[JorgeA]

xpclient, on 11 November 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

JorgeA, on 11 November 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

I dunno, to me it looks different enough from Classic Shell
Which "Win8 Start Button" do you have in mind? The one that we have listed doesn't look anything like Classic Shell:
Win8StartButton_6.jpg

Then you haven't been customizing Classic Shell to see how much it can be customized. Anyways, here's the EULA for Viva and here's the one for Win8 Start Button.

The Win8 StartButton that you linked to, doesn't appear to be the same product as the Win8StartButton that's on the list. Different website, different people (Torch Media vs. Quadsoft), different look, even a different language (!).

There's just a slight difference in the spacing within the name. Given the outrages of Windows 8, I guess it was inevitable that we'd end up with a naming conflict like this sooner or later. There's only so many ways to refer to the same thing.

I won't be listing Win8 StartButton, as it seems to be a straight, unmodified borrowing of Classic Shell, nothing new. What's different is that they package a browser and media player along with Classic Shell, but we're not interested in those applications here.

Regarding the Viva Start Menu, the EULA says that

Quote

The Initial Developer is Ivo Beltchev. Portions created by the Initial Developer are Copyright © 2010-2012, Ivo Beltchev. Viva Start Menu contains Classic Shell, which is licensed under the MIT License.

...which leaves open the possibility that they have "built upon" Classic Shell rather than adopting it intact like the Win8 StartButton folks apparently did. The question would then be, how much did they change it, and are the changes enough for us to be able to treat it as a different product?

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

Tripredacus, on 12 November 2012 - 08:29 AM, said:

xpclient, on 11 November 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

Then you haven't been customizing Classic Shell to see how much it can be customized. Anyways, here's the EULA for Viva and here's the one for Win8 Start Button.

I see in both of those EULAs, they are written by the same person! Why have competing products like that?

I think what's happening is that both Win8 StartButton and the Viva Start Menu are based on Classic Shell by Ivo Beltchev. The EULA for the Win8 StartButton gives complete, unqualified credit to Ivo, while the EULA for the Viva Start Menu (see my reply to xpclient just above) says that "portions are created" by Ivo, which makes it sound like they took Classic Shell and then modified it in some way.

The Win8 StartButton doesn't seem to offer anything new or different, so there's no reason to add it to the list. But for the Viva Start Menu, for the purposes of our thread the question becomes whether they modified it enough to warrant a listing of their own.

--JorgeA

[Laurence]

The following is one obvious difference in the Viva Start Menu (as of Nov.12th. 1:44 PM AST, found near the bottom of its Download page):
---------------------------------------------------------------
Download Information:

Download 64-bit Version

Download 34-bit Version
--------------------------------------------------------------

The "34-bit Version" must be for a newly released, and as yet unpublicized, OS. ;-)

regards,
Laurence

[CharlotteTheHarlot]

Laurence, on 12 November 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

The "34-bit Version" must be for a newly released, and as yet unpublicized, OS. ;-)

Reminds me of long, long ago when some folks insisted 8088 systems had to be better than the 8086.

[Tripredacus]

CharlotteTheHarlot, on 12 November 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

Laurence, on 12 November 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

The "34-bit Version" must be for a newly released, and as yet unpublicized, OS. ;-)

Reminds me of long, long ago when some folks insisted 8088 systems had to be better than the 8086.

Its sad in a comedic way, but I looked up 34bit CPU on google...

Quote

About 288,000 results (0.38 seconds)

[JorgeA]

OK, if there are no objections outstanding, then I'll put the Viva Start Menu on the list.

--JorgeA

[Laurence]

Here is another:

StartMenuPlus8

[JorgeA]

Laurence, on 14 November 2012 - 07:56 AM, said:

Here is another:

StartMenuPlus8

Good find, thanks very much. I'll add it to the list.

--JorgeA

[Laurence]

And another:

Tweaks.com Boot to Desktop for Windows 8

[JorgeA]

Laurence, on 14 November 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

And another:

Tweaks.com Boot to Desktop for Windows 8

Steve Sinchak is a known quantity -- I have a book by him.

This little service could be put to work together with his Start for Windows 8 button for a complete experience.

Thanks very much for digging some more!

--JorgeA

This post has been edited by JorgeA: 14 November 2012 - 10:57 PM

[Laurence]

@ JorgeA

You're most welcome. I too am thankful for you having provided a place and listing of all the many others to choose from; and hopefully lots more to come. And who knows, maybe the 'perfect' one will come along for the individual user.

Here is another one which provides a button and minimal Start Menu experience:

HP Quick Start Application

Although my Desktop PC is a HP brand, chances are it will also work on other PC's. But just in case, remember I did say, chances are.

regards,
Laurence

[JorgeA]

Laurence, on 15 November 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

@ JorgeA

You're most welcome. I too am thankful for you having provided a place and listing of all the many others to choose from; and hopefully lots more to come. And who knows, maybe the 'perfect' one will come along for the individual user.

Here is another one which provides a button and minimal Start Menu experience:

HP Quick Start Application

Although my Desktop PC is a HP brand, chances are it will also work on other PC's. But just in case, remember I did say, chances are.

regards,
Laurence

This is fantastic! It'll be interesting to see if other major PC manufacturers come out with their own versions of the Start Menu + Button.

Anybody who has a non-HP computer and tries this one, let us know if it worked for you.

--JorgeA

[tomasz86]

One more Start Menu from Poland:

http://www.sgjps.com...StartForDesktop

[MagicAndre1981]

Will Microsoft Restore the Start Menu to Windows 8?
http://www.cio-today...W6X&full_skip=1

[JorgeA]

tomasz86, on 16 November 2012 - 06:09 AM, said:

One more Start Menu from Poland:

http://www.sgjps.com...StartForDesktop

Thanks tomasz86, we'll keep an eye on it.

I clicked on the link for "English" but it still came up in Polish so I can't interpret the installation instructions. Do you know if there is a language choice when installing StartForDesktop?

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

MagicAndre1981, on 16 November 2012 - 11:08 AM, said:

Will Microsoft Restore the Start Menu to Windows 8?
http://www.cio-today...W6X&full_skip=1

MagicAndre,

This is a very hopeful article! Ballmer would have to instruct JLG to revive the Start Button+Menu as a condition of getting to replace Sinofsky.

If it's OK with you (and the mods), I'm going to link to this article over in the Deeper Impressions thread.

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

8Start Button is a further metroish Start Menu, available in either a free or a more highly customizable paid version.

--JorgeA

This post has been edited by JorgeA: 16 November 2012 - 09:11 PM

[JorgeA]

Here's another utility to bypass the Start Screen and boot straight to the Desktop.

--JorgeA

This post has been edited by JorgeA: 16 November 2012 - 09:10 PM

[Laurence]

JorgeA, thanks for the update. Slowly but surely the count is increasing.

I see that the download webpage of Viva Start Menu has been updated: it now correctly states 64-bit and "32-bit" version availability. I just had a look at your listing on the first page, and I gather there must have been outstanding objections to having the Viva Start Menu included. Nonetheless, I have no doubt that more will yet surface. . . at least until MS does a turn-about-face. (However just in case MS persists in stubbornly willing not to do such a thing, I am not going to hold my breath. )

regards,
Laurence

[JorgeA]

Laurence, on 17 November 2012 - 08:01 AM, said:

JorgeA, thanks for the update. Slowly but surely the count is increasing.

I see that the download webpage of Viva Start Menu has been updated: it now correctly states 64-bit and "32-bit" version availability. I just had a look at your listing on the first page, and I gather there must have been outstanding objections to having the Viva Start Menu included. Nonetheless, I have no doubt that more will yet surface. . . at least until MS does a turn-about-face. (However just in case MS persists in stubbornly willing not to do such a thing, I am not going to hold my breath. )

Laurence,

There haven't been any new objections to adding the Viva Start Menu. I was waiting to hear back from xpclient (or anybody else who wanted to weigh in) on the thoughts that I offered to what he said, but it's been several days so I guess we can go ahead and put that one on the list, too.

Regarding whether MS will change their minds, maybe somebody will cut-and-paste our whole list and post it on a Microsoft forum page to embarrass them...

--JorgeA