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NIC and WPA Votes

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#26
xmf

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submix8c,

I don't think anyone here is lying or intentionally trying to mislead me. I appreciate the help given (but not the derision), but unless you are well versed in these things it can be confusing, and I've especially found your manner of posting to be difficult to understand clearly. I'm aware that sometimes those who are very advanced in a subject sometimes forget how to come down to the level of those who are beginners, so that may very well be the case here.

I think maybe where I first became confused was from your post #13, #2. What string of numbers are you referring to?


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#27
xmf

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I'm not stating anything. I'm just going on quoting that article



Here's what you stated, "and with the NIC enabled, there you have them, 7 votes. Just wait 120 days to disable the NIC if you really need to"

As my OEM copy of XP was pre-installed, and I've been using it for a few years now, it seems (based on the article) that the 120 day period has long passed. Therefore, I was simply asking you to explain your advice to "wait 120 days to disable the NIC".


I'm not scared, I'm being cautious because I don't want to wind up wasting a bunch of time, energy and money

I think it's exactly what you are doing since 2 days. And you'll end up being told to buy any Asus CD/license for XP Home/Pro that you'll find on eBay for $10, that will tick the money waste. Then you'll put that SSD in your netbook, have a cold sweat because XP tells you it found a new hard drive, new volumes etc... needs to reboot,... and ... and... and...that was it. :blushing:


Okay, you like taking shots at me. Despite what you and others may assume about me, I'm just here because I have 3 copies of windows and I'm genuinely interested in learning more about this subject.

Edited by xmf, 17 January 2013 - 04:18 PM.


#28
submix8c

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(good gravy...)

Here is a WONDERFUL pictorial on Phone Activation -
http://www.examiner....hone-activation

Ever hear of Google?
xp "telephone activation" example
Your Install is OEM (as you JUST stated).

ROYALTY key! THAT is why you want to use a Keyfinder! (ref the I386\\WINNT.SIF file)
1 - Royalty Key, Internal used by Manufacturer/OEM
2 - OEM COA Key (Unique)
3 - Generic OEM System Builder + One or More Keys (each Unique)
4 - Retail Full Product Key (Unique)
5 - Retail Upgrade Product Key (Unique)
6 - Select Key aka "Volume License"
#1 is UNIQUE between Manufacturers/OEM's and is used to ROLL OUT Images for the SAME HARDWARE (mass-produced) and uses a SPECIAL set of files UNIQUE for each MANUFACTURER. These do NOT require Activation on Initial Install but will be TIED to that PC (the WPA file). PLEASE REFER TO #2 BELOW!
#2 is UNIQUE for EACH PC that the Manufacturer/OEM "rolls out". These are USUALLY put somewhere in a Hardware Audit System with the corresponding Serial Number/Service Tag. These keys are PURCHASED at a DISCOUNT since they are Mass-Producing Computers.
#3 is/are UNIQUE and have NOTHING TO DO with #1 - These are "Mom-and-Pop" type shops that build-their-own. USUALLY the Key is supplied with a COA (it BETTER be) similar to #1 BUT they DO require Activation.
#4/#5 is what YOU can/could buy Off-The-Shelf. They DO require Activation.
#6 is UNIQUE BETWEEN CORPORATIONS and SIMILAR to #1, ALSO having a DIFFERENT SPECIAL set of files. This type is USUALLY used to UPGRADE their Corporate PC's but ALSO have to have a LICENSE (read as Unique Key) to be LOGGED in their Hardware Audit System for EACH PC (similar to #2 above).

Clear?

edit - ALL of this info is ALREADY scattered throughout MSFN and The WWW - you just don't want to investigate BUT you sure did "stumble" across the "votes" thing, didn't you? ;)

Edited by submix8c, 17 January 2013 - 04:51 PM.

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#29
xmf

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(good gravy...)

Here is a WONDERFUL pictorial on Phone Activation -
http://www.examiner....hone-activation

Ever hear of Google?

xp "telephone activation" example


Okay, the pictorial confirmed what I originally assumed you meant in post 13, #2. So if I am to assume that for a reactivation the process is identical, then again I ask you, of what use would a keyfinder program be to me?

from http://pcsupport.abo...-finder-faq.htm

"If your computer was manufactured by a large company like Dell, Sony, Gateway, etc. then the product key that the key finder found was very, very likely a generic product key that Microsoft allows the manufacturer to use so it's easy for them to mass produce PCs.

This generic product key will NOT work if you use it to reinstall Windows. I should also note here that a commercial key finder program will not find a different key so don't pay money for one thinking you'll get a different product key."

#30
xmf

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edit - ALL of this info is ALREADY scattered throughout MSFN and The WWW - you just don't want to investigate BUT you sure did "stumble" across the "votes" thing, didn't you? ;)


Well check out the title of the thread and the first post. I wasn't really looking for the info you're stating that I don't want to investigate.

Edited by xmf, 17 January 2013 - 05:05 PM.


#31
xmf

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I'm not sure why you are still recommending using a keyfinder.

They work for sure on OEM key what you read is just wrong at least for XP/2003 OS. Why don't you try Aida32 or Everest (if you want a big name to be sure ?)


Please see post 29

Edited by xmf, 17 January 2013 - 05:32 PM.


#32
submix8c

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<snip>then again I ask you, of what use would a keyfinder program be to me?

from http://pcsupport.abo...-finder-faq.htm

"If your computer was manufactured by a large company like Dell, Sony, Gateway, etc. then the product key that the key finder found was very, very likely a generic product key that Microsoft allows the manufacturer to use so it's easy for them to mass produce PCs.

This generic product key will NOT work if you use it to reinstall Windows. I should also note here that a commercial key finder program will not find a different key so don't pay money for one thinking you'll get a different product key."

You didn't read my last post at all, did you? Magic Jelly Bean is FREE! Indeed, there is ALSO several KeyFinder routines on MSFN.

Scenario: I lose my Reinstall CD/DVD (notice it says REINSTALL and NOT RECOVERY) or it gets destroyed. I need another one. I look at the Forum and find there are Key Files on my Hard Drive that can be retrieved, along with a corresponding Like Edition of XP, and the Internal Key. BAM! I now can construct a Reinstall CD/DVD. I've had to do this before during PC Repairs and WOW! Yes, Dorothy the Key DOES work! FACT!!!!

Here's one such Topic -
http://www.msfn.org/...pre-activation/
Another -
http://unattended.ms...xp/view/web/29/
Another -
http://www.msfn.org/...vation-utility/
Another -
http://www.msfn.org/...g-installation/

Proven wrong again by a total misconception of ANOTHER article found on the Net.
You are more prone to acknowledge information from "elsewhere" and yet...
YOU ARE HER BOTHERING US WITH MISINFORMATION FROM THERE!
edit - ...and I thought I FULLY explained that in my previous post WITH DETAILS!

Yep, we're lying to you. ;)

Edited by submix8c, 17 January 2013 - 05:37 PM.

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#33
xmf

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You didn't read my last post at all, did you? Magic Jelly Bean is FREE! Indeed, there is ALSO several KeyFinder routines on MSFN.

Scenario: I lose my Reinstall CD/DVD (notice it says REINSTALL and NOT RECOVERY) or it gets destroyed. I need another one. I look at the Forum and find there are Key Files on my Hard Drive that can be retrieved, along with a corresponding Like Edition of XP, and the Internal Key. BAM! I now can construct a Reinstall CD/DVD. I've had to do this before during PC Repairs and WOW! Yes, Dorothy the Key DOES work! FACT!!!!

Here's one such Topic -
http://www.msfn.org/...pre-activation/
Another -
http://unattended.ms...xp/view/web/29/
Another -
http://www.msfn.org/...vation-utility/
Another -
http://www.msfn.org/...g-installation/

Proven wrong again by a total misconception of ANOTHER article found on the Net.
You are more prone to acknowledge information from "elsewhere" and yet...
YOU ARE HER BOTHERING US WITH MISINFORMATION FROM THERE!
edit - ...and I thought I FULLY explained that in my previous post WITH DETAILS!

Yep, we're lying to you. ;)


No, again, I don't think anyone on this thread is lying or intentionally being misleading. The threads you've linked are all very advanced for me, but in general it seems you are supplying information that is useful for some, but not really applicable in this particular situation and for what I'm trying to accomplish.

I'm not interested in reinstalling. IF some of the changes I make necessitate reactivation, I should be able to do so by phone. And, if I understand correctly, that process should be almost identical to the one outlined in the pictorial you linked. Correct?

#34
submix8c

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1 - Not "advanced" at all. Very simple.
2 - You may want that Key. Potentially, an "over-the-top" reinstall could be necessary. Again, at least CHECK to see if you have a file in the I386 folder of your CD's/DVD's named "WINNT.SIF". No, I won't go into the necessity and method of "over-top-reinstall" but YES that can be done as well. Ever hear of OS corruption and how to fix? IOW, you may want to read those links to understand how OEM works. This IS the Topic of this thread in relation to WPA and those links ARE relevant.
3 - As a general rule, the "Reinstall CD/DVD" (again NOT Recovery, which reloads an IMAGE that has extra "junkware") is NEARLY identical to a Retail/Generic-OEM. I have a Dell OEM MCE2005 DVD sitting right here AND the HDD has the "Recovery" image on it in a hidden partition. Better make sure your "clone" is an EXACT REPLICA!
4 - Not "almost identical"procedure - EXACTLY IDENTICAL.
5 - Worst case scenario - you DO need the COA Key (ref Ponch' comments) and you NEED to do an over-the top (re-initiates OEM install without loss of any changes you made) thus "bypassing" the problem which COULD be bypassed anyway by calling the "I want to talk to a person" Phone#.
6 - Point in fact - you've attempted to refute nearly every knowledgeable member here. I would say that implies you believe we're lying to you. Example -

Please see post 29

Reread the whole thread and tell me you didn't. ;)

Stubborn, aren't you? :yes:

OK... here it is - Go Your Own Way and enjoy whatever might wrong, come back and ask for help, and not get anyone to help because you like to challenge the helpers. :no:

Someday the tyrants will be unthroned... Jason "Jay" Chasteen; RIP, bro!

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#35
jaclaz

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Hey guys, come on :), take it easy....
I know that it is "very basic", but maybe the issue here is terminology.

Let me have a try at it with a different comparison.

@xmf
Let's say that you go to your hardware store and buy a new set of locks for your house.
By paying an extra and ordering them "custom" you can have the kind normally used in hotels or more generally commercial premises where each lock has two (or more) "level" keys.
Very simplified you get 2 locks that BOTH open with your "master" key, and at the same time 2 set of keys, each one ONLY opening the corresponding lock.
As an example you can keep the "master" in your keyring and open with it BOTH your front and back door, but give your kids only the key for the back door.

OEM CD's (big OEM's with what submix8c calls ROYALTY key) work not entirely unlike such a kind of locks.

When the system is first installed by the OEM, it is installed using it's "master" key.
Then a sticker is applied to the actual piece of hardware with a speciifc "other" key (valid as well).

The difference being that the "master" key (through methods that won't be discussed) will produce a pre-activated install, while the one on the sticker will require you to activate the XP, either online or in some cases through telephone.

Is the above more clear now?

jaclaz

#36
xmf

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Jaclaz, first of all, I appreciate your willingness to help, and I imagine that this quality (as well as your maturity) has made you a valuable member of whatever communities you are a part of.

Regarding the issue, I understand your clear and simple explanation. However, as may already be apparent from my previous posts, my conception of the master key is different in that I understood it to be more of a one time use deal. Using your analogy, like a lock installer who brought with them a master key to get into the house initially, but then leaves and does not make it available to use for any entries in the future.

In this article (and in numerous other articles I've found on the subject): http://pcsupport.abo...-finder-faq.htm

It is stated that the generic (or master) key will not work for subsequent installs, but you and others are stating that it will. This is where our understandings differ.

As I understand it now, because my install is bios-locked, I can use a program to clone a healthy copy of my install (to use in case my install is corrupted) and I should never need or have anything to do with either key unless maybe I'm attempting to install this version of windows on a differently branded MB, which I have no plan of doing.

#37
jaclaz

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As I understand it now, because my install is bios-locked, I can use a program to clone a healthy copy of my install (to use in case my install is corrupted) and I should never need or have anything to do with either key unless maybe I'm attempting to install this version of windows on a differently branded MB, which I have no plan of doing.

Yes and No. :w00t:
Meaning that a clone or "dd-like" or "forensic sound" image of an existing, activated install, once properly re-deployed to the "original" PC/system will need NO activation, nor a key, NO MATTER which kind of system is installed (bios-locked, OEM, Retail, Volume, upgrade, whatever).

A clone ( or "dd-like" or "forensic sound" image) is "a clone" ;).
http://www.msfn.org/...post__p__974869
not " a copy" and not "a backup", it is something that is so similar (actually identical) to the original that you will have NO WAY (nor Windows, nor anyone or anything else) to tell which is which.

jaclaz

#38
xmf

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As I understand it now, because my install is bios-locked, I can use a program to clone a healthy copy of my install (to use in case my install is corrupted) and I should never need or have anything to do with either key unless maybe I'm attempting to install this version of windows on a differently branded MB, which I have no plan of doing.

Yes and No. :w00t:
Meaning that a clone or "dd-like" or "forensic sound" image of an existing, activated install, once properly re-deployed to the "original" PC/system will need NO activation, nor a key, NO MATTER which kind of system is installed (bios-locked, OEM, Retail, Volume, upgrade, whatever).

A clone ( or "dd-like" or "forensic sound" image) is "a clone" ;).
http://www.msfn.org/...post__p__974869
not " a copy" and not "a backup", it is something that is so similar (actually identical) to the original that you will have NO WAY (nor Windows, nor anyone or anything else) to tell which is which.

jaclaz


I appreciate the explanation. So, semantics aside, I still don't understand of what use either key code you mentioned would be to me, and why members have continued to recommend using a keyfinder. Whether I'm using a clone or an oem restore copy of xp, I will never need a code to activate (unless, as I stated, I try to install on a different motherboard, which I will not be doing). Thanks

#39
submix8c

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Simply put, I have seen OEM CD's that did NOT have a WINNT.SIF file nor the corresponding "special files". If you have one, the you SHOULD check to see if the Product Key is inside it. It's just a Text file that you can open with Notepad. If you do NOT have WINNT.SIF -and/or- the Key is not present then you're up a creek (so to speak) if you need to reinstall (for whatever reason). In fact, you MIGHT want to (if present on both counts) compare it to the results of a KeyFinder.

And it was NOT about

(unless, as I stated, I try to install on a different motherboard, which I will not be doing)

and nobody even suggested that.

Your initial post was about "cloning" and "votes" due to "potentially" needing reactivation (with a :angry: to emphasize your :ph34r: of the necessity). It follows that you may want to ENSURE that you have a workaround.

Humor me - check your CD's/DVD's to confirm you have what you need and I won't "bother" you with "superfluous information" anymore. :yes:

Someday the tyrants will be unthroned... Jason "Jay" Chasteen; RIP, bro!

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#40
xmf

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Okay. I don't have a recovery disk to check, but I do have recovery media on usb that I've successfully used to recover the system back to original spec (without being prompted for a key). However, I much prefer to use a clone which preserves all the work I've put into tweaking the os (in my original post I mentioned that I did not want to reinstall xp, but preserve my current os).

So, considering that a key would not be needed for any reactivation, and that my goal, being to preserve my current os, is better accomplished through cloning (which also doesn't require a key), I think I'm all set.

#41
submix8c

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"Recovery Media on USB"? NOW you say you HAVE no CD/DVD for it (you insisted you did before).

This is NOT an "installable media". So... you DO potentially need to construct one AND need the key.

Question - what happens when that USB fails? Hmmmm???? Start looking for some paddles...

Edited by submix8c, 18 January 2013 - 04:48 PM.

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#42
xmf

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"Recovery Media on USB"? NOW you say you HAVE no CD/DVD for it (you insisted you did before).

This is NOT an "installable media". So... you DO potentially need to construct one AND need the key.

Question - what happens when that USB fails? Hmmmm???? Start looking for some paddles...


As I stated in my last post, the best option for me is to use a clone. I keep such important files in multiple locations, so I'm all set.

From post #9, which was my third post on this thread:
It came pre-installed on my (then new) ASUS netbook, and with no install media.

If you are referring to this statement, from post 1, I did not mean that to imply that I had a CD/DVD:
I need to be sure I won't be prompted to reactivate my OEM copy of WinXP

In post 38 I'm stating hypothetically as I can purchase restore media from ASUS if needed:
Whether I'm using a clone or an oem restore copy of xp

#43
bphlpt

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I guess another way to look at your situation is this:

You started out asking about information so that you would be prepared, just in case. In a similar vein, tt would seem that it would be a good idea to collect all the various keys that you have internal to your system or external to it, if you can come up with any way to read the worn sticker, for the same reason, just in case. Even if you never need it, since you are going to clone the drive, or even if you are correct and that key wouldn't work for you anyway, why are you resisting so strenuously the five minutes and zero cost of getting and using a key finder to collect information about your system? If you find out later, during the middle of an unplanned for reinstall for whatever reason, that you need that info it will be much harder to get it then, if it is possible at all. Using the key finder will do no damage or make any changes at all to your system. And who knows? Sometime in the future the info might come in handy. You also might learn something, and besides, it will shut us up. Good luck in your efforts.

Cheers and Regards

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#44
xmf

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why are you resisting so strenuously the five minutes and zero cost of getting and using a key finder to collect information about your system?


Because I won't ever need it, and the key wouldn't work for me anyway :D I've got three solid levels of redundancy that don't need a code (clone, onboard oem restore, & usb oem restore), so I'm good to go in that regard. Thanks

Edited by xmf, 18 January 2013 - 06:35 PM.


#45
Kelsenellenelvian

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Sooooo.. What your saying, in essence here, is that your just wasting everyone's time here since you have 3 levels of redundancy and apparently don't care about serials and activation?

If your not worried about the serial then you are wasting yours and everyone's time in this thread....

#46
xmf

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Sooooo.. What your saying, in essence here, is that your just wasting everyone's time here since you have 3 levels of redundancy and apparently don't care about serials and activation?

If your not worried about the serial then you are wasting yours and everyone's time in this thread....


No, check my first post and the title of this thread. It's not as if I opened a thread looking for advice on how to find a key and then refused that advice. In fact, my original question, having to do with what would cause NIC votes to be lost has been lost in the shuffle of people suggesting that I use a keycode finder and my explaining why that is not necessary.

#47
jaclaz

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I appreciate the explanation. So, semantics aside, I still don't understand of what use either key code you mentioned would be to me, and why members have continued to recommend using a keyfinder. Whether I'm using a clone or an oem restore copy of xp, I will never need a code to activate (unless, as I stated, I try to install on a different motherboard, which I will not be doing). Thanks

Let's try with another analogy from another field. :whistle:

Why a large number of policemen/federal agents (which are issued a Beretta or a Glock 9 mm or a .357 or a .45 by their Administration) would live their lives carrying also a small .38" 2" revolver (or any other kind of smallish gun) on their right or left ankle? :unsure:

Let me think....

You normally have several ways:
  • clone the system
  • IF that goes bad re-install from the original install CD (if available) using EITHER the COA sticker (which surely you DON'T have) or with the key found by the keyfinder (and if with the latter most likely need NOT to reactivate online or by phone)
  • IF that goes bad or the CD/iso is not available then re-deploy through the recovery CD (which is a "particular" kind of "clone") and need NOT to reactivate
  • IF that goes bad re-install from *any* install CD (if available) using EITHER the COA sticker (which surely you DON'T have) or with the key found by the keyfinder (and most likely need to reactivate online or by phone)

You are limiting yourself to one or two of them while you have (still) the possibility of having (IF needed) at least an additional "way out".

jaclaz

#48
Kelsenellenelvian

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Eventually you are going to have to phone MS and re-activate no matter what you do...

#49
xmf

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I'm not so sure. There is no "original install cd" as this is a mass oem install, and from what I've read, the recovery cd does not prompt for a key, and the key a keyfinder would pull does not work with any non-oem version of windows (without perhaps making mods that I believe one poster on this thread commented on the frowned-upon nature of).

Despite these arguments, I'm obviously no expert and you may very well be right. However, I still believe the three degrees of redundancy I mentioned in post 44 are plenty, honestly. A proven-to-work clone, by itself, (as long as it's kept in a few locations) is enough as far as I'm concerned. In addition to that, I have 2 methods of doing an oem restore that don't require a key (1 onboard and one off). If you and others think it's idiotic that I'm not interested in pursuing more, so be it. Arguing that point will get nowhere, it's just a difference of opinion, and arguing that is not why I started this thread (NIC :hello: ).


I appreciate the explanation. So, semantics aside, I still don't understand of what use either key code you mentioned would be to me, and why members have continued to recommend using a keyfinder. Whether I'm using a clone or an oem restore copy of xp, I will never need a code to activate (unless, as I stated, I try to install on a different motherboard, which I will not be doing). Thanks

Let's try with another analogy from another field. :whistle:

Why a large number of policemen/federal agents (which are issued a Beretta or a Glock 9 mm or a .357 or a .45 by their Administration) would live their lives carrying also a small .38" 2" revolver (or any other kind of smallish gun) on their right or left ankle? :unsure:

Let me think....

You normally have several ways:
  • clone the system
  • IF that goes bad re-install from the original install CD (if available) using EITHER the COA sticker (which surely you DON'T have) or with the key found by the keyfinder (and if with the latter most likely need NOT to reactivate online or by phone)
  • IF that goes bad or the CD/iso is not available then re-deploy through the recovery CD (which is a "particular" kind of "clone") and need NOT to reactivate
  • IF that goes bad re-install from *any* install CD (if available) using EITHER the COA sticker (which surely you DON'T have) or with the key found by the keyfinder (and most likely need to reactivate online or by phone)

You are limiting yourself to one or two of them while you have (still) the possibility of having (IF needed) at least an additional "way out".

jaclaz



#50
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(1) You have spent WAY longer explaining why you don't want to use a key finder than it would have taken to have gotten and run it.

(2) You could just lie to us and say you did it. (We won't ask what the key is so your secret will be safe.) If your clone goes wrong for any reason and your current system disc gets damaged, then we'll try and give you advice how to reinstall using the previously "found" key. :)

(3) Yes, you're right that we've been more focused on the activation angle (needing some kind of key), but "activation" and/or "key" featured prominently in the first two sentences of your original post.

I'm getting ready to clone my netbook's hdd over to a new Intel SSD (using Intel's included software), and I need to be sure I won't be prompted to reactivate my OEM copy of WinXP. The reason I can't re-verify is because the product key has worn off of Microsoft's sticker :angry:


(4) So to answer what apparently are the only questions you really wanted an answer to (which have already been answered elsewhere in the thread):

[...] if I disable LAN and Wifi in the BIOS, would that affect the vote count?


Yes, AFAIK, and I believe the same is true if you just disable them in Windows.

[...] will simply swapping the hard drive bring my vote count down low enough for XP to prompt for re-activation?


If you swap the disk by doing a true clone, then Windows will not be able to tell that any change has occurred, so No.

Cheers and Regards

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