GaryMX

Microsoft Backup and file permissions

32 posts in this topic

I have been having problems with Microsoft Backup on Windows 2000 since running the UURollup update installation:

Here is the sequence of events (I have two distinct hard drives on my W2K computer; drive C main boot, drive D alternate boot:) First, I image copied Drive C to my USB hard drive (original W2K install SP4 with all M$ updates) using Drive Image (had to boot into XP using a Boot CD to do it) then, I "restored" the C drive image on top of D drive, which did not have a fully functional W2K install. I made drive D bootable, switched the boot selection to use D as default. I installed UURollupv10d on drive D. I then tested the install extensively for a month (Feb 7 - March 7.) All of my regular functions necessary for my business worked, all CAD/CAM software, and especially, my Internet browser was now up to date!! By March 7th, I felt confident to go back to Drive C and install UURollup there (I had the original image saved, so I wasn't worried.)

I changed the boot order back to C drive, by default, then installed all of the updates in the order that they were to be installed, with UURollupv10d being the last one. Everything worked smoothly. But, just as it was on D drive -- I could no longer run Microsoft Backup automatically (Task Scheduler.) If I ran it manually, I got the following error in the log: "You do not have permission to access portions of [folder name.] Please see the owner or administrator to get permission." This error was generated for every folder that I specified to be backed up. The .BKF file that it created was unusable (couldn't restore from it.) It's puzzling how, as Administrator, I cannot backup my system properly using MS Backup. I have tried various changes, trying to run as a "backup user," granting permissions to "all" from the root of C: drive, checked file inheritance permissions, etc.

My only (weak) theory for the source of the problem would be that I "restored" C drive onto D drive while running in "XP mode" using the Boot CD (Drive Image won't run under Windows 2000.) Could the file permissions have been changed for the files on the hard drive then? Any ideas, anyone?

Edited by GaryMX
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Well, you could sue Hiren for providing some WAREZ :ph34r: that didn't work (or maybe - besides the use of a Warez release :realmad: - you additionally used an improper procedure/method :whistle: ).

Drive Image? :unsure:

You maybe mean DriveImage XML?

Or R-Drive Image?

However you must have somehow omitted to report at lest one step (changing the Disk Signature) otherwise you might have been (and maybe possibly still) using a "mixed-mode" setup, where your "system drive" (partition on second disk) gets D:\ drive letter BUT you are using *anything* that is "hardcoded" in Registry and all over the machine to C:\ from the C:\ drive, i.e. the partition on first disk.

jaclaz

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The simplest way I found to back up a drive is with XXCLONE version 2.0.0.4 works for 2000 and backward.

http://www.pixelab.com/

:thumbup

I used to get it from my visits to majorgeeks.com

http://www.majorgeeks.com/XXCLONE_d5534.html

Though now it says it is shareware, that is for 2.0.1.2 and later, 2.0.0.4 is still available as freeware,

I used it for years to backup during builds and most recently when I called it up (ver 2.0.0.4) and it

updated itself to 2.0.1.2 , still acts like the freeware version, hasn't asked to pay or for an activation

code. Most likely because I moved to XP SP3 and in near future W7.

Yup, previously stated that I gave up on 2000 when Adobe and Mozilla did :blushing:

Edit: though it doesn't say in the company F.A.Q. I recently moved 2000 pro from its' previous boot drive

[a 30GiB Kingston SSD,and yes boot times were improved,even in IDE mode] to a Maxtor of the same size,

for storage/backup/archive purposes using 2.0.0.4, so if you get that from the freeware page you should be alright.

On the other hand, if your UURollup or USP5.2 is good for you, give the latest a try and let the rest of us know.

If necessary, I can send the 2007 install package to anyone who needs it in an attachment.

PM me, though I'm not as frequent a visitor here as I used to be and only come back when the auto-notify sends me an

email. :hello:

Edited by Browncoat
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@jaclaz and @Browncoat, thank you for your replies. Regarding "changing disk signature," I guess I wasn't clear enough. If I had a "disk signature" problem, I would have "disk collision" issues (see the article here.) The drives are distinct and clearly recognizable when I run my disk management utility. The original computer was built to be bootable with both C and D drives, but was never implemented that way (in the BOOT.INI.) I changed the BOOT.INI in the root of C: drive to recognize both drives as bootable. However, D drive had an old copy of what was on "C" (from 2005, when the person who built the computer cloned C: drive to D:. When I first used the computer in 2007, I noticed some discrepancies between the two drives and deleted files from D. I had never intended to use it except to back up files from C: (using Microsoft Backup.) When I started having problems last year with the lack of support for Win2K (Firefox, flash, etc.) I found the original posting on ryanvm.net about UURollup. I decided to try it, but on another drive that didn't have my current install of W2K. I used DriveImage XML to backup C. I needed to get the computer into Windows XP to back up the files (there is no Volume Shadow Copy service in W2K.) I found the boot CD (which is not warez, by the way) and it created a "mini-XP environment" where I could back up my files to my USB disk drive. I have used DriveImage XML successfully to backup and restore PCs with absolutely no issue. So I felt confident to use it here. I backed up my original W2K installation on Drive C, then restored it to Drive D. I changed the BOOT.INI, as I said, restarted the computer and ran tomasz86's updates to W2K. They ran successfully, and I noticed no problems. I expected some weird things, since the %WINDIR% environment variable was now pointing to D, but perhaps some Registry entries needed drive C. It didn't matter. All of my software ran OK and I was able to update my browser to the latest version (which was important to me.) The only issue I had, as I had said in my first post, was that MSBackup (and another scheduled task, a Registry backup program,) didn't run at their scheduled times. So I manually ran one of them (the Registry backup) with no problem. MSBackup, however, had a problem with my "file permissions." That is the crux of my problem. I am now running W2K on drive C again (with the updates from UURollup,) so there shouldn't be any issues at all with the disk's MBR.

@Browncoat, thanks for the info on XXCLONE. What I really want to do, however, is not clone my disk (I can do that now,) but have MSBackup run daily, like it used to do, and backup any changes to my computer (a differential backup.)

Edited by GaryMX
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@Browncoat, thanks for the info on XXCLONE. What I really want to do, however, is not clone my disk (I can do that now,) but have MSBackup run daily, like it used to do, and backup any changes to my computer (a differential backup.)

& MSB is free, XXCLONE Pro does the same but with the free , you can still set /hyper switch on the advanced tab which leaves unchanged components alone.

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@jaclaz and @Browncoat, thank you for your replies. Regarding "changing disk signature," I guess I wasn't clear enough. If I had a "disk signature" problem, I would have "disk collision" issues (see the article here.) The drives are distinct and clearly recognizable when I run my disk management utility.

No :no: (not only "collisions"), which JFYI are normally automatically "solved" at boot time. (on XP/2003 and earlier, the article you cited is for Vista :ph34r: or later which use a slightly different boot approach),

The Disk Signature affects Drive letter assignments. :yes:

There are simple procedures to re-assign (within the OS on second disk) the SAME C:\ drive letter to the copy/clone.

Changing the drive letter of an installed 2K/XP OS is doable, but it requires a number of steps/modifications that are so many and so complex that it simply makes attempting it foolish as you have NO guarantee whatsoever to have fixed "everything".

As suspected :rolleyes: :

I changed the BOOT.INI, as I said, restarted the computer and ran tomasz86's updates to W2K. They ran successfully, and I noticed no problems. I expected some weird things, since the %WINDIR% environment variable was now pointing to D, but perhaps some Registry entries needed drive C. It didn't matter.

you managed to run that system in "mixed mode" with some (most of ) files used actually residing on "D:\" and some residing on "C:\".

This does matter and can cause ANY kind of issues.

Running a system in this "mixed mode" can additionally (and probably this is what happened/is happening) "corrupt" pemissions/links/Registry paths and what not, as the OS will try to "fix itself" some inconsistencies.

Of course you won't notice anything particular for most "basic" programs/operations, but as soon as you use a complex tool (like NTbackup) you will probably (actually it is what you just reported) hit a brick wall.

jaclaz

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@Browncoat, thanks for the info about the /hyper switch. I may try that if I can't get Macrium Reflect to work as I want ...

@jaclaz -- I am back to running W2K on drive C:. So this should not cause a problem. (Everything works OK except MS Backup.) When I run Disk Management (diskmgmt.msc,) I have "Disk 0 -- Healthy (System)" and "Disk 1" -- Healthy (Page File)", identified as "Drive C" (NTFS) and "Drive D" (NTFS). C and D are independent of each other; I never did a "System Restore" to Drive C:. I only applied the UURollup. I wouldn't want to have two "Drive Cs" anyway, even if I could. The BOOT.INI allows me to change which drive boots first; that is all I need. Drive D was just an experiment; I will probably reformat it and just use it as a backup drive and to store the image backup of Drive C, plus the page file for the OS.

Running in "mixed mode," as you say, on Drive D perhaps would cause the issues that you noted; however, that would only affect the Registry that is in the system folder of Drive D, not the one on Drive C. That would certainly not be behavior that I would expect.

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I was tired last night or I would have added an edit.

Once tomaz,wild bill and BWC get it perfected and as easy to add as USP5.1

I still plan to use 2000, its paid for, stable, does everything i want [except for that blasted

VC/VS 2010++ getting in the way] and doesn't require activation. Though i do like the XP

start menu over the plain classic. 'nuff said.

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@jaclaz -- I am back to running W2K on drive C:. So this should not cause a problem. (Everything works OK except MS Backup.)

Yes, I got that, but we don't know if anything like this:

Running a system in this "mixed mode" can additionally (and probably this is what happened/is happening) "corrupt" pemissions/links/Registry paths and what not, as the OS will try to "fix itself" some inconsistencies.

actually happened (and remained "sticky") :ph34r: .

Maybe there is a way to re-install the NTbackup :unsure: and/or to reset correctly the permissions.

Which specific permission error are you getting?

jaclaz

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@jaclaz -- This is the error, as I said at the beginning of this post: I get the following error in the MS Backup log file: "You do not have permission to access portions of [folder name.] Please see the owner or administrator to get permission." This error is generated for every folder that I specify to be backed up. And I am signed on as Administrator, with full file permissions!

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@jaclaz -- This is the error, as I said at the beginning of this post: I get the following error in the MS Backup log file: "You do not have permission to access portions of [folder name.] Please see the owner or administrator to get permission." This error is generated for every folder that I specify to be backed up. And I am signed on as Administrator, with full file permissions!

Yes, but can you check which are the contents of one of the folders that you have issues with permissions AND list the folder permissions AND ownership?

(few things are as tricky as permissions/ownership on NTFS :ph34r: )

Other approaches/tests:

  1. If you create a new folder and put in it a single file and you try to backup just that folder, what happens?
  2. Try creating a new user, with Administrator privileges and try again the same test above when logged in as the "new Admin".
  3. If your "D:\" drive is now (temporarily) ready for "sacrifice", try re-partitioning it with a smallish FAT16 pr FAT32 partition and do the same test (FAT has no permission/ownership attributes).
    .

If there is NOT *somehow* a general issue with NTbackup you should have no error, if you have the same error, that should mean that the error is a "false" one

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz
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@jaclaz -- I'm giving up on MSBackup. I'll find another product to do differential backups. Besides, I've got DriveImage XML to just image the whole drive and save it. I'm not going to switch an NTFS drive to FAT32.

PS: Creating the new file folder / file and backing it up with MSB generated the same "you don't have permission" error. Strange, since I created it! :lol:

Edited by GaryMX
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Besides, I've got DriveImage XML to just image the whole drive and save it. I'm not going to switch an NTFS drive to FAT32.

Remember that DriveIMageXML images drives and NOT whole disks. (just to disambiguate between "whole drive" and "whole disk drive"), there is a lot of confusion on the terms DriveIMageXML deals with the *whatever* that gets a drive letter.

See:

http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=22563

jaclaz

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I guess you must really think that I'm a "newbie." :lol: I realize that it only backs up a partition on that hard disk drive. My business PC has two hard disk drives (C & D,) and on each of them there is a primary partition used for my data and a smaller one (a few MB) that must be used either for a "Dell system recovery disk" or other reasons. I certainly wouldn't want to back up that. In DriveImage, it shows you what drive/partition you have selected for backup or recovery, with its size. My home PC has one main drive (C:) and a Dell recovery partition. "multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS" is what is in my BOOT.INI, so it is running on partition 2 of my drive. My old Win Me PC has three drives with several partitions in each.

OK -- I am not commenting any more on this topic; as far as I'm concerned, MSBackup is not worth using!

Edited by GaryMX
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I guess you must really think that I'm a "newbie." :lol:

Let's say you didn't do much to convey the idea that you are instead a very expert PC user. :unsure:

For the record, if you were such an expert, you would have known that XXCLONE (notwithstanding it's name) is actually a tool capable of doing incremental backups. :whistle:

On the other hand if you were a real "newbie", maybe you might have listened to Browncoat's suggestion and at least have checked what XXCLONE can do.

I presume you must be "catalogued" as "expert, but not enough" or as "less expert than what you think" :ph34r: .

OK -- I am not commenting any more on this topic; as far as I'm concerned, MSBackup is not worth using!

Sure :), but it sounds a lot like :ph34r: :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fox_and_the_Grapes

jaclaz

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