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How can we keep XP alive?

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43 replies to this topic

#26
dencorso

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Not quite. You can navigate very passably still, even without KernelEx, using Opera 10.10...
But I wasn't trying to make the case for 9x/ME... I only mentioned those OSes to say they went out of support in July 11, 2006... and remain usable today.
There'll be navigators supporting XP SP3 for a long time ahead: its usage share is still about half the windows users...
The best years of XP are still to come. Relax, stop worrying, and enjoy them instead. :hello:


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#27
monroe

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Jody from Canada ... we sort of exchanged some information in another forum dealing with the K-Meleon Twin browser. You did mention using SeaMonkey and I tried the portable SM version and it worked just fine but I still like the KM browsers with XP as I did with Windows 98SE. You mention concerns about banking in today's world. I am having no problem (so far) in doing my banking with K-Meleon ... also can still get into my brokerage account with KM. I am using JamesD's KM 1.6 beta 2.5 version and I added some UserAgents from KM Twin and some that I found on the internet ... I had no trouble using the KM default but I have the UA set to Firefox 15. Maybe the banking sites are more picky or stringent in Canada and just don't work well with "older browsers" but when I do have a real problem with a site then I fire up IE 8 and can usually get things to work OK with that. I have 3 KM browser versions on my XP notebooks: KM v1.5.4 ... KM v1.6 beta 2.5 by JamesD ... KM Twin. Maybe some additional modern UserAgents might be of help. I've been experimenting with various UAs and the whole thing is fascinating.

Just to add ... I usually have JavaScript off but for banking and other sensitive accounts ... it usually has to be turned on. Just my 2 cents on the matter.

Edited by duffy98, 14 April 2013 - 01:44 PM.


#28
JodyT

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Not quite. You can navigate very passably still, even without KernelEx, using Opera 10.10...


I can respect that, but how long will Opera v10.10 be able to render these pages properly? Plus, I want to render pages properly, not just passably. I suppose XP will be able to support Seamonkey builds for awhile. I can only hope. But at least I have a migration path with either Vista or Windows 7, if that's not the case.

As for the person I previously corresponded with regarding Seamonkey vs K-Meleon, I ran K-Meleon v1.6 and 1.7 alphas with one of the several add-ons and user-agent strings. And without proper HTML 5 support, Google Images doesn't work quite right. So even K-Meleon isn't a modern option really. It's too bad too, because I really liked K-Meleon.

#29
submix8c

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The following was kind of OT, but the point remains that older hardware functions (more or less) fine with an older OS (with our support, of course) as already stated. Your point of Rendering, however, is well-taken.

Pentium III 400 MHz CPU. I upped it from 256 MB to 512 MB of RAM, and installed a clean copy of Windows ME...

The CPU is a tad "slow" but the RAM would be sufficient for utilizing XP. P-III @400 implies Katmai, max of 600mhz (SECC Slot-I) so since hard to find not worth upgrading further. I'm not really sure how well it would perform with "modern browsers" (e.g. IE8), bearing in mind the Original Minimum Hardware Requirements (roughly matches the IE8 requirements).

XP will no doubt be "kept alive" well beyond it's expiration date. Google
windows xp market share 2013
indicates roughly 39% still use it now, trailing Windows7 and leading Vista and Windows8.

We'll be fine. Bear in mind that Windows9x was a die-hard. AFAICR MS literally had to shut off the MS Update to "make them go away" (not!). Even IE6 was still update-able during and beyond that.

Someday the tyrants will be unthroned... Jason "Jay" Chasteen; RIP, bro!

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#30
tomasz86

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M$ still releases updates for IE5 (Windows 2000) three years after EOL...
post-47483-1123010975.png
Unofficial Service Pack 5.2 for MS Windows 2000 <- use this topic if you need help with UURollup, Update Rollup 2 and other unofficial packages

#31
JodyT

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M$ still releases updates for IE5 (Windows 2000) three years after EOL...


Where in heck are you getting updates for Windows 2000, let alone Internet Explorer 5x? The updates should have ended in July 2010.

#32
tomasz86

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M$ still releases updates for IE5 (Windows 2000) three years after EOL...


Where in heck are you getting updates for Windows 2000, let alone Internet Explorer 5x? The updates should have ended in July 2010.


They are included in the Security Releases ISO images :)

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/913086
post-47483-1123010975.png
Unofficial Service Pack 5.2 for MS Windows 2000 <- use this topic if you need help with UURollup, Update Rollup 2 and other unofficial packages

#33
monroe

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Jody from Canada ... OK, I'm going to throw something else out that you might care to try. I will admit that I don't do Facebook but for me, K-Meleon has never been better ... now this is with XP Pro Sp3 ... Amazon, Google and pretty much wherever I go these days, all my web pages are OK to perfect using K-Meleon. I have no reason or idea why that is ... I did have lousy looking pages back maybe 6 months ago ... especially at Amazon sometimes. I am using Proxomitron by Scott R. Lemmon also and there are Google filters in there to filter out junk on the left and right sides of the web page and filters for other pages also.

I will go into a little detail since it does work well with XP and maybe Vista but beyond Vista I have no idea. Slightly off topic but it may help with some internet surfing and web pages with XP and below, definitely Windows 98SE. I use the Sidki filter configuration ...

Scott R. Lemmon has since passed away (age 36) but his work is being kept alive by many people, like what the people are doing here (MSFN) for older OSs.

Proxomitron.Info

http://www.proxomitron.info/


The Un-Official Proxomitron Forum

http://prxbx.com/forums/

... you will see a forum or thread named Sidki a little down the page ... he has since moved on but his filter set "sidki-config: Oct 23 2010" still seems to be OK ... there are some newer Google changes that you will also see ... others are keeping it updated at times also.

... I see JJoe has a new set of Google filters there dated March 30, 2013 ... he's the Administrator or one of them at the site.

2013.03.30 filters for Google ...

I'm using the filters below. Has been working in latest IE9, Chrome, Firefox, Opera, K-Meleon with javascript enabled. Will break in a couple hours. ... JJoe

.... I don't want to keep beating a dead horse dealing with K-Meleon but for some reason, surfing the web is OK these days with K-Meleon ... I have no real clue, maybe I did some setting adjustments, maybe Proxomitron is helping ... I just don't really know. .... maybe I'm just lucky in the fact that no matter where I go K-Meleon seems to work just fine. I am using the version by JamesD but the other versions that I mentioned before also seem to be OK. I have no clue for now. Others that understand computers much better than me may have some insight on the matter.
...

Edited by duffy98, 15 April 2013 - 06:23 PM.


#34
JodyT

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They are included in the Security Releases ISO images :)

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/913086


And these included CURRENT updates for IE 5?
:)

#35
JodyT

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Jody from Canada ... OK, I'm going to throw something else out that you might care to try.


Plenty of reading...when I arrive home from work, I'll try it.
:)

#36
tomasz86

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They are included in the Security Releases ISO images :)

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/913086


And these included CURRENT updates for IE 5?
:)

Yes :yes:
post-47483-1123010975.png
Unofficial Service Pack 5.2 for MS Windows 2000 <- use this topic if you need help with UURollup, Update Rollup 2 and other unofficial packages

#37
JodyT

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They are included in the Security Releases ISO images :)

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/913086


And these included CURRENT updates for IE 5?
:)

Yes :yes:


This I have to check out. So what are the oldest browser/OS combinations supported? (I'm at work so I can't check)

#38
dencorso

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You can only strive to keep alive something that's about to die. Windows XP is way far from it, BTW.
Bear in mind that the curves depicted in the graph below are segments of Gaussians, not straight lines.

Attached Files



#39
tomasz86

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This I have to check out. So what are the oldest browser/OS combinations supported? (I'm at work so I can't check)

It seems to be Windows 2000 / IE5. You can probably use the files for Windows 9x too.
post-47483-1123010975.png
Unofficial Service Pack 5.2 for MS Windows 2000 <- use this topic if you need help with UURollup, Update Rollup 2 and other unofficial packages

#40
monroe

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Just a brief update on K-Meleon and XP ... I have become aware of two more versions of K-Meleon that I know very little about ... next to nothing. I have just downloaded them to test with my XP setup later today. Rodocop at the KM forum added some information to a question that I asked JamesD about his version. JamesD has stated that he uses his version with Windows 7 ... K-Meleon 1.6.0 beta 2.4 Win 7 (32 bit) but Rodocop lists a slightly newer Beta version which I just downloaded two days ago and used it all day yesterday (heavy) and it was flawless (again with XP) ... using it now. I asked JamesD about the two different versions ... I got this answer.

Posted by: JamesD
Date: April 16, 2013 05:39AM

The only difference between beta 2.4 and beta 2.5 is the method for calling spellcheck. In 2.4 it is internal and in 2.5 there is a macro.
Desga wanted the 2.5 method. I don't remember why.

K-Meleon 1.6.0 beta 2.4 Win 7 (32 bit)

then rodocop posted some additional information later.

Posted by: rodocop
Date: April 16, 2013 01:30PM

My defaults are KM Twin and Fred's build KM16-S2014. No other browser is comparable in usage convenience with KM up to me.

_____________________________________
Using K-Meleon-1.6.17db+ / KM-16-S2014
1.6beta2.5 by JamesD

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have downloaded both K-Meleon-1.6.17db+ and KM-16-S2014 and will give them a try. Perhaps some others may want to experiment with their setup ... back everything up first ... I know absolutely nothing about these two versions. They may not work for me but might be great for someone else.

As I mentioned earlier, I don't do the Facebook thing and I know some people were saying at the KM forum that K-Meleon didn't seem to work very well with Facebook and maybe some other sites ... I didn't follow those posts very much since Facebook wasn't my interest. I seem to remember someone posting about changing some settings but whether it worked or not, not sure. There might be help there for specific K-Meleon problems. As for my personal experience ... the only site that I now have a problem with that will not work with K-Meleon is the PA State Lottery Site ... the only way I can get that site to fully work is to use IE8. They have made a lot of people mad in the state with this radical change since many people still have older computers, OSs and browsers. I sent an e-mail to them about the inconvenience of not be able to get information from the site anymore ... they sent an e-mail back telling advising me to get IE9, so much for "customer service" trying to be helpful ! ... they could care less about all of us with older computer setups ... I have since found several lottery sites (much better and not in PA) for checking my PA lottery tickets and K-Meleon works just fine with all of them. Just my story on one site that will not work with K-Meleon. However, these two new versions have yet to be tested at that site ... but I never go there anymore anyway so it really doesn't matter but I still will use the site as a "browser test".

K-Meleon 1.6.0 beta 2.4 by JamesD

https://dl.dropbox.c...a2dot4_en-US.7z

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

K-Meleon 1.6.0 beta 2.5 by JamesD

https://dl.dropbox.c...a2dot5_en-US.7z

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

K-Meleon-1.6.17db+

http://home.dbdbdugb...-Meleon-db.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

KM-16-S2014 (Fred)

http://kmext.sourcef...KM-16-S2014.zip

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

K-Meleon Twin+ (rodocop)

http://kmeleon.sourc...ad.php?1,123763

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

KM links if anyone wants to also experiment.
...

Edited by duffy98, 16 April 2013 - 06:31 AM.


#41
Andromeda43

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An old Eastern European, (I think it was a Serbian) once said "ve don need no stinkin' support!"

And I agree with that. If XP actually dies, it will be because of Updates from MS that KILL it.
Apparently that's exactly what they want to do. Witness, the number of posts from people complaining that their XP machine would not Boot Up and Run after an MS Update. The answer to that is simple....."Turn off those dang updates!!!"

It's NOT MS that's going to keep you safe anyway. He who thinks that is in for a Rude Awakening!

It's YOU who will keep your XP safe, and the good Anti-Malware packages that you select to use.
And how pro-active you are in keeping your computer clean and backed up.
Never rely on MS for computer security.

Cheers Mates!
B)
A person with experience is never at the mercy of a person with an argument.

#42
monroe

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Andromeda43 ... you bring up an interesting point that I have been thinking about over the last few weeks. Could future MS monthly updates start screwing up my XP setup? I installed the March MS updates and then did a Ghost backup of the whole setup. Everything was working just fine and I cleaned the registry with several cleaners that I use and defragged it ... all my settings were perfect, all the "junk" cleaned out and then a defrag of the whole drive ... anyway, I feel I have the best complete backup that I have ever made ... a 99.9% "Factory DVD" type backup. In the past I always thought I have finally made the "perfect backup" but a few hours later or a few days later I find something that was missed or not cleaned out. So I decided to stop with the March updates and make a good (perfect) copy to have something to fall back on if future MS monthly updates should screw up my XP setup. I installed the April updates and may go 5 or 6 months with more updates and burn another Ghost backup if all is working OK. I don't know if MS would "on purpose" try to destroy or "mess up" a computer with XP installed so as to force a person to think about buying a newer computer. Most people have limited knowledge about fixing or repairing a corrupt installation and might just consider buying a newer computer with Windows 7 or 8 or whatever new OS would be current. I just don't know ... open for discussion.

Awhile back I started a thread asking about installing MS updates right away or maybe waiting a few weeks to be sure they were OK.


Installing New Windows XP Updates

http://www.msfn.org/...ows-xp-updates/


The replies seem to be either way but CharlotteTheHarlot posted a very interesting reply that started me thinking about installing future updates ... just an excerpt from the complete post.

CharlotteTheHarlot ... Posted 18 December 2012

"Windows Update is disabled. I haven't even manually ran the update scan in over two years. It is of course behind a router. The Windows Firewall is running ( the XP inbound-only firewall ) but I'd bet I could even kill that without consequence. I am using Opera 99% of the time (version 11.something ), and Firefox for the odd pages and things that cause hiccups. MSIE is very rarely used. And here is the kicker ... It is an Administrator account. ~shudder~

There is no anti-virus ( except for on-demand scan of folders and drives now and then, not because I am infected, but for the odd client devices I am working with ). This computer visits the darkest, deepest and most dangerous corners of the web too. No bull. No drive-by scripts have ever compromised it. No local files have caused problems and believe me I test a whole lot of crap.

Try as I may, I cannot think of something that a critical Windows Update would need to fix as far as security that would affect anything positively. I would expect things might get broken by allowing Microsoft to just keep patching system files over and over again though. I always wondered how an ever-changing codebase can be considered "stable" but that's just me I guess. Anyway. I have always maintained that a properly configured Router + Opera is the first line of protection. It definitely works for me.

However, I have a never-ending stream of infected computers being brought in for repair and it is always one or both of those ( Router + Opera ) that are missing. They always have Windows Updates on automatic so they are up-to-date, and they have a variety of realtime antivirus programs ( murdering the performance naturally ). Yet still they show up in various states of disarray. Go figure."

------------------------------------------------------------------

.... so I have my good working March backup to fall back on if there should be any future problems ... might be good for everyone to think about a good (as near perfect) base backup to have to fall back on in case the MS monthly updates should start to cause some real problems going into 2014.

just to add ... I have Windows Automatic Update turned off and go there on my own and see what updates are listed and then using Google ... I download the updates to update three computers and then store on a CD. So I will have all the future monthly updates to come but may or may not use them.

also the current MS monthly updates are always at -X-'s site.

http://xdot.tk/updates.html
...

Edited by duffy98, 18 April 2013 - 10:26 AM.


#43
Andromeda43

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Wow! I've had kudos from both a Super Moderator and a Supporter, so I guess I'm not too far afield in my own thinking.

I don't have any real proof, that MS is purposely putting out updates with the idea of jamming up peoples PC's and forcing them to buy a new PC with a New OS on it. But it does appear that more XP PC's than ever before are falling prey to MS Updates. I've taken service calls on several XP machines in my own customer base, that were definitely rendered inoperable by an MS Update. In some cases I was able to fix the problem and in another case the damage was so great that I had to backup the person's data files and then reformat the HD and reinstall XP.

So what is MS really updating anyway? The OS? It's already 12+ years old, so what could be wrong with it at this late date?
MS has been trying to FIX Internet Explorer as long as it's been alive. It was a piece of crap the day it was first released and it still is.
Fixing Security holes.....it's like plugging all the holes in a screen door. Forgetaboutit !!!
Don't rely on MS for your computer security. Your security is in YOUR hands, and is dependent on what Security package you decide to use.
If you don't know how to protect your own PC, then call on an expert to help you.
I install a whole Package of Security Software for my own customers, and they, like myself, stay 100% malware free.
(as long as they keep their software up to date, and I even give them printed instructions on just how to do that)

For years I and thousands of other PC users, relied on Netscape for our browser, because we just couldn't stand I.E.
More recently, most of us have changed over to Mozilla Firefox.
I was there on day #1 when the full version of Firefox was released and over a million users downloaded it, within the first 24 hours.

So I rely on MS for Nothing. I have my own Package of Security Software, some FREE and some paid-for, and Firefox is my browser.
That's really all I need.
I do keep my PC clean of junk, on a daily basis, with a simple little batch file that runs from my Startup folder, every time I boot up my PC.
And, at least once every day or two, I run another batch file that backs up all my data files, to two external media. Then at least once a week I back up my entire C drive using my old reliable backup program, Ghost 11.5.

But, I also have Windows 7 installed on a separate hard drive and Windows 8 on another.
So if I ever get a piece of hardware that won't run on XP, I can always run it on one of the newer OS's.
NO Problemo!

Cheers Mates!
B)
A person with experience is never at the mercy of a person with an argument.

#44
monroe

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Andromeda43 ... thanks for the great post and going into more detail about XP monthly updates. So both you and CharlotteTheHarlot actually repair (fix) messed up XP computers. This is great to have this first hand information from both of you. As you said, in the case of Windows XP ... "So what is MS really updating anyway? The OS? It's already 12+ years old, so what could be wrong with it at this late date?" That makes sense ... you would think that all the serious stuff has been fixed through the years. I could see a Cumulative Time Zone update being needed every so often since those can change in some way around the world.

Well, I really do appreciate all the information that you posted ... and I'm sure some other readers found it informative also, just as I liked reading what CharlotteTheHarlot posted in the other thread in December.

I guess I will pass on further updates to my XP setup except maybe a "Cumulative Time Zone update", if one should come along and any thing else that might be along those lines. I will ask you (or anyone) about applying a Root Certificate Update ... they come out every so often ... any harm in that update, is it necessary?

As I said earlier, I have a great running system at this time that was backed up exactly two weeks ago with Ghost and so far I haven't found anything wrong or messed up with that backup ... first time ever I went that long and didn't find something. I am still able to get my entire drive on one DVD (with Fast compression) ... I keep my ever changing small amounts of data ... like Money 97, my Favorites list and a few other items backed up to a USB flash drive and larger data files I either put on various USB hard drives (500 GB and lower) or I burn the data to CDs / DVDs.

It now seems to finally make sense to me to pass on any future MS XP monthly updates, why possibly screw something up that right now is working just fine. I guess Windows 7 and 8 probably still need to have monthly updates, since they are both yet fairly new, that I don't know ... just an assumption on my part. I mainly use K-Meleon as my browser but will later today go get the latest Firefox Portable download. I was using that last year into 2013 and liked that version. K-Meleon doesn't work 100% for all web pages but seems to work OK most of the time.


Mozilla Firefox, Portable Edition

http://portableapps....irefox_portable

there's also this version there, which is what I was using early this year ... the ESR version.

Mozilla Firefox ESR, Portable Edition

http://portableapps....ox-portable-esr

Again thanks for the information ... like a good discussion and reading informative posts. I consider myself still in the "learning mode" even though I got my first computer in 1998, a Windows 95 setup.

...

Edited by duffy98, 21 April 2013 - 07:02 AM.





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