Multiboot USB issues

[whocares02]

More preferable was something like this:

grub4dos-cd -> som mini-linux -> usual access to router-shares -> booting iso (residing on router) with grub4dos and firadisk -> installing windows.

I know it's possible just using grub to boot something else direktly out of a running linux.
Problem is: connection might get lost doing so. RAMDisk might be the only option (if possible). However, large ISOs (DVDs) would take a lot of time until transmitted and loaded.

Edited April 6, 2014 by whocares02

[submix8c]

I give up! You even posted before my Edit was complete.

Fine - this is Burger King - Have It Your Way.

[whocares02]

What? I don't get anything. I'm talking about NAS: Network attached storage. I believe PXE-boot is technically interesting. However, when it's neccesary setting up another computer, working as server, the whole concept of NAS is lost. It's not a replacement for inserting a CD then.

Edited April 6, 2014 by whocares02

[jaclaz]

What? I don't get anything. I'm talking about NAS: Network attached storage. I believe PXE-boot is technically interesting. However, when it's neccesary setting up another computer, working as server, the whole concept of NAS is lost. It's not a replacement for inserting a CD then.

Well, if you take some time on the mentioned reboot.pro sub-forum, you may find out that there are other (faster) transfer protocols than TFTP, like - as an example - like http, or iSCSI or AoE.

Since in any case *something* must be "served" of course there must be a *server* running on the LAN.

A number of NAS devices/setups can obviously run such servers, though of course most "closed" commercial NAS units need to be modified in order to do so.

Your "new" idea:

More preferable was something like this:

grub4dos-cd -> som mini-linux -> usual access to router-shares -> booting iso (residing on router) with grub4dos and firadisk -> installing windows.

is more similar to the PING project (which is around since years):

http://ping.windowsdream.com/ping.html

Now, since a very good idea when installing a Windows is to have a local source, one could use a similar approach to download the.iso locally (or to make a local \I386 directory).

Alternatively one could "normally" boot a minimal PE from "local" and from it run either WINNT32 or - possibly - WINNTSETUP:

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/149612-winntsetup-v33/

Nowadays the limit is only the fantasy, though of course "complex" ways of booting install are "complex" and cannot be "simple".

"Simple" is booting from a USB stick and install from it (and it is normally much faster than CD/DVD), though stiil - personally - I like to have the "local" source, which BTW normally avoids (particularly on a machine that has not a CD/DVD drive the "Insert the Windows Install CD" message/show-stopper ).

jaclaz

[whocares02]

Ping looks interesting. Did I get it right that someone just needs to share an iso on network and ping finds it? Website doesn't provide too much informations. How is installation done? Does Ping copy the whole file first?

I think what I was actually looking for was some tool like firadisk but for network-connections. Makes no sense to me buying a Wifi-HDD to boot up another computer in addition. Why the Wifi-HDD then? Hard disk storage can be provided by some server as well.

Edited April 7, 2014 by whocares02

[jaclaz]

Ping looks interesting. Did I get it right that someone just needs to share an iso on network and ping finds it? Website doesn't provide too much informations. How is installation done? Does Ping copy the whole file first?

I think what I was actually looking for was some tool like firadisk but for network-connections. Makes no sense to me buying a Wifi-HDD to boot up another computer in addition. Why the Wifi-HDD then? Hard disk storage can be provided by some server as well.

The "Windows installer" is actually WINNER, same approach than PING:

http://ping.windowsdream.com/winner.html

The procedure is simple enough (and also documented graphically):

http://ping.windowsdream.com/winner/doc/using.html

http://ping.windowsdream.com/winner/doc/using2.html

You can most probably do a "hybrid" between the "local DVD "and the "PXE booting"

But, as said, if you don't want to PXE boot (for which a PXE server is needed) you can normally boot to *any* local media, and then run any *environment* - locally capable of downloading the .iso (or the sysprepped disk image or *whatever*) and run the install.

Of course this makes no or little sense, if you anyway boot from local, you can boot to *something* that also contains the install sources.

The only exception "target" may be an extremely small number of systems, without CD/DVD drive and that cannot boot from USB sticks bigger than 256 or 512 Mb, quite a rare case.

jaclaz

[whocares02]

Using winner means creating a custom winner-disk. No no no, I'm too lazy for this.

you can normally boot to *any* local media, and then run any *environment* - locally capable of downloading the .iso (or the sysprepped disk image or *whatever*) and run the install.

Correct me if I'm wrong but usually you can't, since many setups won't find the virtual-CD-source, especially when it's a network-share. Even when downloading an image to local disk before setup - let's say of linux - it should loose the grub-mount-point as soon as the kernel is loaded.

Stick as an alternative is a possible way of course. Just wanted to know if there was a network-way, usable as easy as plugging a stick.

[jaclaz]

Stick as an alternative is a possible way of course. Just wanted to know if there was a network-way, usable as easy as plugging a stick.

And as said, there is, it is called PXE booting, it needs a PXE server, it is not the easiest thing in the world, but nowadays is doable with very little effort.

If you boot form a "local" device, you need a "local" device, if you want to boot from network (remotely), you need a server to serve the boot-image, you cannot expect that by sheer magic images are served through the network.

Nothing prevents you from making however a USB stick (or even a CD/DVD) to boot a minimal system with just a PXE server (on the "remote" machine), and then normally PXE boot the "local" machine, but again it is overkill.

Consider that any "other" machine in the network can be (even temporarily) a PXE server, i.e. you do not need to run a "dedicated" server, just a working TFTP+PXE+BINL setup on *any* machine on the network, you just start the TFTP32+BINL and/or "Serva" and/or (advised) "Tiny PXE Server" program, then go to the machine to which you want to make the new install and PXE boot it.

jaclaz

[whocares02]

No thank you. Seems what I was looking for doesn't exist. Seems I'm the only one missing a client-only based solution. Hoped for a discussion with other interested people.

ou cannot expect that by sheer magic images are served through the network.

well, I can...because with wifi-hdds they are served "magically" through a network. It just seems there's just no (TSR-) loader being able installing from them. It's not your fault jaclaz. It just didn't get developed up to now. I of course also can't expect tools like grub4d0s or firadisk. Nevertheless they do exist, hence my question.

[jaclaz]

No thank you. Seems what I was looking for doesn't exist. Seems I'm the only one missing a client-only based solution. Hoped for a discussion with other interested people.

ou cannot expect that by sheer magic images are served through the network.

well, I can...because with wifi-hdds they are served "magically" through a network. It just seems there's just no (TSR-) loader being able installing from them. It's not your fault jaclaz. It just didn't get developed up to now. I of course also can't expect tools like grub4d0s or firadisk. Nevertheless they do exist, hence my question.

But again, most probably they do exist, in the form of a (minimal) OS, i.e. a PE or a Linux that can boot locally and access the (wi-fi) network.

If you think about it (and supposing you are by now familiar with recent grub4dos releases), grub4dos is now a (very minimal) OS that can even run batch files and specific programs, and even NTLDR or BOOTMGR are in themselves a (still minimal and additionally non-interactive) mini-OS.

So, the whole point only becomes the size of such minimal OS.

I would estimate it in around 30 Mb or so for a PE 1.x and in around 150 Mb or so for a PE 2.x/3.x/4.x/5.x, and possibly below the 30 Mb for a Linux.

jaclaz

[whocares02]

How would you force such a background-OS not getting aborted as soon as some other environment gets chain-loaded? Let's say you boot-linux and call BartsPE, using grub. I suggest bartspe would just hard-reset linux as soon as it's graphical interfaces pops up. However you need to keep the network-connection in background, when bartspe-iso is streamed from a NAS.

[jaclaz]

How would you force such a background-OS not getting aborted as soon as some other environment gets chain-loaded? Let's say you boot-linux and call BartsPE, using grub. I suggest bartspe would just hard-reset linux as soon as it's graphical interfaces pops up. However you need to keep the network-connection in background, when bartspe-iso is streamed from a NAS.

Booting Linux to boot a BartPE from the network makes no sense, you can boot the BartPE locally instead of the Linux (though you can use the Linux to download *something* from the network, store it in a RAM area and then boot the *whatever* is in this RAM area).

We were talking of installing a NT based OS.

As said, the procedure in this case would be to make (which is BTW "good" practice) a "local" copy of the install files (still if we are talking of NT/2K/XP/2003, later systems may differ).

A minimal PE can access a "network drive" just fine, and a tool like WINNTSETUP:

http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/149612-winntsetup-v33-v34-beta-1/

should work fine using as "source" a network drive.

jaclaz

[whocares02]

You just wrote:

But again, most probably they do exist, in the form of a (minimal) OS, i.e. a PE or a Linux that can boot locally and access the (wi-fi) network.

Now you tell me:

Booting Linux to boot a BartPE from the network makes no sense,

It doesn't matter if booting BartPE makes sense or not. Problem is always the same: On a NAS, holding several Isos (e.g. WinXP, BartPE, PartedMagic, Ubuntu, Win7, Antivir-disk and whatever-else) none of them can be booted from a miniOS since they're all not be able to continue running from RAMDisk or holding the network-connection the miniOS created. As soon as a new OS-environment is loaded, all pre-configurations are forgotten. Exception is firadisk, though it's only for ramdisks.

The "good practice" you describe is very slow and not usefull for DVD-Isos. Only new computers have 4GB RAM or more. Loading/transferring-time was unbearable with pre-loading such an iso.

[jaclaz]

Well,

a good practice is a "good practice".

In the case of deciding to have not a PXE server (not a WinAoE, nor a iScsi one) in the network it becomes "only possible practice".

jaclaz

[whocares02]

yes, seems to me as well.