Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
vipejc

Motherboard front panel header and case front panel connectors don&#39

83 posts in this topic

Also, since I don't think it is mentioned... PATA cables have a maximum length of 18 inches (457 mm) but you can actually get longer ones. Make sure that your PATA cable is the appropriate length as well.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, since I don't think it is mentioned... PATA cables have a maximum length of 18 inches (457 mm) but you can actually get longer ones. Make sure that your PATA cable is the appropriate length as well.

Oh, yes, it is mentioned alright in the given links:

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/ide/conf_Cable.htm

The main issue is the length of the cable. The longer the cable, the more the chance of data corruption due to interference on the cable and uneven signal propagation, and therefore, it is often recommended that the cable be kept as short as possible. According to the ATA standards, the official maximum length is 18 inches, but if you suspect problems with your hard disk you may find that a shorter cable will eliminate them. Sometimes moving where the disks are physically installed in the system case will let you use a shorter cable.

Warning: There are companies that sell 24" and even 36" IDE cables. They are not recommended because they can lead to data corruption and other problems. Many people use these with success, but many people do a lot of things they shouldn't and get away with it. :^)

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/ide/confCable80-c.html

Note also that the 18" length restriction associated with the original 40-conductor cable applies to this variation as well.

18"=457.2 mm

jaclaz

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With 80 wires cable in case of cable select the Black end is master, the Gray middle is slave, the Blue end goes to the motherboard. (even if you do not use cable select you should NOT change these connections, you can actually exchange Black with Gray BUT it is very likely you will have signal issues as current disk drives in use are using ATA 5 or 6 which use DMA modes 3 or 4 times faster than what originally prompted for use of the 80 connector cable with the master device on the end)

In practice, initially fake :w00t: that you are setting up a cable select system and connect connectors as per specs :yes: , then do not trust the devices :no: , nor the cable, nor the BIOS, nor anything else but the jumpers of the devices and set anyway the jumpers properly. ;)

@ jaclaz

Then why does an 80-wire one-device cable with the blue end connected to the motherboard and the other black end connected to the hard disk that's jumpered as Master or Single (WD) on IDE channel 0, and another 80-wire one-device cable with the blue end connected to the motherboard and the other black end connected to the DVD burner that's jumpered as Master on IDE channel 1 FAIL? The BIOS doesn't detect either the hard disk or the DVD burner with this configuration.

Yes, that's correct. My hard disk sits below my DVD burner, which is why I'm trying to use an 80-wire two-device cable with the blue end connected to the motherboard, the gray connector connected to my hard disk set as Master w/ Slave Present, and the black connector connected to my DVD burner set as Slave. Both the hard disk and DVD burner are detected by the BIOS, the hard disk works, but Windows doesn't detect the DVD burner.

How would you set this up using the least amount of cables to increase airflow?

Edited by vipejc
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Then why does an 80-wire one-device cable with the blue end connected to the motherboard and the other black end connected to the hard disk that's jumpered as Master or Single (WD) on IDE channel 0, and another 80-wire one-device cable with the blue end connected to the motherboard and the other black end connected to the DVD burner that's jumpered as Master on IDE channel 1 FAIL? The BIOS doesn't detect either the hard disk or the DVD burner with this configuration.

Who knows?

Now that we have found a "common language" to exchange ideas and reports, it is time to troubleshoot

Test #1

  1. FORGET the hard disk
  2. Connect the CD/DVD drive (to the black connector AND jumpered as "Master") with a "single" cable to IDE0 (the blue side to the motherboard)

Does the BIOS see the optical drive?

Test #2

  1. FORGET the hard disk
  2. Connect the CD/DVD drive (to the black connector AND jumpered as "Master") with a "single" cable to IDE1 (the blue side to the motherboard) using the SAME cable used in test 1

Does the BIOS see the optical drive?

Test #3

  1. FORGET the CD/DVD drive
  2. Connect the hard disk (to the black connector AND jumpered as "Master/single") with a "single" cable to IDE0 (the blue side to the motherboard) using the SAME cable used in tests 1 and 2

Does the BIOS see the hard disk?

Test #4

  1. FORGET the CD/DVD drive
  2. Connect the hard disk (to the black connector AND jumpered as "Master/single") with a "single" cable to IDE1 (the blue side to the motherboard) using the SAME cable used in tests 1,2 and 3

Does the BIOS see the hard disk?

jaclaz

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BWAHAHAH!!!! Functional Cable Isolation... Good call!

Who knows?
FYI - per the PCGUIDE link - maybe not so true?

From WDC (re: 40-conductor)

http://wdc.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/54/~/eide-drive-is-not-recognized-or-detected-by-the-system-bios

If you are using an Ultra ATA cable (80-conductor) make sure that the Master or Single drive is on the black end connector. Connect any Slave device present to the gray middle connector. Finally, the blue end connector should be connected to the motherboard or EIDE controller card. If you are using a standard 40-conductor data cable, connect the Master device to one end, the Slave to the middle and the other end to the motherboard.
Jumpers
If there are two drives on the data cable, one must be Master and one designated as Slave. If the drive is the only device on the cable, it should be jumpered as a Single drive, NOT a Master.
Single/Master(NoSlave)=NoJumper / Master(+Slave)=Jumper <-WD only(?)

You might want to check the Jumper Specs on that (unnamed) DVD Drive too...

More on 40-conductor / 80-conductor / CS

http://pinouts.ru/HD/AtaInternal_pinout.shtml

http://unixwiz.net/techtips/ide-cable-select.html

To throw fire onto the "position" on 40-conductor (pcguide link)

Making matters worse, the 40-conductor IDE/ATA cable select cables have the "master connector" as the middle device and the "slave connector" as the device at the end of the cable, farthest from the host.
I have 40-conductor Non-CableSelect cables. In addition, I have no problem connecting per WDC.
For signaling reasons, it's best to put a single drive at the end of a cable, not put it in the middle leaving a "stub" of wire hanging off the end of the channel. But if you do this, that single drive sets itself as a slave with no master, a technically illegal configuration.
Still referring to CableSelect cables and PROBABLY when using the Jumpers in CS-mode. Strange (or not) that many OLDER CD/DVD-Drives RECOMMEND CS on Channel-1 on the END of the 40-conductor Cable.

I'm only KIND OF disputing the "position" of Devices when using Fixed (non-CS) Jumpered Mas/Slv configurations.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Single/Master(NoSlave)=NoJumper / Master(+Slave)=Jumper <-WD only(?)

Yes. I don't remember other brands with the dual Master/single and Master settings.

Still referring to CableSelect cables and PROBABLY when using the Jumpers in CS-mode. Strange (or not) that many OLDER CD/DVD-Drives RECOMMEND CS on Channel-1 on the END of the 40-conductor Cable.

No, you are seemingly having problems in reading/understanding what is written.

There exist (in 40 wires cable) BOTH Cable Select Enabled and "plain" NON Cable Select ones, on the 40 wires CSE cables the Slave is at the end of the cable .

The 80 wires are all (or should be all) Cable Select Enabled and the Slave is in the middle.

On *any* bus of *any*kind (and not only PC/Computer related) having an end of a cable "free" with nothing connected to it is NOT smart and it is a possible source of trouble.

Do you remember the good ol' SCSI bus and it's "terminators"?

jaclaz

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Single/Master(NoSlave)=NoJumper / Master(+Slave)=Jumper <-WD only(?)

Yes. I don't remember other brands with the dual Master/single and Master settings.

Still referring to CableSelect cables and PROBABLY when using the Jumpers in CS-mode. Strange (or not) that many OLDER CD/DVD-Drives RECOMMEND CS on Channel-1 on the END of the 40-conductor Cable.

No, you are seemingly having problems in reading/understanding what is written.

There exist (in 40 wires cable) BOTH Cable Select Enabled and "plain" NON Cable Select ones, on the 40 wires CSE cables the Slave is at the end of the cable .

The 80 wires are all (or should be all) Cable Select Enabled and the Slave is in the middle.

On *any* bus of *any*kind (and not only PC/Computer related) having an end of a cable "free" with nothing connected to it is NOT smart and it is a possible source of trouble.

Do you remember the good ol' SCSI bus and it's "terminators"?

jaclaz

@ jaclaz

I'm waiting for a package in the mail of cable ties. Once it arrives, I'll shut down my computer and start isolating IDE cables. But first, I'm simply going to try changing the jumpers to Slave on the hard disk and Master on the DVD burner, just to see if this makes a difference. A hard disk can be a Slave to a DVD burner that is seldom used without issue, right?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even if it "can" be, it is not the best practice. Are you sure your cable is not long enough to be able to connect the DVD and HDD to the cable in the correct positions? Just because the DVD is located "above" the HDD doesn't mean that the cable can't be bent/twisted/folded in order to get it into the right position. If the cable is long enough for the middle/slave connector to reach the DVD, then you should be able to make it work.

Cheers and Regards

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@jaclaz -

Well, that's the reason I said I "kind of" dispute the assertions made in said article about 40-connector MASTER=MIDDLE and SLAVE=END, since I've always used (per WDC as well) MASTER=END regardless of SLAVE=MIDDLE attached or not.

You see, I'm reading CONFLICTING info on "where to connect" on (aka) 40-wire MAS/SLV. As in the "good old days" the Jumper sets Device0-MAS and Device1-SLV (AFAIK).

:unsure: Maybe the 40-wire ones I've been using are Non-CSE (IOW, CS should NOT be used on the Devices and won't work)? Guess I'd better check the box contents and start marking. Either they are "cut" somewhere or disconnected on that pin ( ref http://unixwiz.net/techtips/ide-cable-select.html ). Interesting that said article links back to pcguide. Hence the Non-CSE vs CSE misunderstanding (position of device) in relation to Jumpered-Not-CSE. Am I making sense?

Yes, SCSI Terminators - have an old HP NetServer sitting here gathering dust. And the could care less "where connected" and the Jumpers set the SCSI-ID.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even if it "can" be, it is not the best practice. Are you sure your cable is not long enough to be able to connect the DVD and HDD to the cable in the correct positions? Just because the DVD is located "above" the HDD doesn't mean that the cable can't be bent/twisted/folded in order to get it into the right position. If the cable is long enough for the middle/slave connector to reach the DVD, then you should be able to make it work.

Cheers and Regards

The IDE cable is long enough. I can't twist it to make it so the HDD is on the end Master connector. I'm going to try my idea and just see if it brings back the DVD burner in Windows. What's funny is the BIOS detects it, but Windows is blind to it.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good luck, but trust me, if you can reach from the motherboard to the DVD with the middle connector, and you can reach from the DVD to the HDD with the length of cable from the middle to the end connector, I'm 95% sure that it can be folded/flipped/twisted to make it work. I've wrestled with many of them over the years and have always succeeded. Try putting it together in reverse order. In other words, start the connection process by connecting the end connector to the HDD, then connect the middle connector to the DVD, then connect to the motherboard. A way you can experiment to see it this would even make a difference anyway is to just let the HDD temporarily hang from the cable, or prop it up with cardboard, just long enough to boot and see what Windows thinks. If the cable is hooked up correctly, and the BIOS detects it, and Windows still doesn't, then there is something else wrong with your Windows install.

Cheers and Regards

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It turns out the problem wasn't the BIOS or IDE cables. I forgot to set the Local Bus IDE Adapter BIOS setting from Both to Primary. Using the two-device 80-wire IDE cable with the hard disk set to Master w/ Slave Present on the gray connector and the DVD burner set to Slave on the black connector, the BIOS and Windows detect the hard disk and DVD burner. Yes, I know the gray connector is supposed to be used for the slave device and the black for master, but the cable doesn't accommodate this setup and it's not causing a problem. Also, I restored my audio by jumpering the motherboard's front audio pins. I also restored my DVD burner in Windows by readjusting a few settings in Device Manager under the IDE channels. See, I only enable what I use on my computer, and after years of not changing it, I sometimes forget.

I do have a new concern, however. I noticed that the black teeth on one of the front USB ports to this new case looks damaged. There's a metal spot showing. The port worked fine in testing, but could this cause device damage, or is it only a cosmetic factory defect?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It turns out the problem wasn't the BIOS or IDE cables. I forgot to set the Local Bus IDE Adapter BIOS setting from Both to Primary.

Makes no sense and I can't find anything indicating what those settings mean (regardless of the fact I SAID that color mattered IF USING CSEL).

Also, I restored my audio by jumpering the motherboard's front audio pins.

As was already found. Glad you tried it and it worked. FP Connector is a separate issue.

I also restored my DVD burner in Windows by readjusting a few settings in Device Manager under the IDE channels. See, I only enable what I use on my computer, and after years of not changing it, I sometimes forget.

Yes, too bad you didn't notice that BIOS setting before and the associated Device Manager stuff. Also too bad we have wasted a LOT of time on your "problems".

I do have a new concern, however. I noticed that the black teeth on one of the front USB ports to this new case looks damaged. There's a metal spot showing. The port worked fine in testing, but could this cause device damage, or is it only a cosmetic factory defect?

"BLACK TEETH"??? "METAL SPOT"??? What's THAT? Take a pic and upload it. That ALSO makes no sense! My Connectors have NO "BLACK TEETH" AFAICT... Another Goose Chase?
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sub, I'm referring to the black plastic horizontal strip inside a USB 2.0 type-A receptacle. A piece of the black coating is worn and appears a clear or silver color. My question is could this cause device damage, or is it only a cosmetic factory defect?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(sigh...) Inside MINE is a "vertical" (since mine is obviously Up-Down instead of Left-Right - YOU GAVE NO PHOTO IMAGE) Black Strip with FOUR contacts and on the OPPOSITE side there are TWO "contacts" that MAY be (and obviously ARE) for the Shield/CaseGround. See this Pinout (both Male and Female) and this Mobo Pinout? I have NO CLUE what you're talking about...

P-I-C-T-U-R-E!!!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.