[George27]

I have PLEXTOR IDE Model PX-870A I'd like to use it on a board that doesn't have an IDE slot. I've looked at some adapters I don't know how the rational or even if there is a difference in its application. What is the direction of implementation? Does the adapter fit in to the Plextor or does it fit on the board? It would be really helpful if you the reader could direct me to the proper adapter in the Newegg catalog. Thanks in advance.

This post has been edited by George27: 19 November 2012 - 12:58 PM

[jaclaz]

George27, on 19 November 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

I have PLEXTOR IDE Model PX-870A I'd like to use it on a board that doesn't have an IDE slot. I've looked at some adapters I don't know how the rational or even if there is a difference in its application. What is the direction of implementation? Does the adapter fit in to the Plextor or does it fit on the board? It would be really helpful if you the reader could direct me to the proper adapter in the Newegg catalog. Thanks in advance.

See this thread (more about SATA to IDE, but also talks about "bi-directional" ones):
http://www.msfn.org/...s-whichwhatwhy/

What you want is something like this (you have a "SATA only" motherboard - and presumably power supply connectors - and you want to install to it a IDE/ATA (ATAPI) CD/DVD drive, right?

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16812232004
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16812107112
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16812200787

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16812705119
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16812200196

the point is if you have a suitable power connector coming from the PSU, the one above uses a "floppy style" one AND if you have enough space "behind" the CD/DVD drive in the case, otherwise you will need this kind:
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16812197005
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16812186095
that takes very little space.

Anyway you have an IDE device that you want to connect to a SATA port, if you read attentively you will find (though the ide 2 sata or sata 2 ide is used indifferently) which one are the "right" ones for you.


jaclaz

[George27]

Thank you jaclaz!

[ricktendo]

Thanks, I may also be needing one of these soon

[tomasz86]

And be careful because some of those adapters are extremely crappy and buggy. I had one which initially seemed to work OK but the disk was suddenly disconnected in the system while copying files on and from it (therefore the adapter was unusable) and also another one which did work but the transfer was limited only to ATA33.

[jaclaz]

tomasz86, on 20 November 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

.... and also another one which did work but the transfer was limited only to ATA33.

... but to connect a CD/DVD drive I don't think that an ATA33 speed is a real bottleneck.....
http://en.wikipedia....#Transfer_rates
http://en.wikipedia....-ROM#Technology
http://en.wikipedia...._transfer_modes

jaclaz

[Tripredacus]

Are these adapters, or the drives themselves, smart enough not to allow the faster SATA speed to damage the drive? I seem to recall that some SCSI types using an adapter, connected to a newer or faster SCSI spec could actually damage the drive.

[jaclaz]

Tripredacus, on 20 November 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

Are these adapters, or the drives themselves, smart enough not to allow the faster SATA speed to damage the drive? I seem to recall that some SCSI types using an adapter, connected to a newer or faster SCSI spec could actually damage the drive.

There have never been AFAICR SCSI2SCSI "converters" (or at least they must have been peculiarly "rare"), I have only seen "passive" adapters (pinout converters) or "full fledged" ISA, MCA (SIC!) or PCI SCSI cards.
Additionally (and I do have my experience with mixing SCSI things ) I don't recall any similar issue , as far as I know you can "mix together" all kind of SCSI devices, of course performance may depend on the "slower" device....
It would be interesting if you could provide some data ....

jaclaz

[Tripredacus]

jaclaz, on 20 November 2012 - 09:46 AM, said:

Tripredacus, on 20 November 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

Are these adapters, or the drives themselves, smart enough not to allow the faster SATA speed to damage the drive? I seem to recall that some SCSI types using an adapter, connected to a newer or faster SCSI spec could actually damage the drive.

There have never been AFAICR SCSI2SCSI "converters" (or at least they must have been peculiarly "rare"), I have only seen "passive" adapters (pinout converters) or "full fledged" ISA, MCA (SIC!) or PCI SCSI cards.
Additionally (and I do have my experience with mixing SCSI things ) I don't recall any similar issue , as far as I know you can "mix together" all kind of SCSI devices, of course performance may depend on the "slower" device....
It would be interesting if you could provide some data ....

jaclaz

Unfortunately no data available. Just old tech support knowledge from jobs of years past. It has something to do with using a pin-adapter on some form of SCSI Iomega drive (Zip or Jaz) to adapt to either Fast/SCSI-2 or maybe SCSI-Wide. All I remember is that such things weren't covered under warranty because they had the habit of causing damage to the drives. Something about it running too fast on those controllers.

Definately not about chaining drives, although I do remember that putting a Zip drive in between chained Macs didn't work.

[submix8c]

re: ATA33 speed. True enough, but there are some out there that go UDMA Mode 4 (66.6 - I have one), requiring the 80-wire connection to use it. Worst case, you'll reduce the transfer speed but it should be ok.

[jaclaz]

submix8c, on 21 November 2012 - 02:29 PM, said:

re: ATA33 speed. True enough, but there are some out there that go UDMA Mode 4 (66.6 - I have one), requiring the 80-wire connection to use it. Worst case, you'll reduce the transfer speed but it should be ok.

How is that device (I presume a DVD-ROM reader/burner) "marked"?
Higher than "24x DVD"?

However the specific OP model:
http://www.plextoram...px-870a?start=1
should not have that speed.

jaclaz

[submix8c]

Spoiler

lite-on dvdrw lh-20a1p White or Black (no extra) <--tray "sticks"
Buffer Size 2 MB
Supported transfer mode: PIO mode 4, DMA mode 2 and Ultra DMA mode 4
SmartBurn Buffer Underrun + Smart-X Speed Adjust

DVD:
DVD+R 20X maximum by CAV
DVD-R 20X maximum by CAV
DVD+R9 8X maximum by Zone CLV
DVD-R9 8X maximum by Zone CLV
DVD-RAM 12X maximum by PCAV
DVD+RW 8X by Z-CLV
DVD-RW 6X by CLV
Read 16X maximum by CAV
CD:
CD-R 48X by CAV
CD-RW 32X maximum by Z-CLV in UltraSpeed disc
Read 48X maximum by CAV

You are correct, Sir Jaclaz - OP is unaffected. Post was an FYI/OT for anyone else visiting this topic.

[jaclaz]

submix8c, on 21 November 2012 - 03:10 PM, said:

You are correct, Sir Jaclaz - OP is unaffected. Post was an FYI/OT for anyone else visiting this topic.

Not at all OT , I am wondering if the data on Wikipedia I referenced is correct or if there is something (like a buffering or whatever) that prompted the Lite-on guys to use UltraDMA mode 4, or if it is just a way to say that you can connect it with an 80 wires cable...
I mean:

Quote

48x CD = up to 7.38 MB/s
20x DVD=27.70 MB/s

both are well within the 33.3 MB/s of the "plainer" ULTRA DMA 2

jaclaz

[submix8c]

Hmmm... don't know about the CD/DVD WIKI's, but the PATA gives a link to the PDF:

http://www.t10.org/t13/project/d1321r3-ATA-ATAPI-5.pdf

on page 351:
"Ultra DMA modes 0, 1, 2, 3 and 4 have maximum transfer rates of 16.7, 25, 33.3, 44.4, and
66.6 MB/s, respectively."

IOW, the first two WIKI's must be lacking further info re: a Combo DVD Drive and must be inaccurate? Bear in mind, WIKI is user-contributed. No time for further investigation right now - keeping the OT subject open for CD/DVD IO, ok?

I limit read/burn speeds to prevent mechanical failure.

[bphlpt]

As far as I can tell, you both agree that Ultra DMA 2 has a maximum transfer rate of 33.3 MB/s, so it doesn't seem that Ultrs DMA 4 is needed for CD/DVD use.

Cheers and Regards

[jaclaz]

bphlpt, on 22 November 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

As far as I can tell, you both agree that Ultra DMA 2 has a maximum transfer rate of 33.3 MB/s, so it doesn't seem that Ultrs DMA 4 is needed for CD/DVD use.

Sure , the speed of Ultra DMA2 is a fact (as per specifications), the question is if the speed transfer of a N x speed for a DVD-ROM reader/writer is in any way faster than that (I have no doubt that the CD is much slower at *any* multiplier).
If the Wikipedia data is accurate, submix8c's Lite-On 20x should top at 27.70 MB/s, some 17% slower than what the specs (and conversely the 40 wires cable) should allow, so what is/was the reason to have also UDMA 4 (and conversely 80 wires cables)?

jaclaz

[jumper]

The Nx speeds are for physical reads/writes. The read cache / write buffer can be accessed at much higher speeds (up to the interface maximum).

[jaclaz]

jumper, on 23 November 2012 - 04:24 AM, said:

The Nx speeds are for physical reads/writes. The read cache / write buffer can be accessed at much higher speeds (up to the interface maximum).

Sure, but this doesn't make the device "faster", nor by itself justifies the *need* for a faster mode .

I mean, more or less a cache or buffer behaves as a funnel, the idea is to have a continuous flow on the narrow end no matter how "intermittently" the larger end is fed, i.e. AFAIK is all about "regularity" and not about "speed", possibly it becomes relevant with non-sequential reads, though I doubt it can deliver a data transfer higher than the "label" 33.3 of the bus.

Actual tests (these are VERY old, if anyone can provide more recent ones it would be nice) on 16x drives:
http://www.tomshardw...ers,911-14.html
show an actual peak transfer rate of around 16x i.e. according to the Wikipedia article 22.16 MB/s, with the very faster one with 16.16*1.350=21,816 and 16.16*1,385=22,38 (usual mess between using 1000 and 1024), i.e. the faster of the lot exceeds the "label" specification by 0.16/16=10 %exactly (and on peaks only).

So I don't think there is a "real world" *need* for the Ultra DMA4, the reason for it must be *something else*

jaclaz

[cdob]

jaclaz, on 23 November 2012 - 07:49 AM, said:

the reason for it must be *something else*

http://en.wikipedia...._transfer_modes

Quote

its maximum theoretical transfer rate on the cable

There are two devices per cable.
Imagine read and write to the same parallel cable.

The situation is different at a serial cable: one device per cable
Hence it's maximum theoretical transfer rate on the device.

Beside user data there are commands to control the device.
Driver, cable and hardware result to user data transfer rate:
the limit can be 20x DVD speed user data at a UDMA2 PATA SATA adapter.
A optical drive offers max speed at end of media only.
I doubt a importand real world limitation at UDMA2 PATA SATA adapter.

Contrary any adapter is a additonal risk:
at a average IDE optical drive: do not buy a adapter, buy a new optical drive.
at a very good IDE optical drive: try one or more adapter(s)
And remember power supply, does current PSU offers a relating power connector?

[submix8c]

OK... It has a 2MB Buffer and apparently

Quote

UDMA 4 is supposed to allow faster burst rates for one thing, and the transfer rate tests seem to confirm this - but like I said, I'm not sure if I'm seeing any great benefits from it. On the other hand, if my writing quality is not made worse, then there's at least no harm in it.

(http://www.cdrlabs.c...dma-t22887.html)

Can anyone make heads or tails of this? Useful?
http://www.convertce....com/ide-udma66

edit - No difference in transfer rate?
http://www.hardwarec...MA-66-drives...

/OT

This post has been edited by submix8c: 23 November 2012 - 03:01 PM