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xmf

NIC and WPA Votes

53 posts in this topic

I'm not sure what could be considered "dirty" about my post. I have a legit copy of windows and am simply seeking info to help me avoid needing to re-activate. If there's anything dirty here, it's MS' practice of supplying stickers that don't withstand laptop usage, and reaping money from customers that then need to re-purchase products - but that's a separate issue.

Well like I said, read their rules here. I was just giving you a friendly heads up about zero tolerance for discussing things like circumvention. I apologize if you misinterpreted my comment, I didn't mean to imply you were going to do anything dirty.

Anyway, I can confirm from seeing many laptops, even some a couple years old that those stupid stickers can easily wear off. What I always do is take photos of every sticker. The ones that are real bad can sometimes be read if you play with them in a good photo-editor, invert ( negative ) and play with brightness, contrast, intensity, and some other effects.

If it is totally gone, you should at least have the manufacturer part number and serial number ( also on the bottom but on much more durable stickers ) which is proof of a model run that was obviously delivered with a genuine Windows installation. The manufacturer themselves might be convinced to look it up in their records. I don't know if you are here in the USA, but in addition to federal agencies every state has numerous bureaucracies that deal with consumer protection. The big guns are in the state attorney generals' offices who seem to enjoy going after companies that commit fraud or other malfeasance. I would tell them that Microsoft and/or your manufacturer are trying to defraud you by not supplying you with the legitimate Windows product key that has worn off your netbook. I have always wondered when someone was going to challenge this practice ( maybe it has already happened? ) of putting those non-durable stickers on the bottom and not on the keyboard where the Intel logo is placed. IMHO it is deliberate negligence and deserves class action. And why didn't Microsoft, who has so much to say about OEM practices not demand that the stickers be placed in a sensible area? A cynical person might think it was intentional planned obsolescence again.

BTW, I'm pretty sure that if you never entered that key from the sticker into a Windows prompt, it will not be found in the registry or anywhere else. Others should take a lesson from this and remember to write down or photograph their sticker as soon as possible.

If you have an old registry export saved from this computer, you can retrieve the digital product ID ( an often changing hash value ) and try to import it and see if activation is satisfied. That would be legal since it is the same exact computer, but I am going to stop there with my advice.

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Just in case:

page__st__7

jaclaz

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1 Freaking? That's a stretch considering you are interpreting based on a forum discussion. 2 And one of the main reasons I started this discussion is because (as I previously stated) I was told by a rep at MS that I would be out of luck if my hardware change on XP SP3 required me to reactivate and I didn't have the key from the MS sticker.

3 Also, this is not a conspiracy :sneaky: I have a netbook, a (now older) Dell laptop, and a desktop. 4 I also thought that maybe ASUS could provide the activation key on the worn sticker based off of my netbook's serial # but I called them and they could not. 5 However, as you and others in this thread are stating, I should not need that anyway.

1 - Nope, not a stretch - it "devolved" into it.

2 - MS First-Level Rep (somewhere on the other side of the Pacific, no doubt)? Those have real genius (called a Q&A "handbook")!

3 - Never said that - there are, however, implications based upon this topic. You never said that the (unknown) Netbook was OEM-anything (going back through your old posts).

4 - You acknowledged in your first post it was a KEY, different than Product ID and Activation Code (those are what you supply/get when phone-activating). Correct terminology and AGAIN the Internal Key (if indeed pre-installed) is different from the COA key (says so everywhere on the net).

5 - Not if OEM Pre-Install or Single-Used Key - just make a phone call (all of which I gave a link to) in case.

It was suggested that you retain your original HDD just in case. If your COA key is "gone" then it's STILL highly recommended to use a KeyFinder FIRST.

Your choice. :yes:

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When the author mentions disabling, they don't specifically mention on what level (bios/within xp) and to what degree (wifi only, lan only, etc).

"if, say, you disable a network connection which uses the NIC and then reboot, you may be missing its three votes"

this is (as I wrote before) clearly disabling in Windows. Disabling in Bios would be even more radical (well, one could say "you can't remove it more").

This; "It then calculates and records a number based on the first device of each type" (bold in the article) clearly means only one NIC is considered for that calculation, not two (LAN and WiFi).

To reassure you (and almost quote the article "that answers all your questions") in case of a netbook, you are very unlikely to change

  • the display adapter
  • the motherboard
  • the processor type
  • the processor serial number

and with the NIC enabled, there you have them, 7 votes. Just wait 120 days to disable the NIC if you really need to.

...Ponch (ASUS? where did you get that from?)

Very simply, :D I did not assume anything, I asked for the brand, he answered, I read the answer and I believed him. Next time, use ctrl+F. ;)

I called microsoft and they essentially told me that if I didn't have a key I was out of luck.

So now also to Submix8c, according to you, what key were they talking about ? Or was the MS guy talking rubbish ?

If you install an OEM PC that is preactivated and then (this is basically what the OP was worried about) you change too much hardware for the OS to feel home, is MS expecting you to search the Winnt.sif on your CD for the royalty key ??? Or does that system stay activated whatever happens because the manufacturer's Bios and the OEM file are still there ? I've never been there personally (well, I've changed a lot but not not enough, and if I had, the 120 days rule would have spared me).

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1 - Nope, not a stretch - it "devolved" into it.

3 - Never said that - there are, however, implications based upon this topic. You never said that the (unknown) Netbook was OEM-anything (going back through your old posts).

It was suggested that you retain your original HDD just in case. If your COA key is "gone" then it's STILL highly recommended to use a KeyFinder FIRST.

1- If you want to think I'm freaking out, okay :)

3- post 1:

I need to be sure I won't be prompted to reactivate my OEM copy of WinXP

post 6:

I researched this option, and it seems such programs do not work on OEM installs.

I'm not sure why you are still recommending using a keyfinder.

"if, say, you disable a network connection which uses the NIC and then reboot, you may be missing its three votes"

this is (as I wrote before) clearly disabling in Windows. Disabling in Bios would be even more radical (well, one could say "you can't remove it more").

This; "It then calculates and records a number based on the first device of each type" (bold in the article) clearly means only one NIC is considered for that calculation, not two (LAN and WiFi).

To reassure you (and almost quote the article "that answers all your questions") in case of a netbook, you are very unlikely to change

  • the display adapter
  • the motherboard
  • the processor type
  • the processor serial number

and with the NIC enabled, there you have them, 7 votes. Just wait 120 days to disable the NIC if you really need to.

I still think the author's statements are somewhat non-definitive, "you may be missing its votes", and I still don't feel I know for sure what level of disabling will cause lost votes, but I suppose I can experiment, and if disabling lan, wifi, or both causes lost votes I can simply enable them again and that should cause xp to cease prompting me to revalidate.

I looked through the article again, and it did not explicitly mention whether there is a 120 day clean-slate period after initial activation and any subsequent reactivation.

Were you stating that if changing my hard drive necessitated a reactivation, that after 120 from that reactivation I could disable NIC with no issues?

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I need to be sure I won't be prompted to reactivate my OEM copy of WinXP

Reminds me of Marathon Man... link... :unsure:

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I'm not sure why you are still recommending using a keyfinder.

They work for sure on OEM key what you read is just wrong at least for XP/2003 OS. Why don't you try Aida32 or Everest (if you want a big name to be sure ?)

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Were you stating that if changing my hard drive necessitated a reactivation, that after 120 from that reactivation I could disable NIC with no issues?

I'm not stating anything. I'm just going on quoting that article that seems serious and gives info about something it apparently none of us has experienced yet but you're insisting MIGHT be a problem for you. I can go on and on, you don't seem to understand anything the article says. I'm not going to spend an hour changing my hardware for you to see if the article was right, I just assume it is and it's you that needs to try. Now we keep telling you that there won't be no problem but you don't seem to believe any of us. So what's the point asking ? Why don't you just try, I don't see any risk? You still have that perfectly working backup anyway.

I'm not scared, I'm being cautious because I don't want to wind up wasting a bunch of time, energy and money

I think it's exactly what you are doing since 2 days. And you'll end up being told to buy any Asus CD/license for XP Home/Pro that you'll find on eBay for $10, that will tick the money waste. Then you'll put that SSD in your netbook, have a cold sweat because XP tells you it found a new hard drive, new volumes etc... needs to reboot,... and ... and... and...that was it. :blushing:

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I'm not sure why you are still recommending using a keyfinder.

They work for sure on OEM key what you read is just wrong at least for XP/2003 OS. Why don't you try Aida32 or Everest (if you want a big name to be sure ?)

Okay, but what use would that code be to me at this point if it's not used for re-validation? And I don't have non-OEM software to do a new install?

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(sigh...)

REPEAT - that IS the OEM Royalty key...

It is used to - INSTALL!

It MUST be (re-)valid if the OEM's used it. I thought I made it CLEAR how validation works. I'll repeat it for your edification -

1 - XP is Installed with KEY of one of the following:

1a - Royalty/OEM (Internal)

1b - OEM COA Sticker, unique to THAT OEM PC (external)

1c - Generic OEM Key (similar to COA sticker) supplied with an OEM System Builder Kit

1d - Full Product Retail Key

1e - Upgrade Product Retail Key

1f - Full Product Select Key (aka "Volume")

2 - For 1b thru 1e, Activation Required, and you DO it

2b - (Post#13... two separate Numeric Codes, one you supply and one you get back)

See? Three independent but interconnected values for Validation.

1a uses SPECIAL files to correspond to that Key to lock the OS to that Brand PC, as does 1f except it works on ANY PC. These do NOT require Activation (self-Activate). All others are UNIQUE and ALWAYS require Activation. NOW, re-read said articles...

And I don't have non-OEM software to do a new install?
SO confused... (see above 1a,b,c - keyword OEM!) Did YOU install this Netbook or is it (OMG) Pre-Installed? If Pre-Installed it has a ROYALTY key used for Installation AND (as stated) it's USUALLY CLEARLY VISIBLE in "I386\WINNT.SIF" - bone up on that filename and the contents, will you?

xmf= :ph34r: / :unsure: / :wacko: / :crazy: / :sneaky: <-choose or select from drop-down...

[sarcasm]YES, we are LYING to you! Don't do anything we say - we WANT your Computer to never work again.[/sarcasm]

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submix8c,

I don't think anyone here is lying or intentionally trying to mislead me. I appreciate the help given (but not the derision), but unless you are well versed in these things it can be confusing, and I've especially found your manner of posting to be difficult to understand clearly. I'm aware that sometimes those who are very advanced in a subject sometimes forget how to come down to the level of those who are beginners, so that may very well be the case here.

I think maybe where I first became confused was from your post #13, #2. What string of numbers are you referring to?

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I'm not stating anything. I'm just going on quoting that article

Here's what you stated, "and with the NIC enabled, there you have them, 7 votes. Just wait 120 days to disable the NIC if you really need to"

As my OEM copy of XP was pre-installed, and I've been using it for a few years now, it seems (based on the article) that the 120 day period has long passed. Therefore, I was simply asking you to explain your advice to "wait 120 days to disable the NIC".

I'm not scared, I'm being cautious because I don't want to wind up wasting a bunch of time, energy and money

I think it's exactly what you are doing since 2 days. And you'll end up being told to buy any Asus CD/license for XP Home/Pro that you'll find on eBay for $10, that will tick the money waste. Then you'll put that SSD in your netbook, have a cold sweat because XP tells you it found a new hard drive, new volumes etc... needs to reboot,... and ... and... and...that was it. :blushing:

Okay, you like taking shots at me. Despite what you and others may assume about me, I'm just here because I have 3 copies of windows and I'm genuinely interested in learning more about this subject.

Edited by xmf
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(good gravy...)

Here is a WONDERFUL pictorial on Phone Activation -

http://www.examiner.com/slideshow/windows-xp-telephone-activation

Ever hear of Google?

xp "telephone activation" example

Your Install is OEM (as you JUST stated).

ROYALTY key! THAT is why you want to use a Keyfinder! (ref the I386\\WINNT.SIF file)

1 - Royalty Key, Internal used by Manufacturer/OEM

2 - OEM COA Key (Unique)

3 - Generic OEM System Builder + One or More Keys (each Unique)

4 - Retail Full Product Key (Unique)

5 - Retail Upgrade Product Key (Unique)

6 - Select Key aka "Volume License"

#1 is UNIQUE between Manufacturers/OEM's and is used to ROLL OUT Images for the SAME HARDWARE (mass-produced) and uses a SPECIAL set of files UNIQUE for each MANUFACTURER. These do NOT require Activation on Initial Install but will be TIED to that PC (the WPA file). PLEASE REFER TO #2 BELOW!

#2 is UNIQUE for EACH PC that the Manufacturer/OEM "rolls out". These are USUALLY put somewhere in a Hardware Audit System with the corresponding Serial Number/Service Tag. These keys are PURCHASED at a DISCOUNT since they are Mass-Producing Computers.

#3 is/are UNIQUE and have NOTHING TO DO with #1 - These are "Mom-and-Pop" type shops that build-their-own. USUALLY the Key is supplied with a COA (it BETTER be) similar to #1 BUT they DO require Activation.

#4/#5 is what YOU can/could buy Off-The-Shelf. They DO require Activation.

#6 is UNIQUE BETWEEN CORPORATIONS and SIMILAR to #1, ALSO having a DIFFERENT SPECIAL set of files. This type is USUALLY used to UPGRADE their Corporate PC's but ALSO have to have a LICENSE (read as Unique Key) to be LOGGED in their Hardware Audit System for EACH PC (similar to #2 above).

Clear?

edit - ALL of this info is ALREADY scattered throughout MSFN and The WWW - you just don't want to investigate BUT you sure did "stumble" across the "votes" thing, didn't you? ;)

Edited by submix8c
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(good gravy...)

Here is a WONDERFUL pictorial on Phone Activation -

http://www.examiner.com/slideshow/windows-xp-telephone-activation

Ever hear of Google?

xp "telephone activation" example

Okay, the pictorial confirmed what I originally assumed you meant in post 13, #2. So if I am to assume that for a reactivation the process is identical, then again I ask you, of what use would a keyfinder program be to me?

from http://pcsupport.about.com/od/productkeysactivation/qt/key-finder-faq.htm

"If your computer was manufactured by a large company like Dell, Sony, Gateway, etc. then the product key that the key finder found was very, very likely a generic product key that Microsoft allows the manufacturer to use so it's easy for them to mass produce PCs.

This generic product key will NOT work if you use it to reinstall Windows. I should also note here that a commercial key finder program will not find a different key so don't pay money for one thinking you'll get a different product key."

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edit - ALL of this info is ALREADY scattered throughout MSFN and The WWW - you just don't want to investigate BUT you sure did "stumble" across the "votes" thing, didn't you? ;)

Well check out the title of the thread and the first post. I wasn't really looking for the info you're stating that I don't want to investigate.

Edited by xmf
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