[bphlpt]

xpclient, on 03 October 2012 - 12:46 AM, said:

In spite of that skin, Classic Shell's All Programs menu does not open in-place/inline like the 7 Start Menu, which is what Andre doesn't like, because it covers more of the screen. But we consider that an advantage, honest so it will never change.

Hmmm. Just playing devil's advocate here, because I personally prefer the cascading style and wouldn't consider using the Vista/Win7 style...

You did ask for input on how Classic Shell could be improved. I wonder how many other folks are like Andre and prefer the Vista/Win7 style? I doubt you really know since using Classic Shell with Win7 those people can always just shift-click the start orb and get the start menu style they want, the Win7 style, while still maintaining the other advantages that Classic Shell provides, right? What happens when you shift-click in Win8? (I have declined the opportunity to try Win8, since I'm happy with Win7, among many other reasons, so I don't know.) Anyway, I assume the people who prefer the Vista/Win7 style will choose Tihiy's solution for Win8 over Classic Shell, as I believe Andre does. I've wondered whether the two solutions can be used together and get the best of both worlds? You might also take a poll to see what kind of response you get to the possibility of choosing the Vista/Win7 style start menu as an option. I stress option since I'm sure there are others like me that would quit using Classic Shell if it did not offer the cascading start menu style.

Just something to think about.

Cheers and Regards

[xpclient]

Ask Ivo in the Classic Shell forums if he wants to make it work with Tihiy's excellent patch.The method of hooking CSM into Explorer is different on Windows 7 and 8, so for Windows 8 with Tihiy's patch, yet another way will have to developed. That may not be worth it, just to be able to use them both simultaneously. I personally think it's not worth it.

This post has been edited by xpclient: 03 October 2012 - 02:57 AM

[bphlpt]

I thought that might be the case. And the idea of the poll?

Cheers and Regarads

[JorgeA]

xpclient, on 03 October 2012 - 12:46 AM, said:

In spite of that skin, Classic Shell's All Programs menu does not open in-place/inline like the 7 Start Menu, which is what Andre doesn't like, because it covers more of the screen. But we consider that an advantage, honest so it will never change.

Wait a minute -- so that Vista/7-style skin for Classic Shell, simply changes the look and not the functionality?

--JorgeA

This post has been edited by JorgeA: 03 October 2012 - 09:28 AM

[xpclient]

JorgeA, on 03 October 2012 - 09:26 AM, said:

xpclient, on 03 October 2012 - 12:46 AM, said:

In spite of that skin, Classic Shell's All Programs menu does not open in-place/inline like the 7 Start Menu, which is what Andre doesn't like, because it covers more of the screen. But we consider that an advantage, honest so it will never change.

Wait a minute -- so that Vista/7-style skin for Classic Shell, simply changes the look and not the functionality?

--JorgeA

Nope. After that skin, it will still be a flyout menu. That is its distinguishing factor from other hundred replacements and isn't going to change because Vista/7 style restricts all programs to a too limited area for browsing with mouse. Of course, if you wish you search, then it's similar but again, not the same. If there are MANY search results, Classic Shell can show them in multiple columns, no scrolling required. It's open source, you are free to modify it as you want and fork it.

In fact, one unique feature of Classic Shell on Windows 7 and Vista is that it turns the Vista/7 style menu also into a flyout menu. Go to the "Windows Start Menu" tab and check the "Cascading All Programs menu" option.

Then it looks like this (Note: this is the Windows 7 menu which Classic Shell hooks to show "All Programs" with flyout style): Excuse the ugly grey menus, those you can make white or glass.

This post has been edited by xpclient: 03 October 2012 - 02:04 PM

[JorgeA]

xpclient, on 03 October 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

Nope. After that skin, it will still be a flyout menu. That is its distinguishing factor from other hundred replacements and isn't going to change because Vista/7 style restricts all programs to a too limited area for browsing with mouse. Of course, if you wish you search, then it's similar but again, not the same. If there are MANY search results, Classic Shell can show them in multiple columns, no scrolling required. It's open source, you are free to modify it as you want and fork it.

In fact, one unique feature of Classic Shell on Windows 7 and Vista is that it turns the Vista/7 style menu also into a flyout menu. Go to the "Windows Start Menu" tab and check the "Cascading All Programs menu" option.

Thanks, xpclient.

When I started using Windows 98 (up from 3.11), I thought that the flyout menu was pretty cool. (Although almost anything was better than Program Manager...) And I stil think it's neat to see them pop out the side like that.

But honestly, over the years it got to be a growing annoyance that the menus would cover up a big part of my screen, and I had to be so careful to put my mouse pointer over the exact spot lest I end up with an unwanted menu. So when the Vista menu made its appearance, I welcomed the change.

In my personal order of preference, it's the Vista/7 menu on the top rung, then the classic menu, and -- way, way below -- the Metro start screen. (Hmm, it just hit me that the Metro screen is a bit like Program Manager, with the links to the various programs displayed in a grid when you first boot into Windows. And, like with 3.11, in a Metro-only environment -- such as they're pushing with Windows RT -- when you have a program open you can't tell at a glance what other programs are open. But I must stop here, as my own rule is that this isn't a thread for comparing the Metro start screen to the start button/menu...)

What I like the best about ClassicShell is the separate feature that brings back most of the functionality of the IE status bar.

--JorgeA

[xpclient]

JorgeA, on 03 October 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

I had to be so careful to put my mouse pointer over the exact spot lest I end up with an unwanted menu.

This particular annoyance is fixed in Classic Shell's implementation of the menu though. It can be set up by raising the "menu delay" option value such that the menus only open when clicked, instead of opening when hovered over. So they don't close either unless you click somewhere, they won't close just by hovering if you don't like that.

This post has been edited by xpclient: 04 October 2012 - 06:44 AM

[dubsdj]

I gotta say I have been testing this on my domain and I really cannot see what advantages this has over Windows 7. I find takes longer to do the most simple tasks which is not a good sign at all.
plus desktop redirection coupled with the APPS makes the start screen a right old mess.

[JorgeA]

dubsdj,

Are you referring to Windows 8, or to one of the Start Menu/Button alternatives? I'm guessing Win8, but just asking to make sure. Or maybe you're saying that Win8 can't be saved even with a revived Start Button.

--JorgeA

This post has been edited by JorgeA: 04 October 2012 - 03:50 PM

[JorgeA]

Added a listing and link for WinAero's Win+X Menu Editor. It's not exactly a Start Menu replacement, but it can be used to add features and functionality to the "power user" menu that pops up when you right-click in the lower left corner of the screen. For some users, this might be enough of a replacement.

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

Here's another option for booting straight to the Windows 8 Desktop.

It might also reduce the annoyance of having the Charms appear when you happen to leave the mouse pointer in the wrong place.

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

Wentutu Start Menu includes the ability to list frequently used items and to boot directly to the Desktop. Works on 32- and 64-bit systems.

--JorgeA

[Servelius]

JorgeA, on 10 October 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

Wentutu Start Menu includes the ability to list frequently used items and to boot directly to the Desktop. Works on 32- and 64-bit systems.

--JorgeA

Wentutu Start Menu has a serious bug with 'All Programs' list if your Windows 8 root drive is other than C. My Windows 7 is on drive C, my Windows 8 is on drive D; I've installed Wentutu on Win8 and it shows me 'All Programs' from my Windows 7.

And I don't like Wentutu menu start button.

[Servelius]

xpclient, on 03 October 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

Nope. After that skin, it will still be a flyout menu. That is its distinguishing factor from other hundred replacements and isn't going to change because Vista/7 style restricts all programs to a too limited area for browsing with mouse.

I like Classic Shell very much and I use it a lot in my both Windows 7 and 8. I'm dissapointed to hear that there won't be non-cascading all programs and search, why not? True that cascading menus was distinguishing factor in Classic Shell - but it was before Windows 8 RTM. Now it's a good idea to bring back the functionality of non-cascading start menu. Why, because it's more compact and handy and saves desk space which is quite useful sometimes. Both search results as well as all programs list could take both panes of the start menu, left and right, this way it would give user enough space (almost as much as cascades do), and thus it would be different from the original 7 start menu.

Why do I prefer Classic Shell overall, because it's very stable, fast, and does the job.

[JorgeA]

Servelius, on 14 October 2012 - 01:30 PM, said:

Wentutu Start Menu has a serious bug with 'All Programs' list if your Windows 8 root drive is other than C. My Windows 7 is on drive C, my Windows 8 is on drive D; I've installed Wentutu on Win8 and it shows me 'All Programs' from my Windows 7.

Thanks for the bug report! Did you notify the author? Maybe he will fix it.

Has anybody else experienced this issue?

--JorgeA

[xpclient]

Servelius, on 14 October 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

It's a good idea to bring back the functionality of non-cascading start menu. Why, because it's more compact and handy and saves desk space which is quite useful sometimes. Both search results as well as all programs list could take both panes of the start menu, left and right, this way it would give user enough space (almost as much as cascades do), and thus it would be different from the original 7 start menu.

Why do I prefer Classic Shell overall, because it's very stable, fast, and does the job.

Making Classic Shell more compact is easy. Make the menu single column from "Menu Look" tab. Reduce main menu width to 20, sub-menu width to 30. On my laptop, at just 1280 x 800, it takes up 1/3 (33%) of the screen. To make it further compact, check "Small icons" on the Skin tab. It can easily be made narrower than the Windows 7 Start Menu. The only space it takes more than the Windows 7 menu is the block indicated in red. I don't think that's too large a part of the screen. And that's just compared to default height of Windows 7 Start Menu. If you enable more items in your Windows 7 Start Menu, it can grow taller too. If this is not enough to make folks happy, then there is always Start8.

This post has been edited by xpclient: 14 October 2012 - 09:36 PM

[Servelius]

JorgeA, on 14 October 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

Servelius, on 14 October 2012 - 01:30 PM, said:

Wentutu Start Menu has a serious bug with 'All Programs' list if your Windows 8 root drive is other than C. My Windows 7 is on drive C, my Windows 8 is on drive D; I've installed Wentutu on Win8 and it shows me 'All Programs' from my Windows 7.

Thanks for the bug report! Did you notify the author? Maybe he will fix it.

Has anybody else experienced this issue?

--JorgeA

I did, I reported the bug and suggested a few options, but the author wouldn't reply.

If your Windows 8 is on drive other than C, you'll see what I mean, Wentutu can't see other drives.

[Servelius]

xpclient, on 14 October 2012 - 06:12 PM, said:

Making Classic Shell more compact is easy. Make the menu single column from "Menu Look" tab. Reduce main menu width to 20, sub-menu width to 30. On my laptop, at just 1280 x 800, it takes up 1/3 (33%) of the screen. To make it further compact, check "Small icons" on the Skin tab. It can easily be made narrower than the Windows 7 Start Menu. The only space it takes more than the Windows 7 menu is the block indicated in red. I don't think that's too large a part of the screen. And that's just compared to default height of Windows 7 Start Menu. If you enable more items in your Windows 7 Start Menu, it can grow taller too. If this is not enough to make folks happy, then there is always Start8.

Thanks for your reply, @xpclient.



Still it would be great if clicking on 'All Programs' would expand to the entire start menu area instead of cascading, optionally, like this, all handy in one pane and witb lots of space, very elegant:



Cascades are great, but adding variety is always a big plus.

As for why not choosing other projects like Start8, I very much like the speed and the stability of classic shell, it's really handy. I'm using it in 8 with a hotkey to invoke and without a start button at all. If I end its process in device manager, it doesn't stop working unlike others' menus that fail. Classic Shell pops-up instantly and even offers me sounds, as well as tons of customizations - unlike other start projects. Good, fast and customizable search, bugs free, so why should I switch to Start8?

Oh, and not the least, classic shell is free.

[DosProbie]

Been using Ex7forW8 and works great, only thing is where is the Jump List? Post if you know..
thanks, DosProbie

[Tripredacus]

DosProbie, on 17 October 2012 - 04:19 AM, said:

Been using Ex7forW8 and works great, only thing is where is the Jump List? Post if you know..
thanks, DosProbie

Tihiy has abandoned Ex7forW8 tool, so I doubt it will ever be fixed.