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[Solved] BSoD on startup

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#1
Zapeth

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Hello, here I am with a new problem :P

Everytime I want to boot up my Windows 98 SE system, I get a Bluescreen before he loads up the login screen (so the autoexec.bat is still called successfully and shows up on the screen).
I took a picture of it.

I believe this is because of some conflict with my Sound Card (Diamond Monster MX300) and nusb (3.5) because previously when I didn't had the sound card plugged in I had no problem booting up.
After inserting the sound card and installing its drivers however, the bluescreen occured. At first I thought it was some driver issue of the sound card (because it occured when the SoundBlaster emulation driver of the card was being installed) but after I reformmatted and reinstalled the system I could install the card just fine (there are also no sound issues with it).
Then I tried to install nusb again just to experience the Bluescreen after a reboot so it has to be some kind of conflict (I believe he crashes when either the usb or the sound card drivers are loaded but I'm not sure).
Now I would like to have usb 2.0 support for my system but I also want the sound card to run with it (since the win98 system is the last one to fully support it).

So I hope you guys can either help me fixing this conflict so I can have both nusb and the sound card running on the system or suggest me some kind of alternative to nusb that I can try out to see if it works any better ;)

Edited by Zapeth, 07 January 2013 - 09:33 AM.



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#2
TmEE

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Go to Device Manager in safe mode and remove ALL USB devices and controllers aswell as the sound card and see what happens on next reboot.
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#3
submix8c

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Yup -
Instructions for Install is right here along with the download.
Here is what's considered to be the "stablest" version (same topic, first post) and same instructions.

Also go here and start at Post #858.

Edited by submix8c, 04 January 2013 - 05:15 PM.

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#4
Zapeth

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Go to Device Manager in safe mode and remove ALL USB devices and controllers aswell as the sound card and see what happens on next reboot.

I did that at least for the sound card already, after that I could boot again but when reinstalling the drivers I just had the same issue again after a restart.
The problem is that when I want to install nusb (but have the sound card already installed) he only copies the relevant files into the system folders and then reboots but I never get to the process where he actually installs the device in the device manager, the bluescreen comes before that (or did I understand something wrong here?).

Besides I fear the issue is deeper than just an unstable version of something but I'll try it out with the other version and perhaps again with reinstalling the drivers when I have some free time ;)

@edit from submix: sry but what should I get from that? That I should try out USB20DRV.EXE instead? If it makes USB's supportable again I'll gladly try it :P
Besides I also found out something about an "USB2.0_v2.06.exe" that was floating around at some point in the net but I could only find a link on a ftp which requires access permissions -> ftp://www.siig.com/USB2.0_v2.06.exe
Could it be that that is the same file?

Edited by Zapeth, 04 January 2013 - 05:27 PM.


#5
submix8c

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NO it is NOT the same! Follow the links I gave, do some reading, AND follow the NUSB Install Instructions (right in the links - REQUIRED or FAIL)! The Instructions given to you was NOT for the Sound Card! The only other item that MIGHT get you (???) is an IRQ Conflict (but BSOD???).

Edited by submix8c, 04 January 2013 - 06:21 PM.

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#6
LoneCrusader

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IMO, you should always install NUSB and any other Operating System updates BEFORE you attempt to install add on (or even onboard) cards.

Are you using a USB Keyboard or Mouse? If so these count as USB Devices and must be removed also. See this thread (applies more directly to the USP, but applies to NUSB as well).

EDIT: And DO NOT! use USB20DRV.EXE.

Edited by LoneCrusader, 04 January 2013 - 09:05 PM.


#7
Zapeth

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NO it is NOT the same! Follow the links I gave, do some reading, AND follow the NUSB Install Instructions (right in the links - REQUIRED or FAIL)! The Instructions given to you was NOT for the Sound Card!

I'm aware that those instructions are not for the soundcard. A fact that I did overlook though is that I always had a VIA USB 2.0 Host Controller driver package installed before installing NUSB. But that didn't gave me any problems since the system was working fine before installing the soundcard.
Also the whole "Remove ALL unknown devices." will be difficult for me since 3 of them are onboard and practically "unremovable".
In any case I did a fresh Win98 install where I only installed the drivers that were recognized by Windows itself (nothing else) and ended up with these unrecognized devices
PCI Ethernet Controller
PCI Multimedia Audio Device (sound card)
PCI Multimedia Audio Device (onboard)
PCI Universal Serial Bus
And I have those items in the Universal Serial Bus controller section:
USB Root Hub
USB Root Hub
USB Root Hub
VIA Tech 3038 PCI to USB Universal Host Controller
VIA Tech 3038 PCI to USB Universal Host Controller
VIA Tech 3038 PCI to USB Universal Host Controller
Now my question is, should I remove any of these before doing the NUSB install? And once I install it, should I install the VIA USB 2.0 Host Controller driver package afterwards or should I leave it with that?

Are you using a USB Keyboard or Mouse? If so these count as USB Devices and must be removed also. See this thread (applies more directly to the USP, but applies to NUSB as well).

I work with a PS/2 mouse and keyboard, currently there are no USB devices connected whatsoever.

Edited by Zapeth, 05 January 2013 - 04:23 AM.


#8
Joseph_sw

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boot with bootlog enabled,
after the bluescreen, reboot to command prompt only,
examine the content from bootlog.txt.
look for content like "fail" or "error"

Edited by Joseph_sw, 05 January 2013 - 06:29 AM.


#9
Zapeth

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I did that previously but hadn't the time to get it off the computer until now. I also looked through it but couldn't find anything relevant except these lines at the beginning:
[00104A34] Loading Vxd = ndis2sup.vxd
[00104A35] LoadFailed = ndis2sup.vxd
However I didn't boot into cmd afterwards but rather into safe mode, I hope that doesn't make any difference?

I also have it uploaded with the .prv file included, maybe you could take a quick look? -> http://www.mediafire...2oq25k930aqjxud

Edited by Zapeth, 05 January 2013 - 08:35 AM.


#10
submix8c

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I question the purpose of using NUSB if you already have VIA USB 2.0 Drivers. If it's not broke, don't fix it.

Hmm... this and this seems to be where this all started from.

Perhaps it would best serve you to provide SPECIFIC hardware make/model beyond just the Hard Disk and Sound Card.

should I remove any of these before doing the NUSB install? And once I install it, should I install the VIA USB 2.0 Host Controller driver package afterwards or should I leave it with that?

The Install Instructions are pretty explicit -
1 - DO WHAT IT SAYS - EVERYTHING!
2 - NO, do NOT use any other USB Drivers! That's what NUSB is supposed to do. You defeat the purpose and cause failures.

Edited by submix8c, 05 January 2013 - 10:14 AM.

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#11
Zapeth

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I question the purpose of using NUSB if you already have VIA USB 2.0 Drivers. If it's not broke, don't fix it.

Maybe I understood something wrong here. But Windows 98SE definitely doesn't recognize any USB devices I connect to it when I just have the VIA drivers installed.
And as I said earlier, the system ran just fine with both the VIA USB drivers and NUSB installed previously with the only difference, that I actually could connect USB devices to it.

Hmm... this and this seems to be where this all started from.

I never used at any point non-official software except for NUSB

Perhaps it would best serve you to provide SPECIFIC hardware make/model beyond just the Hard Disk and Sound Card.

Do you mean list all the hardware I have in my PC? Alright,
Motherboard: MSI KT3 Ultra2-C VIA KT333 Chipset based
CPU: AMD Athlon XP 2400+
Graphics Card: Voodoo5 5500 AGP
Sound Card: Diamond Monster MX300
RAM: 512 MB (I do not know any more details than that)

And an IDE 20GB HDD, DVD drive and a Floppy drive
All the drivers I installed were taken from the official websites or were at least officially released by the manufacturers and I did my best to get the latest for each device.

edit:

The Install Instructions are pretty explicit -
1 - DO WHAT IT SAYS - EVERYTHING!

Also the whole "Remove ALL unknown devices." will be difficult for me since 3 of them are onboard and practically "unremovable".

And how should I solve that?

edit2: Okay, I didn't know that you could actually remove unknown devices from the device manager, shame on me :P

Edited by Zapeth, 05 January 2013 - 10:53 AM.


#12
submix8c

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OK, that helps - Refresh this page and look at my last post. You haven't been following instructions. ;)

Addendum - That file listed in the Boot Log has nothing to do with NUSB. You are causing a failed 98SE install by ignoring instructions. There is MORE than just USB Drivers in the package. Extract it with (e.g.) 7-Zip and have a look-see!

edit - and PERHAPS the Sound Card is causing some kind of "conflict" with USB (IRQ, Memory, etc.).

Edited by submix8c, 05 January 2013 - 10:21 AM.

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#13
Zapeth

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Okay, this time I tried my best to follow the instructions ;)

Went into safe mode, removed all USB related devices/drivers in the driver manager as well as all unknown devices. Then I did a reboot, again into safe mode (I did a quick check in the device manager to make sure that all those devices were still removed) and installed NUSB 3.3
After that again a restart, he found all the removed devices again as well as the USB drivers. He also asked me if I should overwrite some files with older ones (usb related), I said no to each. Then he also found a VIA USB 2.0 Controller though he offered me to simply install it as a normal VIA USB Controller, I did the recommendation (the first one).
Then again a reboot and after that I installed the graphic drivers. That went fine and after that I tried it again with the sound card.

Drivers were located, he went on with the installation and again, when he got to (the end of) the SoundBlaster emulation driver (that's just the last of the drivers that gets installed for the sound card so I'm not sure if the problem is related with that exact driver) I got a bluescreen again :(
I also did a second bootlog but as far as I can tell it's the same as the previous one.

I guess I'll just reformat the whole thing again and do an installation without NUSB, I still can use linux to transfer files from an USB device to the hard drive.

If someone comes up with another suggestion, I'll gladly try it though :P

Edited by Zapeth, 05 January 2013 - 11:10 AM.


#14
submix8c

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Too bad you didn't write down WHICH "files to overwrite", as EXPLORER.EXE Date is OLDER than 98SE's "stock" one.

Also, is this the driver you're using for the sound card? Give it a shot...

Then he also found a VIA USB 2.0 Controller though he offered me to simply install it as a normal VIA USB Controller, I did the recommendation (the first one).

Sorry, I don't understand that.

This (even though no reply given) implies that the card needs to be in a different slot? I've had some "oddball" cards that refused to function properly unless moved.

Looking for something on Monster and so far found not much useful.
AH!! Found the User Guide.
http://178.63.46.56/users/files/24f/67/436_Driver_pour_Diamond_Multimedia_MX300.pdf
FWIW, here's a newer Beta Driver for it
http://ftp.isu.edu.tw/pub/Hardware/multimedia/Diamond/MonsterSoundII/102rel.exe

Edited by submix8c, 05 January 2013 - 11:59 AM.

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#15
Zapeth

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Too bad you didn't write down WHICH "files to overwrite", as EXPLORER.EXE Date is OLDER than 98SE's "stock" one.

Oh I didn't know that (nor did I read it anywhere in the nusb thread). I guess I'll retry the install without the explorer.exe being replaced because I believe that he crashes when he is trying to execute it (or running it).
However I'm fairly sure that there wasn't an explorer.exe amongst the files he asked me to keep/overwrite.

Also, is this the driver you're using for the sound card? Give it a shot...

I can't open that link, do you have some kind of special browser?
Anyway, I'm using the 2050 drivers, I tried it before with 2048 but it seems that both don't work. I guess I can try it with an older version but I would prefer to use the latest drivers.

Sorry, I don't understand that.

Okay then I'll explain exactly what happened:
After the NUSB files were installed and I did a reboot, he went through the whole device installation process again. First he automatically installed a "VIA Tech 3038 PCI to USB Universal Host Controller", after that he installed an USB Root Hub.
Then he prompted me with a device installation window where I had the choice to choose from a list or use the recommended driver.
The recommended driver was a "VIA VT 8235 USB 2.0 Enhanced Host Controller" and the one from the list was the one he installed previously, "VIA Tech 3038 PCI to USB Universal Host Controller".
And I chose to install the 2.0 controller.

#16
submix8c

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Look at my previous post - I edited it.

That link you can't get to is the HP Website. You must be using a browser that doesn't work.
Here's the link to it ("Original v1 Driver")
ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/softpaq/sp16001-16500/sp16454.exe

The "older date" file in NUSB is the one you want. I would say you need to start from "scratch" (reinstall the OS) and do NOT install Via USB Drivers at ALL (if you have a Driver Install Package)!!! Let the OS do the USB stuff. Then, install the Sound Card to see if you are still OK. THEN follow the NUSB Instructions TO THE LETTER. I'm betting you've "horked" the OS by doing things wrong.

You ARE aware that you need to install the VIA Chipset Drivers after your Initial Install, aren't you?

This your MotherBoard (one has Network, one does Not)? Chipset Drivers are there... DO NOT install the USB Drivers! You want the NUSB Replacement!!! (Documentation for two different SouthBridge)

Odd, it says it already has OnBoard Sound - you want to use the Diamond instead? DISABLE The Onboard in the BIOS (or SOMEWHERE)!!!

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#17
Zapeth

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Look at my previous post - I edited it.

That link you can't get to is the HP Website. You must be using a browser that doesn't work.
Here's the link to it ("Original v1 Driver")

ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/softpaq/sp16001-16500/sp16454.exe

I got it now, it was some problem with my router/firewall.
I'm actually using the reference drivers for the sound card (the official ones from Aureal), not the ones from the manufacturer (Diamond) himself since they are very outdated compared to the reference ones. You can find them by searching for the Aureal AU8830 drivers and they should work fine with the sound card itself (actually they do work fine since I already tried them).

The "older date" file in NUSB is the one you want. I would say you need to start from "scratch" (reinstall the OS) and do NOT install Via USB Drivers at ALL (if you have a Driver Install Package)!!! Let the OS do the USB stuff. Then, install the Sound Card to see if you are still OK. THEN follow the NUSB Instructions TO THE LETTER. I'm betting you've "horked" the OS by doing things wrong.

Ok then, just to get things straight:
1) Reformat and reinstall Windows
2) Let Windows install all drivers (only those that are found on the Win98 disk and on the system itself)
3) Install the VIA Chipset drivers (those are actually in a package as you can see in the MSI download section, should I install all of its contents anyway?)
4) Install the Sound Card drivers (I actually did those steps already so I can say for sure that the sound card works and the OS boots well at this point)
5) Install NUSB:
5a) Boot into safemode and remove all the previously found USB relevant devices in the device manager as well as all devices that are listed as unrecognized/unknown
5b) Reboot again into safemode (otherwise all those devices I removed previously will be gone) and install NUSB (but without overwriting the explorer.exe?)
5c) Reboot into normal OS, hope that everything goes well and install the USB stuff as I did previously? (with the 2.0 controller install)

This your MotherBoard (one has Network, one does Not)? Chipset Drivers are there... DO NOT install the USB Drivers! You want the NUSB Replacement!!! (Documentation for two different SouthBridge)

Yes that's my MB but I don't have the CL version, just C (Standard version).
Also I didn't touch the VIA USB drivers in my last attempt, that was all NUSB only.

Odd, it says it already has OnBoard Sound - you want to use the Diamond instead? DISABLE The Onboard in the BIOS (or SOMEWHERE)!!!

Yes I want to use the sound card instead, I'll disable the Onboard sound before reinstalling Win98.

Edited by Zapeth, 05 January 2013 - 01:06 PM.


#18
submix8c

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You got it EXCEPT!!! 5a and 5b - The Instructions say NOTHING about "safe mode". Combine into "Remove Devices then Install NUSB then Reboot". Re-read the Instructions. And let NUSB files "stomp" on any other files...

Yes, you probably are causing a conflict between the OnBoard and Add-In. BIOS has a place to disable - disable ALL Onboard sound-related devices (Midi/Game and AC97). (I snagged the manual to double-check)

?Hopefully the Aureal Reference Drivers are OK - one would "assume" they are (you said so)...

Fair Warning - I will "assume" that NUSB would be installed LAST after any other Official Updates. Unofficial are a bit trickier (NUSB is one of them). Example - some updates WILL install a different Explorer (IE6? Can't remember).

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#19
Zapeth

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You got it EXCEPT!!! 5a and 5b - The Instructions say NOTHING about "safe mode". Combine into "Remove Devices then Install NUSB then Reboot". Re-read the Instructions. And let NUSB files "stomp" on any other files...

So ignore all that stuff about explorer.exe?
Also after the reboot when he asks me to overwrite some files should I keep all files I already have? (since nothing of that is mentioned in the instructions)
They were all newer files and he wnated them to overwrite with older ones so I guess I should keep them.

Yes, you probably are causing a conflict between the OnBoard and Add-In. BIOS has a place to disable - disable ALL Onboard sound-related devices (Midi/Game and AC97). (I snagged the manual to double-check)

Yes it has. Should I disable Midi/Game aswell?

Fair Warning - I will "assume" that NUSB would be installed LAST after any other Official Updates. Unofficial are a bit trickier (NUSB is one of them). Example - some updates WILL install a different Explorer (IE6? Can't remember).

Are you suggesting I should do some other installations before installing NUSB like IE6SP1?

#20
TmEE

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MY experience from PIII era VIA chipsets is that you got to install the chipset driver as soon as possible or you may run into some severe stability problems.
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#21
submix8c

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1 - On Reboot let it do WHATEVER and do NOT say "no" to anything!
2 - YES, I said ALL sound-related (your card has all of that)
3 - YES, it's always best to install Official FIRST and then Unofficial if you're doing individuals.

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#22
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I think he got the "Safe Mode" point from one of my posts in another thread. I told him to remove all instances of his USB HDD in Safe Mode (because installed devices not currently connected don't show up in Normal Mode, but do in Safe Mode.)

This is the order that I use when setting up a new system; it may be no better or worse than anyone else's here.

REMOVE ALL add in cards (except Video of course) and DISABLE ALL onboard Audio, LAN, Modem, etc in the BIOS.
Install Windows 98SE.
Install DirectX 9.0C.
Install Motherboard Chipset Drivers.
Install Video Card Drivers.
Install IE6SP1.
Install WMP7.1 (or WMP9 if you prefer, or ignore this step if you don't use WMP).
Install NUSB.
Install any other Official or "Unofficial" Updates you plan to use at this point. In my case RLoew's RAM Limitation Patch for example.
(As you can see I prefer to update various pieces of the OS BEFORE introducing 3rd party software/drivers as much as possible)
Install Sound Card (insert add on card or re-enable onboard in the BIOS, whichever you're going to use).
Install Sound Card Drivers.
Install/enable LAN card..... and continue the process.

Installing/Enabling new devices one at a time decreases the chances for conflicts and allows you to pinpoint where & when issues arise.

Edited by LoneCrusader, 06 January 2013 - 03:46 AM.


#23
Zapeth

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I think he got the "Safe Mode" point from one of my posts in another thread. I told him to remove all instances of his USB HDD in Safe Mode (because installed devices not currently connected don't show up in Normal Mode, but do in Safe Mode.)

Yes indeed :)

Anyway, this time I did exactly what I described before (with the difference that I did install the ie6sp1 after installing the chipset and the NUSB installation according to the intructions which means I did not go into safe mode at all and did the device removal and installation in one session) and here's how it went:
Up to the NUSB install everything went fine (no surprise). When I finally did install NUSB and rebooted he actually managed to boot up (maybe because the drivers were not yet installed?).
So I logged in and he installed all the devices as I described earlier, this time I wrote down the files he asked me for (I said yes each time which means he kept those (newer) files):
uhcd.sys
usbd.sys
usbhub.sys

Then he wanted me to point him to these files which I found in the according folders:
hotplug.dll - windows/temp/ixp000.tmp (this has to be the nusb temp install folder right?)
usbui.dll - win98 cd (found that one nowhere else)

Shortly after that that file process happened again (because there are two devices which are the same, namely VIA Tech 3038 PCI to USB Universal Host Controller?) and I did everything as before.
Alright that went fine too, then he found a (yet) uninstalled device (network adapter) and went into explorer. So I rebooted the system (according to NUSB instructions) and was greeted with yet another bluescreen. This one was a little different but a bluescreen nonetheless and at the same point of booting up:
Posted Image

I believe it actually is some conflict with the NUSB drivers and the sound card drivers. Perhaps someone with the same sound card can try it out to confirm this issue?
And no I won't try installing different drivers (at least for the sound card) nor will I try to install the drivers in different ways since I strongly doubt that it has to do anything with that (sure it won't hurt if one does everything according to instructions but it doesn't mean that it's the one and only way to do it).
I actually tried to swap back to the old explorer.exe after this whole installation (since it wouldn't matter, the bluescreen is already there and won't go away and I'm going to reinstall everything anyway) but that also made no difference.

So unless someone comes up with a whole new suggestion other than "sticking directly to instructions" I'll just let this problem rest in peace and accept that NUSB has no place in my system. As I said before, I can still help myself with linux (for copying data), it might be a little bit laborious but does work.

Thanks to all people here anyway who tried to help, I really appreciate it ;)

Edited by Zapeth, 06 January 2013 - 05:06 AM.


#24
submix8c

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Anyway, this time I did exactly what I described before (with the difference that I did install the ie6sp1 after installing the chipset and the NUSB installation according to the intructions which means I did not go into safe mode at all and did the device removal and installation in one session)

No, you did NOT! I specifically told you NUSB AFTER IE6, as did LoneCrusader!

Install Windows 98SE.
Install DirectX 9.0C.
Install Motherboard Chipset Drivers.
Install Video Card Drivers.
Install IE6SP1. <--see this?
Install WMP7.1 (or WMP9 if you prefer, or ignore this step if you don't use WMP).
Install NUSB. <--see this?

Maybe it IS best you "give up" since you refuse to follow instructions.

If it works, don't fix it. I gave links to where this all started from (post #18 pointing to YOUR Topics). If there is no issue without NUSB, don't bother...

note: NUSB doesn't cure everything in regards to USB-attached Devices. Read the NUSB Thread for more info. ;)

Edited by submix8c, 06 January 2013 - 10:51 AM.

Someday the tyrants will be unthroned... Jason "Jay" Chasteen; RIP, bro!

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#25
LoneCrusader

LoneCrusader

    Resistere pro causa resistentiam.

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I SERIOUSLY doubt that NUSB is the root cause of your troubles.

For the record, NUSB extracts copies of all the "new" files it installs to C:\WINDOWS\OPTIONS\CABS so if any files are requested during driver installation, the installer should be directed there.

The version of EXPLORER you are using is irrelevant.

If you had a "Network Adapter" show up during the installation of USB devices, then you must not have disabled it in the BIOS. ;)

If you insist on claiming that NUSB is the cause and refuse to entertain the possibility that the Sound Card and/or its drivers may be the problem, then there's not much more we can do to help you.

If you want "no frills" external USB Drive support, you can check out RLoew's USB Storage Drivers. Scroll down to "USB" and download "USB.ZIP."

Edited by LoneCrusader, 06 January 2013 - 01:51 PM.





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