[FlippX]

Hello,
I recently started textbased programming, C(/C++) to be more precisely.., and in short, I am looking for free IDEs that (still) work with w98+kex(+...). Could anyone give me a clue?!

If you, the reader, are programming, no matter in what language, what IDE do you use??
I searched the whole internet, ...honestly... , for IDE, but actually for "modern Windows". What a mass! WHAT A MASS of software.. I'm a little overwhelmed since I just started...
Now the aspect of not having the big choice on w98, for me definitifely is an advatage... otherways I'd always question to use the best IDE at that moment..
But at least I found one or two pieces of software that should work on (even original!) w98:
-Dev-C++ (the old version from 2005*) *..if I remember correctly..
-Open Watcom (from 2010)

...and that's it?? Will it be a good idea to use "non-w98"-IDEs??
..and what's the better one, and why?

I did not try anything on the w98-machine, since I fear to ruin that system with the wrong IDE...if that's possible at all..?!

And to spread this thread just a little over the whole windows-area, I'd like to know, what is your favorite IDE in general?? -Or no IDE at all, just a "programmers"-texteditor?! ..but again, I'm just getting started, and doing it as an hobby..
What's about eg. "Codeblocks", or "PellesC", or better one of the million others??

[loblo]

Well there aren't millions of free C/C++ IDEs out there and I think you've rounded up the suspects pretty well.

AFAIK installing any of those won't do any damage to your system so I guess it's a matter of trying and see what works and what doesn't by trying to compile simple "hello world" programs.

There is also Lazarus but that's Pascal, not C++.

[MagicAndre1981]

the old Visual C++ 6 works in Win98.

[jumper]

thefreecountry.com lists these IDE's and C/C++ compilers to go with them:

Free C/C++ Compilers and Interpreters

Microsoft Visual Studio 2012 Express New
Microsoft Visual C++ 2010 Express
Open Source Watcom / OpenWatcom C/C++ Compiler
Digital Mars C/C++ Compiler (Symantec C++ Replacement)
Bloodshed Dev-C++ C++ Compiler
Tiny C Compiler - Smallest Linux C Compiler
Portable Object Compiler
Mingw32 C & C++ Compilers
GNU C/C++ Compiler
Pelles C Compiler
CINT C and C++ Interpreter
LADSoft CC386 C Compiler
Cygwin Project (C & C++ Compilers)
LCC-Win32 C Compiler
Cyclone C

Free Programmer's Editors, Integrated Development Environment (IDE), ASCII Text Editors

Code::Blocks
Visual MinGW
RHIDE IDE for GNU based systems
POW Programmers Open Workbench

[jds]

I guess this topic sort of belongs in "Projects", since development tools are the starting point for most projects.

If you are starting from scratch, older versions of Delphi (version 5 for example, was available as a free download) are about as easy to develop GUI applications on, as you can get, and were certainly W9X compatible (D5 was the last version for W95, not sure which was the last version for W98). Incidentally, as I understand it, D2 was the only version that, without hacks, could be used for writing drivers.

Now, while I did manage to "get started" with Delphi 5 some time ago, I haven't been able to do likewise more recently with VC++4.2. At least VC++ versions 4.0 through 6.0 are W9X compatible. However, I read somewhere that version 6 had some internal identifier naming conflict issues, if perchance you might want to use it for writing drivers (hence why I installed 4.2 in preference to 6.0). Alas however, I've never figured out how to use this thing. It has no useful help and all attempts to find a "getting started" guide on the 'net have only directed me toward much more recent versions. (So if anyone knows where to find a newbie's guide to VC++4.X, I for one would appreciate it.)

Joe.

[bpalone]

An IDE is nice, but is not required. If you are just going to be writing Command Line apps for a while, then I would just find a decent ASCII text editor that you like and use it. Then compile from the command line as well. I started learning C with Power C and one other book back in the late 80's. It is still available here and the book that comes with it is worth the money they ask for it.

I also think you can still download an old version of Turbo C from here for free. Turbo C was my second compiler and I still like the old Borland products. In fact, the version they are offering has an IDE and is DOS based. (added last sentence here with the edit.)

If I were you, I would probably just drop to DOS and use a DOS text editor and compile from DOS. Then after you gain some more experience and want to mess with Windows programming, then I would look for something with more power. But, for now, you can learn most all the basics without adding the confusion of Windows into the mix.

Good luck and I hope you enjoy coding. It is a good skill set to have. Besides, we don't want to let a little bit of silicone and tin dictate to us how things are going to be done, now do we?

This post has been edited by bpalone: 21 March 2013 - 04:26 PM

[FlippX]

Hey, thank you all!

It's really hard for me to decide, and that's the case in general! So I already was happy to have taken C(C++) as a language... But that's only because I think most people are using it..and to just in case be able to program microcontrollers (is this possible with a different language?!). Actually I already downloaded "Lazarus", but only to have it around...
Is there an easy answer to the quenstion, about the need for all these languages, and all the compilers per language??? Especially since a PC's architecture more or less always is the same..!? ..So why eg. "VC6" instead of "Dev-C++"?!

"Visual C++ 6".. from 1998?! maybe that's really a little too ancient... and one doesn't seem to get it anywhere..

Jumper, just to get you right, non of the listed ones is for w98 (except open watcom, I guess)?!

Jds, that's the one I'm missing.. Delphi 5... If it was available for download, is it still somewhere?? This just leads to a more general quenstion: If a developer suddenly decides to refuse sharing his/her free software, what's about 3rd parties sharing copies of it??? - And if that's no problem, does anyone have such a copy..?!
Actually I even have a CD with Delphi5 on it around, but its foil has some bigger scratches...

It seems one has to register for Turbo C... And since I don't know what's the difference anyways, I'll just take another one...
I actually don't know what I'm doing, but I think I'll not go for DOS...since I occasionally will be programming for rather modern OSes as well...I hope...
Ultimatively (no, rather as a first bigger step), I'd like to write some socalled "externals" for the brilliant software "Pure Data". That will, on windows, result in a ".dll".

And one general question.. What is the biggest difference between all those compilers?? Or are they all the same, and if so are there some standards they are build after?? Or why don't I need a whole new manual per compiler?? ...obviously they are more or less the same (per language), otherways a texteditor would have problems highlighting etc...

[bpalone]

Quick short answer to differences in compilers:

Language Syntax will be the same.

Complier switches and options will be different.

One may offer some non-standard functions that the other doesn't.

There may be others, that someone else can jump in and correct/add.

[jumper]

> "Visual C++ 6".. from 1998?! maybe that's really a little too ancient... and one doesn't seem to get it anywhere..

VC6 is not too ancient--I use VC5 for all of my MSFN projects! Neither is free, however.


> Jumper, just to get you right, non[e] of the listed ones is for w98 (except open watcom, I guess)?!

It's just a list, but most of them should have a new or older version that will run on Win9x/ME (possibly with the help of KernelEx / SP3 / etc -- look for Win2K support).

[togermano]

If you use "Visual C++ 6" do you need to include the vb6 runtime?

[FlippX]

"..neither is free..." - Is it still possible to buy these old versions, at all????
Jumper, and why don't you use a rather up-to-date version?? ..why not at least version 6?!

Oh and if the syntax is all the same, and the language is already a little older.. why should one always use the most recent version?! The overall pc-architecture does not change, - there are only some hardware-standards introduced in the meantime maybe. Something like SSE4000, but most software seems to work just fine with SSE2, so...
One more question related to this: Will the software created with an older IDE be "upwards-compatible"?? Just in case I would want to use things I programmed on the old machine somewhere else, or give it to a friend...

If I use something with kex, would you tell if it's rather like "give it a try, and if it works it works" or like "it might work at first glance but there will be lots of unexpected weird things going on under the surface.."
So will it rather be clearly working or not at all?! I'd guess esp. with programming-software it's not a good idea to use a half-working software..

[dencorso]

Look and you'll find: this seems reasonable. And if you're in the US, there's also this. Of course, that's just my 2¢.

[jds]

FlippX, on 22 March 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

Jds, that's the one I'm missing.. Delphi 5... If it was available for download, is it still somewhere?? This just leads to a more general quenstion: If a developer suddenly decides to refuse sharing his/her free software, what's about 3rd parties sharing copies of it??? - And if that's no problem, does anyone have such a copy..?!
Actually I even have a CD with Delphi5 on it around, but its foil has some bigger scratches...

I recall at the time that D5 was free to download, but you weren't allowed to redistribute it. I vaguely recall something similar for D6 and perhaps D7. That policy must have changed later, as Turbo Explorer (based on Delphi 2006) was openly available from a number of mirror sites, such as : http://turboexplorer.com/downloads

As you can see from the above link, the policy has changed yet again (probably with the change of ownership) and all that's available (which won't be W98 compatible, I'm sure) is a limited-time trial of some version called XE3.

So you might have some luck if you search hard enough to find some forgotten mirror sites with a compatible version of Delphi. Presumably if that Turbo Explorer free edition license allowed redistribution, that may still be valid and the more restrictive licenses may only apply to their respective versions. In other words, I don't think you can retrospectively change the license conditions for a product after it's been received/accepted with such conditions.

As for the compatibility of Turbo Explorer, if you manage to find it, it's specified as supported for W2000 and above. However, D5 was specified as supported for W98 and above, yet was compatible with W95, so who knows, especially as you have KernelEx to help you.

Joe.

PS. This 2008 blog gives a good summary of the release history of Turbo Pascal (BTW, I have an original copy of PolyData COMPAS - on hard-sectored CP/M floppies!) and Delphi : http://blogs.embarca...008/11/17/39142

This post has been edited by jds: 26 March 2013 - 02:40 AM

[loblo]

Free versions of Delphi have been distributed on computer magazines cover CDs in the UK (PCPlus and perhaps others). You may find those CDs on eBay, car boot sales, second hand shops, etc... Most recent versions such 6 and 7 required to email Delphi to get a free serial number in order to be able to use them, something that can't be done anymore. Earlier versions such as 2 and 3 didn't require any serial if I recall correctly. Unsure about version 4 and 5.

[jaclaz]

TurboPascal 5.5:
http://web.archive.o...0,20803,00.html
A few more "ancient" versions:
http://web.archive.o...land.com/museum

Lazarus:
http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/


jaclaz

This post has been edited by jaclaz: 26 March 2013 - 09:26 AM

[jds]

loblo, on 26 March 2013 - 05:26 AM, said:

Free versions of Delphi have been distributed on computer magazines cover CDs in the UK (PCPlus and perhaps others). You may find those CDs on eBay, car boot sales, second hand shops, etc... Most recent versions such 6 and 7 required to email Delphi to get a free serial number in order to be able to use them, something that can't be done anymore.

Not sure, but this may be how you get your registration code for D6 and later : http://support.codegear.com/forms/

Joe.