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Are people's expectations of software too low?


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#1
Windashnet

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I am wondering what other people think, about people in general and there expectations of software in general and operating systems in specific.

For me it seems people just don't expect enough from an operating system. In windows people live with instability and data loss, well at least people who multitask. And as far as I can tell, at least from the replies I have received to questions and from my explorations of Ubuntu. It seems that in Linux people live with having to find all sorts of cryptic terminal commands to do things that should be a simple click away in a GUI.

In Windows people live with all sorts of software problems. . A good example is games getting high reviews even though the reviewer says the POS crashed all the time. I have also seen people post on the software download sites giving high ratings to programs that were buggy and crashed. I have also noticed in Ubuntu Software Center people give three stars to apps that start but crash, come on here 3 stars for something that doesn't work?

And I won't even start on Android, etc. etc.

But anyway what does everyone think?
Are peoples expectations of software too low?


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#2
xpclient

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Yes it's just rock bottom low and I find 99% of the population still struggling with computers after decades of using Windows. :( That's why it's getting more dumbed down by the day. :(

Impossible to run NT6 without third party fixes.


#3
vinifera

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I'm just waiting now for someone to come and write "its because its hard to maintain compatibility/legacy with older NT versions" :D
If you want true Windows user experience
try Longhorn builds: 3718, 4029, 4066

#4
CoffeeFiend

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I don't know if I'd say rock bottom. I think it's always been pretty low, but with a different set of problems. There's tons of problems, which I'd like to split in 2 major categories:

Development-related problems:

-poor requirements or not understanding the problem to solve properly (the soft works great... but not doing what it needed to do in the first place)
-the said requirements changing late in the development cycle, requiring major changes, resulting in rushed changes
-poor project planning and bad estimates (all too common), leading to my next point:
-managers pushing for the quick release of buggy and incomplete software because of time and money constraints
-feature creep (the work for new features just piles on, without extra time to take care of it and often increasing complexity)
-there's lots of old codebases full of cruft to support (like stuff that's no longer used and that nobody understands anymore)
-software foolishly being rewritten from the ground up often producing something worse
-outsourcing to the absolute cheapest place (only getting incompetent people who screw everything up)
-making poor decisions as per what technologies to use (like thinking functional programming or RoR will magically make everything easy and perfect)
-technology and developer tools changing too fast and developers being unable to cope with the said changes (especially true for MS products)
-lots of software still being created in a way that's adapted to how programmers think and work
-inadequate testing and QA (shipping low quality, buggy code)
etc.

And the other category, being mostly stuff end-users directly notice:

-PCs from most OEMs being with tons of crapware (including trials) because of super thin profit margins and greed
-too much apps installing unecessary background processes (like iTunes)
-too many apps with their own sucky updaters (like Java)
-too many apps with sucky installers (like Java), often with toolbars and other junk
-add to that the problems brought by moving to a 64 bit OS, and WDDM drivers, and tighter security (like UAC)
-increasingly complicated licensing options
-increasing system complexity often makes for more complicated problems to fix
etc (those are only a small portion of Windows-related problems, not even close to a complete list)

and also, Windows 8 in itself is quite a disaster... Unfortunately, I wouldn't get my hopes up.
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#5
dencorso

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Yes it's just rock bottom low [...]

I don't know if I'd say rock bottom.

Definitely not rock bottom. Like in the Paradox of Achilles and the Tortoise, it's always possible to get still lower, I regret to say...

#6
Windashnet

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It is so interesting the difference between this forum and the Ubuntu forums, here most people say yes peoples expectations of software are too low, on Ubuntu forums it turned into a how great the terminal command line is. LOL!

I get that on just about every topic I post over there.

Thanks to everyone who has posted, and a special thanks to the person who posted the big post on software problems.

#7
vinifera

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ugh terminal comands = stone age
If you want true Windows user experience
try Longhorn builds: 3718, 4029, 4066

#8
Windashnet

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ugh terminal comands = stone age


LOL! yep!

Although I'm not one to say get rid of terminal commands entirely, they have their uses, scripts to remote configure machines are but one example.

but in a GUI age, very very few things should need you to go to a terminal prompt.

#9
bphlpt

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Why?

Cheers and Regards

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#10
submix8c

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LOL!!! dyentrush Spammer? Isn't this how XRumer works? Get into something simple to "open the door" then flood?

First post and glad for... WHAT? A nonsensical discussion? Which part helped you out? :w00t: Please enlighten us and maybe that part can be hilited or made into a Sticky.

Edited by submix8c, 30 December 2012 - 06:59 PM.

Someday the tyrants will be unthroned... Jason "Jay" Chasteen; RIP, bro!

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#11
Geej

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VC Redist should be part of windows OS since many program need them.
Why people does not expect VC Redist as part of OS components? Many developers includes their VC Redist in their program installers. Even if you have VC Redist installed, those installers generally still install their bundled VC Redist. Over a period of time, OS ended up a lot bloated VC. VC Redist should be part of MS Update/AU. Not leave it to developers to distribute with their software. Why they choose to leave it to developers to distribute VC is beyond my understanding.

Happy 2013 New Years, everyone! :)

#12
Windashnet

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LOL!!! dyentrush Spammer? Isn't this how XRumer works? Get into something simple to "open the door" then flood?

First post and glad for... WHAT? A nonsensical discussion? Which part helped you out? :w00t: Please enlighten us and maybe that part can be hilited or made into a Sticky.


Actually I think he was being sarcastic.
I think he is much like you, in that he is going into a thread he is not interested in and posting negative comments.

-----

But lets talk of more relative to this thread.
First off this is posted in the "General Discussion" section. It is a section ware people can talk about anything. If you read the top of the post you will see "Think before posting! color="#FF0000"] If your post is even remotely technical in nature, it probably doesn't belong here. Take another look at the forums and try to find the *right* location before posting a technical question here.[/color] "

As to the specifics of the thread, for me it was very enlightening in that people's comments reinforced my thoughts on the subject.

-------

But on a different note, why do you think every topic should be something your interested in?
It is my opinion that if your not interested in a topic, maybe you should not waste your time reading it. That's kina the reason for a title, so you can select only those posts that you are interested in.
In my opinion going into threads you are not interested in and posting negative comments about the thread is childish and serves no purpose.

_____

On a more relevant thought, at least this thread didn't turn into a discussion of "how great the terminal command line is in Linux" as most posts do on the Ubuntu forums.. LOL!

#13
ROTS

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Think about it like Videogames consumer base. Most of the original consumer base have children that are about ten now. Yet NFL., television networks, radio programs, and teathers attempts to abuse this consumer base implusive buying power. So now people who plays videogames are equal to people to make babies all the time.

Maybe I am missing something here, but it just seems, the computer user consumer base has melted away into a bunch of sixty year old men, going for retirement. The new generation of IT perks, are completely unaware, but aware of the immensive "legacy" they leave behind and the resposibilty of correcting these mistakes that was never cleaned up to begin with. However I guess nobody has the brain power to fix these problems.

As with the many users as with gamers, our problems are unimportant enough, Their are many naive IT people to abuse. As well as law, securtiy, and social issues that will seek out help with computers. As with my twenty year old college professor said. It is not my job to know how this darn box works, I just use it to put your grades in.

Maybe if we write a letter to Bill Gates and promise to be his friend, so that he wont fall asleep like Michael Jackson finally we will get a good release of windows, that is meant for one user. The stupid kind, not just the assuming.

Edited by ROTS, 18 January 2013 - 11:43 PM.


#14
submix8c

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Actually I think he was being sarcastic.
I think he is much like you, in that he is going into a thread he is not interested in and posting negative comments.

Not really - notice that there's a link to... What??? Looks kind of "spammy" to me...

Otherwise, I'm fine with the topic. Notice that was the ONLY comment I made? Otherwise, I wouldn't have said diddly.

Now YOU enlighten ME!
1 - "Not interested in" - I'm a "helper" (i.e. "giver", not a "taker")
2 - "Posting negative comments" - Which ones? The ones correcting erroneous information?
:lol:

Google
dyentrush
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XRumer
My comment stands...

Edited by submix8c, 19 January 2013 - 12:41 PM.

Someday the tyrants will be unthroned... Jason "Jay" Chasteen; RIP, bro!

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#15
jaclaz

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But on a different note, why do you think every topic should be something your interested in?
It is my opinion that if your not interested in a topic, maybe you should not waste your time reading it. That's kina the reason for a title, so you can select only those posts that you are interested in.
In my opinion going into threads you are not interested in and posting negative comments about the thread is childish and serves no purpose.


JFYI, you may want to take note of the seven letter word, starting with "P" that submix8c sports in his profile (just on the right of "Group:", in dark red ) :whistle:



jaclaz

#16
submix8c

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EDIT (just to bump - REALLY!!!)

Just had a close look at the GOOOOGLE I provided in my previous post!

Have a look-see here (re - XRumer methodology)
http://www.stopforum...ck/49.145.23.80

Spammer User-ID found.
Side note - exact same comment made on another website with a different back-link.

Aren't spam prevention websites wonderful? :w00t: :yes:

Someday the tyrants will be unthroned... Jason "Jay" Chasteen; RIP, bro!

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#17
Andromeda43

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Dang, that's a hard act to follow.

I learned 30+ years ago, with DOS 2.0 to not let my expectations exceed the capability of the OS. It was what it was.
I didn't like the OS of the Commodore 64 very much either, so I re-wrote the dang thing. Then it worked pretty good.

But when I started using DOS, I said to myself, "learn to use it the way it was written, and don't worry about it too much". So I did!

The writers of MS products, all the way back to DOS 2.0 have been very optimistic about what kind of a lame system someone would try to run their OS on.
For instance the Dell desktop that came out with only 128 meg of ram and a 4 gig hard drive. In MY world, that would be cause for legal action, but they got away with it without ever any court action at all.
People bought that POC machine and ran it as if they really had something to brag about. To this old tech, that PC belonged on a manure pile somewhere.

So MS wrote into their OS's all sorts of what we in the business call "Safe Defaults" so their OS could run on even the POC Dells, ect.

The trick today is to know how to reprogram the OS to bypass the SAFE Defaults to get down to the real OS that will run at it's maximum performance.
I can reprogram a brand new PC today and at least DOUBLE its performance.

So don't gripe about any OS until you've learned how to tweak and tune it for its maximum performance. Eh?
Out of the box, every OS will run at about 30% of its possible performance. I'm speaking of Windows.....all versions.

Cheers mate!
B)
A person with experience is never at the mercy of a person with an argument.

#18
cyberformer

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Hi! Andromeda43

A very true and excellent post!
I've found that the best way to run a 9x, or NT OS, starts After...
one adds a lot more RAM than what the PC came with, as well
as Removing various programs that are considered "integral" to
the OS itself, as well as the Crapware (if bundled with the PC).

I might add though, that I've really only had problems with both
the 9x and NT versions---once they reached the end of "Their
Life Cycle"...and the ensuing "end of software,
and hardware support" that eventually follows.
From that point on,
it usually becomes a real chore/and or challenge---to keep your
fine tuned and personally modified system "working".




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