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Windows Protection Error

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#1
Tommy

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I have another problem that is baffling me with Windows 98. I have the latest USP3 installed on it along with KernelEx 4.5.2, whether it matters, I'm not sure.

Anyway, board specs are here to make things a little easier: http://www.gigabyte....spx?pid=1670#sp

Everything is onboard except for the new PNY nVidia GeForce 6200 AGP 256MB card I just added a few days ago, but the problem existed even before that.

It's also running an AMD Athlon XP 2500+ (1.8GHz) CPU and I have 1GB of RAM in it (2x512MB sticks).

When I go to shut the system down via shutdown, it never fully shuts down but instead it comes up saying "Windows Protection Error. You will need to restart your computer...Press any key to continue..."

Doing so will result in a never ending beep from the motherboard until you shut it off or soft restart it. This would happen even during a restart and I linked it to the sound manager from the onboard AC'97 sound adapter. It was the manager that caused the problem so I disabled it from even starting up and so now I can restart with no problems, but actually shutting it down completely is when I have the issue again.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Daily running Windows 2000 Pro SP4 and Windows 98 Second Edition

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#2
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Is there a USB device connected when you shutdown? That was the most common thing I remember preventing Win9x shutdowns.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#3
Tommy

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Nope, no USB connections in use here. I have a standard PS/2 Keyboard and mouse. The only other things I have plugged in are my 32" Toshiba LCD TV and connection for sound along with my network cable. I think those are the only things I have plugged into the back of it.

I can also vouch that this happens via Windows 98 SE Gold and USP3, neither version matters.

Edited by Tommy, 08 April 2013 - 02:49 PM.

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#4
dencorso

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I bet on the video driver... see the threads pointed to by my summary thread pointed to in the important stickified threads sticky index.

#5
farfigs11

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The only time I get this is when I overclock my Athlon xp cpu. Maybe you can try running the cpu slower just to see if it's cpu related.

#6
Tommy

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The only time I get this is when I overclock my Athlon xp cpu. Maybe you can try running the cpu slower just to see if it's cpu related.


As far as I know, it's just running at stock speed, but I'll go into the BIOS as I think there's a way to underclock it, I think. As I said in my one thread, the BIOS on this machine is extremely limited in options. But I bought a new Gigabyte board for this computer, unfortunately I don't think I can use 98 as my main OS, just my secondary. Also, I dunno if this has anything to do with it or not but I have Skype 3.5 installed on it (3.8 doesn't work with voice for some reason like Kernelex says it can) but when I go to shutdown the system, if I don't close Skype completely first, I'll get a few illegal operations errors from it before it closes out and shuts down.

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#7
CharlotteTheHarlot

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Make some backups of SYSTEM.DAT and USER.DAT while you still can. I would also grab all SYSTEM.INI and WIN.INI files as well.

Also, search the HDD for SYSTEM.* and USER.* and WIN.* ( these will catch all the previous mentioned files ) to locate any others that might exist. And save any files named RB*.cab.

This is just in case you have crossed into registry size or corruption territory ( see here ).

Having a folder full of registry and related files might allow you to determine a setting that has changed or possibly an installed program that increased the size too large.

... Let him who hath understanding reckon the Number Of The Beast ...


#8
Tommy

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I'm looking into this now, but I really don't have much on the computer. I think I just reinstalled Windows 3 days ago and really don't have much installed. I think the stuff I have installed is Skype, MS Office 2000, The Weakest Link (game), Revolutions Pack 9, Windows Media Player, USP3, FireFox 3.6, and I think that's about it outside the normal Windows 98 defaults.

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#9
dencorso

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Wait a sec! :blink:
Are you *p*o*s*i*t*i*v*e* the problem existed before adding the nVidia Card?
You sure?
And, if so, why didn't you post about it right away, instead of going on with the install? It was blotched already!

Do reply asap. Until then, put on hold everything I said below this line, OK? Issue may be due to a totally different cause, let's see.

==================================================================================

Driver, I bet square on the video driver! :whistle:

Perra, do try the nVidia drivers 77.72. But don't remove nVidia drivers with add/remove or unistall. Do it using the great freeware Driver Cleaner Pro Version 1.5 (*NOT* Driver Cleaner .NET !!!). The Add/Remove applet or nVidia's own uninstallers don't do quite a perfect job in removing previous nVidia drivers, only Driver Cleaner Pro is able to remove them completely.

Has NetFramework anything to do with the graphics

None whatsoever, at least directly. Myself, I don't see how it'd be of any help. Try the 77.72. Multibooter says it's the latest bug-free driver for 9x/ME. And he uses it with a nVIDIA 7800 GS OC (256 MiB; AGP 8x). If you have time, read the full NVidia drivers 82.69, suddenly!. I'm sure you'll find it most instructive.

The 81.98 is also worth a try. Neither it nor the 77.72 support nVidia GeForce 6xxx, but that's solvable by trivially editing the .inf
Just by comparing the .inf of either with that from the unnoficial 82.69 will provide you the necessary strings to add.
Find them here or here.

#10
Tommy

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I'll have to check into what driver version is actually installed. I did try the unofficial drivers at one point but ended up reverting back because my display stopped working when I'd switch it to anything higher than 16 color. It's a Toshiba TV but it has a VGA input on it so that's how I use the computer. I believe the onboard graphics was an S3 of some sort but I'll have to look to be absolutely sure. Maybe I'm remembering wrong on when this exact problem began.

And, if so, why didn't you post about it right away, instead of going on with the install? It was blotched already!


What exactly do you mean by this, bud? Everything installs fine and the only time I ever see this error is when I shutdown the system. The first install I had the S3 onboard active and then I bought this card and threw it in and installed the drivers, which in fact I think was the December 2005 drivers since I had the internet on the computer, I just downloaded those ones so I think at once time I had the latest official nvidia drivers installed and I still had the problem. But maybe you're right on the video drivers, I don't know. But clarify on what you mean by the quoted text and I will answer asap.

And if the install gets botched, it's no great big deal to me, it's only a secondary computer so whatever happens, happens. But just to clarify, the unofficial drivers would make my TV report an unsupported video mode error when I'd set the display up past 16 colors (only tried 16-bit, didn't try 256 though).

I hope this all makes sense, sometimes I type as I remember things. ;)

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#11
dencorso

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I meant no disrespect, of course. But blotched it was, already. Notice, please, I didn't say "botched", nor did I mean to.
To me, once something isn't quite right (even if I see it just when I shut down) I stop to find out why.
By doing so, my installs take much longer. But I get to systems that last.
The last time I actually installed Win 98SE on my main machine was 2001-11-13 11:48 PM, and it's still alive and kicking!

Of course I use an image library to move back and forth on time when installing and /or debugging most issues in it.

But that's beside the point, since you tell us yours is a pretty recent install.
And your board uses a KM400 chipset. Mine is a KT600, so it's just the next generation (but a KT has no onboard video, while a KM has a VIA, not S3, inside).
OK, on the basis of your reply, I change my bet. What you need to do is to remove altogether the ACPI (and most of the APM, too).

#12
submix8c

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...and MINE was a KM400 and had NO SUCH problems! My daughter now owns it with XP on it. If you look back at the "Greater than 1gb RAM" topic I specified it there. ;)

Your problem HAS to be the Video since I was using an nVidia MX400 and drivers were available. AFAICR, I used the "unofficial" one from the "; Tweaked Unofficial NVIDIA Display Driver 82.69 for Windows 98/ME / ; hXXp://www.mdgx.com/files/NV8269.TXT".

On-Board is definitely KM400 but "kind of" an S3. Driver specifically states

PCI\VEN_1106&DEV_7205
"VIA/S3G KM400"

And the GeForce-6200 is officially supported by nVidia in the v81.98 Forceware.

As far as the Toshiba TV, what kind of X-by-Y (screen size) are you trying to use? After a certain BIG size, you can NOT change above 16-colors. I'd say there's something "odd" about using your TV as a monitor in conjunction with that card.

More info on "aspect ratio" with your setup here -
http://forums.whirlp...archive/1570171

BTW, did you install the last working Windows98 DirectX?

Edited by submix8c, 11 April 2013 - 09:41 AM.

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#13
dencorso

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Welcome onboard, submix8c! :thumbup


And, yes, of course your board (GA-7VM400M-RZ) is much nearer his in hardware. I'm confident we'll be able to find out what's wrong here, with your help.
Tommy's GA-7VM400M is a KM400 board using a VIA 8235 southbridge. It should be able to go up to 2 GiB RAM, BTW.

My, board, on the other hand, is an A7V600-X, which uses a KT600 with a VIA 8237A southbridge, which currently has 3 2 GiB RAM, the maximum it can take.
And, as you can see in the list, I still use the: "Video card: MSI MS-8817 V1 nVidia GeForce2 MX400 PRO32S (32 MiB; AGP 4x)"

Removing ACPI is reversible, despite what may appear, so I do think It's a good proceure to follow, at this point, and relatively fast, although the description of it sure is long-winded. And since Tommy confirmed the issue already existed before the nVidia card was added, I consider it excluded as the putative source for the "Windows Protection Error".

#14
submix8c

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I know that a properly set up 98SE on that MoBo will in fact run without problem with a Standard VGA attached WITH all functions including ACPI. Be aware that a number of "unofficial" files and setting may be needed.

I'm betting on an improper installation (first) in conjunction with the TV (second). I googled this for some info on the problematic connection.
lcd tv nvidia vga -dvi -s-video
knowing that it could be "defined" further, but the link I gave should give a "clue" to a proper VGA->LCD-TV setup. You should REALLY try connecting a "real" monitor and getting that up-and-running first to eliminate the TV as a problem as it COULD be causing a "hang" (see given link). In addition, do it using the On-Board to start with THEN add the Card using the "official" drivers. And YES, the Drivers are available for that board for Win9x (probably EXACTLY the same as mine).

edit - DOH!!! Not from Gigabyte - from ViaArena. ;)

edit2 - DOH!!! again! Do NOT choose an OS! leave it on "choose" then select "show all" to the right! They're all there! It confused me because the Drivers for my "old" board didn't show either until I did that. :thumbup
http://www.gigabyte....spx?pid=1670#dl

edit3 (from the Google) - a hint on what the problem might be (different VidCard/TV) -
https://forums.gefor...h-nvidia-cards/
...and you can add "toshiba" to the search. What model IS the TV, anyway? Googling on just "toshiba 32 lcd" shows several variations of HDTV/pixels. and another link also indicates that the EDID is causing a problem with TV hooked up (see prev. link).

Edited by submix8c, 11 April 2013 - 10:39 AM.

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#15
dencorso

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Let's wait for Tommy's reply. But if he'll be going to ViArena, he should also grab the Via Hyperion v. 4.56v chipset driverset (the Hyperion aka "4x1"), which is much better than any later version, for the via Kxx00 chipsets.

#16
submix8c

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Agreed on both counts...

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#17
Tommy

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Hey guys, thanks for all the replies! I'm starting to think it's the video driver myself. I tried following some of the things mentioned for running 98SE with more than 512MBs of RAM and disabling ACPI devices. Of course I had a few problems understanding what to do with a few things and so anything that was related to ACPI, I just removed from device manager all together. Since I never did this, I didn't know what to expect. Doing this took me down to absolute barebone drivers and so when I started back up, it started readding drivers back into the database. It was getting really late before I actually finished so the standard vga adapter driver is still listed as my card instead of the nvidia and surprisingly, it shutdown without a hitch.

As for my TV, I can use the widescreen 1368x786 aspect ratio (not sure if the first number is correct but it's the max resolution my TV will support). I was extremely surprised with this but with the official December 2005 drivers, I can max out the settings with no problems, but I still have the Windows Protection Error problem. But it seemed the utility for the onboard Realtek AC'97 caused part of the problem. I don't know if it was a sound manager that loaded up at startup or what it was but disabling it via msconfig, I was at least able to start restarting to the computer with no issues since even restarting had problems at first. Now I'm just down to the problem with shutting down completely and I do believe shutting down directly from safe mode works just fine as well.

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#18
dencorso

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:wacko:

#19
Tommy

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That's about as confused as I feel with this particular subject. I used to use Windows 98 a lot back in the early to mid 2000s as my main operating environment and never ran into something like this. But then again, all of my processors were always Intel, not AMD so this is the first time I'm actually seeing how AMD plays with Windows 98. I've also always used nvidia cards as well and never had this problem with them.

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#20
submix8c

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Yeah, me :wacko: too!

* - REMOVE the nVidia Card
1 - Clean Install 98SE (ACPI Enabled SHOULD WORK)
2 - 1 GB RAM shouldn't have been a problem BUT if it does, THEN change according to the "Greater than 1gb" topic. The subject matter is Not "Greater than 512mb" and that "information" is in error! The MAX is 1024mb/1gb!
3 - NOW install the VIA Hyperion Chipset Drivers Dencorso linked you too
4 - NOW install the OTHER files from the Gigabyte link. ALL of them (except VIA Hyperion) applicable to 98SE! USUALLY the Video one FIRST after the Chipset.
* - INSERT the nVidia Card
5 - NOW install the nVidia Driver!

The Via Hyperion is REQUIRED to be the FIRST drivers installed - in ANY Install scenario! This would even apply for ANY Chipset (even Intel or AMD or nVidia or "whoever"). The CHIPSET drivers are ALWAYS first!

AGP Aperture Size in the BIOS has given me problems WHEN GREATER THAN 256MB!

You should REALLY tell us EXACTLY (blow by blow) the steps you used AND for each individual step WHAT changes you MAY have made and HOW you made them using WHAT "unofficial" files (whatever) you may have used.

You will PROBABLY need all of the Updates/Hotfixes for 98SE. There's an Unofficial Service Pack AND an AutoPatcher. I used a different approach using AutoPatcher files and Integrating them (a RunOnce method). Choose your poison but CHOOSE! This COULD be done AFTER the "base procedure" has been confirmed fully functional. In addition there IS a List Of Hotfixes available (see the "Stickified Topics" Topic for the link).

We're kind of at a loss and "stabbing in the dark" here. Noting you did NOT say anything about ANY of the Drivers and what order, etc.

BTW, I've been using AMD MoBo's for a while now. The OLDER ones (like yours) are MUCH better (IMHO) than the Intel. Seriously, my old Mobo was nearly identical to yours and the only MAJOR difference was I used a normal VGA.

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#21
Tommy

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Alrighty, I basically tried what you said in that order submix8c and I'm still having the same issues. Maybe the TV itself is having some issues with the computer and it is causing it to do that since everything in safe mode is standard where in normal mode, drivers are in effect. It's hard to say I guess but I guess I can live with this. It seems to run better following your instructions though so I'll probably just live with it doing this.

As for the updates, I have PROBLEMCHYLD's latest unofficial service pack 3 that I installed first and then I installed KernelEx 4.5.2 and that's pretty much it in the line of updates.

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#22
submix8c

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It's (as I said) the TV... You apparently don't have a "real" VGA to test with? AGAIN, there are two things involved here - "EDID" and the TV Settings (in the actual TV "Setup" screens - NOT the PC!) - go back and look at the links I provided in reference to a TV hooked up.

AGAIN, I use(d) REAL SVGA Monitors (the BIG BULKY Picture Tube type)... And there IS a Setting in the BIOS to tell WHICH one (OnBoard or Add-In) to look for FIRST! Swap them...

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#23
Tommy

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I can test it out on a real VGA, I'd just have to take it downstairs to my workshop though. I will do that and report back here what happens.

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