explain how it isn't desktop friendly? because of the gestures like start screen, etc?
newsflash: if you use windows 7, you no doubt use gestures all of the time!

Gestures which are used in Win8 like grabbing the top of a window and pulling it down to close an application are very inefficient when used on a large screen (I've never used ALT+F4 as much as when using this system :P). Also the hot corners are very annoying and completely useless if you've got more than one monitor.

post-47483-1123010975.png


#15
bphlpt

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just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that it's a "downgrade".


True, and just because you like it doesn't mean it's an upgrade. :) Win 8 is definitely a polarizing OS. There will be folks that like it and those that don't. Members of either group can change their mind after using the OS for a while. All of the changes from Win7 can each be spun by the respective group into either an advantage or a disadvantage. But none of that should really matter to you. Objectivity does not mean anything in the context of how well a tool works for you. How it feels in your hands and if you are able to use it to do the jobs you need it to do are what matters and are what should shape your opinions. As MagicAndre1981 suggests,

test it your self. Download the 90day trial and use it.


How it performs for you, on your hardware, with your software apps, and if it meets your needs is what is important, not what any of us say. After you've tried it, come back, chime in and lets us know your experience and your opinions as a result. Good luck.

Cheers and Regards

Edited by bphlpt, 21 September 2012 - 12:09 AM.

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#16
JJerome

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True, and just because you like it doesn't mean it's an upgrade. :)


the reasons I like it are because it is an upgrade. take the ability to pause file transfers for example. it also has a lot of security improvements that windows 7 lacks.

All of the changes from Win7 can each be spun by the respective group into either an advantage or a disadvantage.

but not if someone is objectively speaking. how can one possibly argue that (for example) the new file transfer features are a disadvantage over what was previously offered, when they have more functionality?

Objectivity does not mean anything in the context of how well a tool works for you.

see above. if the features are better than their predecessors, then yes it means something. there can be no (honest) denial that it has improved features over windows 7, even if one doesn't like the os as a whole.
take windows vista for example. almost nobody liked it when it launched (?) but there can be no denying that it was a improvement over windows xp.

Edited by JJerome, 21 September 2012 - 12:40 AM.


#17
bphlpt

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take windows vista for example. almost nobody liked it when it launched (?) but there can be no denying that it was a improvement over windows xp.


LOL I think there are MANY that will argue, rightly or wrongly, with that statement. I also agree that Vista was probably underrated, but that is not the point :)

Seriously, I am not trying to start a flame war and I will not participate in one. If you like Win8, or Win7, or Vista, or XP, or Win2K, or 98, or any of the various flavors of Linux, and it meets your needs and you have no reason to change, then by all means continue to use it, be happy and have a nice day.

Cheers and Regards

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#18
aviv00

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I'm pretty enjoy windows 8
cant stand metro tho but with explorer7 hack everything is cool

the speed and responsive are better, boot time improve too
for example changing tabs at Firefox is faster no hicks up no lags

however there small gives up like Aero
overall its a good upgrade

the most changing in this OS is in its core the users wont see them at once

Edited by aviv00, 21 September 2012 - 02:22 AM.


#19
vinifera

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take windows vista for example. almost nobody liked it when it launched (?) but there can be no denying that it was a improvement over windows xp.


LOL I think there are MANY that will argue, rightly or wrongly, with that statement. I also agree that Vista was probably underrated, but that is not the point :)


well said
Vista as itself has nothing that much radical improved over XP

I personally only liked the introduction of DWM which removes the GDI limitations that XP had which caused that OS to be totally unusable
If you want true Windows user experience
try Longhorn builds: 3718, 4029, 4066

#20
MagicAndre1981

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Vista as itself has nothing that much radical improved over XP


I hope this is a joke. Otherwise I can only say this: Posted Image Vista was the largest architecture improvement ever to Windows ;)

You should buy the Windows Internals book 4 (covers Xp and 2003) and 5 (covers Vista and Server 2008) to see the huge amount of improvements. Small improvements were made in Windows 7 compared to Vista... :whistle:
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#21
JorgeA

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what can the start menu do that the start screen can't??

Unlike the regular Start Menu, the Metro start screen takes over the whole monitor -- which is a hindrance to work, for instance when I'm trying to follow complicated instructions witn unfamiliar program names in a desktop window and the Metro screen covers up the next step I have to take. With the regular Start Menu, I can open it and look for the next program while still being able to see the directions telling me what I need to do.

--JorgeA

#22
CharlotteTheHarlot

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the reasons I like it are because it is an upgrade. take the ability to pause file transfers for example. it also has a lot of security improvements that windows 7 lacks.

IMHO, there are a ton of reasons to despise Windows 8 and Metro and only a couple to like it. But I do want to understand this alleged file copy dialog improvement.

Considering the transfer speeds we have now, what on Earth is the reason for pausing a copy? For almost two decades we have been able to start copying something, and if it doesn't complete it's task instantly simply ALT-TAB to something else, letting it go it's merry way! As the HDD and controller and other mass storage and peripheral speeds have increased enormously, problems and complaints have all but vanished. At the very least it is a classic example of fixing something that wasn't broken in the first place, like changing a car's rims to spokes for the next model year and saying wow! what an improvement!.

I'm guessing this a consequence of the retrograde ( as opposed to upgrade ) Windows 8 philosophy of reviving the thankfully long dead concept of single or dual-tasking, and the customers' are being be dragged down to same the level of revisionism, that of singing the praises of the state of the art in windows 3.x.

Besides, I think the filename collision dialogs are terrible, all of them from Vista forward. They are pretty much a joke and illustrate a dialog designed by a committee of bureaucrats. All we really needed to fix the 'legacy' conflict resolution was an option for "NO TO ALL" and it would have been fine. Oh yeah, a file compare option as well. But 'pausing' a copy?!? Who ordered that?

EDIT: just want to add that this alleged improvement should be quantitatively cited by those extolling it's virtues, how many times could one possibly need to pause a copy operation, if ever. This thing is exactly like the phony bootup speed improvement. After you subtract out hybrid sleep, and non-Windows hardware speed improvement from moving from BIOS to UEFI, what is the net gain? 20 seconds?

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 21 September 2012 - 05:10 PM.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#23
vinifera

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@rant of start screen

the concept behind start screen is good bud terrible executed (like all MS ideas -_-)
screens are big and long these days and could remove need of start menu
but only if you could have either tabbed (or "modern" buttoned) sections instead subfolders that menu has
and you'd simply have icons with names below nicely named and sorted just like in folder
there's no need for useless scrolling or intrusive full screen crap

this don't take rocket scientist to make but they fail at any UX design and make it crap
I still fail to see how they can say they spend hundreds thousands of $ on user testing and experience when in final product they always serve garbage

Edited by vinifera, 21 September 2012 - 05:46 PM.

If you want true Windows user experience
try Longhorn builds: 3718, 4029, 4066

#24
Kelsenellenelvian

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Seriously??

I would pay easily 10-100x the cost for native dvd and blue ray codecs. (I read the actual license cost for MS boils down to dimes a license sold per OS)

Millions are going to be screwed by the big-brother smartscreen filter. (It's not like a click will turn it off, it is not really easy)

Tiles (NCI) suck a** when using a desktop, plus we will see how the hundreds of popular games play on it.

#25
cad

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I don't start a file transfer to pause it, I want it done or I would not start it.
So file transfer pause is a waste of time.




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