[ppgrainbow]

As you may have already noticed, if you have Windows XP with SP3 and if you install update KB2724197, you'll notice that in the update that it will prohibit the use of EMS memory for 16-bit applications in Windows XP SP3.

The security update for Windows XP states that:

Quote

A security issue has been identified that could allow an authenticated local attacker to compromise your system and gain access to information. You can help protect your system by installing this update from Microsoft. After you install the update, you may have to restart your system.

The file versions of the files listed below will be updated to version 5.1.2600.6284 in Windows XP SP3:

 File Name     Size       Date    Time  Branch
ntkrnlmp.exe 2,148,864 2012-08-21 13:33 SP3GDR
ntkrnlpa.exe 2,069,632 2012-08-22 01:28 SP3GDR
ntkrpamp.exe 2,027,520 2012-08-21 12:58	SP3GDR
ntoskrnl.exe 2,192,896 2012-08-21 13:29	SP3GDR

ntkrnlmp.exe 2,148,864 2012-08-21 13:52	SP3QFE
ntkrnlpa.exe 2,069,632 2012-08-21 13:05	SP3QFE
ntkrpamp.exe 2,027,520 2012-08-21 13:05	SP3QFE
ntoskrnl.exe 2,193,024 2012-08-21 13:48	SP3QFE

Prior to installing the update, I have found older versions of the following Windows XP SP3 files in version 5.1.2600.6223:

 File Name     Size       Date    Time  Branch
ntkrnlmp.exe 2,148,352 2012-05-04 06:16 SP3QFE
ntkrnlpa.exe 2,069,120 2012-05-04 05:32 SP3QFE
ntkrpamp.exe 2,026,496 2012-05-04 05:32 SP3QfE
ntoskrnl.exe 2,192,640 2012-05-04 06:12 N/A

ntkrnlmp.exe and ntkrpamp can be found in \WINDOWS\Driver Cache\i386 while ntkrnlpa.exe and ntoskrnl.exe can both be found in \WINDOWS\SYSTEM directory.

If you look in this controversal thread and search for the threads mentioning KB2724197, there has been numerous complaints regarding KB2721497 and how such an update dropped EMS support apparently as a part of a phase-out of support for 16-bit DOS and Windows apps in 32-bit versions of Windows XP through Windows 8. And as a part of the phase out of support for Windows XP, it is turning out that the moderators in the Microsoft forums haven't been too unhelpful.

By the way, for anyone who still wants to use EMS for use in 16-bit DOS-based apps in Windows XP, the files are placed in a hidden directory called \WINDOWS\$NtUninstallKB2724197$.

I'm just wondering this...it is possible to replace the current versions of ntkrnlmp.exe, ntkrnlpa.exe, ntkrpamp.exe and ntoskrnl.exe with older versions found in \WINDOWS\$NtUninstallKB2724197$ by hand rather than uninstalling the update? I have backed up the files to the \EMS directory incase I want to do this.

Also, if I don't want the 16-bit subsystem in Windows XP anymore, is it possible to remove the NTVDM 16-bit subsystem?

I have installed the update in a Windows XP SP3 VMware Player VM, by the way.

This post has been edited by ppgrainbow: 21 November 2012 - 01:12 AM

[tomasz86]

ppgrainbow, on 21 November 2012 - 01:11 AM, said:

I'm just wondering this...it is possible to replace the current versions of ntkrnlmp.exe, ntkrnlpa.exe, ntkrpamp.exe and ntoskrnl.exe with older versions found in \WINDOWS\$NtUninstallKB2724197$ by hand rather than uninstalling the update? I have backed up the files to the \EMS directory incase I want to do this.

Yes but please read this post.

I'd rather uninstall the update and just add to the registry:

HKLM,"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\HotFix\KB2724197","Installed",0x10001,1

This should prevent WU from asking for it.

[dencorso]

dencorso, on 05 November 2012 - 12:29 AM, said:

Joseph_sw, on 24 October 2012 - 05:28 AM, said:

Quote

Also, the Microsoft knowledge base often seems to speak a different language that is more difficult to comprehend compared to an Internet forum. Instead of one paragraph summarizing a problem followed by instructions to resolve it, I see one warning about warranty, another warning about editing the registry, that is written in style that borders with legalese, after which I stop reading.

One example is: KB2724197
MS blabing mumbo-jumbo about 'security', but said nothing that it would impact EMS availabilty on NTVDM.

Well, the previous "security" update, KB2707511 already caused NTVDM to crash on opening a pipe, an issue that hasn't been fixed. Since security updates are cumulative, KB2724197 must have both issues. Now, ain't those latest updates really awesome?

Just to yet again point out that maybe two rollbacks may be in order, not just one... KB2633171 being the last non-flawed krnl set.

[ppgrainbow]

tomasz86, on 21 November 2012 - 01:28 AM, said:

ppgrainbow, on 21 November 2012 - 01:11 AM, said:

I'm just wondering this...it is possible to replace the current versions of ntkrnlmp.exe, ntkrnlpa.exe, ntkrpamp.exe and ntoskrnl.exe with older versions found in \WINDOWS\$NtUninstallKB2724197$ by hand rather than uninstalling the update? I have backed up the files to the \EMS directory incase I want to do this.

Yes but please read this post.

I'd rather uninstall the update and just add to the registry:

HKLM,"SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\HotFix\KB2724197","Installed",0x10001,1

This should prevent WU from asking for it.

Thanks for telling me. I appreciate it

[ppgrainbow]

dencorso, on 21 November 2012 - 02:05 AM, said:

dencorso, on 05 November 2012 - 12:29 AM, said:

Joseph_sw, on 24 October 2012 - 05:28 AM, said:

Quote

Also, the Microsoft knowledge base often seems to speak a different language that is more difficult to comprehend compared to an Internet forum. Instead of one paragraph summarizing a problem followed by instructions to resolve it, I see one warning about warranty, another warning about editing the registry, that is written in style that borders with legalese, after which I stop reading.

One example is: KB2724197
MS blabing mumbo-jumbo about 'security', but said nothing that it would impact EMS availabilty on NTVDM.

Well, the previous "security" update, KB2707511 already caused NTVDM to crash on opening a pipe, an issue that hasn't been fixed. Since security updates are cumulative, KB2724197 must have both issues. Now, ain't those latest updates really awesome?

Just to yet again point out that maybe two rollbacks may be in order, not just one... KB2633171 being the last non-flawed krnl set.

I can't believe that Microsoft hasn't been very helpful remedying the issue of EMS not working for 16-bit apps under Windows XP as I personally believe that the important of the 16-bit Windows subsystem is increasingly deprecated.

[dencorso]

ppgrainbow, on 21 November 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

dencorso, on 21 November 2012 - 02:05 AM, said:

dencorso, on 05 November 2012 - 12:29 AM, said:

Joseph_sw, on 24 October 2012 - 05:28 AM, said:

Quote

Also, the Microsoft knowledge base often seems to speak a different language that is more difficult to comprehend compared to an Internet forum.

One example is KB2724197: MS blabing mumbo-jumbo about 'security', but said nothing that it would impact EMS availabilty on NTVDM.

Well, the previous "security" update, KB2707511 already caused NTVDM to crash on opening a pipe, an issue that hasn't been fixed. Since security updates are cumulative, KB2724197 must have both issues. Now, ain't those latest updates really awesome?

Just to yet again point out that maybe two rollbacks may be in order, not just one... KB2633171 being the last non-flawed krnl set.

I can't believe that Microsoft hasn't been very helpful remedying the issue of EMS not working for 16-bit apps under Windows XP as I personally believe that the important of the 16-bit Windows subsystem is increasingly deprecated.

True enough. BTW, if you really need EMS, EMS Magic seems to be the way to go...

[ppgrainbow]

dencorso, on 21 November 2012 - 11:50 PM, said:

ppgrainbow, on 21 November 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

dencorso, on 21 November 2012 - 02:05 AM, said:

dencorso, on 05 November 2012 - 12:29 AM, said:

Joseph_sw, on 24 October 2012 - 05:28 AM, said:

Quote

Also, the Microsoft knowledge base often seems to speak a different language that is more difficult to comprehend compared to an Internet forum.

One example is KB2724197: MS blabing mumbo-jumbo about 'security', but said nothing that it would impact EMS availabilty on NTVDM.

Well, the previous "security" update, KB2707511 already caused NTVDM to crash on opening a pipe, an issue that hasn't been fixed. Since security updates are cumulative, KB2724197 must have both issues. Now, ain't those latest updates really awesome?

Just to yet again point out that maybe two rollbacks may be in order, not just one... KB2633171 being the last non-flawed krnl set.

I can't believe that Microsoft hasn't been very helpful remedying the issue of EMS not working for 16-bit apps under Windows XP as I personally believe that the important of the 16-bit Windows subsystem is increasingly deprecated.

True enough. BTW, if you really need EMS, EMS Magic seems to be the way to go...

That's a very good idea!

[dencorso]

ppgrainbow, on 25 November 2012 - 04:29 AM, said:

dencorso, on 21 November 2012 - 11:50 PM, said:

ppgrainbow, on 21 November 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

dencorso, on 21 November 2012 - 02:05 AM, said:

dencorso, on 05 November 2012 - 12:29 AM, said:

Joseph_sw, on 24 October 2012 - 05:28 AM, said:

Quote

Also, the Microsoft knowledge base often seems to speak a different language that is more difficult to comprehend compared to an Internet forum.

One example is KB2724197: MS blabing mumbo-jumbo about 'security', but said nothing that it would impact EMS availabilty on NTVDM.

Well, the previous "security" update, KB2707511 already caused NTVDM to crash on opening a pipe, an issue that hasn't been fixed. Since security updates are cumulative, KB2724197 must have both issues. Now, ain't those latest updates really awesome?

Just to yet again point out that maybe two rollbacks may be in order, not just one... KB2633171 being the last non-flawed krnl set.

I can't believe that Microsoft hasn't been very helpful remedying the issue of EMS not working for 16-bit apps under Windows XP as I personally believe that the important of the 16-bit Windows subsystem is increasingly deprecated.

True enough. BTW, if you really need EMS, EMS Magic seems to be the way to go...

That's a very good idea!

Good news! At least the NTVDM pipe and UMB issues seem to be solved by KB2785487. Not sure about EMS availability, but EMS Magic is known to solve that.