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Windows 98 on Floppy Disks?

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#1
coolman

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I recall hearing that Win98 (Build 4.10.1998) was made available on 39 DMF-formatted floppy disks. Do you know anywhere I could get them other than ordering them from Microsoft? (You can't do that anymore) My CD-ROM drive broke. Please don't tell me to get another CD-ROM drive. I'm really disappointed with people that keep asking me this.

Edited by coolman, 22 December 2012 - 06:23 PM.

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#2
tomasz86

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You can just install the system from HDD...
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#3
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Seriously, replace the optical drive. Probably less than $20 new but people are throwing them out like crazy. Should easily get one for free if you look around.

ADDED:, as tomasz86 says, you can copy the CDROM to a directory on a HDD and run setup from there in DOS after booting from a newly formatted HDD or a startup floppy.

Edited by CharlotteTheHarlot, 22 December 2012 - 05:09 AM.

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#4
coolman

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Seriously, replace the optical drive. Probably less than $20 new but people are throwing them out like crazy. Should easily get one for free if you look around.

ADDED:, as tomasz86 says, you can copy the CDROM to a directory on a HDD and run setup from there in DOS after booting from a newly formatted HDD or a startup floppy.

Well like I said, my CD-ROM drive broke. I don't know a way I would be able to read the CD.
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#5
tomasz86

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Then you really should buy a new CD-ROM drive. You can a used one for $5 or even less.

Edited by tomasz86, 22 December 2012 - 12:58 PM.

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#6
coolman

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Then you really should buy a new CD-ROM drive. You can a used one for $5 or even less.

Like I said in my original post, please don't ask me to get a new CD-ROM drive. If you can't come up with anything constructive please don't answer.
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#7
tomasz86

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Sorry but this is really the simplest and easiest solution. If you really want to buy the floppy disk version of Windows 98 then go to eBay or other websites and look for it. It will be way more expensive than a new CD-ROM drive (that is if you ever manage to find it).

Edited by tomasz86, 22 December 2012 - 01:38 PM.

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#8
bphlpt

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I'm sorry if we keep suggesting that you do something that you don't want to do, but where did you think you could get a copy of Win98 on floppy for less money than a used, or even new CD-ROM drive will cost? I can't think of any option to find such a set other than eBay. But even if someone had a set they were willing to give you for free, with Win98 already loaded on them, postage alone to mail them to you is likely to cost more than a CD-ROM drive. That many blank floppy disks, IF you can find them, will definitely cost more than that. Not to mention that install by floppy, or even just copying from 39 floppy disks to your HDD will be slow as all get out and prone to error. Perhaps if you could explain why you do not wish to pursue replacing your CD-ROM drive it would make more sense or we could offer you another alternative.

Cheers and Regards

Edited by bphlpt, 22 December 2012 - 01:58 PM.

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#9
LostInSpace2012

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I used to use floppies a lot back in the nineties... seems like every other week they ended up getting corrupted or bad sectors. So, as soon as just one disk gets one error, and one lousy kilobyte of data is corrupted, then the whole shebang will be useless. I don't recommend using floppies for anything more than DOS Boot disks.

The first time I had to replace a CD-Rom was like two years ago, on my Windows ME machine. It lasted for like ten years, but then one day just died. I figured, well, that it's my computer is toast. Nope. I was wrong. It's really simple.

All I had to do was (1) open up the computer case, (2) unscrew the 2-4 screws holding the CD-Rom in place, (3) remove the two cables from the back of the CDROM, (4) slide/pull out the defective CD-Rom drive.

To install a new or used one, you just reverse that process. I didn't have to install any software, change anything in the BIOS, or do anything in Windows... the computer detected it all by itself and it was like nothing was different.

Once you take out the drive, just write down the model number and brand on a piece of paper. Go to ebay and buy the exact same model if you're paranoid about compatibility issues. It really only takes like 5 minutes max.

What are you going to do when you floppy disk drives breaks? You're gonna have to replace it.

#10
coolman

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I'm sorry if we keep suggesting that you do something that you don't want to do, but where did you think you could get a copy of Win98 on floppy for less money than a used, or even new CD-ROM drive will cost? I can't think of any option to find such a set other than eBay. But even if someone had a set they were willing to give you for free, with Win98 already loaded on them, postage alone to mail them to you is likely to cost more than a CD-ROM drive. That many blank floppy disks, IF you can find them, will definitely cost more than that. Not to mention that install by floppy, or even just copying from 39 floppy disks to your HDD will be slow as all get out and prone to error. Perhaps if you could explain why you do not wish to pursue replacing your CD-ROM drive it would make more sense or we could offer you another alternative.

Cheers and Regards

I cannot replace my CD-ROM drive because I have tried to replace it about 4 times with 4 different drives and the drives had never wanted to work.

Edited by coolman, 22 December 2012 - 03:07 PM.

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#11
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I cannot replace my CD-ROM drive because I have tried to replace it about 4 times with 4 different drives and the drives had never wanted to work.

But have you SHOUTED at them hard enough? :unsure:
http://www.msfn.org/...nable-to-eject/

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#12
coolman

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I cannot replace my CD-ROM drive because I have tried to replace it about 4 times with 4 different drives and the drives had never wanted to work.

But have you SHOUTED at them hard enough? :unsure:
http://www.msfn.org/...nable-to-eject/

jaclaz

I looked at that FAQ and tried everything but nothing worked.
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#13
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I cannot replace my CD-ROM drive because I have tried to replace it about 4 times with 4 different drives and the drives had never wanted to work.


Fair enough. But, to me, that sounds like a basic problem with your system, or your CD-ROM drive supplier, that I would want to get fixed, rather than just working around it by using floppies to install. Just my opinion, I'll drop it now. Sorry I don't have a better suggestion for you. Good luck.

Cheers and Regards

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#14
jumper

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I cannot replace my CD-ROM drive because I have tried to replace it about 4 times with 4 different drives and the drives had never wanted to work.

Your CD drives may be just fine--it sounds like the controller is disabled in the BIOS or you have a bad cable. Now (before you install a new system) is a very good time to revisit your BIOS settings and check all the hardware cabling.

In BIOS, make sure both IDE controllers are enabled and then have them autodetect the attached drives. I recommend putting the HDD and CDR on different controllers (different cables) both jumped as Master. Use new cables if you have any.

If you only have one good cable, you can put both drives on the same cable. Put the HDD (jumped as Master) on the end connector and the CDR (Slave) in the middle.

You will be much happier with this system once you get it running if it has a working CD drive! :yes:
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#15
coolman

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I cannot replace my CD-ROM drive because I have tried to replace it about 4 times with 4 different drives and the drives had never wanted to work.

Your CD drives may be just fine--it sounds like the controller is disabled in the BIOS or you have a bad cable. Now (before you install a new system) is a very good time to revisit your BIOS settings and check all the hardware cabling.

In BIOS, make sure both IDE controllers are enabled and then have them autodetect the attached drives. I recommend putting the HDD and CDR on different controllers (different cables) both jumped as Master. Use new cables if you have any.

If you only have one good cable, you can put both drives on the same cable. Put the HDD (jumped as Master) on the end connector and the CDR (Slave) in the middle.

You will be much happier with this system once you get it running if it has a working CD drive! :yes:

I checked my BIOS settings and everything is fine. I am 99% sure this is a good cable because it is a brand new one that I bought off eBay. I am probably going to have to get my BIOS flashed..
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#16
jumper

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I checked my BIOS settings and everything is fine. I am 99% sure this is a good cable because it is a brand new one that I bought off eBay. I am probably going to have to get my BIOS flashed..

Good. Before reflashing the BIOS, you can try resetting it (with a jumper or by removing the battery) and then reloading the BIOS defaults.

If you previously added the CD drive to the same cable as the HDD, the HDD may not have been jumpered correctly to allow the controller to see the second drive.

If you previously attached the CD drive with a separate cable to the secondary controller connector, you can try putting it on the same cable as the HDD.

The first goal would be to get both drives to be detected and show up in the BIOS setup. Then when you are booting to DOS, they should also both show up in the hardware summary screen just before DOS begins to load.

Did any of the CD drives ever get detected and show up in the BIOS setup or in the boot summary?
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#17
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The first goal would be to get both drives to be detected and show up in the BIOS setup. Then when you are booting to DOS, they should also both show up in the hardware summary screen just before DOS begins to load.

Did any of the CD drives ever get detected and show up in the BIOS setup or in the boot summary?

He may also need to disable "Silent Boot" or similar settings that would hide that list, especially on OEM computers.

#18
LostInSpace2012

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I cannot replace my CD-ROM drive because I have tried to replace it about 4 times with 4 different drives and the drives had never wanted to work.



I went through 2 used drives before I finally got one that worked. I wanted to replace it with the exact same model that was previously installed. 3rd time was the charm.

Did you make sure that the jumper pin was in the correct position on the back of the CD-Rom?

CD-Rom trouble shooting guide
http://www.techadvic.../c/cdrom_ts.htm

Jumper Pin settings
http://tips4pc.com/a..._settings_o.htm

#19
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Since the Original Poster stated that he went through four drives it pretty much rules out bad drives, period. The odds of this happening four times in a row ( barring radical human error damaging each drive ) are microscopic.

The suggestions of drive jumpering makes good sense. And in addition to setting the jumper correctly, don't forget to use the correct cable position.

The end is MASTER. The middle is SLAVE. That needs to match the jumpering he decides to use.

Have you described the motherboard, CD drive model or Operating System yet? Does the BIOS show the drive as detected? You need to offer more info!

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#20
jaclaz

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The end is MASTER. The middle is SLAVE. That needs to match the jumpering he decides to use.

IF 80 wires cables are used, which additionally are colour coded:
http://www.pcguide.c...fCable80-c.html

Older 40 wires cable did not have this limitations:
http://www.pcguide.c.../conf_Cable.htm
unless you were using a Cable Select setting (strongly discouraged by me):
http://www.pcguide.c...ide/conf_CS.htm
In case of cable select, often the Slave/Master are INVERTED when compared to the 80 Wire cables.

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#21
coolman

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I checked my BIOS settings and everything is fine. I am 99% sure this is a good cable because it is a brand new one that I bought off eBay. I am probably going to have to get my BIOS flashed..

Good. Before reflashing the BIOS, you can try resetting it (with a jumper or by removing the battery) and then reloading the BIOS defaults.

If you previously added the CD drive to the same cable as the HDD, the HDD may not have been jumpered correctly to allow the controller to see the second drive.

If you previously attached the CD drive with a separate cable to the secondary controller connector, you can try putting it on the same cable as the HDD.

The first goal would be to get both drives to be detected and show up in the BIOS setup. Then when you are booting to DOS, they should also both show up in the hardware summary screen just before DOS begins to load.

Did any of the CD drives ever get detected and show up in the BIOS setup or in the boot summary?

I got my BIOS flashed and it still doesn't recognize the CD-ROM drive.
Helicopters don't fly; they vibrate so much and make so much noise that the earth rejects them.
Oh blah, blah, blah, your needs!

#22
coolman

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I cannot replace my CD-ROM drive because I have tried to replace it about 4 times with 4 different drives and the drives had never wanted to work.



I went through 2 used drives before I finally got one that worked. I wanted to replace it with the exact same model that was previously installed. 3rd time was the charm.

Did you make sure that the jumper pin was in the correct position on the back of the CD-Rom?

CD-Rom trouble shooting guide
http://www.techadvic.../c/cdrom_ts.htm

Jumper Pin settings
http://tips4pc.com/a..._settings_o.htm

Yes.
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#23
coolman

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The first goal would be to get both drives to be detected and show up in the BIOS setup. Then when you are booting to DOS, they should also both show up in the hardware summary screen just before DOS begins to load.

Did any of the CD drives ever get detected and show up in the BIOS setup or in the boot summary?

He may also need to disable "Silent Boot" or similar settings that would hide that list, especially on OEM computers.

I don't have that in my BIOS..
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#24
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Forgetting about the built in CD drive, your best bet is to install Windows 98 from a folder on the hard drive. The trick is getting it there. Here are some possible ways to do that:

  • Pull out the hard drive, attach it to another computer, and copy the 98 setup folder directly on to it (this would be the fastest way).
  • Use a DOS based split/combine program (there are lots of them) to break up a regular Win98 setup folder in to 1.44 meg segments and transfer them a disk at a time.
  • Use a program like LapLink (there was one included with DOS 6) to transfer files over a nullmodem or laplink cable.
  • If the computer has a network card with a DOS NDIS 2 driver you could make a LanManager boot disk and transfer over a network (very, very complicated though)
  • Use an external parallel port "Backpack" CD drive, or ZIP drive.
  • If it has a compatible USB port, there is DOS USB driver that might be able to read some flash drives. Not sure how well that actually works though.

I assume this is a laptop where you can't just attach any random IDE device you want.

#25
coolman

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Forgetting about the built in CD drive, your best bet is to install Windows 98 from a folder on the hard drive. The trick is getting it there. Here are some possible ways to do that:

  • Pull out the hard drive, attach it to another computer, and copy the 98 setup folder directly on to it (this would be the fastest way).
  • Use a DOS based split/combine program (there are lots of them) to break up a regular Win98 setup folder in to 1.44 meg segments and transfer them a disk at a time.
  • Use a program like LapLink (there was one included with DOS 6) to transfer files over a nullmodem or laplink cable.
  • If the computer has a network card with a DOS NDIS 2 driver you could make a LanManager boot disk and transfer over a network (very, very complicated though)
  • Use an external parallel port "Backpack" CD drive, or ZIP drive.
  • If it has a compatible USB port, there is DOS USB driver that might be able to read some flash drives. Not sure how well that actually works though.

I assume this is a laptop where you can't just attach any random IDE device you want.

I took out the HDD and put it in another computer and it totally messed up. I tried to put it back in the other computer and now it can't even READ the drive. Also who said this was a laptop?
Helicopters don't fly; they vibrate so much and make so much noise that the earth rejects them.
Oh blah, blah, blah, your needs!




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