[r2d24me]

How to make restorable backup CDs of Win98SE?

So I have just completed building a Win98SE system on a second disk (80 GB) with all driver updates, IE-6, DirectX 9c, MediaPlayer 9, the unofficial 98SE service pack 2.1a. All of that uses 882 MB.
Before I go further;
* re-attach my primary disk (500 GB) which contains MS-WinXP, Solaris 10, and RHEL-6 and modify grub to have boot option for 98.
* load all my old games into 98SE.

How do I make a restorable backup copy of this virgin Win98SE to CDs for a fast restore of my working system?

I read...
http://www.msfn.org/...-same-computer/
...and, wow! I wish I had known that in my earlier life, great stuff.

But it is for backup from partition-to-partition, or disk-to-disk. I want something that will backup a disk across many CDs, be self-bootable, ask me what disk letter to restore to, and it will re-image drive back to state it was when backup was made.

What are my options?

[jaclaz]

r2d24me, on 13 October 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

But it is for backup from partition-to-partition, or disk-to-disk. I want something that will backup a disk across many CDs, be self-bootable, ask me what disk letter to restore to, and it will re-image drive back to state it was when backup was made.

What are my options?

If you don't want it to also make some coffee , and you can use some temporary space (possibly as much as the original partiton occupied size) maybe a simple use of
http://www.partition-saving.com/
to make an image in a number of suitable sized files and then "burn" these latter ones to CD/DVD would do.

jaclaz

[Fredledingue]

Why do you want to complicate your life with artition back ups?
Just copy the Windows folder to another location (HDD, DVD, whatever).

When you need to restore your system, recopy the whole thing in DOS mode or Boot disc Dos mode if your back up is on a CD-R/DVD.

[coolman]

Well I use something called Norton Ghost 2003. It creates and saves backed-up partition images as a .GHO extension. You just open Ghost and choose that file to backup from (From Image) then it will overwrite the entire C: drive (or wherever you have Windows installed) with the partition copy within the image (You can see what is in this image with Ghost Explorer which is included). Just remember to save this to a removable media such as a CD/DVD, floppy, etc. just in case something goes wrong on the hard drive. You can create a bootable CD. If it doesn't work, boot into DOS and run Ghost. The application runs in both Windows and DOS. For better results run Ghost in DOS because if you run it in Windows it doesn't automatically reboot your system and sometimes when you exit, you can get a BSoD and sometimes when you reboot you get invalid system disk. When you try to reinstall 98SE, ScanDisk will throw up a bunch of errors that the files are corrupted and the file size is incorrect which it can fix, but you have to endlessly click the Fix It button, which takes time. Even if you use the /is switch when running the setup program it will still throw up errors saying that setup cannot run until these errors are fixed. If what I just explained happens then boot to the DOS prompt then run the backup from there. You will still be able to run the program because the errors only apply to the files in the \WINDOWS and \WINDOWS\SYSTEM directories most of the time. I hope this helps.

This post has been edited by coolman: 11 December 2012 - 08:00 PM

[vinifera]

as coolman above said, norton ghost is the way
I used it too back then in win 98/ME days

it even supports compression of backup image (its not bad)

This post has been edited by vinifera: 13 December 2012 - 03:38 AM

[duffy98]

I also back up the earlier comments about using Ghost as a backup. I have used Ghost 2003 (released September 2002) but these days I use Ghost 8.3 (December 2005) as it had a few improvements, mainly the ability to create an image file that is larger than 2 GB ... but Ghost 2003 would work just fine. I still use Ghost 8.3 for my XP backups. It took me awhile to understand how to use Ghost ... after searching around for months on Google for many tutorials, I finally found one that made it easy to understand ... step by step and I finally had my first successful Windows 98SE backup. I finally could sleep at night knowing ... as much as I like to try out new software programs ... if something goes crazy, I can be back up running again in minutes. It may take awhile to figure Ghost out, maybe not ... I didn't understand a few things or steps until I found the right tutorial that went into more detail for "dummies"such as myself. I use Ghost strictly in DOS before anything starts up in Windows ... everything (Ghost) on a CD.

from Wikipedia:

Norton Ghost 2003

Norton Ghost 2003, a consumer edition of Ghost, was released on September 6, 2002. Available as an independent product, Norton Ghost 2003 was also included as a component of Norton SystemWorks 2003 Professional. A simpler, non-corporate version of Ghost, Norton Ghost 2003 does not include the Console but has a Windows front-end to script Ghost operations and create a bootable Ghost diskette (third-party CD burning software can be used to create a bootable Ghost CD based on a bootable Ghost diskette). The machine still needs to reboot to the Virtual Partition, but the user doesn′t need to interact with DOS. Symantec deprecated LiveUpdate support for Norton Ghost 2003 in early 2006.


Symantec Ghost Solution Suite 1.1 (Ghost 8.3)

Ghost Solution Suite 1.1 was released December 2005. Some of the new features include the ability to create an image file that is larger than 2 GB (in Ghost 8.2 or earlier versions, such image files are automatically split into two or more segments, so that each segment has a maximum size of 2 GB), more comprehensive manufacturing tools, and the ability to create a universal boot disk. Ghost Solution Suite is a bundle of an updated version of Ghost, Symantec Client Migration (a user data and settings migration tool) and the former PowerQuest equivalent, DeployCenter (using PQI images).

...

This post has been edited by duffy98: 13 December 2012 - 04:39 AM

[jaclaz]

Well, Norton Ghost was a Commercial program and it is not anymore available since years from Symantec.

At the time there weren't many Freeware programs capable to do the same things Norton Ghost did, right now there are several ones, one has been already mentioned, several more are listed here:
http://www.911cd.net...showtopic=16534
http://www.msfn.org/...aging-software/

It may be possible to buy a license for Norton Ghost 8.3 on e-bay or similar, though.
The "reference" for all things "Norton Ghost related" is this site/board.
http://ghost.radified.com/

jaclaz

This post has been edited by jaclaz: 13 December 2012 - 04:43 AM

[duffy98]

Thanks jaclaz for bringing the Ghost Radified site back into my memory ... I was there back in 2006 and have everything I found burned to a CD someplace. I forgot about the site ... not having been there in 6 years. Also was going to mention, I got my Ghost program from eBay. As you said, there were not many freeware programs available for backups and I never had luck in trying to get a good Windows restore after a problem ... I bought a few ... Power Quest and such but Ghost was the best for me.

...

[Sfor]

The simplest system is to make copies of Windows and Program Files folders. Quite often I do keep such copies, but with different folder names.

In case I do need to switch between main and saved windows copies all I have to do is:
- Boot to clean DOS
- start a DOS based LFN driver DOSLFNMS.COM
- Rename the windows and program files folders to some other.
- Rename the backup folders to windows and program files.
- Reboot the system.

It is possible to do it with DOS batch, as well.

If the computer does have a different OS installed, it is simpler to switch between windows copies by renaming the folders using the other OS.

I'm often keeping a few different versions of Windows 98 while experimenting with drivers applicactions or hardware.

This post has been edited by Sfor: 13 December 2012 - 05:52 AM

[jaclaz]

May I remind everyone the OP request?

r2d24me, on 13 October 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

How do I make a restorable backup copy of this virgin Win98SE to CDs for a fast restore of my working system?

I read...
http://www.msfn.org/...-same-computer/
...and, wow! I wish I had known that in my earlier life, great stuff.

But it is for backup from partition-to-partition, or disk-to-disk. I want something that will backup a disk across many CDs, be self-bootable, ask me what disk letter to restore to, and it will re-image drive back to state it was when backup was made.

What are my options?

jaclaz

[LostInSpace2012]

my recommendation

(1) Buy Windows ME off ebay for $25.

(2) download the following programs:

Internet Explorer 6
Windows Media Player 9
Directx 9.0c redistributable (there is a date cut-off for Windows 9x computers, you'd need an older build of 9.0c from a few years ago*)
Microsoft Installer 2.0 (just recently removed from Microsoft's Webpage)
ImgBurn 2.x

(3) use ImgBurn to make an ISO file of the Windows ME disk

(4) proceed to copy Windows ME .iso file to as many blank CD's as needed -- I'm currently up to six back-up copies. Just for the heck of it... who knows, I may have to give one to somebody. The more the merrier.

(5) Copy the Original Installation files of all your other programs and games to USB drives (sorry, only possible with Windows ME) or to data CD's.

repeat step 5 as many times as needed.

I know, it's not as pretty as making one huge, gigantic, ready-made, ready-to-go, all-in-one, copy of your Windows 98 dream machine. But since you're dealing with Windows 98..... well.

Coolman said:

Quote

For better results run Ghost in DOS because if you run it in Windows it doesn't automatically reboot your system and sometimes when you exit, you can get a BSoD and sometimes when you reboot you get invalid system disk. When you try to reinstall 98SE, ScanDisk will throw up a bunch of errors that the files are corrupted and the file size is incorrect which it can fix, but you have to endlessly click the Fix It button, which takes time. Even if you use the /is switch when running the setup program it will still throw up errors saying that setup cannot run until these errors are fixed. If what I just explained happens then boot to the DOS prompt then run the backup from there. You will still be able to run the program because the errors only apply to the files in the \WINDOWS and \WINDOWS\SYSTEM directories most of the time

^And this doesn't bother you?

Any time I get an error while installing Windows I promptly abort the installation, quickly reformat the computer and begin again. I figure once the installation has an error, I'm not going to waste more time, I'm going to start fresh again. That's why I don't like these Norton Ghost things. I can backup files by myself, a little more work and time, but you know that old saying, "the bigger they are, the harder they fall."

Well, it should be "the harder they fail." The more they overtake the plumbing, the easier it is to stop-up the drain.

I think it's a better idea to create backups in smaller, more managable chunks. That way if anything goes wrong, you can at least trouble shoot and narrow down the problems. One chunk can be the Windows CD itself, unmodified, clean, not tampered with. The next chunk could be a data CD of just your games, perhaps in the original zip files. Zip files can be tested for errors individually, this way you can be certain your files are intact, or where the error is. The next "managable chunk" could be a data CD just of your software programs or drivers. Again, the original installation files will help to ensure that your programs aren't corrupted and if they are, you'll at least have a backup.

Thanks, but no thanks, Norton.

Duffy98 said:

Quote

as much as I like to try out new software programs ... if something goes crazy, I can be back up running again in minutes

Windows ME solved this problem with "System File Protection." Windows 98 on the other hand, you really are at the mercy of any poorly written software program screwing up your entire computer.

This post has been edited by LostInSpace2012: 24 December 2012 - 02:51 AM

[dw2108]

Why not use a partition manager to cut a new partition, or resize and create a new small end partition for an entire system 98 SE storage vault, and run a restore bat from the autoexec.bat with the choice to cancel restore. Or use a virtual drive, and leave the HDD alone. Not all files need to be backed up, really very, very few. XCOPY is good for backup. Consider the subfolders of Windows and Program Files that really need the attention. If one has to format indeed to remove a bad install, then it is best to zero the drive, FDISK and format, because data was written inside the FAT.

SUBST allows a virtual drive to be used as a backup folder for restore. Perhaps hebalist has some other ideas which miay be of use, but this DOS/9x restore works for many.

Dave

[go98]

Another way is to make a modified setup-cd that fixes everything on install:

I have inserted selected updated files directly into the CAB-files, also extracted files from some CABs directly under d:\win98 (like all net-CABs) to avoid "insert CD" during install. A few files are hexedited to remove bugs, I have made a tiny program to fix the large ram-issue during first boot while installing + inserting files not originally included in Windows 98 into system folders. I have also edited the bootfiles used on the cd to give choices during start up.

So now I have the perfect setup-CD for my needs...

[submix8c]

go98, on 07 January 2013 - 11:50 AM, said:

Another way is to make a modified setup-cd that fixes everything on install: <snip>So now I have the perfect setup-CD for my needs...

jaclaz, on 13 December 2012 - 06:11 AM, said:

May I remind everyone the OP request?

[dencorso]

r2d24me, on 13 October 2012 - 10:07 PM, said:

How to make restorable backup CDs of Win98SE?

Why would anyone ever consider creating an *UNrestorable* backup of anything?
Or, more to the point, can an *UNrestorable* backup of something actually be described as a backup at all?