[coolman]

jumper, on 23 December 2012 - 12:05 AM, said:

coolman, on 22 December 2012 - 11:25 PM, said:

I checked my BIOS settings and everything is fine. I am 99% sure this is a good cable because it is a brand new one that I bought off eBay. I am probably going to have to get my BIOS flashed..

Good. Before reflashing the BIOS, you can try resetting it (with a jumper or by removing the battery) and then reloading the BIOS defaults.

If you previously added the CD drive to the same cable as the HDD, the HDD may not have been jumpered correctly to allow the controller to see the second drive.

If you previously attached the CD drive with a separate cable to the secondary controller connector, you can try putting it on the same cable as the HDD.

The first goal would be to get both drives to be detected and show up in the BIOS setup. Then when you are booting to DOS, they should also both show up in the hardware summary screen just before DOS begins to load.

Did any of the CD drives ever get detected and show up in the BIOS setup or in the boot summary?

I got my BIOS flashed and it still doesn't recognize the CD-ROM drive.

[coolman]

LostInSpace2012, on 23 December 2012 - 01:28 AM, said:

Quote

I cannot replace my CD-ROM drive because I have tried to replace it about 4 times with 4 different drives and the drives had never wanted to work.

I went through 2 used drives before I finally got one that worked. I wanted to replace it with the exact same model that was previously installed. 3rd time was the charm.

Did you make sure that the jumper pin was in the correct position on the back of the CD-Rom?

CD-Rom trouble shooting guide
http://www.techadvic.../c/cdrom_ts.htm

Jumper Pin settings
http://tips4pc.com/a..._settings_o.htm

Yes.

[coolman]

LoneCrusader, on 23 December 2012 - 12:07 AM, said:

jumper, on 23 December 2012 - 12:05 AM, said:

The first goal would be to get both drives to be detected and show up in the BIOS setup. Then when you are booting to DOS, they should also both show up in the hardware summary screen just before DOS begins to load.

Did any of the CD drives ever get detected and show up in the BIOS setup or in the boot summary?

He may also need to disable "Silent Boot" or similar settings that would hide that list, especially on OEM computers.

I don't have that in my BIOS..

[SomeGuy]

Forgetting about the built in CD drive, your best bet is to install Windows 98 from a folder on the hard drive. The trick is getting it there. Here are some possible ways to do that:

• Pull out the hard drive, attach it to another computer, and copy the 98 setup folder directly on to it (this would be the fastest way).
  
• Use a DOS based split/combine program (there are lots of them) to break up a regular Win98 setup folder in to 1.44 meg segments and transfer them a disk at a time.
  
• Use a program like LapLink (there was one included with DOS 6) to transfer files over a nullmodem or laplink cable.
  
• If the computer has a network card with a DOS NDIS 2 driver you could make a LanManager boot disk and transfer over a network (very, very complicated though)
  
• Use an external parallel port "Backpack" CD drive, or ZIP drive.
  
• If it has a compatible USB port, there is DOS USB driver that might be able to read some flash drives. Not sure how well that actually works though.

I assume this is a laptop where you can't just attach any random IDE device you want.

[coolman]

SomeGuy, on 23 December 2012 - 12:16 PM, said:

Forgetting about the built in CD drive, your best bet is to install Windows 98 from a folder on the hard drive. The trick is getting it there. Here are some possible ways to do that:

• Pull out the hard drive, attach it to another computer, and copy the 98 setup folder directly on to it (this would be the fastest way).
  
• Use a DOS based split/combine program (there are lots of them) to break up a regular Win98 setup folder in to 1.44 meg segments and transfer them a disk at a time.
  
• Use a program like LapLink (there was one included with DOS 6) to transfer files over a nullmodem or laplink cable.
  
• If the computer has a network card with a DOS NDIS 2 driver you could make a LanManager boot disk and transfer over a network (very, very complicated though)
  
• Use an external parallel port "Backpack" CD drive, or ZIP drive.
  
• If it has a compatible USB port, there is DOS USB driver that might be able to read some flash drives. Not sure how well that actually works though.

I assume this is a laptop where you can't just attach any random IDE device you want.

I took out the HDD and put it in another computer and it totally messed up. I tried to put it back in the other computer and now it can't even READ the drive. Also who said this was a laptop?

[coolman]

But seriously guys, this thread is supposed to be about 98 on floppy disks, not copying anything over an HDD or CD-ROM.

[LostInSpace2012]

Just install Windows 95.

It requires less disks, it's easier to find Win95 on floppy than Win98.

Only requires 15 floppy disks, instead of 39 :-)


Check this out. $25 for a mint copy of Win95 on floppy disk
http://www.ebay.com/...=item337eb7c912

This post has been edited by LostInSpace2012: 23 December 2012 - 03:01 PM

[coolman]

LostInSpace2012, on 23 December 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

Just install Windows 95.

It requires less disks, it's easier to find Win95 on floppy than Win98.

Only requires 15 floppy disks, instead of 39 :-)


Check this out. $25 for a mint copy of Win95 on floppy disk
http://www.ebay.com/...=item337eb7c912

I will look into that.

[LostInSpace2012]

CharlotteTheHarlot said:

Quote

Since the Original Poster stated that he went through four drives it pretty much rules out bad drives, period. The odds of this happening four times in a row ( barring radical human error damaging each drive ) are microscopic.

Wrong.

The original poster never stated whether or not the 4 drives he purchased were new or second-hand. It is very possible to buy used drives off ebay (or any computer store that sells re-used parts) that are listed in "working" condition, only to have them arrive at your house, and after installing them find out they dont' work. Because it happened to me numerous times, not just with CD-Roms, but with modems as well. I don't think the odds are anywhere remotely close to "microscopic." If you factor in the following variables: damage from the post office, not marked as "fragile", the person selling the item didn't test the drive, it was dropped by the mail workers, it was too cold outside, too much moisture/humidity in the mailbox, etc etc etc.

It's not a microscopic possibility of getting 4 consecutive broken CD-Roms....if.... they are used, that is.

Until we have ALL the facts, especially concerning the "newness" of his CD-Roms, and how much human error it takes to become "Radical," we don't know how microscopic the odds are. Period. Anything can happen. Maybe he DID get 4 broken drives in a row.

Not trying to be a jerk about this, just trying to be methodical.

This post has been edited by LostInSpace2012: 24 December 2012 - 01:39 AM

[bphlpt]

Since the OP apparently has access to another computer:

coolman, on 23 December 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

[...]
I took out the HDD and put it in another computer and it totally messed up.
[...]

he should be able to put the 4 "broken" CD-ROM drives into the other computer to verify that they truly are broken. We are assuming that he will be careful that they will be plugged into an appropriate cable and that the jumpers on the HDDs and the CD-ROM drives will be set to not conflict in any way.

Cheers and Regards

[CharlotteTheHarlot]

LostInSpace2012, on 24 December 2012 - 01:24 AM, said:

Wrong.

The original poster never stated whether or not the 4 drives he purchased were new or second-hand. It is very possible to buy used drives off ebay (or any computer store that sells re-used parts) that are listed in "working" condition, only to have them arrive at your house, and after installing them find out they dont' work. Because it happened to me numerous times, not just with CD-Roms, but with modems as well. I don't think the odds are anywhere remotely close to "microscopic." If you factor in the following variables: damage from the post office, not marked as "fragile", the person selling the item didn't test the drive, it was dropped by the mail workers, it was too cold outside, too much moisture/humidity in the mailbox, etc etc etc.

It's not a microscopic possibility of getting 4 consecutive broken CD-Roms....if.... they are used, that is.

Until we have ALL the facts, especially concerning the "newness" of his CD-Roms, and how much human error it takes to become "Radical," we don't know how microscopic the odds are. Period. Anything can happen. Maybe he DID get 4 broken drives in a row.

Not trying to be a jerk about this, just trying to be methodical.

I like methodical. If I stuck four new or used optical drives in a row into a computer and they do not get recognized I will then give my full attention to everything other than the drives. Cables can be defective. Ports ( interfaces in this case ) can be blown. A myriad of BIOS settings can be FUBAR. But most common, and the first place to go at this juncture is making sure the jumper matches the cable position ( but also remember what Jaclaz mentioned about Cable Select ).

One drive bad can easily happen. Two, I can also accept. Three is Clark. W. Griswold bad luck. Four is getting close to lightning strike chances. Again, this is regardless of new or used since it happens either way in my own experience.

Radical human error might be jamming the IDE cable in upside down and having a pin smashed by a keyed filled hole or something else.

Of course we both know that the solution is to take these so-called bad drives and drop them in a machine that is working. Also, I didn't mean to imply that there is zero probability of four bad ones in a row, it is definitely non-zero, but I'll stand by Microscopic probability on this one.

@coolman, sorry if I missed it, but did you mention the motherboard model and BIOS? Is there any chance of a screenshot of the first BIOS page, the one that shows the hard drive and other IDE positions.

P.S. the setting "Silent Boot" mentioned by LoneCrusader can also by worded differently. "Fast Boot". "Intel Logo" ( or Compaq, eMachines etc ) or other phrasing. He is talking about the setting that bypasses the DOS information messages and instead shows nothing or an Intel logo or OEM branding. That DOS screen should show you if it is being detected or if there is some delay as it tries to enumerate it. Anyway, I am not clear on what you tried. I would first try master on secondary channel ( end of 2nd cable ), then slave on secondary channel ( middle connector on 2nd cable ), then slave on primary meaning the same cable as the boot drive ( middle connector again ) if it is physically possible to do this ( tight spaces, etc ). Trying these three possible positions means moving the jumper to match.

There is a less probable case that the motherboard is a real fast booter and tries to enumerate the drives before they have a chance to spin up. This can be fixed by setting the memory test to NOT "quick" and while it rolls through all your RAM the hard drives have a chance to complete power-on. If you get my meaning, then you will also understand that you can optionally just warm boot immediately after a bad startup ( optical not recognized ) by immediately doing ALT-F4 and RESTART in Windows.

EDIT: wording, typos

This post has been edited by CharlotteTheHarlot: 24 December 2012 - 04:33 AM

[os2fan2]

You might be able to copy the files through a share from a PC with a working cdrom. You could use cross-over network cables, or even something like 'interlink' cables, which are cross-over patch cables.

The alternate is to extract the hard disk, and load the files onto it through an external hard drive. This is how i usually install OS/2 2.x on vm machines (where the cdrom is not seen by the install).

[jaclaz]

Probabilities is a tricky field.

If you assign a very high percentage to the probability of a CD drive to NOT work, when you try first one you have 50% possibilities.
So if first one fails, when you try the second, you are doing that because you fell in the 50% of the first one failing.
Then when you try the third, you are doing that because you fell in the 50% of the second failing, thus in the 50% of the intial 50%. i.e. 25%
Then when you try the fourth, you are doing that because you fell in the 50% of the third failing thus 50% of the 25%, i.e. 12.5%.
With a fifth you are at 6.25%
With a sixth at 3.125%.
With a seventh at 1.5625%.
With an eigth at 0.78125%.

Hence you need to try 8 CD drives to have probabilities less than 1%, assuming that there is a 50% probability that a CD drive got for a few bucks on e-bay or similar actually works.

BUT, if you assume that the probability of a CD drive not working is lower than that (i.e. you trust in the good faith and honesty of the sellers, let's say that they are 80% like that) like 20%, you have:
second 20% of 20%= 4%
third 20% of 4% = 0.8%
fourth 20%of 0.8%= 0.16%

jaclaz

This post has been edited by jaclaz: 24 December 2012 - 06:19 AM

[SomeGuy]

coolman, on 23 December 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

I took out the HDD and put it in another computer and it totally messed up. I tried to put it back in the other computer and now it can't even READ the drive. Also who said this was a laptop?

What exactly did you do after you attached it to the other computer? Just copying some files in would never mess anything up. You didn't try and reformat it did you?

It should be FDISKed and formatted on the original computer with the Win9x utilities. Once in a while sometimes newer partition utilities can do things Windows 9x doesn't like. Also, it must be formatted FAT or FAT32, not NTFS or EXT.

If your computer's bios setup isn't seeing the drive at all, then double check your cable and jumper setting.

If we are talking about a normal desktop PC then that also opens up the possibility of attaching other standard IDE drives to get the files in there. Such as attaching a second hard drive, or a CD drive borrowed from another machine. You can even use SATA to IDE converters like the Vantec CB-SP200 (just avoid the Kingwin garbage) to attach SATA drives.

[Joseph_sw]

just remainder,
if its original win95 (not the OSR2 or later),
the HDD must be no more than 2 GB (dunno about the exact size/geometrical limit)
and must be formated FAT16, not even FAT32

[coolman]

bphlpt, on 24 December 2012 - 01:44 AM, said:

Since the OP apparently has access to another computer:

coolman, on 23 December 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

[...]
I took out the HDD and put it in another computer and it totally messed up.
[...]

he should be able to put the 4 "broken" CD-ROM drives into the other computer to verify that they truly are broken. We are assuming that he will be careful that they will be plugged into an appropriate cable and that the jumpers on the HDDs and the CD-ROM drives will be set to not conflict in any way.

Cheers and Regards

I put the 4 CD-ROM drives in the other computer and they worked perfectly. It must be a problem with the other computer.

This post has been edited by coolman: 24 December 2012 - 11:56 AM

[georg]

There is another way to skin this cat.

Google external portable cd-rom drive parallel port

or backpack cdrom drive parallel port

http://reviews.cnet...._7-5084670.html

http://www.pcworld.c...57/article.html

There were a number of vendors with creative ways to add a CD ROM.

http://www.atarimaga...CDROM_to_go.php

I have a Sun Moon Star 31-144 that uses a Matsus***a CR583J CD ROM drive. (forum software deleted what it sees as a dirty word from middle of brand name.) The date on the DOS install disk files is 17 Sep 1996. Drivers for DOS/ Win 3.1/ Win95.

This drive was used to install software on laptops that lacked both CD ROM and USB, when programs got big, and were no longer sold on floppy disks.

[bphlpt]

coolman, on 24 December 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

I put the 4 CD-ROM drives in the other computer and they worked perfectly. It must be a problem with the other computer.

Looks like it is time to strip the broken computer down to bare metal, clean everything, check all wires and connectors, reset the BIOS, and start over from scratch to get it back together.

Cheers and Regards

[submix8c]

Ummm...

Might I point out that the OP never mentioned whether it was a BIOS-recognize problem or an OS-recognize problem.

Also, moving an HDD Compaq<->not-Compaq may screw up data IF accessed. HP/Compaq sometimes have "strange" HDD Translations. All depends on the computers involved.

(noting that the OP has not ONCE said what computers are involved)
Edit (is this one?)

We will NOT provide a "download location" of Win98-Floppy, so if you REALLY want that, go buy it somewhere.

This post has been edited by submix8c: 25 December 2012 - 10:44 AM

[coolman]

So I'll just install 95. Thanks anyway.