JorgeA

Ways to get back the Start Menu/Button in Win8

221 posts in this topic

If the full screen is used I can use the new "we call it no longer Metro" Fullscreen thing ;) And don't want me full screen filled. Is this so hard to understand? That's why the Vista/7 startmenu is perfect for me.

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Please, I mean no offense at all Andre, but you're one of the first people I've known who dislike the cascading menu stlye so much, but I'm sure there are others as well. If Classic Shell had an option to use the Vista/7 startmenu style, would there be anything else that could be changed or added to Classic Shell to further improve it and the way you would use it?

Cheers and Regards

Edited by bphlpt
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If the full screen is used I can use the new "we call it no longer Metro" Fullscreen thing ;) And don't want me full screen filled. Is this so hard to understand? That's why the Vista/7 startmenu is perfect for me.

I see and understand what you mean. :) I was just replying to the menu closing complaint. :) Classic Shell's menu can be made to show as a single column. Then it takes less than half of the screen. not the full screen if you don't want.

You would be amused to know that the top two reasons why Classic Shell was developed when we already had the Windows 7 menu were:

#1. Being able to use accelerator keys in a menu to navigate using the keyboard. E.g.Win key, then U for Shut Down, Win key, then P for Programs and so on.

#2. Not having a limited area to show all your programs to eliminate scrolling. (Windows 8's approach suffers badly to reduce scrolling despite using full screen because

a. it doesn't show by organized set of folders.

b. everything has to be oversized to support touch

c. covering the taskbar and notification area makes you lose the visual context). But if touch is your primary input method, then Classic Shell's menu icon size can be increased too to any icon size that Windows supports. Windows 7's menu (or its clones) don't scale for large icon sizes comfortable with touch requirements.

It's good that both types of menus are available, so users can use whatever they want.

Edited by xpclient
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In addition to what @xpclient says, the third listing in Post #1 above is for a Vista/7-style start menu skin for Classic Shell.

So as the saying goes, we can have our cake and eat it, too! :yes:

--JorgeA

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In addition to what @xpclient says, the third listing in Post #1 above is for a Vista/7-style start menu skin for Classic Shell.

So as the saying goes, we can have our cake and eat it, too! :yes:

--JorgeA

No JorgeA. In spite of that skin, Classic Shell's All Programs menu does not open in-place/inline like the 7 Start Menu, which is what Andre doesn't like, because it covers more of the screen. But we consider that an advantage, honest :) so it will never change.

Read here: Why Classic Start Menu? on why Classic Shell was developed. One of the main reasons is cascading menu presents a better to browse. It isn't going to change.

Edited by xpclient
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In spite of that skin, Classic Shell's All Programs menu does not open in-place/inline like the 7 Start Menu, which is what Andre doesn't like, because it covers more of the screen. But we consider that an advantage, honest :) so it will never change.

Hmmm. Just playing devil's advocate here, because I personally prefer the cascading style and wouldn't consider using the Vista/Win7 style...

You did ask for input on how Classic Shell could be improved. I wonder how many other folks are like Andre and prefer the Vista/Win7 style? I doubt you really know since using Classic Shell with Win7 those people can always just shift-click the start orb and get the start menu style they want, the Win7 style, while still maintaining the other advantages that Classic Shell provides, right? What happens when you shift-click in Win8? (I have declined the opportunity to try Win8, since I'm happy with Win7, among many other reasons, so I don't know.) Anyway, I assume the people who prefer the Vista/Win7 style will choose Tihiy's solution for Win8 over Classic Shell, as I believe Andre does. I've wondered whether the two solutions can be used together and get the best of both worlds? You might also take a poll to see what kind of response you get to the possibility of choosing the Vista/Win7 style start menu as an option. I stress option since I'm sure there are others like me that would quit using Classic Shell if it did not offer the cascading start menu style.

Just something to think about.

Cheers and Regards

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Ask Ivo in the Classic Shell forums if he wants to make it work with Tihiy's excellent patch.The method of hooking CSM into Explorer is different on Windows 7 and 8, so for Windows 8 with Tihiy's patch, yet another way will have to developed. That may not be worth it, just to be able to use them both simultaneously. I personally think it's not worth it.

Edited by xpclient
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I thought that might be the case. :) And the idea of the poll?

Cheers and Regarads

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In spite of that skin, Classic Shell's All Programs menu does not open in-place/inline like the 7 Start Menu, which is what Andre doesn't like, because it covers more of the screen. But we consider that an advantage, honest :) so it will never change.

Wait a minute -- so that Vista/7-style skin for Classic Shell, simply changes the look and not the functionality?

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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In spite of that skin, Classic Shell's All Programs menu does not open in-place/inline like the 7 Start Menu, which is what Andre doesn't like, because it covers more of the screen. But we consider that an advantage, honest :) so it will never change.

Wait a minute -- so that Vista/7-style skin for Classic Shell, simply changes the look and not the functionality?

--JorgeA

Nope. After that skin, it will still be a flyout menu. That is its distinguishing factor from other hundred replacements and isn't going to change because Vista/7 style restricts all programs to a too limited area for browsing with mouse. Of course, if you wish you search, then it's similar but again, not the same. If there are MANY search results, Classic Shell can show them in multiple columns, no scrolling required. It's open source, you are free to modify it as you want and fork it. ;)

In fact, one unique feature of Classic Shell on Windows 7 and Vista is that it turns the Vista/7 style menu also into a flyout menu. Go to the "Windows Start Menu" tab and check the "Cascading All Programs menu" option.

Then it looks like this (Note: this is the Windows 7 menu which Classic Shell hooks to show "All Programs" with flyout style): Excuse the ugly grey menus, those you can make white or glass. :)

cascading_menu.png

Edited by xpclient
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Nope. After that skin, it will still be a flyout menu. That is its distinguishing factor from other hundred replacements and isn't going to change because Vista/7 style restricts all programs to a too limited area for browsing with mouse. Of course, if you wish you search, then it's similar but again, not the same. If there are MANY search results, Classic Shell can show them in multiple columns, no scrolling required. It's open source, you are free to modify it as you want and fork it. ;)

In fact, one unique feature of Classic Shell on Windows 7 and Vista is that it turns the Vista/7 style menu also into a flyout menu. Go to the "Windows Start Menu" tab and check the "Cascading All Programs menu" option.

Thanks, xpclient.

When I started using Windows 98 (up from 3.11), I thought that the flyout menu was pretty cool. (Although almost anything was better than Program Manager...) And I stil think it's neat to see them pop out the side like that.

But honestly, over the years it got to be a growing annoyance that the menus would cover up a big part of my screen, and I had to be so careful to put my mouse pointer over the exact spot lest I end up with an unwanted menu. So when the Vista menu made its appearance, I welcomed the change.

In my personal order of preference, it's the Vista/7 menu on the top rung, then the classic menu, and -- way, way below -- the Metro start screen. (Hmm, it just hit me that the Metro screen is a bit like Program Manager, with the links to the various programs displayed in a grid when you first boot into Windows. And, like with 3.11, in a Metro-only environment -- such as they're pushing with Windows RT -- when you have a program open you can't tell at a glance what other programs are open. But I must stop here, as my own rule is that this isn't a thread for comparing the Metro start screen to the start button/menu...)

What I like the best about ClassicShell is the separate feature that brings back most of the functionality of the IE status bar. :thumbup

--JorgeA

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I had to be so careful to put my mouse pointer over the exact spot lest I end up with an unwanted menu.

This particular annoyance is fixed in Classic Shell's implementation of the menu though. It can be set up by raising the "menu delay" option value such that the menus only open when clicked, instead of opening when hovered over. :) So they don't close either unless you click somewhere, they won't close just by hovering if you don't like that.

Edited by xpclient
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I gotta say I have been testing this on my domain and I really cannot see what advantages this has over Windows 7. I find takes longer to do the most simple tasks which is not a good sign at all.

plus desktop redirection coupled with the APPS makes the start screen a right old mess.

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dubsdj,

Are you referring to Windows 8, or to one of the Start Menu/Button alternatives? I'm guessing Win8, but just asking to make sure. Or maybe you're saying that Win8 can't be saved even with a revived Start Button. ;)

--JorgeA

Edited by JorgeA
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Added a listing and link for WinAero's Win+X Menu Editor. It's not exactly a Start Menu replacement, but it can be used to add features and functionality to the "power user" menu that pops up when you right-click in the lower left corner of the screen. For some users, this might be enough of a replacement.

--JorgeA

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