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Why you should avoid buying Windows 8


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#76
JorgeA

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I also had wanted something more out of Microsoft Bob. The strange thing about it is that it is designed to appear like a point and click adventure game. I knew it wasn't a game but I was always interested in the concept of it. I had no use for such a program as a kid as I didn't know anything about checkbooks or whatever else you could do in there. It probably made things more confusing for people than it needed to be. I'd expect that adults didn't like it because it looked too much like a game, and kids didn't like it because it looked like a game but wasn't.

I wonder how things would have turned out if Microsoft Bob had been MSFT's next official OS after, say, Windows 95. Not as an add-on, but built into the PC as the primary interface, just like Metro in Win8.

--JorgeA


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#77
JorgeA

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P.S. (and OT): Looking at your signature, in 2012 how could someone try out those Longhorn builds?


vmware 6.5 :P (not 6.05 but 6.5)

OK, but how does one go about getting a hold of Longhorn builds 3718, 4029, or 4066 today, in 2012?

--JorgeA

#78
Nuno Brito

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I wonder how things would have turned out if Microsoft Bob had been MSFT's next official OS after, say, Windows 95. Not as an add-on, but built into the PC as the primary interface, just like Metro in Win8.

It would be interesting indeed. I'd just think we'd see some other window manager surface to relevance for professional use without the toy'ish appearance. Still remember as a teenager when Win95 came up, that thing just looked hypnotizing and modern when compared to other options such as DOS and Win 3.x.

I wonder if teenagers are indeed feeling the same "wow" experience with Win8 nowadays.
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#79
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As a matter of fact I wasn't at the time that much impressed by the Start button of Windows 95/NT4.

I came (like everyone else) from Windows 3.11, but I had on most machines Norton Desktop that provided a nice "mac like" kind of interface to it.

What I remember as "astounding" was when i first installed (from floppies!) a Windows 95 Beta were the graphics of the installer, can you remember those bluish images that flickered on your screen at night hinting hidden future marvels such as the MS ergonomic keyboard, CD's and strange new cables, with the buzzing of the floppy drive accessing sectors chanting a lullaby in the background .... :rolleyes:
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of course, as often happens, things that happened when you were some twenty years younger tend to have an augmented aura of mystics when remembered....

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#80
Win2k3EE

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I loved Win95 OSR-2! In MS-DOS 6.22 or Win 3.11 I used Norton Commander to do my job and later on was DOS Navigator. I didn't like the Win 3.11 interface, but when I installed Windows 95 OSR-2 for the first time I was so freakin' excited about the look. I loved it!

For me, Win8 is just Win 3.11 on LCD display, that's it, nothing more.

#81
Tripredacus

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I wonder how things would have turned out if Microsoft Bob had been MSFT's next official OS after, say, Windows 95. Not as an add-on, but built into the PC as the primary interface, just like Metro in Win8.

It would be interesting indeed. I'd just think we'd see some other window manager surface to relevance for professional use without the toy'ish appearance. Still remember as a teenager when Win95 came up, that thing just looked hypnotizing and modern when compared to other options such as DOS and Win 3.x.

I wonder if teenagers are indeed feeling the same "wow" experience with Win8 nowadays.


I'm not sure if we will ever experience those days anymore. Computers are a lot more accessible and a way of life than it was say in the early 90s. Nearly everyone (here in the US) has a computer of some sort. Back in the early 90s, not everyone had computers and I recall that not even all schools had computers in them. It seems to me that computing even in the early 90s carried over a lot of the hobbyist feeling to it from the 80s. If I were a kid nowadays, I probably wouldn't see a computer as being some rare mystery machine that I wanted to learn more about, simply because they are everywhere and are no mystery.
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#82
MagicAndre1981

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I didn't like the Win 3.11 interface, but when I installed Windows 95 OSR-2 for the first time I was so freakin' excited about the look. I loved it!

For me, Win8 is just Win 3.11 on LCD display, that's it, nothing more.


same for me. I never liked 3.11 and was so excited about Win95 :thumbup
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#83
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people need to stop complaining cause they dont know how to use windows 8 new features and design. if you dont like to try new things then go back to XP !

People need to stop assuming that everybody who doesn't like Metro can't figure out how to use it.

#84
CharlotteTheHarlot

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I think it's by far the worst version not only of Windows, but of all their operating systems since MS DOS 3.x at least. It even makes Vista seem like a nice upgrade. If MS continues in that direction they're going to find themselves in big trouble pretty quickly.

We're all in trouble if this rumor proves true ...

Intel’s Haswell Could Be Last Interchangeable Desktop Microprocessors - Report. ( Xbit Labs 2012-11-22 )

Intel's Haswell May Be Last Interchangeable Desktop CPU? ( Tom's Hardware 2012-11-27 )

Intel to kill off desktop as we know it, reports claim ( CNet 2012-11-27 )

Intel's Broadwell Goes BGA Only: Implications for Future Desktops ( PC Perspective 2012-11-27 )

Could Intel kill off the removable CPU? ( NeoWin 2012-11-28 )


If the news proves true, this will have a huge impact on the PC industry, especially the DIY upgrade market. Users of mainstream desktops won't be able to manually swap out one processor for another if the original CPU fails or the user wants to upgrade. Instead, mainstream consumers will be stuck with whatever they bought, forced to upgrade the entire desktop at a higher price.

Xbit labs points out that because the Intel chips will be soldered into the motherboards, OEMs will be required to stockpile a large number of different mainboards with various features and dissimilar processors just to provide adequate choices for customers. This not only increases business risks for smaller desktop makers, but decreases the ability for motherboard manufacturers to differentiate themselves from their rivals.



What this means is that we have maybe one more tick-tock cycle and then it is all over. Done. Both halves of the Wintel duopoly will have successfully destroyed the home PC in their quest chasing after the fickle consumerist sales model. As I mentioned a while back, this happens in industry when the suits care more about Wall Street than Main Street and decide to go for the quick buck and quantity over quality. Rapid adoption of cheap digital cameras, LCD displays, etc, completely destroyed existing technologies even if they were equal or superior. We may have dodged a bullet with SSDs not wiping out HDDs ( well not yet ). But this trend is all around us. Apple lives in this universe and exploits it, Microsoft envies it.

IMHO this paradigm, catering to the lowest common denominator is at the root of much of the criticism of Windows 8, at least with me. We know when we see the move from quality to McDonalds mass consumerism. Nothing short of full and utterly thorough failure of Windows 8 and the complete sacking of their management and board of directors will slow this computer devolution. Unfortunately if Intel is getting onboard, even a normal Windows release will not matter.

EDIT: more links

EDIT2: update below at Post #129.

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 07 December 2012 - 01:34 AM.

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#85
JorgeA

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As a matter of fact I wasn't at the time that much impressed by the Start button of Windows 95/NT4.

How about that. My reaction when I first understood the Start Button was very different -- I remember thinking, "Wow, this Windows thing is starting to make sense now!!" Up until then, I didn't think that Windows (3.x) was any real improvement over MS-DOS, I tended to view it as just an added layer of crud and complexity. To my mind, the Start Button + Taskbar made a world of difference in terms of usability.

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#86
xpclient

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I am just so sad about where this whole thing is headed. Dumb consumers have no sense of quality and don't see the poor quality of the Windows 8 OS. They just want to run Apps. For them it's just a platform to run their Apps. And there is no other company in a leadership position to deliver quality OSes that advance computing. Whatever company tries to do their own commercial well-developed OS, Microsoft and Apple will drive them out of business with their patent lawsuits. American evil tech corporations suck for not delivering quality products in the constant money-sucking short life cycles. :(

Edited by xpclient, 02 December 2012 - 09:07 AM.

Impossible to run NT6 without third party fixes.


#87
Joseph_sw

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well, such american corporations indeed addicted to 'Planned Obsolescene'.
Whenever possible, they want the life cycles to be as short as possible.

Edited by Joseph_sw, 28 November 2012 - 11:49 AM.


#88
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They want the freakin' $$$! :thumbdown

#89
JorgeA

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I am just so sad about where this hold thing is headed. Dumb consumers have no sense of quality and don't see the poor quality of the Windows 8 OS. They just want to run Apps. For them it's just a platform to run their Apps. And there is no other company in a leadership position to deliver quality OSes that advance computing. Whatever company tries to do their own commercial well-developed OS, Microsoft and Apple will drive them out of business with their patent lawsuits. American evil tech corporations suck for not delivering quality products in the constant money-sucking short life cycles. :(

I'm slightly more hopeful than you. I think that there will always be a market for regular desktop PCs and the more-serious applications (not "apps"!) that they offer. The kind of PCs that you and I use may eventually be redesignated as "high-end devices," but as long as there are enough people out there who want to buy them, there'll be somebody willing to sell them.

If Microsoft gets bad enough and Apple no better, there's always Linux. If Windows continues on its current path to cretinization, I wouldn't be surprised to start seeing commercial PCs coming out with some user-friendly flavor of Linux preinstalled, and developers getting serious about putting out serious Linux-based alternatives to things like MS Office. (I've tried LibreOffice, and sorry to say it doesn't hold a candle to MS Office.)

That said, the Linux folks will really have to get off this model of issuing a new OS every six or twelve months, then supporting each edition for a couple of years at best. It's not money-sucking, instead it's time-sucking. I'm not into reinstalling every d*mn thing on my PC every few months just to stay current. :angry: That's definitely one area where Microsoft runs circles around the Linux community.

--JorgeA

#90
cruze1

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My main distro is linux and you'll get a technical support for 5 years just keep it updated as you do with windows.No reinstalling ever 6 M unless you just want to.
I also Have windows 8 on a drive ! What I find is a matter of preference . I do everthing with linux I can do with windows.

#91
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problem with linux is its not user friendly nor does it run games ment for windows :P
I'm also annoyed by the size of it, 5 months ago I wanted to give Kubuntu a try
that monster became bigger than Win7 installation, going over 5.5 GB on disk

isn't linux supposed to be LIGHTWEIGHT ?
If you want true Windows user experience
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#92
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problem with linux is its not user friendly nor does it run games ment for windows

Nah. That's not quite it IMO. Some distros have a WinXP-like desktop (which IMO isn't exactly great) while others have this Unity garbage that's really no better than Win8. Still, this is just a relatively minor point when you look at the big picture.

The real problem is that it doesn't run any of the important software Windows runs. I can totally forego Windows games and buy a console or something, but Linux just doesn't have the kind of software library Windows has (not even 1% of it). If Linux can meet someone's needs then his needs are extremely minimal, and chances are any OS would do in the first place (including Android and iOS). Businesses can't just stop using MS Office, Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Acrobat, Solidworks, AutoCAD, Inventor, Visual Studio, SQL Server and so on (WAY too much software to list). Having a XP-lookalike is one thing (I could live with that, even if it's a big step back from Win7) but losing virtually every single tool that makes a computer useful to me (besides of a web browser) totally kills it, without even considering all the Linux-related problems (it's no better than Windows, it merely has *different* problems)

Sadly, I'd pick the absolutely horrible win8 over it with no hesitation (and with something like Start8 it's a complete no-brainer). Sure, it's really awful, gets in your way, is less productive and all, but at least it still runs useful software (and tons of games too, if that's your thing) which is the entire point of even having a computer in the first place. Having a good OS but without the software library never works. Just look at the repeated failures like OS/2 or BeOS (both a good OS, with very little software to run, very much like Linux). OS X, which is the only real contender, just happens to run lots more software, including MS Office, all the Adobe apps and much more. It's not a coincidence. The OS is just there to run the software. If the software doesn't even exist then the OS is pointless.

By the way, if you guys think that Win8 is horrible, just wait for Windows Blue:
Windows Blue: Microsoft’s plan to release a new version of Windows every year
Windows Blue is Microsoft's future low-cost OS with yearly updates
It's even worse! :thumbup Just when you thought they couldn't possibly screw things further, Ballmer makes it happen once more! An awful phone OS on your desktop, but with forced yearly updates. They're already planning to make Windows 8 apps obsolete, and apps will also have to work with WP8. Windows apps (not traditional software) already suck hard, developing for them sucks too and makes no sense, and now they'll make it even worse. They just don't want us to bother I guess. I'm sure they'll still manage to make it even worse for people who still have a use for Windows (i.e. running desktop apps).

It's really hilarious to see them want to copy Apple so badly, getting everything wrong in the process and somehow destroying their main product, without creating anything that even rivals Apple's mobile offerings (and without gaining any traction in that market). They're just forcing something awful on everyone who are stuck with Windows (a great way to make everyone hate it)

TL;DR: Win7 is the new XP. Win8/Blue is the new MS Bob. They can't fire Ballmer soon enough.
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#93
CharlotteTheHarlot

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I'm slightly more hopeful than you. I think that there will always be a market for regular desktop PCs and the more-serious applications (not "apps"!) that they offer. The kind of PCs that you and I use may eventually be redesignated as "high-end devices," but as long as there are enough people out there who want to buy them, there'll be somebody willing to sell them.

But what form will they take? I can easily see this whole thing reverting back to the pre-clone era when there were PC's, XT's and AT's as your main choices. It took radical courage for the clones to stand up, knock off the BIOS copyright issue and penetrate and then overwhelm the relatively "closed" market. Differentiation is what is at risk here. Right now we are extremely lucky to be able to construct PC's of almost infinite variation, but if the big one, Intel, goes socketless ( like in the early days ), the other smaller fish like AMD are sure to follow and the motherboard revolution we are enjoying will definitely end. There is wicked competition currently between them to add all kinds of amazing onboard features, and I can't see this continuing if they must eat the cost of CPU replacement on failures and buggy chips. It will kill them dead. Each mobo company will fail one by one and the few remaining will just offer a few safe motherboard selections. Corporate big buyers will have no problem with this arrangement, they prefer simple ( Dell, etc ). The only losers are us. We must remember that Intel is great with CPU's but terrible with everything else. Their graphics still suck and their motherboards are a joke. Earlier this year Intel already took a baby step when they cheaped out on unlocked "K" Ivy Bridge processors using thermal paste instead of fitted spreaders. This rumor if it is true is a perfect parallel to the cynical Metro offering from Microsoft. Cut costs, jack up profit margins, aim for the sheeple. This is what they are teaching in business school now I guess.


It's really hilarious to see them want to copy Apple so badly, getting everything wrong in the process and somehow destroying their main product, without creating anything that even rivals Apple's mobile offerings (and without gaining any traction in that market). They're just forcing something awful on everyone who are stuck with Windows (a great way to make everyone hate it)

TL;DR: Win7 is the new XP. Win8/Blue is the new MS Bob. They can't fire Ballmer soon enough.

You got that right. I just saw a story somewhere that Foxcon is making the Surface. Welcome to MicroApple. They are so incredibly overwhelmed by Apple-envy. It is a mental illness. I have lost count of the amount of direct copies of Apple strategy. When we heard the rumors of Ballmer throwing fits ( and chairs ) and cursing out Google, and the memos about destroying Netscape ( a decade ago ), we were tipped off that there is unstable thinking going on in management. Even though they have a near-monopoly and highly profitable business they feel they must press further and squeeze more money out of the marketplace. They see us as cows ready to be milked, to the last drop. In a perfect world, there would be some way to pry the Windows XP source code out of their grubby hands and hand it off to the community to evolve, while they work on their silly Metro mobile dreams. Or they could be wise and give it away, an act of great benevolence like Ben Franklin with the Lightning Rod. Hey, I'm allowed to dream. :lol:

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#94
cruze1

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problem with linux is its not user friendly nor does it run games ment for windows :P
I'm also annoyed by the size of it, 5 months ago I wanted to give Kubuntu a try
that monster became bigger than Win7 installation, going over 5.5 GB on disk

isn't linux supposed to be LIGHTWEIGHT ?

Light weight would depend on just what you need .Can start at 691mb or on up .The more you add the more it grows just like window's . I went to Linux and had no problem what so ever with the learning curve . And I had been and windows user from windows 3.0 era . Gameing I am not into never have been But it can be done. I do a lot of pod casting and research with my computer. And maybe watch a netflix (yes) with the grand .So what I am saying You have Linux for Beginners -intermediate and novice.

#95
Tripredacus

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You got that right. I just saw a story somewhere that Foxcon is making the Surface.


That recent article about Foxconn was to make a Microsoft Windows 8 Phone. Its speculation that it might be called Surface Phone... It would be a bad move calling both the tablet and a phone Surface. Samsung gets away with it with their Galaxy products, but each one has a suffix like Tab or S or whatever. Microsoft has already caused confusion among consumers by have Windows 8 be the name of the OS for Phone, RT and desktop, and further confusion by having no suffix on the "Core" version of Windows 8.
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#96
JorgeA

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The real problem is that it doesn't run any of the important software Windows runs. I can totally forego Windows games and buy a console or something, but Linux just doesn't have the kind of software library Windows has (not even 1% of it). If Linux can meet someone's needs then his needs are extremely minimal, and chances are any OS would do in the first place (including Android and iOS). Businesses can't just stop using MS Office, Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Acrobat, Solidworks, AutoCAD, Inventor, Visual Studio, SQL Server and so on (WAY too much software to list). Having a XP-lookalike is one thing (I could live with that, even if it's a big step back from Win7) but losing virtually every single tool that makes a computer useful to me (besides of a web browser) totally kills it, without even considering all the Linux-related problems (it's no better than Windows, it merely has *different* problems)

Sadly, I'd pick the absolutely horrible win8 over it with no hesitation (and with something like Start8 it's a complete no-brainer). Sure, it's really awful, gets in your way, is less productive and all, but at least it still runs useful software (and tons of games too, if that's your thing) which is the entire point of even having a computer in the first place. Having a good OS but without the software library never works. Just look at the repeated failures like OS/2 or BeOS (both a good OS, with very little software to run, very much like Linux). OS X, which is the only real contender, just happens to run lots more software, including MS Office, all the Adobe apps and much more. It's not a coincidence. The OS is just there to run the software. If the software doesn't even exist then the OS is pointless.

I hear what you're saying. It's a chicken-and-egg type of situation: if there's no OS, there's nothing to develop applications for, but if there are no applications for it, then there's no point in running the OS.

The way I see this developing (so to speak) is that as the Windows user base becomes increasingly frustrated with the annoyances of Windows 8, and with the trend that Windows 8 represents, there will be a considerable element that will be ripe for the plucking (some of us here could be called the "leading edge" of that element). That will present an opportunity for enterprising developers or software companies to create versions of their programs that will work on (say) Linux. I could see Windows increasingly becoming an OS for those with simple needs, and Linux an OS for professionals and others who need or want more sophisticated applications. With the epileptic fit-inducing Metro Start Screen in mind, their slogan could become, "No distractions!" :)

--JorgeA

#97
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I could see Windows increasingly becoming an OS for those with simple needs, and Linux an OS for professionals and others who need or want more sophisticated applications.

+1 from me.

Unfortunately, I just get disappointed with the direction that Ubuntu went with Unity. I mean, so many years providing a rock star style of OS with things that were just great out of the box and now this awful window manager. So, not much better things are going on the other side of the fence. At least with OSX you know what to count and works solid as a unix alternative. Can't believe I'm writing a post to support Apple.

Edited by Nuno Brito, 29 November 2012 - 11:27 AM.

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#98
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I'll avoid buying Windows 8... just like I avoided buying Windows 2000, XP, Vista, and 7.

I'm still using my Windows ME computers that I've been stockpiling backup parts and hardware for. I have a growing surplus of Windows ME compatible things like SD card readers, bubble jet printers, monitors, CD-RW drives, and more.

As long as Google keeps offering their basic HTML email (still works with Netscape 9.6 or K-Meleon 1.5.4), I'll be satisfied.

My sister needed me to print something for her college class today. She emailed me a paper in PDF format. I opened the PDF document using Foxit Reader 2.3, and printed it using my 20 year old Canon bubble jet printer (BJ-200e).

I can still burn/rip audio CD's, I can still take pictures use my card readers to transfer my pictures. I can still use PhotoFiltre to batch convert them.

Why would I need Windows 7,8 or whatever? I can still do what I want.

As far as I'm concerned, the Windows interface, and basically operating system, reached it's zenith with Windows ME and 2000 Professional (take your pic, NTFS or FAT). It was all downhill from then.

I've avoided all the dumbed down versions that Windows has plagued the world with. It's funny, because now the Windows XP people are going to know how I felt, seeing that the future of computers was changing for the worse.

#99
vinifera

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well I'd miss watching HD videos :P
also you could give a win 2000 a chance, its not that bad, in fact its lightweight almoust as winME but much stable

I personally loved winME more than any 9x version, but when switched to 2000 (just to try it for few months) it was indeed welcomed change
If you want true Windows user experience
try Longhorn builds: 3718, 4029, 4066

#100
Tripredacus

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I could see Windows increasingly becoming an OS for those with simple needs, and Linux an OS for professionals and others who need or want more sophisticated applications.

+1 from me.


I think that once MS finally takes away the DOS prompt, that will be the last straw for many of us. Let's hope that day never happens.
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